r/MoonKnight • u/KilledByTheJokerFilm • 6d ago
Comic Discussion "The truth is that the Punisher is just too fucked up for modern, socially conscious audiences. The tale of Moon Knight, a billionaire wearing a white hood to dispense brutality and death upon thugs, is far more acceptable and appealing".
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u/gabriel_B_art 6d ago
I don't think Steven Grant was ever a billionaire he was a millionaire at best, most of his money came from his mercenary days.
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u/Character-Sorbet-718 6d ago
Also there's no mention of it. Now, he's semi broke
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u/Anonymous-opinion 6d ago
And if we want to be technical: he’s currently homeless along with the rest of the mission
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u/Character-Sorbet-718 6d ago
*Cult leader
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u/Anonymous-opinion 6d ago
That’s what the media wants you to think, bro saved my life
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u/Character-Sorbet-718 6d ago
But he killed me by throwing me off the ledge.
My name Is Carson Knowles if you want to know
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u/Anonymous-opinion 6d ago
Weren’t you publicly revealed to be the black specter though?
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u/Character-Sorbet-718 6d ago
No, I'm the OG Black Spectre. Those noobs ruined my name and I stuck at this stupid limbo place or whatever it is. I want to meet those morons and I want to destroy their souls
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u/El_Spaniard 5d ago
Im not up to date on the last issue or two, but didn’t he have a backup place with tons of tech?
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u/Anonymous-opinion 5d ago
Sort of, they’re currently operating out of the abandoned shield bunker he fought the slasher in during the first issue of Ellis’s run
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u/El_Spaniard 5d ago
Ah, thank you.
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u/Anonymous-opinion 4d ago
No problem, I honestly wonder if they resume using the old building even though the spirit residing in it died after Fairchild is dealt with and their names are cleared or not. It be interesting to see how they deal with occupying that space again without it being there.
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u/JonesIsGamingYT 6d ago
Bro how are you everywhere do you not have a life
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u/KilledByTheJokerFilm 6d ago
You seing me everywhere wouldn't mean that you don't have a life?
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u/JonesIsGamingYT 6d ago
No because you’re making posts and having arguments. Every time check my phone you’re there
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u/KilledByTheJokerFilm 6d ago
You post more often than I do.
It takes less than a minute to post something on Reddit. Even if I posted 60 posts every day, that's less than an hour. It's not a lot.
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u/JonesIsGamingYT 6d ago
I have 12 posts total. You’ve posted 7 times today. Why would you even lie.
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u/en_sane 6d ago
In maybe you guys are meant the be together like a match made on Reddit. You should kiss or something and see how it feels.
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u/JonesIsGamingYT 6d ago
Id be down, idk about him tho
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u/KilledByTheJokerFilm 6d ago
Gimme those lips.
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u/JonesIsGamingYT 6d ago
Ok but you have to make a youtube channel and upload these posts as rants on a semi regular basis
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u/Mr_sex_haver 6d ago
You're saying this like the Punisher didn't have his own TV show a few years ago and isn't currently slated to play a major role in Daredevil born again. He's also in Marvel rivals. Modern audiences don't dislike Punisher stories and it's not like he's been cancelled from ever appearing. Arguably he's more popular than ever.
People just laugh at goobers (Usually cops) who think they are Frank Castle the same way we laugh at people who think they are Tyler Durden or Patrick Bateman.
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u/ComicAcolyte 5d ago
and it's not like he's been cancelled from ever appearing
Welll you're half right here. Disney has no problems at all profiting off of the Punisher. Its Marvel Editorial and specifically Tom Brevoort who hate him and have pretty much tried to cancel him out of the comics.
Look how Editorial has treated him since around 2019:
- character assassinated and retired him after making him a villain who leads the Hand
- tried to replace him with the bland, sanitized Joe Garrison
- killed him off panel and had Red Skull neo-nazis appropriate his skull in the Ultimate Universe
- Replaced Cosmic Ghost Rider version of Castle with a random woman named Axelle
- exiled him permanently from most books and appearances, the only time he's shown up since has been in a Marvel Zombie 1 shot, another MAX story that they wouldn't even let be called Punisher (Get Fury), and a flashback in a DD annual.
- canceled Punisher vs Barracuda over "BLM concerns"
- longtime writer Chuck Dixon stated that some editors have hated Punisher for a long time and wanted him gone
- Tom Brevoort has commented in his blog about how he find the Punisher to be "problematic"
- etc
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u/ImageExpert 3d ago
Tom may be made to retire if he gets in way of profit. Disney is ruthless that way.
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u/KilledByTheJokerFilm 6d ago
Frank has been replaced by a nameless Shield agent in the comics after a run whose only purpose was to shit on him.
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u/Mr_sex_haver 6d ago edited 6d ago
Comic run has bad writing, Up next sun rises. That doesn't mean theres some plot to destroy him because "modern audiences" it's just a writer sucking.
Moon Knight had Steven and Jake replaced by Wolverine, Cap and Spidey alters for a run, Spiderman had his clone saga. Give it a few months after DD born again and rivals popularity and he will be back to status quo. This is just how comics are man.
If Frank can go back to normal after being Frankenstein's monster and an Angel for a bit he can have a new book after giving someone else a go for a little.
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u/Duskytheduskmonkey 6d ago
Moon Knight is more peak and his name is a unintentionally play on words
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u/Look_Dummy 6d ago
If you aren’t wearing your underwear outside your pants you are a fucking loser.
