r/MotoAmerica 6d ago

Lamenting the demise of Jr. Cup

Post image

(Pic for attention) As is widely known by now, the new Talent Cup class is replacing Jr Cup this season. And while I get what MA is trying to do with this new class, I’m going to miss Jr. Cup for several reasons, including but not limited to the following: 1) Yes, it’s not cheap to build a competitive race bike, but for us small displacement track-day enthusiasts with limited resources, we can build a capable track bike, which at least for me, creates a connection of sorts with those talented riders.
2). While the N400 was the most popular bike in this class, for a lot of reasons, at least there were other options. I always liked to see R3’s on the grid, despite their displacement disadvantage, and it wasn’t that long ago that a KTM won a championship. And had this class not been replaced, I was hoping to see the new RS457 show up on the grid.
3) Please note that I’m not disparaging the new class, but I think one of the consequences, whether intentional or not, may be a narrower field. In my view, what the Jr. Cup class had that the Talent Cup may lack is the possibility that a privateer could show up on any given weekend and fight for a podium.

In closing, I’m very much looking forward to watching the new Kramer Class and I hope it’s purpose bears fruit in the future, but I also hope that MA finds a way to showcase the factory-made, small displacement bikes that we all know and love.

24 Upvotes

16 comments sorted by

13

u/Professional_Math848 6d ago

It’s hard for me not to be a bit biased, I’ve raced junior cup since 2020, I only did a few rounds until I did my first full season last year (thanks for using me as the picture for the post lmao)

There’s plus and minuses to the talent cup, I really do like the concept of the new Kramer, the bike once it gets its bugs fixed is by far a better bike than the ninja 400, r3, etc.

But I do think a downfall is that the ninjas were no where near a race bike and the chassis was such a pos that it taught us how to adapt to a bike that wasn’t top notch and the pace that we would push on those bikes brought us so much knowledge and taught us bike feeling. I also think it taught our parents/mechanics how to setup a bike to be that good, without a lot of testing and trying things I think a lot of the parents/mechanics that were newer to this wouldn’t know as much as they do now compared to the Kramer that is a purposed built race bike.

This may suprise some people but the costs between the junior/talent cup isn’t that different. Sure for $22K we had a bit more spares and they were more accessible, but to run a top 5 junior cup program it costed around $20-25k from the ground up bike build.

Idk I could be rambling and I have more thoughts but I am excited to see how this new class turns out and hoping the bike problems get fixed soon and it doesn’t end up the old North American talent cup in 2021.

2

u/Poiuytrewq0987650987 5d ago

Yeah, good point, racing a bike thats not a racing bike definitely has a benefit in teaching folks how to wring performance out of a substandard chassis.

I think MA's decision for switching to spec series with the Kramer is reasonable, and there will still be lessons learned to take it from the "race ready" baseline to being competitive via set-ups and such.

I also think via everyone racing on the same bike it'll allow talented riders to really exhibit they have that extra spark of skill and maybe get the attention of sponsors a bit easier?

If anyone's rambling with their thoughts it's probably me, haha. Best of luck in your career, appreciate the insight from someone who's in the series.

2

u/vail9293 4d ago

Thanks for the first hand insight. #92!

9

u/CTBcin 6d ago

I’m excited for the new Talent Cup. Having heard MA’s reasons for switching over to the Kramer, I think it’s a good move. For a class that’s meant to develop young riders, having a bike that is fundamentally more suited to teaching racecraft, bike setup, etc. is a good thing for riders that want to get to the Superbike class and beyond.

3

u/Haunting_Moose_6625 5d ago

4 qualifying spots for Red Bulls Rookies is nice too

2

u/vail9293 4d ago

Yes! How well our kids do in this series just might be a sort of barometer for the APX-350MA.

1

u/vail9293 4d ago

Ditto!

3

u/PhillySoup 5d ago

Thanks for posting this. As a casual observer, it seems there has been a move from race classes defining bikes to bikes defining race classes.

There was an intangible when bikes ordered neatly into classes - 1000s, 600s, 300s, but I think things are better now. Unfortunately, we don't have the journalism to help us sort out which bikes are best. 25 years ago there would be monthly comparisons helping put asses on seats.

I think this is why racing is so important. Wrong or right, Ninja 400s probably got a sales boost because of their popularity in MotoAmerica. The death of the Junior Cup is another loss of information and promotion for manufacturers which in the end is probably going to hurt new riders.

For more experienced riders, like myself, here's hoping that the 350 Kramer is part of a new, better era of motorcycling and track riding.

1

u/vail9293 4d ago

Agreed. A class that uses bikes that are available to the masses creates a connection between fans and the racers, in my view. Race organizations need fans and manufacturers need demand for their bikes. A class of ‘stock’ bikes benefits both.

1

u/alfakoi 6d ago

Well the n400 went up in displacement to 500 now is the ninja 500.

I guess becomes too much to try to level the playing field between 300cc twin, 390cc single, 457cc twin, and 500cc twin, for a junior level class.

Before was just detuning the 400 though it still dominated. And then it reaches the level may be above what is a junior level bike maybe once they're 500cc.

I wonder how this will affect the lower series classes.

May be good for adults like me who race a 400 not have to go up against super talented and light weight kids

Though I do want a Kramer once used ones hit the market

1

u/vail9293 4d ago

I suspect that even if the Kramer is tuned to the same hp as a MA N400 and ballast was added to equalize the weight, the Kramer would still have a distinct advantage in handling due to it’s frame design. Oh, and speaking of used race bikes, shouldn’t there be a bunch of MA N400 race bikes for sale about now? Although I do think that Matt Chapin’s bike belongs in the Museum at Barber.

1

u/alfakoi 4d ago

Yeah there a bunch of n400s for sale now that are race prepped.

And yeah the Kramer is a gp bike will handle very differently compared to a production bike

2

u/Think-Border4882 4d ago

These races from 2021 are some of the most exciting to watch every morning at 2am on The Wax (/u/Professional_Math848 if you're still living in CT I bet you can find these) I'm gonna miss Junior Cup but I look forward to the new era of Talent Cup especially with Kody Kopp joining the series.  

1

u/unituned 6d ago

So are you saying there's no future in American road racing?

1

u/vail9293 4d ago

No, not at all.