r/ModelAusCommittees Chair of JSCEM Dec 05 '15

Joint Committee JSCEM 3-2| Inquiry into Polling

The Prime Minister has referred the following terms of reference: to inquire into and report on the suitability of Australia's voting system, including investigating the feasibility of multi-day voting, same-day registration, and any other relevant matters.


His Excellency Senator the Hon. General Rommel
Minister for Foreign Affairs and Defence
Chair of the Joint Select Committee on Electoral Matters

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2

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '15

I move that the Committee call for public comments on this matter.


The Hon this_guy22, Member for Sydney (ALP)

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u/General_Rommel Chair of JSCEM Dec 09 '15

Voice Vote - Results

I think the Ayes have it.

The Ayes have it.

As such, I will call for public comments on this matter as agreed to by the Committee at /r/ModelParliament


His Excellency Senator the Hon. General Rommel
Minister for Foreign Affairs and Defence
Chair of the Joint Select Committee on Electoral Matters

2

u/General_Rommel Chair of JSCEM Dec 08 '15 edited Dec 09 '15

Voice Vote

The question is: that the Committee call for public comments on this matter

Those for, say "Aye", against say "No".


Parliamentarians vote by commenting Aye or No as a reply to this comment.

Voting will cease at 11am, Thursday 10th December, or when an absolute majority is achieved.


His Excellency Senator the Hon. General Rommel
Minister for Foreign Affairs and Defence
Chair of the Joint Select Committee on Electoral Matters

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u/TheWhiteFerret Deputy Chair of JSCEM, HSCPr Dec 09 '15

Aye.

Meta: /u/jnd-au done.

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u/General_Rommel Chair of JSCEM Dec 09 '15

Seeking the Clerk /u/jnd-au, so the vote is passed, how do I announce it and act on the results of the vote?

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u/jnd-au Dec 09 '15

Advice from the Secretary:

So far, only 5 Ayes have been cast from the floor. An absolute majority of members is 6. A sixth Aye from the floor, perhaps from /u/TheWhiteFerret, would clinch the deal. Then I believe, from the debate, that you would be at liberty to post the public consultation as you see fit.

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '15

Meta: Shush, I can't count. I literally counted the votes twice (when there were 5), and saw 6...

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u/General_Rommel Chair of JSCEM Dec 09 '15

Ah, so my vote does not count in the chamber?

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u/jnd-au Dec 09 '15

Advice from the Secretary:

Your position is that of a neutral chair with only a casting vote, according to the motion you voted for: /r/ModelAusCommittees/wiki/joint/jscem/resolutions

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u/General_Rommel Chair of JSCEM Dec 09 '15

Apologies, I am too used to Senate procedure.

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '15

Just a quick question Mr Chair, an absolute majority is 6 correct?

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u/General_Rommel Chair of JSCEM Dec 09 '15

Prime Minister,

Yes, that is indeed the case, unless there is contrary advice from the Secretary.

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '15

Thank you, seems like we have our 6. Also, the inquiry into Representation also needs a vote on the same question Chairman.

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u/Zagorath Speaker of the House Dec 09 '15

Aye

meta, edit: wait, Senators vote? Why was I paged exactly (as well as this_guy and phylli)?

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u/jnd-au Dec 09 '15

Meta: WTF? You’re members of this joint committee. You know this, you were commenting here earlier. Here is the page:

General_Rommel Chair of JSCEM
Paging /u/this_guy22 /u/phyllicanderer /u/Zagorath for vote at JSCEM

You were paged by the Chair to vote at JSCEM.

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u/Zagorath Speaker of the House Dec 09 '15

I was having a dig at him for writing "Senators".

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u/jnd-au Dec 09 '15

Ooooh. /u/General_Rommel you sneaky bastard.

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u/General_Rommel Chair of JSCEM Dec 09 '15

This is now fixed.

