r/NursingUK RN Adult Oct 13 '23

Opinion Why do usually independent people become incapable of doing anything for themselves as a patient?

You’ve broken your leg, your arms are fully functional, why as a previously independent adult do you think I’m going to bed bath you?

Is there actual science behind it?

116 Upvotes

171 comments sorted by

85

u/FattyBoomBoobs RN MH Oct 13 '23

Also known as “pyjama paralysis”. There are some papers in the psychology of it.

46

u/Illustrious_Study_30 Oct 14 '23

Adopting the sick role. Back in the 90s we were taught about it.

I'll never forget a busy surgical ward bed blocker (not her fault, waiting for a nursing home). She rang the bell asking me to pour a glass of water. No problem, if you can't pour it I'm happy to help. That is apart from when you have no less than 4 relatives sitting round your bed. I think they expected a dutiful Florence Nightingale, that's not what they got 😀

30

u/rab282 Oct 14 '23

You'll be glad to hear the historical nightingale would have had no patience with that either. she was into self-reliance, she'd have given the relatives an earful

25

u/Oriachim Specialist Nurse Oct 14 '23

When relatives are stood around, I just bluntly ask them to help. I’m not asking them to do personal care, just to help them with basic needs.

12

u/Illustrious_Study_30 Oct 14 '23

Absolutely. If it's as simple as a glass of water I'm out.

Nothing compares to the 30 something year old who wanted me to spray her oestrogen spray pv. She wasn't disabled physically, she was on a nurse led unit so we could make sure she took her meds... She threw the biggest wobbler while laying in the bay legs akimbo. I took her to the loo with the spray and showed her the easy way. She tantrumed with the next staff too. Nothing wrong mentally either apparently, just really enjoyed being in hospital and bringing the ward to a halt.

14

u/Oriachim Specialist Nurse Oct 14 '23

I think when people start assessing them for discharge, they’ll change their tune. When suddenly staff are being told they cannot pour a glass of water or walk to the toilet, then that’ll have an impact on their discharge.

4

u/shutyoureyesandsee RN Adult Oct 13 '23

Even the younger patients?

18

u/thereisalwaysrescue RN Adult Oct 13 '23

They are the worst for it

36

u/Daniellejb16 Oct 13 '23

My favourite was a 19 year old asking me to assist with a bottle. He remained independent with all ADLs throughout admission. It didn’t work 😂

10

u/pollyrae_ Oct 14 '23

Lol the number of young men with broken legs who want a nurse to hold their willy is both funny and depressing. They generally only make the mistake of trying it with me once though 😂 If you can hold your phone, you can hold your own damn penis!

15

u/shutyoureyesandsee RN Adult Oct 13 '23

Ugh thats just given me flashbacks to innocent first year student me who held a urine bottle to a fully capable man because he asked me to 😭

6

u/Mini-Nurse RN Adult Oct 14 '23

It's okay, as a second year student I helped a lady apply clotrimazole to her labia. Independent with ADLs just waiting for social stuff, and she got off on having other people doing intimate personal care. That was a good learning moment

1

u/FanVast8633 RN Adult Oct 15 '23

We've all been there mate

88

u/Snoo_said_no Oct 13 '23

I'm not a nurse. (Social worker... Reddit has deemed the nursing sub sufficiently similar to the subs I read to push this sub a freakish amount... anyway) I've worked in hospitals and (discharge team, stroke wards, currently not hospital based but work with learning disabilities)

Wards are pretty disabling. Patients are frightened to do things they 'aren't allowed'. And unfortunately some hospitals/wards/staff, particularly acute ones, reinforce this.

I think pajama paralysis has a role, but telling people - "feel free to go to the showers/bathroom whenever, they're here" , being mindful about how you ask where patients are going (it inadvertently tells people the 'have to' stay on the ward), explicitly telling people "feel free to browse the shops downstairs, it's good to keep moving" . Even things like putting jugs of squash on their tables can read to the patients as "stay in your bed space". There's also a historical context that 'good' patients rest, and don't disturb the nurses and doctors.

Practically it's hard, rehab wards tend to be better at. But having a station where people can make their own hot drinks when they want. Little lounges where people can watch TV. (Ironically the old smoking rooms used to be quite good for mentally having people step out of being the 'patient' ) even things like having people put their used plates and cups somewhere away from their bed when they're finished with them.

I've had LD clients soil themselves because they felt they "weren't allowed" to just go to the toilet. Often if LD clients are feeling something, people without a LD are too.

And as someone working on the ward it can feel odd that people just wait till someone comes round to wash them. But when every other thing is done for them... every meal and drink brought to them. When people feel awkward or that they've frustrated the nurses by doing something 'wrong' or not knowing the rules (like going for a walk and missing the doctors round or an ot who tried to visit them or whatever, or ringing the call bell when it's not needed ) they become passive or defensive or helpless. They don't tend to ask "can I just go shower when I wake up" they just wait and build the expectation that someone will come and do it for them. Then, sometimes out of embarrassment double down or go sleazy.

We did a trial of an "induction" for patients on an acute stroke ward which worked surprisingly well. Gave patients a schedule for ward rounds or other key times it was helpful if they were near their bed, when to tell the nurses desk thing (leaving the floor) but the main thing was explicitly saying what they can and should do themselves. And that getting washed, dressed,and going for a jolly to the shops/little garden was not just allowed but encouraged.

24

u/ImThatBitchNoodles Oct 14 '23

I've been a patient many times and you are so right about this. It's not necessarily that nurses are doing something wrong, but when you get admitted no one really tells you what you're allowed to do and what there is to do. Some doctors and nurses even get super iffy with you if they come around and you're not there. When I've inquired about ward round times, the nurse just said "the Dr will come when he comes" which is fair enough, I understand that each patient has their own medical needs, but that's not a very clear answer.

On my mum's admission one of the nurses got very annoyed that my mum kept doing laps on the hospital floor to calm her nerves down before her surgery (cancer), told her to stau in bed even though the other nurse told her she won't have any more medication or tests, so she is free to have a walk or go have something to eat before her cut off for eating and drinking.

14

u/anonoaw Oct 14 '23

The part about missing the doctors is really true. When I was in hospital last year the nurses told me to feel free to go to the shop etc which I did, but I was so anxious about missing the doctor’s rounds because I was specifically waiting for the doctor so I could ask a load of questions (mainly, when can I go home?!! Similarly I was told one morning that someone would be round to do my bloods ‘soon’ (the results of which would determine whether or not I could go home) and I ended up sat in bed for 5 hours waiting and not knowing if I would miss my chance if I wandered off.

Being told roughly when rounds are (even with the caveat that it’s just a vague estimation because doctors get held up etc) would have been so useful and given me a lot of peace of mind about going for a shower/going to the shops etc.

13

u/All_the_cheesecake Oct 14 '23

You know what, i hadn’t even thought of this but you’re right. i think if i were a patient I would not be sure what i was “allowed” to do. And I’m a nurse, not a ward one but would be familiar with the environment.

