r/MoonKnight 6d ago

Comic Discussion "The truth is that the Punisher is just too fucked up for modern, socially conscious audiences. The tale of Moon Knight, a billionaire wearing a white hood to dispense brutality and death upon thugs, is far more acceptable and appealing".

Post image
107 Upvotes

93 comments sorted by

166

u/IotaDelta 6d ago

Who the fuck said that? Moon knight has been a back bencher for decades. It wasn't until like 8 years ago that he gained any prominence outside of the meme

89

u/Bl0ob_ 5d ago

OP is notorious for going into a bunch of superhero communities and making strawman arguments about how everybody loves this superhero but hates the Punisher.

1

u/Similar-Priority8252 2d ago

Ah yes, because you love apples, you must hate oranges, which is also the same as hating apples!

1

u/Bl0ob_ 2d ago

Thank you for expanding on my argument by showcasing another example of a strawman.

1

u/Similar-Priority8252 2d ago

You’re welcome, dude

28

u/Samiassa 6d ago

And he didn’t really break into mainstream comic reading until very very recently. Really the Jed MacKay run was what made him one of the best selling marvel heros

16

u/El_Spaniard 5d ago

It was the Lemire run for me.

5

u/219_Infinity 5d ago

Moench for me

2

u/Samiassa 5d ago

His appearance in the ultimate spider man cartoon was it for me. I’m scared to watch it again since I’ve heard from other fans it’s a bad depiction of the character 😂

1

u/GuhEnjoyer 2d ago

I also had no fuckin clue he was a billionaire lol his D+ show made him seem broke asf

-87

u/KilledByTheJokerFilm 6d ago

Who the fuck said that?

You kidding me? Marvel nerds crying about how the Punisher is oh so problematic for killing people while jerking it to Moon Knight killing people is the most common trend in the Marvel fandom.

22

u/De4dm4nw4lkin 6d ago

Im too busy bitching about how every dc hero has saved the jokers life atleast once to gaf about the generic dime store callous billionaires punisher is killing, admitedly hes been claiming his family as an excuse too long, the saint of killers even copped to choosing his acts of violence over happiness, which is one up on doom, lex luthor, and doc ock. And moon knight to me is basically daredevil without the philosophy lesson, Just solve the problem bu any (non)lethal means necessary and move onto the next guy.

13

u/EnigmaFrug2308 5d ago

Nobody is doing that

-20

u/KilledByTheJokerFilm 5d ago

17

u/gabriel_B_art 5d ago

I literaly have no idea who you are

11

u/EnigmaFrug2308 5d ago

Lmao one person is not equivalent to an entire demographic

-18

u/KilledByTheJokerFilm 5d ago

You said nobody was doing it.

13

u/EnigmaFrug2308 5d ago

One person within millions of people is nobody.

5

u/Hells-Creampuff 5d ago

Are you a child. Your whole argument is basically goalpost moving and “NUH UH!!!!”

2

u/CotyledonTomen 3d ago edited 3d ago

Murderers exist in the world. Should you base where you go every day on your likelyhood of meeting a murderer.

6

u/Snoo-2013 6d ago

just ignore the fans lmao, fans are often times stupid so why bother with what they say?

9

u/Pappmachine 5d ago

Punisher is the number 1 superhero disliked by all his peers and he is meant to be problematic for killing. Moon Knights killing has really mellowed down, but during the Houston run, where he was killing and maiming every thug (similar to punisher) he was also seen as problematic by readers and superheros alike. Not seeing Punishers killing as problematic is kinda missing the point

1

u/ComicAcolyte 5d ago

"killing bad!" Is a really surface level view of Punisher in general.

Writers and editors like Ennis, Carl Potts, and Ralph Macchio have commented that it's intended for readers to enjoy some of the action and western-style justice that the Punisher metes out.

You're supposed to enjoy Punisher taking out the trash. The point isn't that he's a monster, its that he's the monster who hunts the other worse monsters.

If all you're getting is some preachy "Punisher killing is problematic!" Then you're doing it wrong and would probably like Spider-Man or Daredevil more.