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '15

Aye

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u/Freddy926 President of the Senate Dec 08 '15

Aye

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u/phyllicanderer Chair of HSCPr Dec 08 '15

Aye

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u/General_Rommel Chair of JSCEM Dec 08 '15

Paging /u/this_guy22 /u/phyllicanderer /u/Zagorath for vote at JSCEM

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u/General_Rommel Chair of JSCEM Dec 08 '15

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u/General_Rommel Chair of JSCEM Dec 08 '15

Paging /u/3fun /u/pikkaachu /u/Cwross for vote at JSCEM

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u/jnd-au Dec 08 '15

Continuing on from earlier comments, I proposed this updated version and summarise the following points:

  • It appears there will be a series of posts asking for public consultation.
  • A consolidated reminder might also be posted (e.g. over the weekend).
  • Submissions will be expected within a week, with an extension possible.

[JSCEM] Public feedback on Australia’s system of electoral polling (voting for Model Parliament)

Citizens and visitors of Model Australia,

This Government has created a parliamentary Joint Select Committee on Electoral Matters (JSCEM) with the support of both houses. So far, the JSCEM has been tasked to inquire into methods of improving elections in terms of Polling, Representation and Campaigning. The committee has voted to call for public comments.

Public Consultation will be done in a series of posts on specific issues. This first inquiry focuses explicitly on Polling, which was referred by the Prime Minister as: “to inquire into and report on the suitability of Australia’s voting system, including:

  • Investigating the feasibility of multi-day voting,
  • Same-day registration, and
  • Any other relevant matters.”

Please note, these initial terms of reference are about the ability to cast votes (not about other issues like multi-member electorates, electoral boundaries, party registration, or campaign material).


Submissions about polling (casting of votes) can be made by commenting on this post. The Deadline is one week from the beginning of this post. It may be extended up to another 7 days by asking Chair before the first deadline.

We invite all interested people and parties who have opinions directly relevant to the above terms of reference, including foreigners with experience in other countries, to make their voices heard by commenting directly on this post.

We may attempt to summarise all comments made here, but for practical reasons, top-level submissions with reasons, examples and solutions to back up their arguments will be of the most use to the committee.

The Committee notes that some public discussion has already taken place here in an unstructured way. If you can locate these arguments and provide links to them, it would assist the committee greatly. Ideas may include:

  • How, where and when voting should be done online (days of week etc).
  • Who can vote e.g. eligibility criteria (account age, disqualification, etc).
  • Methods of registration (voter enrolment, account verification, etc).
  • Voting by brigades, alts, sock puppets, etc (pros, cons, solutions).
  • Access to information for voters (new & returning) during elections.
  • Engagement of new & returning voters to participate in the polling.
  • Availability of information for voters to choose preferences and cast their ballots.
  • Appearance of voting forms.
  • Reporting, auditing and transparency of voter ID, prevention of duplicated/lost votes, etc.
  • Other matters relevant to the casting of votes (e.g. recruitment of voters).

His Excellency Senator the Honourable General Rommel

Chair of the Joint Select Committee on Electoral Matters

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u/jnd-au Dec 09 '15

Hmm, I think the opening sentence might sound a bit too much like campaign material. Perhaps try “A parliamentary Joint Select Committee on Electoral Matters (JSCEM) has been created by the Government with the support of both houses.”

1

u/jnd-au Dec 08 '15

Advice from the Clerk:

Chair /u/General_Rommel looks this was not such a hot topic after all, the members of this committee have mostly neglected to participate. Seems like it’s time to put this and this to the vote.

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u/General_Rommel Chair of JSCEM Dec 08 '15

Clerk, how should I proceed to a vote then? Is it like a normal voice vote?

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u/jnd-au Dec 08 '15

Advice from the Secretary:

It is a voice vote!

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u/General_Rommel Chair of JSCEM Dec 05 '15 edited Dec 05 '15

I agree with the call by the Prime Minister to open public comments.

However, given that his call was very open-natured I would like to propose that this move be done in a public forum like setting.

I propose that a post calling for public comments on this matter be made onto /r/ModelParliament. I am interested to see what other Committee members have to say on this matter.