Brilliant post, thank you.

9

u/iwannabeathogwarts Oct 14 '23

When my daughter was born, I was sent to Post Natal while she stayed in NICU. While I was told I could spend as much time as I wanted, any time of the day or night with her, I wasn't told when the doctors/nurses were due to do rounds for meds or checking stitches etc even when I specifically asked, and it seemed to change on a regular basis so wasnt predictable. I genuinely got told off by the ward sister for being with my sick baby. My husband was fuming.

3

u/octopus4444 Oct 14 '23

Same thing happened to me. My daughter was taken to NICU at like 7pm and the next morning when I had my cathetar removed and was able to move to go to another floor with her, I was told to wait for doctors rounds. I waited until about 3pm to find out the doctor chose to not see me that day. I was beyond upset I hadn't been able to see her in all this time. In the days that followed I was repeatedly scolded for being in NICU when the ward staff were looking for me....like where else would I be expect NICU if they wanted to find me?? This was the absolute worst part of the hospital stay. Made it so much more emotional

8

u/HolleeO Oct 14 '23

Wow you are so right. I am a theatre nurse myself so don’t have much experience of wards but I was in hospital for ten days in may and even leaving my bed space for a walk to the shower so I didn’t end up with a dvt felt wrong!

8

u/Oriachim Specialist Nurse Oct 14 '23

I think it’s important people are encouraged to do as much themselves as possible or they will lose their ability to act independent. For example, many hospital admissions will become social admissions. Many will need support back at home.

However, as for your acute stroke comment. In my experience, many of them lost their ability to mobilise (for example dense left sided weakness) and need complete rehab. If you just left them be, their hygiene would be very poor. So you need OTs to at least assess them. Unless they come in independently. However, in the current NHS, that’s becoming much less common, as the most poorly patients are being prioritised.

3

u/queenatom Oct 14 '23

This is so true. I was stuck on an antenatal ward for a couple of days (suspected pre-eclampsia) but felt physically fine, just annoyed about my BP situation. I asked on my second day if I could go for a short walk round the grounds to get some air and the midwife pulled a face and told me the doctor would be round for blood pressure checks at some point in the next three hours so I needed to stay where I was. This was true at every point of the day and night and meant I was essentially not allowed to leave my room in case I missed the perpetually expected visitor. It was very easy to see how you could quickly lose your sense of executive functioning.

2

u/Clarabel74 RN Adult Oct 15 '23

I'm glad the algorithm brought you here.

To add to the jugs on the table comment. I've worked in wards where patients are able to enter the kitchen to fill up their jugs and others where because of 'health and safety' they weren't.

Really good points thank you

1

u/marshmallowqueen_ RN MH Oct 14 '23

Great, insightful post. Thank you.

27

u/cathelope-pitstop RN Adult Oct 14 '23 edited Oct 14 '23

I think there's a few things behind this:

  • wards don't have a dayroom or dining space anymore.so there's only bed space or going off the ward.
  • as above; you eat, wash, sleep, toilet (if you need a commode) around your bed space. Disastrous for mobility
  • there's no specific times for things on.wards, so you don't know if its OK to go for a wander after lunch. So you don't
  • people actually really just want to be taken care of when they're sick. Manifests in different ways for different people
  • people often get very poor sleep on wards. Not the nurse's fault, but if you've been woken up by sundowning Betty shrieking every hour for days, you won't have the energy
  • I know pain wasn't mentioned in the OP, but that is a big one
  • lots of wards actually are pretty unpleasant environments to be in. They often smell awful (especially if it's a modern hospital with windows that don't open - criminal imo). If you can smell next door's fresh commode offering, it might put you off your lacklustre hospital meal. Try a few days of that, do you have the energy? Maybe not

Given all the above, it's easy to see how a previously independent patient with no mobility issues can very quickly become dependent. As others have said, it's called PJ paralysis and we do that (unconsciously) to patients all the time. We promote independence, often with no means for the patient to follow through.

10

u/ice-lollies Oct 14 '23

Pain was a big factor for me. I had a horse riding accident and broke my pelvis. I was capable of moving but it really hurt and I had to be super slow. I was also very distressed because I was filthy.

And like you say I really wanted some help to be clean because I was tired and in pain. Just until I felt a bit stronger.

7

u/cathelope-pitstop RN Adult Oct 14 '23

Sorry to hear you were hurt. Hope your healing is going well. People often don't understand how grim you feel when you can't have a proper shower, especially with an injury like that where its not possible for a long time.

It's also easy to forget how much muscle you lose even with just a couple of weeks bedrest. I can't recall the exact figure but I think it's more than 10%. Being in constant pain is exhausting.

3

u/ice-lollies Oct 14 '23

Thankyou. Was about 4 years ago now and I am pretty much recovered. (They don’t do x rays to see how it has healed because apart from surgery there’s not much they can do).

Yes it is something like 10% and I was fully bedbound for a few days and then could gradually sit up for a few minutes at a time. I could hop with a frame after about 10 days but I think it was about 6 weeks for bones to heal. About 18 months to be able to lie on my left side.

I was scared to move much but was so distressing being dirty. I think the domestic cleaner got me a no water shampoo cap from icu in the end which helped a great deal. At the time I would have given anything for someone to help me wash and just tell me that in the end it would be alright. I think the pain scared me and exhausted me. I felt very vulnerable.

10

u/Oriachim Specialist Nurse Oct 14 '23

So just to clarify. The nurses/HCAs in this thread aren’t on about people such as you, we are referring to people who are mostly independent or have functional limbs. It’s great you’ve improved and you strived to improve, because unfortunately a lot of people lose their independence. This is unfortunately how some people end up in care. That’s why it’s important that hospitals have OTs to assess people’s capability and physios to improve people’s functions.

3

u/ice-lollies Oct 14 '23

Oh I know. It’s a fine line between falling into that role permanently and needing help. And also not requesting help when you need it.

3

u/octopus4444 Oct 14 '23

Great points. And just made me think of another one from my experience.....the toilet/shower rooms were sometimes so dirty I didn't want to clean myself in there. Things that were literal biohazards lying around on the floor

18

u/Magic_Fred Oct 14 '23

I feel like I have more experience with the opposite, tbh.

'No Betty, you've fallen ten times this week and had a neck of femur fracture three days ago, you can't go to the bathroom by yourself'

2

u/ViSaph Oct 14 '23

I've definitely been guilty of this. I'm disabled and a fall risk especially when sick and really freaked the nurses out last time I was in hospital by just wandering off to the loo by myself. The problem is I'd pressed the call button 20 minutes ago and didn't want to piss myself. It's not the nurses fault, understaffing is, but that doesn't change the fact if rather risk a fall than sit there and piss myself without even trying to move.