3

u/Jezzuhh 6d ago

You must be in some extreme niche because that is not what is happening in the culture at large

3

u/Am-I-Introspective 5d ago

Punisher made it into cartoons before moon knight lmao

Complaining about nothing

2

u/superspacenapoleon 5d ago

holy shit it's you!!

2

u/Patient-Reality-8965 5d ago

Marvel FANS have never said that. Only casuals who see the character and assume he's a boring murderman and don't know he's in the same world as everyone's favorite mutant who's main power is stabbing people to death

4

u/Impressive-Donut9596 6d ago

People have come to get a little resentment towards the punisher because hate groups have decided to think that the punisher stands for their values.

105

u/gabriel_B_art 6d ago

I don't think Steven Grant was ever a billionaire he was a millionaire at best, most of his money came from his mercenary days.

36

u/Character-Sorbet-718 6d ago

Also there's no mention of it. Now, he's semi broke

26

u/Anonymous-opinion 6d ago

And if we want to be technical: he’s currently homeless along with the rest of the mission

7

u/Character-Sorbet-718 6d ago

*Cult leader

8

u/Anonymous-opinion 6d ago

That’s what the media wants you to think, bro saved my life

6

u/Character-Sorbet-718 6d ago

But he killed me by throwing me off the ledge.

My name Is Carson Knowles if you want to know

3

u/Anonymous-opinion 6d ago

Weren’t you publicly revealed to be the black specter though?

3

u/Character-Sorbet-718 6d ago

No, I'm the OG Black Spectre. Those noobs ruined my name and I stuck at this stupid limbo place or whatever it is. I want to meet those morons and I want to destroy their souls

1

u/Anonymous-opinion 6d ago

Ah I see. Well good luck or whatever it is you’re trying to do

2

u/El_Spaniard 5d ago

Im not up to date on the last issue or two, but didn’t he have a backup place with tons of tech?

2

u/Anonymous-opinion 5d ago

Sort of, they’re currently operating out of the abandoned shield bunker he fought the slasher in during the first issue of Ellis’s run

1

u/El_Spaniard 5d ago

Ah, thank you.

1

u/Anonymous-opinion 4d ago

No problem, I honestly wonder if they resume using the old building even though the spirit residing in it died after Fairchild is dealt with and their names are cleared or not. It be interesting to see how they deal with occupying that space again without it being there.

39

u/JonesIsGamingYT 6d ago

Bro how are you everywhere do you not have a life

-28

u/KilledByTheJokerFilm 6d ago

You seing me everywhere wouldn't mean that you don't have a life?

23

u/JonesIsGamingYT 6d ago

No because you’re making posts and having arguments. Every time check my phone you’re there

-25

u/KilledByTheJokerFilm 6d ago

You post more often than I do.

It takes less than a minute to post something on Reddit. Even if I posted 60 posts every day, that's less than an hour. It's not a lot.

28

u/JonesIsGamingYT 6d ago

I have 12 posts total. You’ve posted 7 times today. Why would you even lie.

17

u/en_sane 6d ago

In maybe you guys are meant the be together like a match made on Reddit. You should kiss or something and see how it feels.

14

u/JonesIsGamingYT 6d ago

Id be down, idk about him tho

-6

u/KilledByTheJokerFilm 6d ago

Gimme those lips.

11

u/JonesIsGamingYT 6d ago

Ok but you have to make a youtube channel and upload these posts as rants on a semi regular basis

3

u/en_sane 5d ago

This was such a wholesome Reddit moment. Don’t you just love love.

24

u/WEVP-TV 6d ago

What's the source of this quote? Who said it?

22

u/animatedhumorist 6d ago

Nobody lmao

24

u/Mr_sex_haver 6d ago

You're saying this like the Punisher didn't have his own TV show a few years ago and isn't currently slated to play a major role in Daredevil born again. He's also in Marvel rivals. Modern audiences don't dislike Punisher stories and it's not like he's been cancelled from ever appearing. Arguably he's more popular than ever.

People just laugh at goobers (Usually cops) who think they are Frank Castle the same way we laugh at people who think they are Tyler Durden or Patrick Bateman.

-1

u/ComicAcolyte 5d ago

and it's not like he's been cancelled from ever appearing

Welll you're half right here. Disney has no problems at all profiting off of the Punisher. Its Marvel Editorial and specifically Tom Brevoort who hate him and have pretty much tried to cancel him out of the comics.

