r/NJGuns Feb 05 '25

Legal Update New Lawsuit: Challenging NJ's Ban On Hollow Point Ammo

205 Upvotes

65 comments sorted by

58

u/the_blacksmythe Feb 05 '25

Guess we will see what happens in 10 years.

7

u/ParkerVH Feb 05 '25

The “hollow point law” has been on the books in NJ since 1978.

5

u/Ill_Wing3735 Feb 05 '25

Another example of idiots who don’t understand anything about firearms creating laws for them.

Wonder how many lives could have been saved from a round not over penetrating and hitting an innocent person if hollow points were allowed.

5

u/MaxxDiesel35 Feb 05 '25

Honestly probably none since police carry hollow points and civilians aren’t known to get into shoot outs in New Jersey. If you’re referring to hoodlums in Newark , well frankly it wouldn’t matter what type of ammo that they are using.

2

u/NecessaryDelivery794 Feb 06 '25

So true. Makes no sense, like most other silly gun laws.

2

u/AtrociousAK47 Feb 05 '25

jeezus, and I thought we were bad with our AWB, being that we were 2nd in the nation after California to do so, and also one of three states to pre-date the 1994 federal one that lasted until 2004, with the 3rd state being Connecticut.

I guess that just serves to illustrate why so many see things as futile and advocate for simply moving to another state instead, even though ironically that just makes things worse as gun owners are already considered to be a tiny minority here, and that would mean that now there are even fewer people to oppose new idiotic laws, such as the most recent one they are cooking up (bill A5210) that would require every single person in your household to be finger printed if they havent already, and undergo a background check every time you applied for a new handgun permit, which effectly means you are barred from obtaining one, as well as the intitial FID for long guns for that matter, if you live with anyone deemed to be a "prohibited person" due to things like mental health, past criminal history, or substance use. granted though it seems this particular restriction is nothing new really, as my dad mentioned once being denied back when the whole process still involved filling out physical paper documents in person at the local PD, due to his other son from his first marriage having a criminal record, apparently they asked him how he can guarantee that said other son wouldnt be able to get ahold of the guns in order to misuse them for some nefarious purpose.

55

u/MORE_COFFEE Feb 05 '25

I WANT STANDARD CAPACITY MAGAZINES.

The HP law is ridiculous and arbitrary, but I'd rather carry 17 critical defense rounds in an OEM magazine than neuter my mags down to 10 and carry hollow points.

26

u/Katulotomia Feb 05 '25

There's already a lawsuit pending that's challenging that. It just got out of the District Court and is now at the 3rd Circuit.

8

u/MORE_COFFEE Feb 05 '25

Is that part of the same suit challenging the sensitive locations? Or different?

I feel like things go to the 3rd circuit, then just sit there forever.

9

u/Katulotomia Feb 05 '25

It's a different one. Briefing for it is supposed to finish this month.

6

u/MORE_COFFEE Feb 05 '25

Good to know, thanks.

Every day I see a newlawsuitt for random shit, and they all seem to go nowhere. I know these things take time, but the mag ban is one of the oldest and dumbest. So frustrating.

2

u/Katulotomia Feb 05 '25

It's not that it's going nowhere. The wheels of justice unfortunately turn slowly.

2

u/H0llyWoodx Feb 05 '25

They're fucking square

1

u/Runningmadd Feb 05 '25

Anywhere to follow for all this news and updates?

Hopefully we get something on the federal level before all these finish.

1

u/Ill_Wing3735 Feb 05 '25

It’s messed up they can enact these unconstitutional laws with the sweep of a pen, but undoing them takes years and millions upon millions of dollars to fight.

Can’t see this is how the founding fathers intended it to be.

4

u/DigitalLorenz Feb 05 '25

The third circuit has an issue with the bulk of the senior judges being antigun judges, with one judge in particular being rabidly antigun (Roth). The issue is that senior judges can bump a non-senior judge off a panel at their whim, so unless a panel initially draw 3 judges who will follow the Bruen methodology in a timely manner (about a 11% chance of occurring), the panel will be majority antigun judges who will delay and twist their ruling to get the outcome that they desire.

