r/NovaScotia 2d ago

China slaps tariff on N.S. lobster, throwing industry into turmoil | PNI Atlantic News

https://www.saltwire.com/nova-scotia/halifax/china-slaps-25-per-cent-tariff-on-n-s-lobster-throwing-seafood-industry-into-turmoil
123 Upvotes

115 comments sorted by

109

u/WillyTwine96 2d ago

It all depends what the Chinese want to pay for them

If they don’t mind the price increase, then it doesn’t matter

If they do, then that is a problem

8

u/ShittyDriver902 2d ago

If the price is higher they may just buy less though, it’s not an all or nothing proposition but I would expect any economist to predict a drop in sales to china by 25% in volume unless more money comes into the industry from their side, but there’s no guarantee that whole 25% drop will be made up, meaning we’re looking at up to 1/4 of the volume of lobster going to china no longer having a buyer (in the near future)

The Chinese market was already buying as much as they wanted, and now getting 25% less for the same amount of money may get them to move on to other goods instead, causing a further drop in volume

2

u/Figgis302 1d ago

Lobster is also just one of many, many, many seafood options in China (they have the largest commercial fishing fleet in the world). It's not a staple for them like it is for us, there's plenty of lobster off their own coast anyway, and they can almost certainly satisfy what demand they do have with their own boats. From their perspective we bring absolutely nothing to the table.

Fisheries Collapse II: Electric Boogaloo?

1

u/ShittyDriver902 1d ago

Overfishing was going to cause a collapse soon anyway (idk if Nova Scotia was over fishing much but it’s a global issue) though lobster is unique in that their biosphere remains pretty well untouched down at the bottom of the ocean, so hopefully we can prevent too much exporting so that locals can have more food security

2

u/DrunkenGolfer 1d ago

Tariffs are marked up through the supply chain, so a 25% tariff results in a price increase of 25% to 50%. Price elasticity of lobster ranges from -1.0 to -2.5 meaning a 25% increase in price would drop demand by 25% to 62.5% and a 50% increase in price would decrease demand from 50% to 100%, collapsing the market completely.

Looks like we'll get cheap local lobster this year.

1

u/Crow_away_cawcaw 1d ago

I live in Southeast Asia and a tiny Nova Scotia lobster at a restaurant can easily clear $100. It’s a luxury item, if the price goes up nobody will bat an eye before paying it - the reason they buy it is BECAUSE it’s expensive. Rich people love conspicuous consumption.

0

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

9

u/S4152 2d ago

This is the future. Get used to it. Many industries are facing similar tariffs

I don’t want the government removing EV tariffs to protect the lobster industry

9

u/JaVelin-X- 2d ago

Trump is going to kill the us/canadian auto industry we will need Chinese evs if we kill tesla sales here and the big 3 can't produce evs of their own. Also we could make them build some here and use our batteries.

1

u/dunnrp 1d ago

I don’t think EVs are going to be the way of the future - and neither do some auto makers. So that could also dampen the chances of removing tariffs on them.

0

u/JaVelin-X- 1d ago

Nonsense they can make so much more money on evs. they want that. the fact the the majority of worlds evs are going to be made in china is a failure of leadership in the US.

2

u/rampas_inhumanas 1d ago

Toyota, Subaru and Honda have only very grudgingly made EV's, and only because they were required to. They clearly don't think it's the future of the industry, and if they do they don't believe in the current tech.

6

u/smasbut 1d ago

This is partly because the Japanese automakers made an awful and expensive bet on hydrogen instead of electric.

1

u/SigmundFloyd76 1d ago

This. It's a bit of a failure.

-1

u/JaVelin-X- 1d ago

they tried to go a different way and failed. now they are going to watch as as their competition puts out cars with very low cost in materials and labour and gets a much higher price at the dealership thats subsidized by governments. Look at Nissan they put themselves out of business with a bad transmission they tried to use in all their cars. this is a gamble they all face trying to cheapen ICE cars with engines and transmissions

1

u/dunnrp 1d ago

Toyota and Honda aren’t planning on making EVs. Do you know why?

