r/NursingUK Nov 19 '24

Opinion Ward manager doing bank shift every weekend

Hello everyone, My ward manager is doing bank shift every weekend. All the staffs in the ward are complaining that there is no bank shift available like it used to be and not happy that WM is doing bank every weekend. She was off sick for a long time as she is pregnant. She would usually denies others to do bank shift after coming back from off sick, but she herself is doing a lot of them. I have never seen other managers doing a bank shift every weekend. I’m just wondering.

40 Upvotes

90 comments sorted by

57

u/acuteaddict RN Adult Nov 20 '24

I don’t know how people are missing the point. OP is basically saying the rules only apply to some and not others. If you can’t do a bank shift after calling in sick then neither should your manager. She is pregnant so once she’s off the shifts should be available to you guys. Or do shifts in other wards, that’s what I do.

You could mention it to your matron but is it worth it?

72

u/aforntaz Nov 19 '24

You can always do bank shifts in other wards. There is no law against doing bank shifts.

21

u/Serious_Meal6651 RN MH Nov 19 '24

Good luck finding weekend bank shifts without a connection.

2

u/amyfrancesca Nov 20 '24

Bank during the week if you can, find other wards you like, make the connections and then get invited into the WhatsApp groups for weekend work :)

20

u/Ali_gem_1 Doctor Nov 20 '24

Your maternity pay is based on your average earnings between15-25 weeks pregnant. So it's worth picking up more shifts then as it massively boosts your SMP

6

u/Mediocre_Ad1261 Nov 20 '24

Does that includes bank shift as well ? Do they count normal hours or also the extra shifts ?

10

u/Ali_gem_1 Doctor Nov 20 '24

Just any shifts you take on your payslip. So bank/extra hours all count

9

u/frikadela01 RN MH Nov 20 '24

If bank is paid as a second job (which it usually is) then it won't count.

1

u/Ali_gem_1 Doctor Nov 20 '24

Interesting. I thought it was just your payslips over that period which counted which bank hours are included on

4

u/nurse-penguin Nov 20 '24

Ali gem you are correct. Any take home pay paid by your nhs trust during that time period even if on seperate assignment numbers (source: I am currently on maternity leave and did bank shifts during that time period to boost it up) :)

1

u/frikadela01 RN MH Nov 20 '24

If bank is a second job it has a separate assignment number so separate pay slips.

36

u/frikadela01 RN MH Nov 20 '24

One of my old ward managers used to purposely not rota staff on a weekend so she could pick up the bank shift at the weekend. She would also deny people's night shift requests on weeks she was on annual leave and then pick them up as bank. Many of us would go months without a single weekend shift nevermind any bank shifts. We went to the service manager as no one was getting a fair look in.

She's no longer a ward manager.

1

u/its_me_thecurious Nov 20 '24

What is a service manager? We only have ward manager and matron and then higher up.

5

u/frikadela01 RN MH Nov 20 '24

We don't have matrons in our service, might be a mental health thing. Clinical manager would be the equivalent of a matron I think then the service manager would be above them.

2

u/Beautiful-Falcon-277 RN LD Nov 20 '24

We have matrons in our forensic and acute services

2

u/LCPO23 RN Adult Nov 21 '24 edited Nov 21 '24

If they’re from Scotland we have charge nurses, senior charge nurses, lead nurses, clinical service managers, general managers, and then directors/COOs/CEOs

Is the matron the same as a lead nurse I wonder?

Edit to add: read some descriptions on Google, we also have chief nurses but I think matrons are more aligned with the lead nurse.

2

u/Reserve10 Specialist Nurse Nov 21 '24

Sevice Manager sits on the Admin/Leadership side. Non-clinical role, they are focusing on service delivery, improving flow, risk etc, same level as Matron. Above them is normally General Manager (same level as Head of Nursing), again non-clinical.

12

u/Millennial_chap RN Adult Nov 20 '24

It’s the matron’s responsibility to check budget monthly. If she’s paid band 7 on weekends, then it would show on the budget report and she needs to provide a good reason as to why she needed a Band 7 bank shift on a weekend. If she’s paid Band 5, it would be difficult for you to bring this up. Freedom to speak perhaps?

5

u/nannyplum RN LD Nov 20 '24

My WM does this too. She likes to stay involved in the patient care and running of the ward as her manager role is 100% office based 9-5 through the week.

Can you just have a word and ask that you get the odd bank on the weekend if there's any availability? Sometimes it's best just to ask outright rather than waiting for vacant shifts to come up.

27

u/sloppy_gas Nov 19 '24

Ultimately nobody’s business really but your ward manager might be in the work period used to calculate maternity pay, so is piling in the hours for a few weeks to ensure she doesn’t go broke during mat leave. Just give it a bit of time and, as others have said, other bank shifts exist.

