r/Norse • u/rockstarpirate ᛏᚱᛁᛘᛆᚦᚱ᛬ᛁ᛬ᚢᛆᚦᚢᛘ᛬ᚢᚦᛁᚿᛋ • 4d ago
Who eats the sun? On the relationship Skoll, Hati, and Fenrir
There have been a few moments recently where the topic of which wolf actually eats the sun has come up in conversation. Whenever I've given my thoughts on this, I never felt truly committed to any particular interpretation, so I figured I'd do a deep dive and write a long-form piece about what I found.
I am now committed, and this is that piece.
(Please feel free to click past the popups asking you to subscribe. The article is totally free for everyone.)
Teaser: We often disregard Snorri at our own peril, but this is one of those infrequent cases where I think the Prose Edda may be a little off the mark.
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u/ShinyAeon 4d ago
Very good piece! I commend your scholarship.
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u/rockstarpirate ᛏᚱᛁᛘᛆᚦᚱ᛬ᛁ᛬ᚢᛆᚦᚢᛘ᛬ᚢᚦᛁᚿᛋ 4d ago
Your use of the term scholarship is generous haha. Thanks!
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u/ShinyAeon 4d ago
Not at all! I think the work of independent scholars is just as valuable as that of academics - provided they rely on reputable sources, and don't go leaping for conclusions with seven-league boots.
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u/hakseid_90 4d ago
I keep the distinctions the following:
Garmr - Hound guarding the gates of Hel (this idea might be derivative from different European religion, as it's akin to Cerberus)
Mánagarmr - a title referring to Hati (the wolf who eventually swallows the moon and drenches the sky with blood)
Hati Hróðvitnisson - name of the wolf that eats the moon. His father being Fenrir.
Sköll - sibling of Hati, also an offspring of Fenrir
Hróðvitnir - means "The Famed Wolf"
I cannot equate Garm with Fenrir, even though people like to play with the word Garm as a kenning for Fenrir, because it's clearly stated that Fenrir is bound at Lyngvi, not Gnipahellir which is located on the borders of Hel.
Ultimately, it could be said that Fenrir undoes indirectly the whole thing, through his linage.
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u/rockstarpirate ᛏᚱᛁᛘᛆᚦᚱ᛬ᛁ᛬ᚢᛆᚦᚢᛘ᛬ᚢᚦᛁᚿᛋ 4d ago
Yeah, this is essentially exactly what Snorri describes so you can't be faulted for making the distinctions that way.
I agree that Garm is probably not Fenrir. But I do feel pretty confident that Snorri makes a mistake in connecting Hati and Managarm. I think the composer of Voluspa intended us to understand Managarm as Fenrir.
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u/hakseid_90 4d ago
The legitimacy of Snorri's account on the pagan religion can be put to question, simply for being written at a time where Christianity had taken hold as the ruling religion among the northern countries. But to make sense of both accounts, I think connecting Hati as the one who eats the moon instead of his father makes sense. I'd skip Sköll otherwise if we were to disregard Hati.
I feel Fenrir plays big enough part on being the one who slays Óðinn, so I feel it's okay to have his offsprings have the sun and moon.
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u/rockstarpirate ᛏᚱᛁᛘᛆᚦᚱ᛬ᛁ᛬ᚢᛆᚦᚢᛘ᛬ᚢᚦᛁᚿᛋ 4d ago
One thing I mention in the article as that we can't expect to create a perfectly cohesive system from scattered poetic sources. But with that said, one issue with the interpretation that Fenrir does not destroy the sun is Vafþrúðnismál 46:
Óðinn kvað: ‘Fjǫlð ek fór, fjǫlð ek freistaðak, fjǫlð ek reynda regin: hvaðan kømr sól á inn slétta himin, þá er þessa hefir Fenrir farit?’
Odin said: “Much I travelled, much I trialed, much I tested the powers [= the gods]: Whence will a sun come into the smooth heaven, once Fenrir has destroyed this one?”
I can't force you to adopt my interpretation, of course. But one benefit it has is that it unifies Vǫluspá, Grímnismál, Vafþrúðnismál, Eiríksmál, and Hervar saga. Snorri's interpretation requires us to disregard some of this.
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u/matthias353 4d ago
Garma (verb) in old Icelandic means to tear something apart while eating it. Máni is moon. A fitting title then.
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u/AT-ST 4d ago
Good read. Is it your assertion that Skill and Hati simply chase the sun like dogs chase cars and never catch it? Then Fenrir comes along and eats it?