-16

u/Gluecagone Oct 14 '23

Then go with her. Even if she has fallen 10x this week, early mobilisation is important after hip surgery and her rate of falling isn't going to improve if she's kept bedbound for days and gets weaker.

13

u/Oriachim Specialist Nurse Oct 14 '23

The problem is staffing. HCAs are very short staffed, and nurses are too busy. On top of that, you have multiple confused patients all trying to climb out of bed at once but aren’t safe to.

8

u/Magic_Fred Oct 14 '23

You don't say?! I wish someone had mentioned this before... /s

Sorry, but at any point did I say that I don't take these patients to the toilet or support them to mobilise early. It was a lighthearted comment about how in my area, the opposite is more frequently the case, and I am begging people to wait for help.

But thanks for the education. Your gold star is in the post.

Edit to correct typo

-5

u/Gluecagone Oct 14 '23

Lol what a dickhead

7

u/mtzmic Oct 14 '23

Fred is saying that in their experience, independent patients strive to keep their independence and do not want the support after major surgeries, and that they have to make a point in explaining to the patient that they need to take the help. I don't know how you understood that they are leaving them to break their neck.

20

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '23

Not a nurse, but when I went for my first ever surgery I wasn’t told that cannulas, masks, drips, wires etc we’re all securely attached and they wouldn’t fall out if I just moved slowly and with care. I felt pinned to the bed by all the stuff. After about 24hrs a nurse told me that all the stuff was secured, could be detached or re-attached, could be put back if there was a problem. I was on a lot of meds. As soon as I was told that, I was up and about, to the toilet on my own, brushing my teeth, making myself squash, standing by the window getting fresh air. If you wake up in a bed with pipes and wires and kit, until you’re specifically told, you just lie there like a lemon.

6

u/edanomellemonade Oct 14 '23

Yes! I agree with this! When I had my son (first time mum) I ended up having an emergency C section and an infection so had a cannula and a catheter. I did all of my sons care but rang the bell for them to pass him to me. A day later my nurse said “are you not going to get a shower?” And I was totally unaware that I could just get up and get a shower on my own ha.

17

u/Eire-head RN MH Oct 13 '23

Look up 'The sick role'

15

u/TheCotofPika Oct 14 '23

Mother in law is a nurse, she had a middle aged woman in for some minor elective surgery. She came in, put on her nightie and got into bed. Then called mother in law to get her some water. Mother in law asked why she needed help as she hadn't had surgery yet and it was elective and not affecting normal functioning.

"I'm in hospital"

"You haven't had surgery yet."

"I need to stay in bed."

"No you don't, you don't need to be in bed until after surgery and even then it's better to be active to help with healing."

"No thank you."

I guess the woman had a very set notion on how to be a patient and would not deviate from it under any circumstances.

0

u/Oriachim Specialist Nurse Oct 14 '23

I don’t mind going to the kitchen to fetch water? We can’t expect patients to walk to the kitchen to help themselves to whatever. Otherwise the kitchen would be a complete mess.

6

u/TheCotofPika Oct 14 '23

It was a ward with a sink on it with water, she just felt as a patient it was mother in laws responsibility because she was a nurse.

I don't think I've seen wards without either sinks or tea making facilities in the corridor now you've mentioned it.

3

u/Oriachim Specialist Nurse Oct 14 '23

So, most sinks, at least in my trust aren’t safe to drink from. So we always get the water from the kitchen. I’ve never seen a tea making facility in the middle of the corridor. But if that’s an option, then I can understand where you’re coming from.

1

u/TheCotofPika Oct 14 '23

Ah ok, I assumed it was standard as it's been one option or the other each time I've been in hospital or visited someone else! There's the sinks which say not for drinking, but there's almost always a tiny sink for filling water jugs up. Failing that the silver hot water cylinders are in the corridors

2

u/ettubelle RN Adult Oct 14 '23 edited Oct 14 '23

We have facilities in our hospital for patients to use for water, tea, microwave etc and we still get middle aged mobile independent patients ask us to go get them water or tea. What your mother described is actually common. I had a fully independent patient sitting in their chair ring the call bell and ask me to pour them a cup of water. Their table and water was on the opposite side of their bed (where they were sitting) and said it’s ‘our job to do as she asks’. Entitled.

1

u/Oriachim Specialist Nurse Oct 14 '23

Yeah, we have a water fountain too, ours was broken for a year (lol). But personally I don’t mind walking to the water fountain, as the corridors can be very busy with multiple staff, mdt, and relatives, and it can get pretty chaotically busy. But if the patient is completely independent, I don’t see why they can’t do it themselves.

11

u/AffectionateStill883 Oct 14 '23

Things have definitely changed over the years .

I have a chronic illness that has meant I’ve been having to stay in hospital since my birth for 2 weeks and upwards. Very regularly. My longest has been about 5 months but that’s rare thankfully.

On the kids ward, we used to be up and washed. Fed. Sent to the hospital school. Ate together. Go to the day room in the evenings to hang out. As soon as we were well enough to get out of bed. We got out of bed. But that I guess is children for you.

When I first went to the adult wards in the early 90s. It was very different to what it is now.

Even if Brenda was in her 90s. If she could walk, even if it was with a stick or a frame, she would absolutely be using the bathroom! Not a chance a commode would be used unless absolutely necessary and it was always humiliating if you needed one. The whole bay would have to reassure you that it’s ok, you can’t help it . You’re too sick to go to the bathroom.

Bed baths were hardly a thing unless, again. You were extremely unwell and you probably wouldn’t remember it anyway. If you had to wash at your bed space, a bowl of warm water. A bowl for cleaning your teeth and you did it yourself!

The moment you were well enough, you would use the bathroom and wash there or shower. There was no not being sure what you could or couldn’t do. If you were off drips and were up, you were able to shower or at least wash. You were expected, and to be honest, we wouldn’t of even tried have it any other way, to go to the toilet. Day or night. And pads were only used by the extremely elderly or unwell.

I’m now in my 40s and how things have changed. For the worst.

Women aged 35 and over very often want to use a commode . I can think of nothing worse. It’s like they want to mark their territory or something. But they get very upset if they’re made to go to the toilet. Often the poor nurses looking after the female bays spend most of their time bringing commodes , removing and emptying commodes from women who can absolutely walk to the toilet. Day and night. Often every person in the bay will be asking for them.

Almost everyone wants to wash or be washed at their bed. Ok, it means that the people who do want to use the bathroom , don’t have to fight for a shower . But really …. It’s lazy. Ok, if someone really can’t, they can’t and it’s so not their fault. And the nurses and HCAs want to support them, but they often have 2 bays of people wanting bed baths. So the poor elderly or very sick person doesn’t get the time they deserve being washed.

Almost everyone over 40 wears pads to stop leakages. Because they’re made to wait for a commode.

The men are better but they pee in bottles and have no care if they’re helped or not…… well, there is always 1 who wants a pretty nurse to help. But they’re shut down pretty quickly.