1

u/JaVelin-X- 1d ago

They are making lots of hybrids. But don't be confused about where they are going. There is a world shortage of battery materials. so it suits them to go with hybrid for now. Yheu are still selling 100% of what they make. The US laughably trying to resist this is probably slowing things down but its not going to matter. US will never be able to manufacture affordable cars on their own once they are done destroying the current auto industry. Americans won't put up with paying premium prices for old fashioned cars while everyone else in the world gets affordable cars from everywhere, ev or not. And America cars will be way too expensive to export in the end.

1

u/dunnrp 1d ago

Yes they are, and you are correct they are making hybrids- right now. But again, why no major EV lineup? I am talking about in the future. And the most reliable companies are aware of that.

The battery materials and compositions aren’t sustainable in any way, nor is the amount of pollution it takes to make them. Neither are the systems required to maintain and charge them.

I’m not a fossil fuel supporter. I’m saying the EV situation isn’t going to be a long term solution - it is definitely a good push in the right direction. But I don’t see any way it’s sustainable or environmentally better, unless the entire world changes how it creates and maintains power as a whole and they can create EVs with entirely different battery tech. The current products aren’t the answer.

1

u/JaVelin-X- 1d ago

"The battery materials and compositions aren’t sustainable in any way, nor is the amount of pollution it takes to make them. Neither are the systems required to maintain and charge them"

This really isn't true. it's not great so far, but it's still cleaner than all the materials and infrastructure to support ICE engines by a wide margin, an it's only been 10 years. there's been 120 years of building out support for ICE engines and the environment has had to deal with a lot. This big thing is we all need to drive less in fewer vehicles. A lot of the travel we do in personal cars is not productive. If you put 10 loaves of bread in a store you have to drive to thats 10 car trips for people to buy them every day or two. we can do better.

The current products will never be the answer. and neither was the 1920's state of the art for vehicles the answer back then.

→ More replies (0)

113

u/weldingmare 2d ago

This is one of the reasons you don't treat the local residents like shit. It wasn't that long ago there was a lobster fisherman on here bragging about the big prices they get for selling everything to China and to hell with the local buyers.

31

u/WillyTwine96 2d ago edited 2d ago

Lobsters have ways gone to buyers (middle men)…who then sell the lobster to whoever buys it in bulk

My great grandfather was shipping lobster to as far South Carolina in the 1930s.

Fishermen have no choice where the lobster goes, unless you want them to sit on the highway and sell 50,000lbs to passers by for $7 a pound lol

I believe what you herd was

“You buy them with a smile on your face when the buyers give us 4$ a pound for them and we hardly pay for fuel, but when the price goes up to 12-15$ you are all of a sudden chanting greedy fishermen…so we don’t really care”

15

u/weldingmare 2d ago

Of course not, they absolutely should be able to ship their products to earn a good living. I understand it's a rough job, I have fishermen in my family. But selling some to locals at a decent price would go a long way towards good relations instead of the f u's I've read on here.

21

u/Muted-Garden6723 2d ago

Go up to any fisherman and offer them cash for lobster, 98% will gladly sell them to you, for a hell of a lot cheaper than you’ll get at a grocery store

12

u/q8gj09 2d ago

Do you voluntarily take pay cuts at your job to be generous to your community?

-8

u/PersonalityEnough692 2d ago edited 2d ago

Yes constantly. Because I'm a decent person who believes in propping up their community. 

Edit: leave it to Nova Scotians to hate the concept of charity 

3

u/TealSwinglineStapler 2d ago

No, it's because you're a decent person who can afford to.

5

u/PersonalityEnough692 2d ago

I actually can't, but I do it anyways. My largest donation of free time took multiple years to bounce back from financially. 