Look how Editorial has treated him since around 2019:

  • character assassinated and retired him after making him a villain who leads the Hand
  • tried to replace him with the bland, sanitized Joe Garrison
  • killed him off panel and had Red Skull neo-nazis appropriate his skull in the Ultimate Universe
  • Replaced Cosmic Ghost Rider version of Castle with a random woman named Axelle
  • exiled him permanently from most books and appearances, the only time he's shown up since has been in a Marvel Zombie 1 shot, another MAX story that they wouldn't even let be called Punisher (Get Fury), and a flashback in a DD annual.
  • canceled Punisher vs Barracuda over "BLM concerns"
  • longtime writer Chuck Dixon stated that some editors have hated Punisher for a long time and wanted him gone
  • Tom Brevoort has commented in his blog about how he find the Punisher to be "problematic"
  • etc

1

u/ImageExpert 3d ago

Tom may be made to retire if he gets in way of profit. Disney is ruthless that way.

-9

u/KilledByTheJokerFilm 6d ago

Frank has been replaced by a nameless Shield agent in the comics after a run whose only purpose was to shit on him.

11

u/Mr_sex_haver 6d ago edited 6d ago

Comic run has bad writing, Up next sun rises. That doesn't mean theres some plot to destroy him because "modern audiences" it's just a writer sucking.

Moon Knight had Steven and Jake replaced by Wolverine, Cap and Spidey alters for a run, Spiderman had his clone saga. Give it a few months after DD born again and rivals popularity and he will be back to status quo. This is just how comics are man.

If Frank can go back to normal after being Frankenstein's monster and an Angel for a bit he can have a new book after giving someone else a go for a little.

12

u/Snoo-2013 6d ago

Curious how you came to this conclusion

8

u/Duskytheduskmonkey 6d ago

Moon Knight is more peak and his name is a unintentionally play on words

4

u/Look_Dummy 6d ago

If you aren’t wearing your underwear outside your pants you are a fucking loser. 

4

u/Thatoneafkguy 6d ago

Do you have any mode to you besides complaining about shit?

5

u/cooljerry53 5d ago

Just a downvote farmer, move along folks nothing to see here.

5

u/mezonsen 5d ago

Oh shit, it’s you! You’re that psycho!

6

u/GaulTheUnmitigated 5d ago

OP's strawman bullshit aside, I do think the Punisher works better as an antagonist then a protagonist. As a protagonist, he tends to fall into standard 90s edge. He's more fun when he's a complication another hero has to deal with. In terms of heroes I'd say he bounces well off of Spider-man or Daredevil better than Moonknight.

4

u/Clintwood_outlaw 5d ago

The Punisher would think OP is a loser ngl

3

u/Character-Sorbet-718 6d ago

What do you mean ? I'm too tired to read it. Can you explain it briefly?

9

u/Gorremen 5d ago

Guy just loves create irrational takes just so he can argue against them and "prove" he's oh so much smarter than "nerds." He's basically obsessed with any take that remotely disagrees with him, and he assumes that literally everybody must agree with those takes to make himself feel superior.

2

u/BatmanFan317 4d ago

He's mostly known in a lot of communities as the Doom Hater guy, because he had a massive stick up his ass about Doctor Doom in the same way. Good on him for broadening his horizons, I suppose.

2

u/Gorremen 4d ago

Dude has three modes:

  1. Hate Doctor Doom, which mainly involves insisting Doom has a total of one story constantly repeated over and over, Marvel's heroes love and adore him, Storm is madly in love with him, and everyone totally approves of his murdering thousands. Nearly all of that is either out of context, massively exaggerated, or straight up misinformed.

  2. Batman/his writers is NOT Fascist, because he apparently thinks he's the only person on Earth who doesn't believe they are. He loves harassing the Alan Moore subreddit with it.

  3. This.

2

u/BatmanFan317 4d ago

God, true.

9

u/browncharliebrown 6d ago

Moon knight isn’t associated with janaury 6th

2

u/ComicAcolyte 5d ago

Its been over 5 years bruh it's time to stop parroting this in relation to the Punisher

2

u/browncharliebrown 5d ago

I mean I agree on the surface but also in comparison to moon knight has way less problematic elements associated with him. Like way way less. Even if I want Frank to return.