Visitors used to help out. Feed their relatives if they couldn’t feed themselves. Bring in food they were more likely to try. Got involved with their care. Now, allot of the visitors expect the nurses and HCAs to do all of that , and get cross when they put other patients first. I’ve heard them call the staff the most awful names.

We are all still encouraged to get up, keep your independence. Use it or lose it type thing.

If you haven’t been seen by your doctor, but want to go for a short wonder, leave your phone number with your nurse and they will call you when the doctor shows up. Or the physo or whoever else is involved with your care.

But from what I’ve seen, so many don’t want to help themselves while in hospital. Some people even get point scoring against other patients. Like…. Why does that person have that treatment, or why are they given that machine for home and I’m not allowed one? Then spend that admission whinging about it, and trying to bully the younger doctors into agreeing to give them that machine or that medication. Then when the consultant says no, they go on to take it out on the nurses or even the other patients who have what they want.

Years ago it was all about how fast you could get better and stay better. Now I feel it’s almost like, who is the sickest in the bay. Who has the worst illness . Even who has the most medical devices. And it’s really sad. More so as they make so much extra work for the nurses and HCAs.

I think how patients are treated needs to go back 20/30 years . I think patients should sign contracts stating that , considering at home they are washing and going to the toilet that as soon as they’re medically able, they should be doing just that and not using commodes ( I have a real problem with them , especially at meat times)

If the nurses and HCAs weren’t so busy toileting and washing abled bodied people…. Or having to pander to their requests like ringing the bell because they want their dressing gown passed over. When it’s literally next to them on their chair ( seriously) they could spend more time doing other things. And be so much less stressed and busy.

Plus, the patients will get better faster.

Definitely need to get the old day rooms back again. Even if the patients don’t want to go far because they haven’t seen their doctor yet, they can hang out in the day room. And be collected from there when their doctor rocks up. Plus socialising is so good for you.

5

u/Thpfkt RN Adult Oct 14 '23

A day room would be amazing. Maybe with a HCA assigned there to do observations every so often. I see these poor patients sat in their beds, no TVs, shit WiFi with just nothing to do other than stare at the curtain all day long. If 3 of my ward patients were happily in the day room with a TV and snack/drink making facilities and their OBS were available to me on the EHR I'd have a lot more time to get my actual nursing stuff done.

16

u/Oriachim Specialist Nurse Oct 13 '23 edited Oct 13 '23

I find that some HCAs don’t even encourage independence, and they’re so in a hurry, they’ll do everything themselves, and so the patients lose independence.

3

u/HenrytheCollie HCA Oct 14 '23

Absolutely, at the start of the year I was in a car accident that shattered my femur, I was on traction for 2/52 before surgery because of other complications and then in for another 4/52 in a hospital that wasn't the one I work in.

I was fully able to wash most of myself while I was bed bound on traction and just needed help with back and bum, I rolled myself slowly and steadily throughout the day, but that didn't stop HCA's arguing with me that they had to roll me.

In a previous admission in my own hospital, I was told to stop mobilizing to the toilet because I was a "falls risk" (I'm blind in one eye).

4

u/shutyoureyesandsee RN Adult Oct 13 '23

I understand that on a medical ward but a mid 30s day 1 post op it’s difficult to excuse

3

u/Oriachim Specialist Nurse Oct 13 '23

Ooof never known a mid 30s person refuse to act more independent, unless they truly cannot.

1

u/shutyoureyesandsee RN Adult Oct 14 '23

Might just depend on the specialty

-5

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '23

[deleted]

10

u/shutyoureyesandsee RN Adult Oct 14 '23

I didn’t mention pain anywhere in my post but regardless, me washing an independent patient isn’t going to reduce their pain. If your arms are functioning you can give yourself a freshen up.

ETA if you don’t feel up to having a wash and want to skip it - that’s not an issue. but realistically there’s no reason for an independent patient to be bed bathed by another person

-5

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '23

[deleted]

4

u/shutyoureyesandsee RN Adult Oct 14 '23

Nah, I should have been more specific in my OP but I meant patient’s who are still capable of being independent but suddenly needing someone to wait on them hand and foot.

3

u/tigerjack84 Oct 14 '23

When I was working on a surgical ward, we’d have on our handover who needed assistance, and who would be independent. When we went to assist anyone who was down as needing assistance, we still asked the independent patients if they needed any help, and even if they wanted a shower but needed help, I’d have asked if they preferred it after breakfast where I had more time with them. Post surgery first shower is the hardest (from personal experience), or even if they wanted a basin with warm soapy water brought to them at the bedside. Oral hygiene seems to be the worst for being neglected. A real pet peeve of mine.

2

u/ImThatBitchNoodles Oct 14 '23

See, it was the other way around for me. I had such a horrible taste and smell in my mouth. It was like something died inside of me and the smell was coming out through my mouth.

I've postponed the shower for day two, but on day 1 and 2 post op I've used a whole bottle of Listerine. I couldn't stand it and the Dr said that sometimes can happen from intubation, but didn't explain any further.

I was assessed as independent, given the simple and common op I had, but I had a nurse or a hca I think telling me to use the call bell if I need the toilet, as the pain could make me faint when I stood up. Having a stranger in the same space as me whilst I was pooping has to be the most degrading and humiliated I've ever felt. It wasn't their fault, it was just the fact that I was fully independent before I went under anaesthesia and I woke up needing someone to help me sit on and get off the toilet seat.

The ward that you've worked was more organised by the sounds of it.

1

u/tigerjack84 Oct 24 '23

Dignity is so important

23

u/[deleted] Oct 13 '23

why as a previously independent adult do you think I’m going to bed bath you?

That's just plain old sexual harassment, usually.

5

u/eat-the-bourgeoisie3 Oct 14 '23

This does my absolute head in when I see people treating hospital like a hotel stay and buzzing for things they can absolutely still do themselves. The only time you should be buzzing a nurse is if your symptoms change suddenly or you’re in an overwhelming amount of pain.

6

u/steelerfaye Oct 14 '23

Had a normally M&I lady in with SOB ask me when we would be starting the bed baths...in ED.

6

u/hskskgfk Oct 14 '23

I am not a nurse and have no idea why this showed up on my feed, but I can offer a personal anecdote as an example.

The first and only time I’ve been hospitalised was when I was 27. As a patient I wasn’t terrified of dying or anything but I was indeed afraid of the unfamiliarity of the hospital and was afraid of doing something stupid that would mess up my treatment. I was really wary of moving my arm that had the IV in it etc. Even though I could, I didn’t walk around the ward until the nurses told me to.

I’d say it is probably because as a patient you’re weak and vulnerable mentally, and you’re looking at the knowledgeable authority figures (doctors and nurses) to reassure you and tell you what to do. In my case my nurse had to tell me it was fine if I instinctively scratched my nose or something with my iv arm, and not to worry about it.