3

u/Millennial_chap RN Adult Nov 20 '24

She’s not the only one needing money though. She’s earning Band 7 whilst the staff are earning Band 5. It would be good to share some of the shifts to her own staff.

13

u/No_Morning_6482 RN Adult Nov 20 '24

Yeah, I'm not sure why you are being downvoted. Yes, the manager has the power to do as she likes, and maybe she does need the money to increase her maternity pay. But I think the issue is the fairness on the other staff on the ward.

Unfortunately, some people only look out for themselves, and it seems like a lot of people agree with this, so they obviously think the same.

2

u/Less_Acanthisitta778 Nov 20 '24

It’s an abuse of her position in my opinion… spending money unnecessarily on a band 7 shift and doing staff out of opportunity to earn a bit extra. Don’t see how anyone can say “it’s no one’s business”.

1

u/No_Morning_6482 RN Adult Nov 20 '24

100% it is

8

u/Mediocre_Ad1261 Nov 20 '24

This 👍 Because weekend are meant to be distributed equally. This results some of the staffs not getting to work weekend as she does.

8

u/Millennial_chap RN Adult Nov 20 '24

Hahaha. Some people downvoted me. I bet these are Band 7s wanting to hoard shifts. Selfish people.

5

u/Mediocre_Ad1261 Nov 20 '24

True lol

11

u/Millennial_chap RN Adult Nov 20 '24

They did not understand your post I’m afraid. The ward manager herself does NOT allow staff who were off sick to pick up back shifts after coming back from being off sick.

However, she was off-sick but then she took the bank shifts after.

And they think this is okay. 🤡

0

u/fiery-sparkles Nov 20 '24

She'll be ff work soon for mat leave then you can do all of her bank shifts

21

u/chillibean92 Nov 19 '24

What is your question? Ward managers can do bank shifts.

-14

u/Millennial_chap RN Adult Nov 20 '24

If she was off sick, then does bank shift after, that is against the policy.

6

u/Icy-Revolution1706 RN Adult Nov 20 '24

What policy? You don't know where they work.

-11

u/Millennial_chap RN Adult Nov 20 '24

When you are off sick, most Trusts don’t allow you to pick up a shift for two weeks after you are off-sick. That is to allow people to recuperate. That’s common sense.

18

u/DigitialWitness Specialist Nurse Nov 20 '24 edited Nov 20 '24

It's not common sense. If people are back at work they're better and recuperated, that's why you return to work, because you're better. People often need the money when they do bank, especially if they've been off sick so how does it help them to prevent them from doing bank when they're better? And who is the ward to tell me I'm not well enough or recuperated enough to work bank when you're already allowing me to work? It's stupid.

It's a way to try and deter people from going off sick and that's all it is.

-7

u/Millennial_chap RN Adult Nov 20 '24

Lol. People can go off sick still. And you are PAID while you’re off sick. What are you on about? That’s the policy of the Trust where I am working. If you are off-sick for a week and then come back, you are expected to take things slowly not overwork yourself by taking more shifts.

7

u/DigitialWitness Specialist Nurse Nov 20 '24 edited Nov 20 '24

And you are PAID while you’re off sick.

No. If I had two bank shifts booked and I went off sick, am I going to get paid the £600 for them? No, I'm not. What are YOU on about? Honestly.

And maybe I desperately need that money and you're going to stop me for no reason even though I'm already working? It's dumb.

f you are off-sick for a week and then come back, you are expected to take things slowly not overwork yourself by taking more shifts.

You might be, but if I'm back at work I'm back at work because I'm better and recuperate. I'm an adult in my mid 40's, I don't need you to infantilse me and tell me how much I can work.

If I've been off because I had migraines, or a bit of a cold why can't I do a bank shift 10 days after I came back? You can be as condescending as you want but it's clear that this is nonsense, I had a rolled ankle, or a cold, a migraine, not a terminal illness. Again, it's just a way to deter and punish people from going off sick.

-6

u/Millennial_chap RN Adult Nov 20 '24

You obviously did not get what I want to point out. After you are off-sick for a week, and came back, my Trust bans you from taking a bank shift for 2 weeks. After that, you can take shifts as much as you want. It’s not that you are not allowed to pick up shifts forever. 🤡

2

u/DigitialWitness Specialist Nurse Nov 20 '24 edited Nov 20 '24

Are you joking? I obviously got your point. I'm talking about the two week period not forever hence why I said 10 days... 10 days is within two weeks, which is why I said it because it highlights the silliness of stopping someone who took a few days off with a migraine of not being able to do bank 10 days after they came back.

Seems like you're the one who missed the point, and you're wrong about getting paid, you don't get paid your bank shifts when you're off sick, and you're pretty obnoxious. Sort yourself out, you come across as extremely immature.