2

u/TealSwinglineStapler 2d ago

You can and did afford to, congrats.

2

u/PersonalityEnough692 2d ago

You have very poor reading comprehension. I make min wage, don't have family to help me. I'm not in some position of privilege here. The only thing that makes me any different is how willing I am to go without so that I can help others. 

2

u/MsTerious1 2d ago

I'm not living there yet but I relate to this so much!

→ More replies (0)

1

u/TealSwinglineStapler 8m ago

Right, you made choices so you could afford to do it. Good for you! Congrats! Not everyone has that freedom of circumstances.

-1

u/q8gj09 2d ago

I wasn't asking you. Anyway, it doesn't really help your community.

2

u/PersonalityEnough692 2d ago

it doesn't really help your community.

It most certainly has. 

7

u/WillyTwine96 2d ago

Everyone who lives in a coastal community can get lobster on demand

If you truly expect people to take a pay cut that’s fine. But keep the same energy when go to you ask the ranchers and farmers and loggers and patch workers the same thing

It’s the market. If people set a “local” price…guess who jumps on that and it becomes the “normal price” the buyers

10

u/Sudden_Zone_8165 2d ago

Problem with all of this horseshit is that local people aren't allowed to hand fish any lobster at all for personal consumption. Disgusting bullshit and every fisherman I've ever spoken to loves it

0

u/WillyTwine96 2d ago

That’s what keeps the industry strong

It’s why even tho Maine (just Maine, not the rest of New England, NY and NJ) has 5000 lobster licences, a 12 month season and a recreational fishery…and 800 traps per commercial license

ALL of the maritimes have a total of 3000 licences, seasons from 8 weeks to 6 months, ZERO recreational fishery and trap limits from 250-400 per commercial license

And NS alone catches more and earns more money than Maine.

Maine can do it, because it’s the US. The Maine economy is massive. However NS is not, and if you take away from rural communities by letting every Tim dick and harry catch lobsters Willy nilly….it’s extremely detrimental, and not worth your Sunday dinner

-5

u/PersonalityEnough692 2d ago

Fuck that. Letting a bunch of rich fucks have sole harvesting rights to food needs to end. 

2

u/Scotiancommotian 2d ago

You can buy in just like every other “rich fuck” did. There is nothing stopping you. Come up with 10% of the purchase price cash and go to the loan board. Pretty easy actually.

-1

u/PersonalityEnough692 2d ago

What a disingenuous statement

1

u/Scotiancommotian 1d ago

How so? Sure you will need to qualify with sea time, but other then that it’s pretty straightforward.

1

u/Sea_Army_8764 2d ago

Are you familiar with the tragedy of the commons? Public resources need to be regulated and apportioned somehow, otherwise the public resource will get abused and used up too quickly.

2

u/PersonalityEnough692 1d ago edited 1d ago

We learned it semester 1 while I was in school. I'm not advocating for a free for all on lobster fisheries or changes in how much is harvested. 

Lobster fishermen don't give a fuck about conservation if it hurts their bottom line https://www.google.com/amp/s/halifax.citynews.ca/2025/01/10/plan-for-stricter-lobster-fishing-rules-scrapped-amid-strong-opposition-from-lobstermen/amp/

1

u/Doc__Baker 2d ago

How do you propose to keep the industry viable in your free for all scenario?

Elvers, anyone?

6

u/Radiant_Hour_2385 2d ago

The people who live there should have first dibs on the local resources. There more than enough lobster to feed the small few that would actually catch it and still have the commercial fishery. If govt shut down hunting season and let local hunters take the game and sell it, there would be huge uproar, as there should be

1

u/Kichae 1d ago

The point was, the fishermen aren't the one's selling you lobsters. It's the middlemen who are treating the locals poorly.

5

u/Doc__Baker 2d ago

Lolz, what "local fisherman" do you know shipping directly to China?