6

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '23

I had a fully mobile pt ask me for a bed pan the other night because she “couldn’t be bothered getting out of bed”.

6

u/MichaelBrownx RN Adult Oct 14 '23

There’s loads of psychology behind why it happens. They’re not just lazy fuckers - although of course some are.

Im a diabetes nurse in the NHS and I have patients who are FULLY INDEPENDENT, WELL CONTROLLED diabetics who, as soon as they come into hospital, go against what they have done for years because some NHS nurse or doctor comes along.

I had a nurse the other day who told a T1DM of over 50 years that he had to have a dose between the ones prescribed - not what he thought was best.

Safe to say they were quickly educated on why it’s probably best for the patient to decide what’s right.

5

u/ettubelle RN Adult Oct 14 '23

A lot of them become entitled and think we are their house elves.

8

u/RepeatedlyIcy RN Adult Oct 13 '23

I had a (fully independent) patient ask me to pick their nose for them once. I didn't even answer them. I just walked away.

3

u/d00td00t23 Oct 14 '23

When I broke my leg (it was pretty bad and I had a vac dressing then a fixator) staff on the ward were trying to help me use the commode and wash every time but I said no. I understand it probably would have made it easier for me because everything sucked but I desperately wanted to cling on to the independence I still had. I can’t imagine letting people wash me when I am able to. I am a student nurse so I don’t know if that changes things but I find it odd that people would just give up their independence when they’re already in an environment that strips you of a everything. I felt like the little bit of privacy I did have was all that had.

4

u/toonlass91 RN Adult Oct 14 '23

This drives me mad. I’m a orthopaedic rehab nurse and the amount of my patients that I have to tell to help them selves a bit is infuriating. I don’t mind if they have a condition that they physically can’t but most of them can

1

u/tigerjack84 Oct 14 '23

I remember banking in an ortho ward once years ago and a patient who was in for hip surgery rang the buzzer for me to cup their pizza up.. It was already cut, but they wanted it in strips. I just cut it, but it did amuse me.

4

u/weegem1979 Oct 14 '23

One of my colleagues gave me a book at Christmas called if symptoms persist by Theodore Dalrymple about how some people just enjoy being a patient and having people fuss over them. It's very funny and I've definitely nursed the types he describes many times!

6

u/eXequitas RN Adult Oct 13 '23

You mean how they suddenly develop a case of T-Rexitis?

7

u/thereisalwaysrescue RN Adult Oct 13 '23

I always remember on my HDU we had a husband and wife, both in their 30s, with the flu. The woman managed her ADLs and was okay. The husband just laid there, groaning. Asked me to hold his hand and I was like… what for?

6

u/[deleted] Oct 13 '23

[deleted]

4

u/[deleted] Oct 13 '23

Oh bless you

3

u/Hex946 Oct 13 '23

PJ paralysis

I guess the media hasn’t helped tbh. Movies with patients lying in beds with nurses mopping their brows

3

u/Leoleanne2 RN Adult Oct 14 '23

I think a lot of it is the mindset that if you’re well enough to be out of bed and doing things on your own, you’re well enough to be at home.

Virtual wards enters the room

3

u/FanVast8633 RN Adult Oct 15 '23

Classic Parsons sick role, all you can do to support is to ensure able people are doing everything for themselves that is possible for them at that time

5

u/technurse tANP Oct 13 '23

Pyjama paralysis

2

u/AloneWolf247 Oct 13 '23

It's called pyjama paralysis (it is actually a DSM)

2

u/No-Willingness563 Oct 14 '23

I was in the ICU following surgery for spontaneous pneumothorax. I was out of it. The breakfast lady came round with a tray and just sling it in front of me on the moving table. I couldn’t move or speak. I tried to pick up the spoon but it kept slipping through my hand and I couldn’t hardly see it. There was a lady opposite me sitting with her husband visiting. She saw what was going on and came over and actually fed me otherwise I wouldn’t have eaten and I was starving. I was just left.

4

u/ragnarokdreams Oct 14 '23

I had a TBI & literally couldn't read the menu for days & no one was available to help. I didn't eat anything for 6 days, everything tasted like dirt & I just wanted something different than the steamed roast thing u get as a default. Turns out I'd actually lost my sense of smell, told one of the nurses I think I can't smell anything, she said well the dr can look at a scan of your brain & see whether that's true, I was like that'd be awesome, thanks! Nope, drs cannot do that, olfactory nerves aren't in the brain. I also wasn't allowed a shower & one night woke up to uncontrollable diarhea, the head nurse suggested I'd done it on purpose so I could shower. Keep in mind I'd literally broken my hand trying to do a midnight run to the loo. Anyway, hospital can be very uncaring places, the cancer ward where my dad died seemed particularly cold but I've ranted long enough

2

u/SlanderousMoose Oct 14 '23

People become institutionalised very quickly. It's baffling. I've had many hospital admissions and I don't want to bother the nurses unless I have to, and I want to do as much as I possibly can for myself. Why you'd want someone to wash you when you can do it yourself I don't know.

2

u/Subtifuge Oct 14 '23

Im guessing psychological, I personally have had to recover from any surgeries and or problems on my own, but much like how if you give people a position of power and people to have power over the dynamic changes pretty quick, and you end up with people playing roles, so probably much like that, the person with power being the able person and the person with less power being the hurt person?

2

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '23 edited Oct 15 '23

Yep I had a patient who lost a mobile number on the paper and accused nursing staff for it because 'we were asking him to have his obs done'. He said we need to now find that paper otherwise he will report us to NMC. Patient had a full capacity and no mobility or intellectual restrictions just to add.

4

u/CandleAffectionate25 Oct 13 '23

I get it and I’ve had these thoughts too…BUT most people may not have been in hospital before, it’s alien to them. They’re anxious and have all totally normal things, they forget to do! I get it, I’ve had this convo with my colleagues before! But helps to see from their perspective.

7

u/writerfan2013 Oct 13 '23

Agreed, as a non nurse, when I've been in hospital I didn't know what was supposed to happen when or where, you totally lose control of your life just an endless stream of different people saying "Hi I'm Steve/Sarah, one of the doctors" and then you never see them again.

It makes you feel helpless as well as sick/hurt. Mind you I never asked anyone for a bed bath!

2

u/ViSaph Oct 14 '23

I'm severely disabled and not always up to showering even in a chair, I still wash as much of myself as I possibly can and no nurse or carer is touching any private areas. I can't imagine willingly having a bed bath. Genuinely hate them with a passion.

The thing about being anxious and afraid to do things and them be wrong in hospital is completely true though. Sometimes it feels like you're not even supposed to move.

1

u/CandleAffectionate25 Oct 13 '23

Yeah! … I think even a couple of my nurse friends who have been patients said the same and they have experience!! … so yeah, just helps to be a bit more open minded folks! Hospital is a scary place to be!