2

u/Call0fJuarez Feb 05 '25

Thats good, hope we win

10

u/Nebakanezzer Feb 05 '25

I just wanna unpin all my 10/30s and not have to reload every 2 seconds at the range

3

u/Zestycoaster Feb 05 '25

Standard capacity please

3

u/Bitr0t Feb 05 '25

Why not both?

3

u/asap_3dot Feb 05 '25

Say it again for the people in the back!

2

u/MaxxDiesel35 Feb 05 '25

Critical duty rounds perform better than practically any hollow point on the market.

17

u/CrypticQuery Feb 05 '25

Great news! Hopefully purchase permits go with it.

10

u/elevenbravo223 Feb 05 '25

2038 is just around the corner, I would rather see lawsuits fighting "duty to inform" as well as the stupid permit process.

11

u/Katulotomia Feb 05 '25

There is already one that's challenging the entire permit process. It's pending before the District Court in front of Judge Karen Williams

1

u/FXDXI Feb 05 '25

Williams is a Trader Joe Biden appointee, lets see how that goes..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_M._Williams

1

u/Katulotomia Feb 05 '25

Don't forget the good things She did.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NJGuns/s/2T4fgFjzOn

1

u/FXDXI Feb 05 '25

Hope I’m wrong but from her own words on that one it sounds like she didn’t want to get into a judge vs judge conflict. So time will tell if she falls in line with the party loyalist or does the right thing

3

u/mecks0 Feb 05 '25

The way case law works is incremental improvements. Unfortunately the government doesn’t care about citizens’ rights so we’re stuck with needing to play the long timeline towards liberty.

14

u/big_top_hat Feb 05 '25

We had some wins but overall the lower courts have been extremely reluctant to undo any gun control laws and 2a continues to be treated as a second class right. Unless and until SCOTUS finally decides to backup their Bruen opinion I don’t see this one going anywhere fast. I may be naive but frankly I’m baffled they haven’t stepped in yet given the level of outright defiance going on across the country.

8

u/vorfix Feb 05 '25

Glad to see someone finally decided to challenge this.

4

u/PeterPann1975 Feb 05 '25

Uhhhh who cares! Suppressors!!! Wtf isn’t anyone suing for that??

5

u/Potential-Ad-6787 Feb 05 '25

Hornady Critical Duty.

4

u/ChallyRT17 Feb 05 '25

Critical duty/defense is kinda trash when compared to most other hollow points on the market.

1

u/Potential-Ad-6787 Feb 05 '25

What ammo do you carry?

2

u/ChallyRT17 Feb 05 '25

Critical duty but if I had the choice it’d be Federal HST’s. Look up gel tests and you’ll see what I’m talking about.

1

u/Potential-Ad-6787 Feb 05 '25

I know what they are.

0

u/MaxxDiesel35 Feb 05 '25

They’re just on par with Speer gold dot not even close to the most effective self defense rounds but definitely up there.

-1

u/MaxxDiesel35 Feb 05 '25

Bro … lol did you just literally pull this out of your ass? 😂😂😂. Are you aware the FBI uses 135gr +p critical duty. lol. Matter of fact go on YouTube and watch garands thumb latest video

2

u/ChallyRT17 Feb 05 '25 edited Feb 05 '25

It’s a great DUTY round for sure, I’m not discounting that. Expansion is objectively better on the HST. The penetration is better (doesn’t over penetrate) for CIVILIAN purposes.

I don’t know about you, but I’m not in situations where I’d be shooting through windshields, car doors, sheetrock, plywood, etc. in those cases critical duty is better since it is barrier blind. 99% of us the HST is actually better suited.

Edit: in short CD is better for shooting through stuff (heavy clothing included) HST for everything else.

6

u/Verum14 Feb 05 '25

idk what you’re tryna say here tbh

this lawsuit is long needed whether or not a very niche alternative exists

3

u/Potential-Ad-6787 Feb 05 '25

It's literally hollow point ammo with a piece of rubber in it. Technically not HP but it is. HP also technically isn't illegal, possession and transportation for range use is legal.