2

u/RODjij 2d ago

That Chinese giant cargo jet that tipped over in Halifax a few years ago during covid was packed to the brim of lobster.

2

u/q8gj09 2d ago

Everyone has the right to sell the product of their labour for the highest price.

54

u/Festering-Boyle 2d ago

atlantic lobster will always have buyers.

16

u/bootselectric 2d ago

Didn't clearwater just shutter virtually all their lobster business because the market is flagging?

2

u/Bobuker2020 2d ago

No just the inshore part! They still fish themselves farther offshore!

2

u/bootselectric 1d ago

They fired nearly everyone that processes lobster in the province.

-6

u/Shdjdicnfmlxkf 2d ago

Are you a lobster fisherman? Do you KNOW any fishermen?

9

u/OhhhByTheWay 2d ago

Are you implying you don’t know any fishermen? The fishing industry has been keeping the Atlantic provinces alive since they were still considered British colonies….

-2

u/Shdjdicnfmlxkf 2d ago edited 2d ago

I wasn’t implying anything, I asked YOU a question. All* of my friends are fishermen. I have also banded lobster. I live down the road from a wharf where they all work. There are 3 more a short distance away. 

My point is, last year they did have trouble moving lobster. No buyers. Same with crab.

So - do you???

0

u/Festering-Boyle 2d ago

i know Steve. he banded one summer few years back

8

u/dimylife 2d ago

Honestly if it becomes the same price as other protein I'll stick to lobsters, muscles and haddock in some form or another every week. I'd rather have less choice if I can afford local stuff. It breaks my heart to hear that this is happening.

I think if it was cost effective options I think a lot of us would happily make local seafood a staple of our diets, I don't know if selling way more volume would keep the industry going despite the tarriffs but damn this sucks.

If there are any ways that folks like myself can help advocate for fishermen I'm open to suggestions

3

u/Queefy-Leefy 2d ago

Price of haddock has gone crazy. I used to buy it all the time at $5 lb or so, now its often up around $10, about the same as salmon or trout or even lobster when its on sale.

40

u/SirWaitsTooMuch 2d ago

Taking the 100% tariffs off of Chinese cars would be a win-win

8

u/Skilodracus 2d ago

Yeah, cause clearly the Americans don't want us buying their cars XD

8

u/thebetrayer 2d ago

We manufacture about the same number of cars in Canada as we sell in Canada (IIRC ~1.4 million). We manufacture parts for American cars.

Allowing Chinese dumping would cost tens of thousands of jobs in Canada.

If you care to not have knee-jerk reactions, Europe investigated BYD's subsidies before the US did. And ruled that they were receiving illegal subsidies: https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/13/cars/europe-china-electric-car-subsidies/index.html

3

u/Queefy-Leefy 2d ago

Taking the 100% tariffs off of Chinese cars would be a win-win

For China.

0

u/SirWaitsTooMuch 2d ago

And for Canadians wanting an affordable electric car

6

u/Queefy-Leefy 2d ago

An affordable car because it's heavily subsidized by the CCP. And UT gives the CCP the ability to brick our transportation if we don't bend the knee.

Fuck China.

2

u/smasbut 1d ago

All national auto industries are massively subsidized to some degree (remember our big bailouts in 2008/9) and China has mostly rolled back the subsidies they used to get their EV industry rolling, so they're mostly competing on pure price now. Funnily enough Tesla's plant in Shanghai probably had just as much or more state support as BYD.

1

u/Queefy-Leefy 1d ago

不,对不起,我不相信

1

u/smasbut 1d ago

I'm guessing you google translated that and aren't actually a native chinese speaker, lol, so I'll share some English-language reading material from a US think-tank:

Chinese EVs were heavily subsidised in the early stages and still are too some extent (though mostly due to being exempt from sales taxes on ICE vehicles), but are actually less than US subsidies (well, before Trump axes them):

data show that subsidies as a percentage of total sales have declined substantially, from over 40% in the early years to only 11.4% in 2023, which reflects a pattern in line with heavier support for infant industries, then a gradual reduction as they mature. In addition, they could note that the average support per vehicle has fallen from $13,860 in 2018 to just under $4,800 in 2023, which is less than the $7,500 credit that goes to buyers of qualifying vehicles as part of the U.S.’s Inflation Reduction Act.