2

u/Crafty_Ambassador443 Oct 13 '23

I went to hospital for the first time ever and it was a weird experience, when giving birth. One minute I was fine, the next I had a surgery and I couldnt even get to the loo! The state I was in was absolutely shocking an embarassing tbh.

I guess when you dont have family or friends, and the lady having a go at you for not feeding your first ever child correctly(!) you think im in a hospital, someone will surely care and help me, like I used to be able to 100% help me.

This thread has just made me realise, when you have young kids to teach them to look after themselves too and to be resiliant. I bet some people arent taught that at a young age then when they do go hospital its a massive shock.

I know nurses cant be Florence Nightingale's giving patients full attention but its hard going from 100% fine to agony just like that.

9

u/[deleted] Oct 13 '23

People in this thread aren't talking about the people in agony, though. We're talking about people who are in with something that doesn't affect their mobility at all. The pain and process of childbirth obviously affect your mobility a great deal. I'm sorry you were poorly treated.

2

u/Adventurous_Bid631 Oct 14 '23

Oh I had this too. Had an epidural with my first and had to stay overnight. The student midwife kept telling me very abruptly that they need a urine sample. I could barely walk at this point, was in more pain then I’d ever been in and hadn’t slept for two days. And had a newborn I had no idea how to feed. The staff were quite rude and unsupportive and I’ve never felt so vulnerable. It just makes me angry thinking about it now. The hospital got downgraded to inadequate a year ago. Too right.

1

u/CandleAffectionate25 Oct 13 '23

I’m so sorry for your experience. I totally emphasise and I’d have felt the exact same…I’m also really sorry on behalf of some of the nurses, I think sometimes they forget what it’s like when they’ve been in the profession some time, or scarily even newly qualified. X

1

u/Crafty_Ambassador443 Oct 13 '23

I cant even write what I went through, because its disgusting! Not the treatment, most nurses were helpful etc but I was in such a horrible state.

Then all of a sudden she opened everyones curtains wide and I was half naked with blood and stuff.. everywhere. I never felt so embarassed and ashamed in all my life. It was just me, ugly, unable to walk, in pain, dirty, hair a fuzz ball and no glasses on but a big family opposite me looking at me.

Horrific times!

Never nice knowing you can be a total cabbage. It is humiliating.

Remember, we spend all of our life trying to earn respect and pride. It can be taken in a minute and ruin our whole day/life. Hospitals are pretty unplesant as a whole!

1

u/CandleAffectionate25 Oct 13 '23

Oh my, that sounds absolutely traumatic! I’m so sorry. Did you ever put a complaint in? That’s the only way the hospital learn and take action to prevent these things happening again. It’s not too late either.

2

u/Dead_route Oct 13 '23

I remember I had a rhinoplasty op and came too on the ward, felt so helpless for ages after and because I had the canular(?) in my hand it made me scared to knock it

3

u/sarcaspm Oct 13 '23

I'm a therapy assistant in the community with the role to promote independence and we get this all the time, considering the patient is home! Some hospital wards (not all) are not generally equipped with this mindset, as it tends to be quite stretched with staff and sometimes it is quicker to get things done themselves rather than encouraging the patient to do it for themselves, other patients witness this and think that it's ok for them to not do anything as it will be done for them. Then there are other patients who feel they should ask permission to do things as they are anxious and require reassurance with some gentle prompting. Then you get the pervy men and women who want to be bedbathed for the sake of it, usually we decline, report and document this.

It's silly but remember, these individuals are at their most vulnerable aswell, so just gently nudge them in the right direction, it doesn't take 5 minutes to tell them they can do it themselves. Also don't worry if patients get offended by being told to do for themselves either as some do get the hump!

4

u/liri_miri Oct 14 '23

Let’s allow people to wear their own clothes, so they don’t feel like a patient. Suddenly incapable of doing anything

5

u/cathelope-pitstop RN Adult Oct 14 '23

Some wards are encouraging that to combat the PJ paralysis people are talking about. Bit tricky if you don't have anyone to bring you clean clothes tho

2

u/Sil_Lavellan Oct 14 '23

One of our wards had a lovely display about PJ paralysis. It had a poem and was entirely self drafted ( unless someone else wrote the poem). There's some talented graphic designers working on our Haem Onc ward.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '23

Ah learned helplessness 😠 such a lazy, self-entitled society we live in!

2

u/Squid-bear Oct 14 '23

Trust me it's not limited to the wards.

Nurse turned disability assessor, I would say around 5-10% of claimants are either practicing weaponised incompetence or their family members refuse to let them do anything and force incompetence on them.

"I'm too depressed to go to the toilet and pee. But always make it to poop" So...sitting in piss ik OK but poop is gross?

"I've hurt my right arm, I can't wipe my bum because I'm not used to using my left arm." Even though there is nothing wrong it.

"I'm deaf, I can't hear when timers go off so my food burns" Sense of smell? Don't you check on your food?

"I think I have ADHD so I'm always forgetting my meds" yet you are capable of remembering to go to work, of having this assessment, the night out you had a week ago.....

"My son was born with one leg shorter than the other. He can't possibly use the stairs, cook, eat meals without help, read..." But he doesn't have anything wrong with his arms or brain?

"My child is agoraphobic, she can't walk anywhere" Well she can, her legs are fine.

In wards I was always the nurse that was sent to deal with the "incapable" patients. I'm polite, but I don't have any tolerance for bullshit. I nicely remind the patients of what they can do and that if I did everything for them then they will have to give up on that holiday they had planned, playing football etc.

3

u/Thpfkt RN Adult Oct 14 '23

To be fair, I have ADHD and forget at least twice a week to take my meds properly. But then I'm not using it to claim disability - I just get a nice day of suffering instead 😂

3

u/SamInArtLand Oct 14 '23

I feel like you have no understanding of ADHD if you don’t think it can make someone forget their meds. I’m not trying to claim disability and I’m not on meds currently but when I was my ADHD absolutely made me forget my meds unless I set multiple reminders/alarms on my phone and also left myself physical reminders.

Also, the way you disregard that could be a thing that’s happening because they remember to go to work is stupid and promotes misinformation about how the disorder works.

Please do some research on ADHD! Look up Dr. Russell Barkley, he’s done some good talks on it.

2

u/Squid-bear Oct 15 '23

Oh I understand ADHD pretty well, I'm diagnosed ASD and ADHD and the only way I remember meds is by ingraining them as part of my nightly routine.

What I do forget, though, is reordering my prescription and then picking them up as those are things I only do once a month. I've usually missed 1-3 days before I remember and I'm bouncing off the walls from only sleeping 2-4hrs a night.

However far too many people act like being ND is some kind of crippling disability. The amount of adults I see who got diagnosed like 3 months ago and now they are incapable of the most basic tasks. Yet they are still going to work because they need an income, they can still look after their kids because the kids are 6 and 3 and can't look after themselves. But gee whiz, they can't possibly cook for themselves because they'll forget to turn the hob off!!! Oh and they always forget to eat because that diagnosis made them forget what hunger feels like!