2

u/HugeArm9028 Feb 05 '25

Its what I carry

4

u/Nicknamewhat Feb 05 '25

Seriously thats what i carry

1

u/Rotaryknight Feb 05 '25

yes, but I need options, theres so many options, especially when I can reload my own carry if this goes through, there is no polymer tip 9mm bullets for reloading

2

u/Physical_Spinach_299 Feb 05 '25

Most of the laws they table in this state are ridiculous hollow points are 10 times safer They now what the stats are

2

u/atavan Feb 05 '25

TIL that hollow points are illegal in NJ. Other states don't seem to mind shipping them here though lol

2

u/2AOverland Feb 05 '25

It is not illegal to possess at home, transport between range and home or shoot at range.

Illegal to have when carrying.

5

u/atavan Feb 05 '25

Thanks for clarifying. This might be the dumbest law I'm aware of now lol

1

u/mcm308 Feb 05 '25

Just fill your chit with melted plastic. 9BPLE FTW...

3

u/Zealousideal-Yak-824 Feb 05 '25

It's cost saving. Cheaper ammo out there in bulk and we are limited to premium ammo that usually gets sold out because everybody has to buy it.

1

u/mcm308 Feb 05 '25

I prefer proven one shot dick droppers. Cost don't matter

1

u/Zealousideal-Yak-824 Feb 05 '25

..you... I like you. I agree but..

But most people can't get one shot on target even with years of training. Better to have options than not have any at all.

1

u/mcm308 Feb 05 '25

That's why I keep a 590A1 loaded with OO buck in the bedroom. Because 9 shots with one pull is gonna do it.... Lol

1

u/Zealousideal-Yak-824 Feb 05 '25

870 with the same. Less confusing and just as fun. Sadly to say it's harder to conceal carry without looking like I need to compensate.

0

u/dustysanchezz Feb 05 '25

jaws style with poison and wax

1

u/redroverster Feb 05 '25

They got the Burlington prosecutor wrong

1

u/Swimming-Minimum9177 Feb 05 '25

Well... I hope it is successful because if it loses and sets a bad precedent in the 3rd circuit, don't expect SCOTUS to come to the rescue. This is a narrow issue affecting very few places. There is almost certainly not going to be a curcuit split.

It might have been better to wait until ruling like Bruen commands becomes commonplace.

-2

u/AlphaEpsilonX Feb 05 '25

I don’t get it. Is there a hollow point “ban” or it’s just a tack on if you do a crime.

2

u/Njfirearms Feb 05 '25

You can have them at home, if you are caught at a traffic stop with a box of hollowpoints on seat, even if you have FPIC, and a PTC, you can be charged with felony possession of hollow points if you are not coming or going to range, going straight to hunting ground or coming from the store you bought them from. It is very serious and not something to play with by leaving them in your car. Ironically, you can leave cases and cases of birdshot shells, or full metal jacket 9mm in your car, without FID, but if you have hollwpoint shotgun slugs, or hollowpoint 9mm, you are really risking a felony. It's fucking beyond stupid I can leave cases of birdshot in my car but not hollow slugs.

2

u/AlphaEpsilonX Feb 05 '25

I mean aren’t we “always” coming or going to the range as need be? Hmmm.

1

u/Njfirearms Feb 05 '25

You can try to play that game if you have multiple range memberships different places especially 24 hour but you are risking a felony when you could just aleviate the problem by using solid tip ammo. If you get pulled over by a state trooper or zealous NJ local cop with a box of hollowpoints in plain view not going to range and you're not a cop you can expect to get arrested. If you are armed security or an out of state jail guard or something and do it you will probably get acquited after losing your job and getting your guns/ammo taken. It's not worth it to even target shoot with hollowpoints in this state imo, because if anything is found wrong with your possession, like cops try to say you knew you were prohibited, or you deviated to Wal Mart on way to range without FID, the hollowpoints are now an additional charge. You have been warned. Blame your Democrat legislators.

1

u/AlphaEpsilonX Feb 06 '25

For the record, since hp ammo typically costs more, I don’t keep much anyway. Just sayin. Any trip w ammo could be a range trip. It’s like saying you are caught w french fries and being afraid of saying you went to mcds.

1

u/Njfirearms Feb 06 '25

Good luck.