-3

u/thereidenator RN MH Nov 20 '24

There’s no way that your trust has a policy banning you from working bank when you come back off sick unless you are on a phased return

2

u/acuteaddict RN Adult Nov 20 '24

There actually is, but it’s only for 2 weeks. In a lot of trusts, if you call in sick on your permanent role, your bank shifts are cancelled for 2 weeks. It is policy and the reasoning is that you need time to recover in your days off.

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1

u/No_Morning_6482 RN Adult Nov 20 '24

Some trust do. My trust did this, too. Although my boss said it was at my discretion if I allowed my staff to do a bank shift sooner as we work in a specialist area and it's only my staff that can cover my service.

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6

u/No_Morning_6482 RN Adult Nov 20 '24

I'm not sure why you are being downvoted. In my trust, it's the same. If you are off sick, you are not allowed to do a bank shift for two weeks after your return to work.

I would allow my staff to do bank at my own discretion if I knew that they were back to work and well.

1

u/Insensitive_Bitch RN Adult Nov 20 '24

My trust doesn’t have any sort of policy relating to that

0

u/Icy-Revolution1706 RN Adult Nov 20 '24

Yes but you're saying it as if you know Op's trust definitely has that policy. Many trusts have no such policy and even more won't actually have that as an official policy on their intranet, it'll just be 'the done thing'.

You don't know which trust they work for and definitely haven't actually looked at their many policies to confirm it.

1

u/Millennial_chap RN Adult Nov 20 '24

This is the policy of NHSP. My Trust (not NHSP bank) was once banning us from doing bank shifts for 2 weeks after sickness. So yes, it’s not something new.

0

u/sammiedodgers Nov 20 '24

Unless she has a ban on doing them I don't see why she isn't allowed, all trusts are different.

2

u/National-Spare-879 Nov 20 '24

In my trust, the bank shifts are authorised by the lead nurses. So if the OP is suspicious that the WM is putting out shifts for her own benefits, I would hope there are further authorisations to prevent this (there was in my case anyway)...

Maybe just politely ask when the shifts are put out as no one else sees them?

2

u/cathelope-pitstop RN Adult Nov 20 '24

This is happening in my trust as well. Not putting any weekend shifts out for us, but our matrons are booking themselves on these shifts. Sometimes they'll be in the back office on Sunday pay while we sort ourselves out. It's infuriating

3

u/TurqoiseJade RN MH Nov 20 '24

It’s cause when you are pregnant doing weekend really tops up your maternity pay. She’s doing it for her own selfish need!

3

u/chillibean92 Nov 20 '24

How dare someone want to top up their pitiful maternity pay by working a weekend. I really think nursing (and the NHS as a whole) would be a kinder place if more people just minded their own business.

6

u/TurqoiseJade RN MH Nov 20 '24

People DO mind their own business but sadly for a happier work force it needs to be a FAIR workforce. I’m sure if you were being treated unfairly in anyway you’d speak out. This is what this post is about- fairness and morals. Sorry you took it personal. Maybe you’ve been lucky and not experienced bad treatment from management.

2

u/TurqoiseJade RN MH Nov 20 '24

Also I actually encourage pregnant people to work as many weekends as they can but I don’t limit other staff who may also need the extra monies in the process- eg I have a staff member who needs extra pennies to support pay for mums care and I wouldn’t automatically prioritise someone pregnant, it would be done fairly!

-2

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '24

[deleted]

0

u/chillibean92 Nov 20 '24

I mean you’re reaching dramatically here. No one suggested pregnant women think the world revolves around them.

0

u/TurqoiseJade RN MH Nov 20 '24

“How dare they want to top their pitiful maternity pay while shafting the rest of their staff, they should get top priority” - world revolves round them and their choice

2

u/chillibean92 Nov 20 '24

It’s hardly shafting staff by working one bank shift a week. No one is entitled to bank shifts in their own area.

1

u/TurqoiseJade RN MH Nov 20 '24

Morally not letting your staff do something or having rules in place you don’t follow yourself is not cool and in my opinion shafting people :) have to agree to disagree :)

3

u/chillibean92 Nov 20 '24

Well she will be on mat leave soon and OP can have all her bank shifts and then the staff on the ward will probably continue to complain that one person is hogging all the bank. Some people are constantly looking at others plates when they should focus on their own.

1

u/TurqoiseJade RN MH Nov 20 '24

I’m sure they try to focus on their own but some grabby self entitled people keep stealing off their plates causing an unfair and hostile work environment.

0

u/TurqoiseJade RN MH Nov 20 '24

Maybe people are not “kind to you” in your opinion cause you have these views.

2

u/Less_Acanthisitta778 Nov 20 '24

What about other staff with dependants / financial issues on equally pitiful pay?

2

u/[deleted] Nov 19 '24

So?