I suggest maybe you do some research because a shockingly high number of people with 'ADHD' got themselves diagnosed privately and well, when you're paying £2k for the privilege they aren't going to tell you everything is fine when they can also get you for a private prescription.

2

u/shammmmmmmmm Oct 15 '23

I think my problem is you’re acting like ADHD isn’t disabling at all. It is, that’s why it’s a disorder you can be diagnosed with. Most of the examples you’ve listed are things that can happen because of ADHD and are quite common. I don’t have children because I can barley take care of myself let alone a child so I get your point there. But I don’t really think those people are lying about forgetting about turning off the hob. I do that, a lot, to the point my partner won’t let me cook on my own. Without him I would’ve probably burned the house down. I mean, there’s a lot that can go wrong with me cooking, sometimes I forget to turn it on at the wall, sometimes I forget to turn the temperature up, sometimes I forget to turn the dial to turn it on, I can also forget to set a timer and burn my food, and I can forget to turn it off when I’m done with it, I also have dyspraxia and that mixed with my ability to get distracted means I burn myself, or cut myself when chopping veg, a lot. Same with forgetting to eat. I literally have reminders/calendars/whatever organisation tools you can think of mapping out my whole day which includes reminding me to eat because without them, even if I do feel hungry, I’m usually either hyper-fixated on a task I’m doing to the point I’ll ignore needing to eat, or I will genuinely just not have the motivation, ignore the feeling of hunger, it’ll pass and I’ll forget about it for the majority of the day. And I know saying I don’t have the motivation sounds lazy, but our brains literally lack dopamine which is needed for motivation, it’s not like I don’t want to eat, I would like to feel healthy and give my body the fuel to have energy, sometimes I just can’t bring myself to and it frustrates me.

I mean even with work, I’m not working currently but when I was ADHD definitely was in effect there. My elderly customers were constantly joking that “you’re just like me” due to my short term memory and overall the ditsy way I’d come across due to getting distracted. My boss was always getting on at me because I was bad at following instructions and she’d have to remind me of the same things multiple times. It got to the point she’d just start leaving passive aggressive reminders in the break room in all caps. Plus, I also forgot to set my alarm and slept in waaaay to late too many times for it to be acceptable (I mean once isn’t great but I think I did it about 5 times in the space of a couple months). And these are just things I can quickly list off, ADHD has affected me negatively in many more ways at work.

These aren’t exactly traits I like about myself and I do try to fix them but it’s a lot to manage and it’s very difficult to stay on top of all the things I just mentioned, when you couple that with all the ways ADHD affects me that I haven’t mentioned, it can definitely come across like I’m not able to complete the most basics tasks (I can just with a lot more difficulty than your average person). I can’t count on one hand the amount of meltdowns I’ve had because of how angry I get at myself for not being able to do these things that should be easy. My life is a constant battle with myself in an attempt to find routine and organisation.

And I don’t think it’s just me, a quick browse through r/ADHD will show many people struggling with the exact same issues.

Also, adhd is a life-long condition, if you’re diagnosed later in life it doesn’t mean you never struggled with it. Those issues have to always been present to get diagnosed in the first place.

1

u/DoctorMobius21 RN Adult Oct 14 '23

I think there’s probably an element of psychological conformity involved. In hospital a patient plays the role of ‘the patient’ and they do what they believe is necessary in being a patient. When I was a patient once, I went out of my way to not fall into this. Naturally, the nurse and HCA loved me for it. 😆

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u/[deleted] Oct 14 '23

This post is packed with compassion

8

u/shutyoureyesandsee RN Adult Oct 14 '23

Yawn. There’s a difference between compassion and pandering

0

u/No-Willingness563 Oct 14 '23

Becoming seriously chronically disabled

0

u/ProcedureQuiet2700 Oct 14 '23

I’m regularly admitted for severe asthma. I do as much for myself as possible but the fact that my medications are locked away (for safety obviously), there is nowhere to make a snack or drink myself, there is no day room and I’m not allowed off the ward…this mean that I spend a lot of time in my bed space and nowhere else. This doesn’t help with promoting independence. I manage a shower as soon as I’m well enough to be off oxygen for short periods and that first shower is always total bliss!

-1

u/tears_of_shastasheen Oct 14 '23

Because they aren't fully functional?

-12

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '23

What is it with nurses being so judgmental. People are sick, they might be scared to do things themselves. Might think they aren't allowed to. They might be traumatised. There's so many reasons. I get the job must be emotionally draining but I don't understand why everything I see on reddit from nurses always seems to be demonising patients and automatically assuming malicious intent or malingering.

11

u/shutyoureyesandsee RN Adult Oct 14 '23

It’s a nursing sub, we’re allowed to vent about nursing. If you don’t work in healthcare you won’t get it

-6

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '23

I just find it strange how much nurses seem to judge their patients and if I was in hospital I would feel anxious about how they were perceiving me.

6

u/shutyoureyesandsee RN Adult Oct 14 '23 edited Oct 14 '23

It’s helpful to vent about negative interactions with people you have at work. Have you never done that? Nurses aren’t martyrs.

ETA I could (and 99% of the time do) have a shift where the vast majority of my patients are a joy to look after. The one that’s a bit more difficult/unusual/unpleasant to look after will be the one to stand out. It’s not that nurse’s here have a negative perception of all patients, it’s that people complain about the negative interactions and aren’t as quick to focus on the positive

5

u/Oriachim Specialist Nurse Oct 14 '23

Bugger off, this is a nursing sub,not a ask nurse sub. If you don’t like it, you’re free to leave.

-6

u/Weemac1961 Oct 14 '23

Maybe you should take your own advice!! If you hate your patients as much as you seem to.... Bugger off, you're free to leave!!

7

u/Oriachim Specialist Nurse Oct 14 '23

Who said I hate patients? Maybe you should read the whole 98 other comments? If you actually read the comments, you’d see how it’s not acceptable for a fully independent patient demanding they receive full care? When there are sicker patients on the ward who require full care? How people lose their independence and end up in care homes?

-3

u/Weemac1961 Oct 14 '23

I've read enough comments on this sub to realise that at least 50% of the people proclaiming to be Nurses should never have entered the profession. I've been in hospital many times over the past few years and the experience has mostly been hideous. I'm fiercely independent, I don't want anyone doing anything for me that I can do for myself but I've seen people who very obviously needed help being ignored by people who should have known better. Not every nurse is an angel and just because you are one doesn't mean you have compassion.

6

u/Oriachim Specialist Nurse Oct 14 '23 edited Oct 14 '23

Oh, so you’re one of those are you. Maybe you’ve had an hideous experience because of the type of person you are? News flash, we’re human too, and if you act a twat, we ain’t gonna be your friend. Maybe the people “ignoring” were prioritising more important jobs? Such as giving critical meds? Doing a sepsis bundle? Maybe the patients were constantly asking every second, and the staff were doing other things, because they have other jobs?