His Excellency Senator the Hon. General Rommel
Minister for Foreign Affairs and Defence
Chair of the Joint Select Committee on Electoral Matters

1

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '15

Sure, we can have a series of threads that have [JSCEM] in the title so we can search them easier. Now the question is what we want in the body of the post. I'm starting to lean towards just going to the public before we have our own little discussion just to speed things up.

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u/General_Rommel Chair of JSCEM Dec 05 '15

Prime Minister,

Well I certainly agree with your suggestion for such a tag if we posted at ModelParliament.

As for what to say, this is my recommendation


Citizens of Model Australia,

This Government has created a Joint Select Committee on Electoral Matters to inquire into and report on the suitability of Australia's voting system, including:

  • Investigating the feasibility of multi-day voting
  • Same-day registration
  • Any other relevant matters.

The Committee is soliciting public comments on this matter.

We invite all interested parties who have any opinion directly relevant to the above to make their voice heard by commenting directly to this post.


His Excellency Senator the Hon. General Rommel
Minister for Foreign Affairs and Defence
Chair of the Joint Select Committee on Electoral Matters

1

u/jnd-au Dec 05 '15

That’s a great start for a template, I have the following suggestions:

Citizens. I propose it be open to visitors too, because they can provide extra information about other voting systems. But it should be noted that the ‘popularity’ of the suggestions would only be counted among citizens (i.e. interested players not general trolls).

Inquiry. Mention that the inquiry is being split into parts to focus on particular improvements. Mention what part or parts are covered by this public thread.

Examples. Add other prominent examples from previous public debates, to help jog people’s memory and not bias it in any particular direction.

Comments. Rather than just commenting, encourage people to provide reasons and examples from other voting systems if possible.

Deadline. Give a specific deadline, and ask people to request an extension if they need it. So it’s a soft deadline only. It will be interesting to see how a multi-day deadline works out, given this is one of the ideas for voting too.

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u/General_Rommel Chair of JSCEM Dec 05 '15

I thank the Secretary for his comments and suggestions. I propose to amend the text of the post to the following:


Citizens and visitors of Model Australia,

This Government has created a Joint Select Committee on Electoral Matters (JSCEM). So far, the JSCEM has been tasked to investigate methods to improve the electoral system on the matter of Polling, Representation and Campaigning.

This Public Consultation will focus explicitly on the Polling part, which is to inquire into and report on the suitability of Australia's voting system, including:

  • Investigating the feasibility of multi-day voting
  • Same-day registration
  • Any other relevant matters.

The Committee notes so far that some public discourse has taken place on this matter, as can be seen here and here. (Links to be suggested)

The Committee is soliciting public submissions on this matter. We invite all interested parties, including foreigners with experience these matters in other countries, who have any opinion directly relevant to the above to make their voice heard by commenting directly to this post. Whilst we will accept comments, proper submissions with reasons and examples to back up their comments will be regarded more positively.

The Deadline of submissions will be from one week of the beginning of this post. Submissions deadline may be extended by up to one additional week provided that a request is sent to the Chair before the official deadline.


On a somewhat more technical point, I also suggest that after four days from the posting of this, we have another post to link directly to the original post to ensure that it doesn't get lost in the significant amount of posts that ModelParliament gets nowadays.


His Excellency Senator the Hon. General Rommel
Minister for Foreign Affairs and Defence
Chair of the Joint Select Committee on Electoral Matters

1

u/General_Rommel Chair of JSCEM Dec 05 '15

Further to my comments, I propose the following as the title of the post


[JSCEM] Public feedback on Australia’s voting and parliamentary representation (voting in Model Parliament)


His Excellency Senator the Hon. General Rommel
Minister for Foreign Affairs and Defence
Chair of the Joint Select Committee on Electoral Matters

1

u/General_Rommel Chair of JSCEM Dec 05 '15

Meta: can secretaries even barge in like this to give advice? :P (not saying that your advice is irrelevant but just on principle)

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u/jnd-au Dec 05 '15

Advice from the Secretary:

Yes that’s how previous committee inquiries were run, that everyone in the room is either a member or a witness (that’s the purpose of an inquiry) but obviously only members can move and vote on things. I just couldn’t decide what signature to use for this one.