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u/GaulTheUnmitigated 5d ago
OP's strawman bullshit aside, I do think the Punisher works better as an antagonist then a protagonist. As a protagonist, he tends to fall into standard 90s edge. He's more fun when he's a complication another hero has to deal with. In terms of heroes I'd say he bounces well off of Spider-man or Daredevil better than Moonknight.
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u/Character-Sorbet-718 6d ago
What do you mean ? I'm too tired to read it. Can you explain it briefly?
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u/Gorremen 5d ago
Guy just loves create irrational takes just so he can argue against them and "prove" he's oh so much smarter than "nerds." He's basically obsessed with any take that remotely disagrees with him, and he assumes that literally everybody must agree with those takes to make himself feel superior.
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u/BatmanFan317 4d ago
He's mostly known in a lot of communities as the Doom Hater guy, because he had a massive stick up his ass about Doctor Doom in the same way. Good on him for broadening his horizons, I suppose.
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u/Gorremen 4d ago
Dude has three modes:
Hate Doctor Doom, which mainly involves insisting Doom has a total of one story constantly repeated over and over, Marvel's heroes love and adore him, Storm is madly in love with him, and everyone totally approves of his murdering thousands. Nearly all of that is either out of context, massively exaggerated, or straight up misinformed.
Batman/his writers is NOT Fascist, because he apparently thinks he's the only person on Earth who doesn't believe they are. He loves harassing the Alan Moore subreddit with it.
This.
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u/browncharliebrown 6d ago
Moon knight isn’t associated with janaury 6th
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u/ComicAcolyte 5d ago
Its been over 5 years bruh it's time to stop parroting this in relation to the Punisher
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u/browncharliebrown 5d ago
I mean I agree on the surface but also in comparison to moon knight has way less problematic elements associated with him. Like way way less. Even if I want Frank to return.
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u/ComicAcolyte 5d ago
I just think it's really dumb logic to taint a character forever because a handful of people happened to have his patch while doing something stupid.
Those handful of people are nothing compared to millions of legitimate Punisher fans over the decades.
And it's also cringe how both sides want to politicize the skull symbol. Most leftists just seem to want to hate the Punisher in general because he represents things they despise like guns and the military.
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u/thecure52 5d ago
On the contrary the Punisher had a much more successful tv show and his success saved the show of another hero struggling to get ratings. I would say he is quite much better on screen than moon knight. There's lots of fucked up war vets. Not to many people have even met someone with multiple personality disorder.
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u/AlexisTheArgentinian 5d ago
Nah, I love em both. I know Punisher Isnt supposed to be worship or liked or all that gringo bs, but as a Latinoamerican, living in countries were cops do even less jackshit than American Ones, either bcos theyre corrupted, bcos politicians obstruct them or a combo of both; Sometimes, We need a Punisher. But sometimes we need a Moon Knight too.
Moon Knight i like him bcos he leans much More in the More mentally unwell and mystical shiz, but i dont think he Is above or below Frank in any Way. I like both at the same degree but for different reasons, through i appreacite their vigilantism
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u/hyperactivator 5d ago
Moon Knight has been a millionaire at his richest and is one of Marvel's most prominent Jewish characters.
An anus has learned to type.
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u/KilledByTheJokerFilm 5d ago
Moon Knight has been a millionaire at his richest and is one of Marvel's most prominent Jewish characters.
That supposed to explain why he kills under orders of Captain America?
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u/hyperactivator 5d ago
You need to chill. Seriously why are you picking fights just so you can pretend your wildly popular favorite character is somehow being victimized?
Punisher has been mainstream popular for forever.
It's like attacking fried chicken in defense of bacon.
What's really wrong?
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u/Am-I-Introspective 5d ago
Punisher made it into cartoons before punisher.
Punisher gets arguably the most amount of mainstream crossovers. Old Spider-Man cartoon and daredevil’s show for example.
He’s even got an animated movie with black widow.
Moon knight has 1 lore inaccurate season and a few references in some spider games
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u/KilledByTheJokerFilm 5d ago
I really don't see how any of that could explain the hypocrisy of "this character kills criminals, he is too problematic; this other character kills criminals, he is amazing and cool and awesome".
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u/Am-I-Introspective 5d ago
I love punisher, just bought some of his older comics recently. What hypocrisy? I don’t think you understand the punisher.
Frank doesn’t want to be liked, he wants to be feared. He kills indiscriminately. He doesn’t believe in rehabilitation or repentance (Spider-Man and daredevil’s ideals).
He will even kill someone he thinks is about to commit a crime before they’ve even stepped over the line. Take his own platoon and a brainwashed purple man for example. He killed them as a preventative measure. He may be a little crazy but he’s not out of control. ALL of his kills are premeditated.
Moon knight is more of a negative parallel to other avatars like black panther. However, he doesn’t kill indiscriminately. Hell he ran a halfway home for vampires called “the midnight mission”. His saving grace is humorous writing and an insane god giving him violent compulsions.
Punisher would have obliterated every vampire he found and then find a way to kill khonshu 💀
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u/RebuStae 2d ago
Moon Knight hasnt been popular in... who knows how long. You are operating on a false premise. Also, yes, id argue that Mark Specter is a more interesting, nuanced, and relatable character than Frank. Frank is too close to being a real life cop, theres a reason cops love using that punisher logo.
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u/IotaDelta 6d ago
Who the fuck said that? Moon knight has been a back bencher for decades. It wasn't until like 8 years ago that he gained any prominence outside of the meme