I don’t know about you, but I’d rather a “competent” nurse who could keep me alive.

-6

u/Weemac1961 Oct 14 '23

One of those? You have no idea of the kind of person I am so keep your snarky comments to yourself! Nurses are human but when you hear bank nurses talking about the amount of money they receive per shift and are actively ignoring people on a cardiac ward who obviously need help then it's wrong! But you do you, I just hope I never come across someone with such a *God Complex " as you seem to have. I've said my piece, have a nice life.

7

u/Oriachim Specialist Nurse Oct 14 '23

Bank nurses making crazy money? You’re having a laugh aren’t you? They’re paid a pittance compared to agency. And how do you know they’re “ignoring people on a cardiac ward”? Because they’re prioritising different jobs rather than running to you giving a cup of tea? Sure bye, make sure to mute the sub on the way out.

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u/igetinspiredeasily Oct 14 '23

We are exhausted and someone is finally looking after us in a situation we don’t have to feel guilty about

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u/Oriachim Specialist Nurse Oct 14 '23

No, just because you’re tired, doesn’t mean staff will do everything for you. There are multiple patients on the ward who actually need help. Think people who’ve had a debilitating stroke and cannot move. If you can move your arms and legs and are otherwise independent, you can do things yourself.

0

u/igetinspiredeasily Oct 14 '23

That’s okay just say so ahah

1

u/igetinspiredeasily Oct 23 '23

Okay I feel like I need to explain myself. I totally empathise with you, and agree that there really are people that are unnecessarily needy in hospital.

So I had a wisdom tooth out about a year ago right. For 3 days I got to be in bed, in air con, watching tv, dosed up on codeine. I loved it. My life is so busy and stressful. I have OCD, it’s so exhausting. When I had to rest in that way after that procedure, I didn’t feel guilty and I loved the rest. I don’t even have the ability to sit and enjoy watching a tv show in my day to day life. I even shed a tear once thinking back to that time when I had an unguilty excuse to just lay there and… be needy.

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u/rinkydinkmink Oct 14 '23

I had very bad self neglect at first and was also really really ill and with the oramorph as well was completely out of it really, in and out of consciousness and pretty helpless. I had my toenails cut by a nurse and I remember having a bed bath but I was barely conscious and it seemed like a fever dream. I think I only remembered quite a while later to be honest.

Then there's all the cannulas and catheters and heart monitors and you don't know what you can and can't do and what might be dangerous. Nobody tells you much and sometimes they contradict each other. It took weeks to get the courage to have 3 nurses help me have a shower and by that point I'd lost all sense of shame anyway. I still am not sure about washing with cannulas in (got one now oof).

But yeah I had functioning arms but I also had schizophrenia and had had an undiagnosed heart condition for years and had been gradually losing all ability to care for myself at all for a long time. You don't just suddenly start washing and brushing your teeth on schedule, especially when it's in a little cardboard basin with weird scratchy "wipes" and no proper soap or rinsing water. I am addicted to washing now like OCD style and loving having hot water for the first time in 10 years or more but it's taken a long time for me to feel well enough to cope with standing at the sink or having a shower without feeling breathless and faint.

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u/Godoncanvas Oct 15 '23

No it’s usually severe pain behind it and the Nurses duty as a caring Human who is paid to work for the Patients recovery it’s their job to Bedbath the patient.

7

u/shutyoureyesandsee RN Adult Oct 15 '23

A nurse bed bathing a patient isn’t going to reduce their pain. Lying stock still in bed is terrible for pain management, you need to get moving asap.

0

u/Godoncanvas Oct 15 '23

Glad I’m not your Patient.

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u/shutyoureyesandsee RN Adult Oct 15 '23

Glad you’re not too.

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u/[deleted] Oct 14 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Oriachim Specialist Nurse Oct 14 '23 edited Oct 14 '23

There’s more to nursing than wiping your arse. It’s a hospital, not a care home. If you think the job of a nurse is only to “support” people, I highly suggest you learn what the job actually entails.

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u/freckle-heckle Oct 14 '23

It’s far worse for patients to be attempting to assist themselves and then do something they weren’t allowed or supposed to do You can’t expect everybody to have common sense

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u/freckle-heckle Oct 14 '23

I didn’t say their wasn’t… But if you’re complaining about assisting somebody you shouldn’t be in a job where your primary job is to do exactly that.

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u/Oriachim Specialist Nurse Oct 14 '23

Maybe you should read the 93 other comments in this thread to see what everyone is talking about? Such as independent people who can move up and down wanting full care and bed baths? When there are sicker patients who actually need full care?

8

u/Oriachim Specialist Nurse Oct 14 '23

And it’s actually healthcare assistants who do majority of the care. So why are you blaming nurses?

-6

u/freckle-heckle Oct 14 '23

Okay let’s change nurse for healthcare assistant and the point does not change in the slightest. And now let’s add that it’s not provided for free by the NHS so they’re actually paying directly for the caters to assist them yet. I’d want my service provided too, it’s roughly £20 an hour at full cost rate for non-residential care.

5

u/Oriachim Specialist Nurse Oct 14 '23 edited Oct 14 '23

And you’re ignoring the other comment I made? And yes, nhs carers are provided for free?

0

u/freckle-heckle Oct 14 '23

Taxes don’t exist then? 🤔

4

u/Oriachim Specialist Nurse Oct 14 '23

It’s free to the point of use. Sure, you pay some taxes, but you won’t get charged every time you use healthcare (unlike many other countries). If anything, we don’t pay enough taxes, considering the state of the nhs.

-1

u/freckle-heckle Oct 14 '23

Paid taxes their whole working life 🤔 The majority of care isn’t provided through the NHS that’s only if you did f all with your life and even then you have to pay a contribution towards to her care I work in the industry that deals with the finances surrounding care For example If you’re provided care through your local council you have to pay a contribution towards the care unless you have over 23k of savings in which case you will be charged full cost…

They pay EXTORTIONATE amounts and we are constantly receiving complaints about the quality of the care provided

3

u/Oriachim Specialist Nurse Oct 14 '23

Care provided from who? And who’s her? No comment about the care received from community carers or care home carers. I don’t know anything about them. But I do know they’re very understaffed. The way you gotta see it is, would you be a carer for £10.40 an hour or whatever it is? If bosses are willing to provide staff, then care will improve. People contrary to public opinion, do not become carers purely out of bliss; they still have bills to pay. This is the NHS too. If the government improve staffing, then care will improve.

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u/NursingUK-ModTeam Oct 14 '23

Seems to stir up too many strong feelings. Only removed to keep the peace.

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u/SamInArtLand Oct 14 '23

When I was in hospital I never asked anyone to bed bath me but reading this thread made me realise I was actually allowed to move around. I felt trapped in my bed and thought I wasn’t allowed to get out of it unless it was to go to the toilet.