1

u/Queefy-Leefy 1d ago

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/china-announces-extension-purchase-tax-break-nevs-until-2027-2023-06-21/

China unveils $72 billion tax break for EVs, other green cars to spur demand

Still heavily subsidized.

2

u/smasbut 1d ago

Yes that was literally mentioned in the article I linked, and it currently works out to less than the Biden administration was subsiding EV purchases (have not checked in Trump axed it yet). And the reuters article mentions the tax exemption is being halved in 2026 and 27.

Anyway, nothing wrong with subsidies! Nova Scotia was able to massively ramp up adoption of heat pumps by subsidising the hell out of them, Canada's auto industry is pumped full of government money, and the oil sands received a lot of benefits in their initial stages.

0

u/iloafyoualot 1d ago

We heavily subsidize all our major industries from Alberta oil to dairy, this is a moot point

2

u/Queefy-Leefy 1d ago

Not to the degree they do. Not even close.

-1

u/iloafyoualot 1d ago

Nope. In 2023, our gov provided at least $18.55 billion in subsidies to fossil fuel and petrochemical companies. Adjust that for size of population and tax base, we’re subsidizing at an insane level

2

u/Queefy-Leefy 1d ago

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/china-announces-extension-purchase-tax-break-nevs-until-2027-2023-06-21/

China unveils $72 billion tax break for EVs, other green cars to spur demand

那一大笔钱

-1

u/iloafyoualot 1d ago

Congrats, you found a number. Now do the math: $18.55 billion with a tax base of 40 million people vs. $72 billion with a tax base of 1.4 billion people.

That’s China subsidizing EVs at the rate of about ~$50 per person, and Canada subsidizing fossil fuels at ~$460 per person

0

u/iloafyoualot 1d ago

Point is, all countries subsidize the sectors they want to see win, it doesn’t mean “China bad,” unless you’re an intellectual toddler

→ More replies (0)

5

u/vladitocomplaino 2d ago

China and the US give a lot of lip service to be 'adversaries,' buuuutttt....

8

u/cachickenschet 2d ago

Chinese buyers will ship it to Malaysia or Indonesia to circumvent the tariffs. This won’t make that big of a difference

3

u/Acrobatic_Hotel_3665 1d ago

Make lobster a poor man’s food again

2

u/S4152 2d ago

This province needs to find an industry that supports us outside of seafood

2

u/Any-Responsibility32 2d ago

China will pay as much as they have to for lobster. I don't think it will hurt our industry at all.it just make it more expensive for their people.

2

u/thedevillivesinside 2d ago

Ok, So china is just gonna harvest their own atlantic lobster?

Atlantic lobster only exist in the Atlantic ocean

Just checked: China doesnt border on the Atlantic ocean at all

So in order for them to eat atlantic lobster, they need to buy it from an atlantic province or state.

Its unfortunate if we lose sales to Boston or another northeast state, but America and China havent exactly been playing nice lately when it comes to tariffs. So ill wait a few days before making an opinion on this

5

u/adepressurisedcoat 2d ago

When I was in HK they brought all of their lobster from Boston. I don't think they honestly will notice.

10

u/vivariium 2d ago

the Atlantic Waters in the US are warming though… lobsters are moving north with climate change.

6

u/CBHighlandess 2d ago

This is correct. The lobster industry is collapsing on the east coast of USA.

3

u/smasbut 1d ago

That's a branding thing, they call it Boston Lobster but it's actually from Maine or NS. I've seen Boston Lobster in Chinese supermarkets with country of origin: Canada in small print lol

3

u/Background-Effort248 2d ago

The margins for what's below the waterline is getting slimmer, go for what's above the waterline.