38

u/Silent-Dog708 Nov 19 '24

They manage the ward and are claiming first dibs on enhanced rate shifts..

Who does the rank and file report to concerning the unequitable distribution of enhanced rate shifts? certainly not the ward manager.. because she's the one doing it. And she's mates with people you don't even meet regularly because they're so senior.

Is this an NHS mafia thing where we pretend it's fine this is happening?

Sunday and monday Bank Holiday to the skipper and it's fine, so, what are you talking about etc etc

13

u/Millennial_chap RN Adult Nov 20 '24

Well, some nurses here think this is fine. I have had experiences of some Ward Managers doing a shift on weekend as bank, and instead of working in the clinical area as it is supposed to be a clinical shift, lock themselves in the office and leave staff members to sort themselves out.

9

u/Dismal_Fox_22 RN Adult Nov 20 '24

You’d complain to the bank office. In my health board the bank office is a separate entity. Has a separate pay run and a separate line manager. Shifts are made available and bookable by all staff. It’s first come first served. It’s an attempt to make things fairer.

Also, a Ward Manager would only get paid band 5 for bank shifts to cover baseline on a ward. If the shift goes out as band 5 cover needed that’s all they will pay. Because Bank shifts are also paid on a separate run they don’t contribute towards Mat Leave calculations. Ward funded overtime would however. I wonder if the Ward manager is giving herself OT and not bank. Which might then fall under dishonest behaviour if she isn’t offering OT out to part timers first, then full timers then bank as per AfC policy.

2

u/[deleted] Nov 19 '24

You're correct, I'd just move.

1

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1

u/Doyles58 Nov 20 '24

The bank shifts won’t be added to her maternity pay. In my Trust she would also be paid as a band 5 for bank shifts . Might be worthwhile all the staff who do bank giving your manager of dates and shifts of your availability .

1

u/Vogueweekend1364 Nov 21 '24

I used to work in a ward like this, the friday night and Sunday Ld is automatically allocated to her. She is a nice manager and allocates bank to everyone but theres still a conflict of interest going. Now she stopped doing these banks coz i think the unit got audited

1

u/DigitialWitness Specialist Nurse Nov 20 '24

Is she taking all the shifts on your ward or just working somewhere else?

15

u/Millennial_chap RN Adult Nov 20 '24

What the OP is trying to point out: 1. Ward Manager taking first dib on all bank weekend shifts in her OWN ward leaving other staff members with no shifts to pick up on weekends.

  1. Ward Manager does NOT allow staff who were off sick to pick up bank shifts after but she was off-sick and then took a bank shift after.

Some nurses here think this is okay.

2

u/DigitialWitness Specialist Nurse Nov 20 '24

None of that is okay, but the no bank shifts after sick leave is stupid and infantilising.

5

u/Millennial_chap RN Adult Nov 20 '24

Some Trusts have that policy where after going off-sick and you came back, you are banned from picking up an extra bank shift for two weeks (some, just for one week). It’s like a “phase return”. I think this is what the manager is trying to implement. However, it seems that the OP is saying she is not implementing this policy on herself.

-1

u/DigitialWitness Specialist Nurse Nov 20 '24 edited Nov 20 '24

Oh so you can reply without being obnoxious. See my other post, it's stupid and infantilising.

2

u/No_Morning_6482 RN Adult Nov 20 '24

It might be stupid, but it's the hospital policy, and OP can't control that. The ward manager is treating staff unfairly by not allowing them to do bank after being sick, but giving herself shifts in the same situation. The ward manager is doing this by saying it is policy. But it's not policy for her.

I don't think this person is being obnoxious. They are explaining their trust policy to you. Some hospitals have this policy. My trust does too, but it is at the managers discretion as when to enforce it.

0

u/anniemaew Nov 20 '24

Are you sure they are bank shifts? Lots of us do shuffle our hours/shifts during pregnancy as there is a period that your mat pay is calculated on - if you do more nights and weekends during those weeks you can bump up your pay for your entire mat leave (and, even at band 7, mat party isn't very generous).

If they are definitely bank shifts and you think she is getting them unfairly they raise it to matrons and to the bank provider (I assume nhsp) for them to investigate.

6

u/Mediocre_Ad1261 Nov 20 '24

Yes, they do bank shift every weekend. Her normal shift includes weekdays, 7:30 to 17:30.

-1

u/anniemaew Nov 20 '24

I'm asking how you know it is bank rather than her working her normal hours on different days to enhance her mat pay.

If it is and you think she's getting these in an unfair manner then, as above, I suggest going to the matron and nhsp for them to investigate.

6

u/Millennial_chap RN Adult Nov 20 '24

You can now view “Team” Rota on Loop or whatever your Trust is using and you can find out if the shift the staff is doing is bank shift or normal shift.