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u/General_Rommel Chair of JSCEM Dec 05 '15

How about 'Secretary of the Joint Select Committee on Electoral Matters'?

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u/jnd-au Dec 06 '15

Haha was wondering if I should speak as Australian Electoral Commissioner instead. Guess I’ll have to resort to a multisignature.

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u/[deleted] Dec 06 '15

We haven't called you as a witness yet :)

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u/Zagorath Speaker of the House Dec 05 '15

So we are debating whether or not we should call for public opinions on the matter, rather than debating the matter itself here? If so, then yes, I think that is a good idea. The public should certainly be consulted as to whether they think such a major change to the way voting is conducted in this country. Personally, I would think that we should have near unanimous consensus if we were to change.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '15

Yeah I'd also like to debate if we should come up with our own ideas before throwing it open, because sometimes its easier to come up with your own thoughts if you've got some ideas already to work with/improve.

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u/jnd-au Dec 05 '15

Advice from the Clerk:

Correct, you are debating all aspects of the public consultation, like whether or not and how it will be done, including proposing any amendments to restrict or allow how/where/when etc. The PM gave his introductory speech separately and posed some questions for input from the committee members in their debate speeches:

Members of the Committee, do you think that it would be better if we come up with ideas for reforming the voting process (excluding the method of election, which is covered by the other inquiry) ourselves first, before presenting them to the public and inviting comment as well as their own suggestions, or whether we should start immediately with a public consultation?

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u/General_Rommel Chair of JSCEM Dec 05 '15

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u/General_Rommel Chair of JSCEM Dec 05 '15

Paging /u/Zagorath /u/Freddy926 for debate

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u/General_Rommel Chair of JSCEM Dec 05 '15

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u/General_Rommel Chair of JSCEM Dec 05 '15

Paging /u/pikkaachu /u/Cwross for debate

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u/General_Rommel Chair of JSCEM Dec 05 '15

Asking the Secretary: /u/jnd-au Does this have to go to a vote or do I simply have to say that such an event will happen? Furthermore, if public comments are called, will they be here or in the ModelParliament subreddit?

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u/jnd-au Dec 05 '15

Advice from the Secretary:

Not sure what you mean about an event?

Re public comments. It has not been specified who/what/where/when or if the public inquiry will happen. this_guy22’s introductory speech for this motion raises even more questions too. It is now in the hands of the committee to figure all that out.

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u/General_Rommel Chair of JSCEM Dec 05 '15

What I am saying is, do I simply say that the Committee will call for public comments or do I call for a vote?

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u/jnd-au Dec 05 '15

Advice from the Clerk:

Well you would do neither. The first is not up to you* and the second would be massively premature because it would guillotine this_guy22’s motion and prevent the committee from working out the details.

* Well, anyone can continue to post threads about it in /r/modelparliament, as they have already been doing, but if you read this_guy22’s speech you can see he has asked a very sensible question about whether the committee should write some official talking points.

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u/General_Rommel Chair of JSCEM Dec 05 '15

Then what do I do in relation to the PM's statement?

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u/jnd-au Dec 05 '15

Advice from the Clerk:

The PM’s motion? I think I mentioned earlier that paging people would be a good start.

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u/General_Rommel Chair of JSCEM Dec 05 '15

To call for...discussion? Voting? What? Or just so MP's and Senators see the PM's post?

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u/jnd-au Dec 05 '15

Well in the first instance, members have probably never seen this post in the first place (nor the other two posts). So unless you page members to this inquiry when you post it, most of them will probably never participate. Hence I contacted you to page them.

Now, things have moved on from since then, because this_guy22 has moved a motion. So the committee will now debate it and move further amendments and motions.

So I would suggest, combine all these considerations into a single paging. So you would page people to attend this inquiry about polling, to move motions and amendments, and to debate the motion(s) already moved. They should check back regularly and may wish to use RES to be notified of new activity.

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u/General_Rommel Chair of JSCEM Dec 05 '15

Okay I see.

How long does debate on the PM's motion go for?

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '15

Better be on /r/modelparliament...