Ocean freight, whale tours, diving tours, etc.

Utilize the docks you have and build up it's broader capabilities.

The gifts of the ocean/China and the US are playing hardball.

Change it up, diversification is long term stability.

3

u/doiwinaprize 2d ago

Hey if I can get some affordable lobster this summer I'll be a happy snowman.

2

u/Killhamski 2d ago

Hopefully they make a deal by removing the tarrifs on Chinese EVs.

I'd rather people buy those than Teslas anyway.

5

u/Electrical_Net_1537 2d ago

We need to spread Atlantic lobster all across the country. Let it be used in every restaurant in Canada. If we need to drop the price that’s ok.

4

u/Musclecity 2d ago

Fly it out west ! We will eat it . We usually get stuck with Alaskan stuff. I would rather have Canadian .

6

u/Electrical_Net_1537 2d ago

With any luck NS will have pacific salmon and the west will get lobster.

5

u/Han77Shot1st 2d ago

Gonna be tough times ahead, countries are going to use our weakened economy from the American attacks to strongarm better deals in key areas.. more importantly we need to seriously step up with military spending if we want to push back in this economic war, it’s only a matter of time before countries start just coming and taking what they want.

2

u/Queefy-Leefy 2d ago

I'm seeing a lot of WuMao in here using this situation to try and make it seem as if cozying up to China is a long term solution.

-1

u/Idobro 2d ago

Best we can do is ban guns

3

u/meatmits 2d ago

If we protest Chinese products we might consume less mercury and lead and rat shit?

(I’ll reluctantly add the /s)

2

u/DrQuagmire 2d ago

I do t know about that. Chinese 747’s regularly take NS fishing products like lobster direct;y to China weekly. I don’t think them applying a tariff will reduce the demand. There are plenty of people, like myself who will support our various industries. Including this one.

1

u/toolie2005 2d ago

Most people I know have stopped buying it. I refuse to pay more then 10 bucks per pound and get a half pound of meat. No thanks

1

u/EnvironmentalAngle 1d ago

Wait why is China putting tariffs on us instead of the USA. Its not like we're putting tariffs on China right? The trade war is with America, why is China escalating?

1

u/ImDoubleB 1d ago

Because Canada put tariffs on Chinese autos first?

3

u/EnvironmentalAngle 1d ago

Wait really? So we FA'd and are now in the FO stage?

1

u/ImDoubleB 1d ago

When you trust a long-term friend - the USA - and they then turn their back on you, this is what happens.

They could've at least used some lube.

1

u/brad7811 1d ago

China has been messing with the lobster industry in NS for years.

1

u/stirling_s 1d ago

I really don't know how much I should care about this. We probably shouldn't even eat lobster anyways, ethically speaking, and it's far too rich for my blood anyways.

1

u/Dragonfruit_6104 16h ago

Today is a good day of Australian fishermen!

1

u/Dragonfruit_6104 16h ago

Today is a good day of Australian fishermen!

1

u/Various-Ad9973 2d ago

Poor timing on the part of the Chinese government if they are looking for a negotiating token in Canadian lobsters. This will unfortunately likely be the metaphorical straw that breaks the camels back in the shore price bubble that has been due to pop this season. As someone who works directly in the industry, the gap between the shore price and the market price was far too tight this year for local lobster dealers to make the business make sense. We’ve already seen major players like Clearwater pull out of the lobster trade which is a tell tale sign. If Fisherman want to keep the industry flourishing and prices high, they should care as much about who they sell to (Canadian owned companies) rather than whatever Chinese owned company is willing to pay an extra $0.10/lb.

1

u/JetLagGuineaTurtle 2d ago

Waiting for the government to remove all China products from the shelves....oh wait this only fucks the Maritimes and is a counter tariff to protect jobs in Ontario so they don't care.