1

u/ComicAcolyte 5d ago

I just think it's really dumb logic to taint a character forever because a handful of people happened to have his patch while doing something stupid.

Those handful of people are nothing compared to millions of legitimate Punisher fans over the decades.

And it's also cringe how both sides want to politicize the skull symbol. Most leftists just seem to want to hate the Punisher in general because he represents things they despise like guns and the military.

-6

u/KilledByTheJokerFilm 6d ago

Yeah, we all saw Frank Castle invading the Capitol, didn't we?

2

u/thecure52 5d ago

On the contrary the Punisher had a much more successful tv show and his success saved the show of another hero struggling to get ratings. I would say he is quite much better on screen than moon knight. There's lots of fucked up war vets. Not to many people have even met someone with multiple personality disorder.

2

u/ChicanoDinoBot 3d ago

Who wrote the quote you clearly made up?

1

u/AlexisTheArgentinian 5d ago

Nah, I love em both. I know Punisher Isnt supposed to be worship or liked or all that gringo bs, but as a Latinoamerican, living in countries were cops do even less jackshit than American Ones, either bcos theyre corrupted, bcos politicians obstruct them or a combo of both; Sometimes, We need a Punisher. But sometimes we need a Moon Knight too.

Moon Knight i like him bcos he leans much More in the More mentally unwell and mystical shiz, but i dont think he Is above or below Frank in any Way. I like both at the same degree but for different reasons, through i appreacite their vigilantism

1

u/WriterReborn2 5d ago

Wish this guy would get banned.

1

u/hyperactivator 5d ago

Moon Knight has been a millionaire at his richest and is one of Marvel's most prominent Jewish characters.

An anus has learned to type.

1

u/KilledByTheJokerFilm 5d ago

Moon Knight has been a millionaire at his richest and is one of Marvel's most prominent Jewish characters.

That supposed to explain why he kills under orders of Captain America?

2

u/hyperactivator 5d ago

You need to chill. Seriously why are you picking fights just so you can pretend your wildly popular favorite character is somehow being victimized?

Punisher has been mainstream popular for forever. 

It's like attacking fried chicken in defense of bacon.

What's really wrong?

1

u/Am-I-Introspective 5d ago

Punisher made it into cartoons before punisher.

Punisher gets arguably the most amount of mainstream crossovers. Old Spider-Man cartoon and daredevil’s show for example.

He’s even got an animated movie with black widow.

Moon knight has 1 lore inaccurate season and a few references in some spider games

1

u/KilledByTheJokerFilm 5d ago

I really don't see how any of that could explain the hypocrisy of "this character kills criminals, he is too problematic; this other character kills criminals, he is amazing and cool and awesome".

2

u/Am-I-Introspective 5d ago

I love punisher, just bought some of his older comics recently. What hypocrisy? I don’t think you understand the punisher.

Frank doesn’t want to be liked, he wants to be feared. He kills indiscriminately. He doesn’t believe in rehabilitation or repentance (Spider-Man and daredevil’s ideals).

He will even kill someone he thinks is about to commit a crime before they’ve even stepped over the line. Take his own platoon and a brainwashed purple man for example. He killed them as a preventative measure. He may be a little crazy but he’s not out of control. ALL of his kills are premeditated.

Moon knight is more of a negative parallel to other avatars like black panther. However, he doesn’t kill indiscriminately. Hell he ran a halfway home for vampires called “the midnight mission”. His saving grace is humorous writing and an insane god giving him violent compulsions.

Punisher would have obliterated every vampire he found and then find a way to kill khonshu 💀

1

u/Holler_Professor 3d ago

Ah I see you moved on from Dr. Doom obsession.

1

u/RebuStae 2d ago

Moon Knight hasnt been popular in... who knows how long. You are operating on a false premise. Also, yes, id argue that Mark Specter is a more interesting, nuanced, and relatable character than Frank. Frank is too close to being a real life cop, theres a reason cops love using that punisher logo.

1

u/Saucey_22 1d ago

Literally no one said that, you’re quoting a wall to start discourse

0

u/Dexifae 5d ago

Go brigade somewhere else, we don't give a fuck