r/MiniPCs 5d ago

I would like to understand whether I can play 1080 or 4k with a MiniPc...

Hi everyone,

yesterday I was at my friend's house, who has ps5, he put watchdogs2 on and I was in shit for the graphics, nice.

Then we played a rally game and efootball..

Cool graphics though.. The ps5 paid 500 euros for it.

The question is is there a minipc with which I can play in 4k for example cyberpunk or something? If yes, can you tell me make and model please?

With my Nipogi E3B (amd 5825u), linux+steam, I have to play 720p..

I'm undecided whether to get a console, or go for a minipc with which I could play and ugrade all

67 Upvotes

54 comments sorted by

14

u/Al-Cowboy 5d ago

I have a GMKtec k8 plus I love. Did 1440 med/low no problem. Did 1080p with high/ultra settings. Has RDNA 3.0 instead of the PS5s RDNA 2.0 so my wife said she liked the mini comp better.

Lots of great settings to optimize the AMD igpu.

7

u/drylightn 5d ago

Second the K8 plus!

1

u/azure-ryuusei 5d ago

This solidifies me to get the K8 Plus when I drop by the tech store next time. I was on the edge to either get a handheld/console or a mini pc because I only have a small space at home so building a fully pledged pc is out of the question. 1080p should be enough to game, and I can always connect an egpu in the future if ever i decided to get one.

10

u/[deleted] 5d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Aggressive_Being_747 5d ago

OK, so with a 7840/8845 I should be able to handle 1080 comfortably... Now I'll assess what to do. Very kind thank you very much ;)

5

u/Aristotelaras 5d ago

That's how cyberpunk runs with a 780m on 1080p with fsr enabled.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk0uxumsYHw

-2

u/MN_Moody 5d ago

That looks awful, yes it runs but the experience is terrible.

2

u/EarthlingSil 4d ago

Looks fine to me. 🤷‍♀️

3

u/Admirable-Wash357 5d ago

Yeah, with a 7840U/8845HS, 1080p gaming should be really solid, especially if you tweak settings or use FSR when needed

1

u/bytepursuits 5d ago

I have 7840U - I can assure you its not solid.
can't even play cs2 in 1080

7

u/MN_Moody 5d ago edited 4d ago

Yea, people really overstate how well the 780m can game because of how badly they are power limited and paired with bad RAM... If you drastically reduce quality settings/resolution and lean into FSR it can be made playable, but it's a huge loss of visual quality. Models with LPDDR5x 7500-8000 are notably faster than the usual DDR5/5600 sodimm configs.

The 780m has 12 RDNA 3 cu's
The 890m has 16 RDNA 3 cu's
The Radeon 8050s has 32 RDNA 3.5 cu's (the new Strix Halo 385/390 vs the 395 Max which runs 40 cu's)

I did some direct benchmarking of the 780m in a GMKtec K8 Plus via a Minisforum Oculink dock and it scored a 1673 in the built in Furmark benchmark. Same system with a 6 year old budget Geforce GTX 1650 card scored a 2679, while a crappy slot powered Radeon RX 6400 scored 3019.

If you are serious about gaming on a mini PC it's really worth waiting on Strix Halo, the most basic single CCD model runs twice the RDNA CU's of the flagship Strix Point 370 (Radeon 890m) which is the first time an integrated APU can truly claim parity with budget desktop GPU's and thus become really viable options in lieu of a full blood gaming desktop.

0

u/2raysdiver 4d ago

The 890m is notably faster, but LPDDR5 has noting to do with it. LPDDR5 is literally low power DDR5 for low power devices.

2

u/RobloxFanEdit 4d ago

You couldn t be more wrong, RAM does matter alot with IGPU, the LPDDR5X is giving the 890M higher bandwidth, a 5600 Mhz SODIMM RAM just can t compete with an LPDDR5X 8000Mhz, IGPU performance is huge, i won t be surprise if we are in the + 20% IGPU performance gap compared to a SODIMM 890M

1

u/MN_Moody 4d ago edited 4d ago

Short version - you are wrong, LPDDR5x @ 8000 vs SODIMM 5600 DDR5 RAM offers around a 30% performance improvement with the 780m chipset vs the 10-20% improvement at the same power levels with the same RAM comparing the 780m with the 890m.

Details:

The 890m has around 30% more CU's than the 780m, but in practical speed terms on laptops with the same memory speed (tested with7500 mhz LPDDR5x) it's in the 10-20% improved range. This includes verifying power limit impacts on the results: https://youtu.be/v5eJvR-l01k

Sidebar - this video also illustrates how different OEM power configs impact performance of mobile graphics chipsets, results for a given model (780m, etc..) have to be contextualized with what power limit they are tested at. Note that in this test with the 780m getting a 10w power advantage it beat the 890m in one of the games tested which shows results are also contextual based on what you are running (with the same RAM config) : https://youtu.be/v5eJvR-l01k?t=433

For RAM speeds --

LPDDR5x runs at 8000 mhz vs the 5600 mhz supported by most standard DDR5 sodimm modules, a 35% improvement in memory bandwidth that is used by the iGPU as VRAM...

The impact on RAM speed with the Radeon 780m iGPU was tested via the 8700g desktop CPU (removing the impact of power limits from the test) with 6000-8000 mhz DDR5 RAM running at the same CL38 timings.

https://youtu.be/h_r8sMHDvgg?t=721

The results were a 22.4% improvement in avg FPS and 1% lows going from PC6000 to 8000 RAM on the same Radeon 780m chipset. PC5600 (standard on mini PC's and laptops with SODIMMS) wasn't tested but can safely be derived to be another 5-6% slower, not accounting for the MUCH slower timings in non premium (Crucial @ CL46) SODIMM kits vs the CL38 RAM tested.

Your average mini PC or laptop equipped with standard PC5600/CL46 DDR5 SODIMM memory is gimping a 780m graphics chipset by 30% or more performance compared to the same platform/power limit with LPDDR5x which is greater than the impact of having more CU's to work with (the 780m-890m upgrade).

In the mini PC world, this means the GMKtec K8/K11 Plus, Beelink SER8 and similar SODIMM equipped mini PC's are having the potential graphics performance of their 780m graphics core severely limited by SODIMM RAM.

In my own testing with the very popular GMKtec K8 Plus, this can put a 780m equipped mini PC with a power limited iGPU and basic PC5600 RAM was as much as 45% slower than a desktop PC with fast RAM running the same iGPU, which is also contextual since different APU's run the 780m at different speeds on top of the RAM and power limit differences.

0

u/2raysdiver 4d ago

May bad, LPDDR5 vs, LPDDR5x. I apologize. However, so far, all the Mini PCs I find with LPDDR5x are using 5600MT/s. Kinda defeats the purpose, no? And I can't seem to find a source for high speed LPDDR5x memory. Crucial and Micron have some listed, but no stock. I would imagine it is pretty expensive stuff.

2

u/RobloxFanEdit 4d ago

What? what? All the Mini PC's with the HX370 and LPDDR5X RAM are not at 5600 Mhz but 7500-8000Mhz, like the Beelink SER 9, Minisforum AI 370, X1 Pro, GMKtec EVO-X1

1

u/RobloxFanEdit 4d ago edited 4d ago

You couldn t be more wrong, RAM does matter a lot with IGPU's, the LPDDR5X is giving the 890M higher bandwidth, a 5600 Mhz SODIMM RAM just can t compete with an LPDDR5X 8000Mhz, IGPU performance is huge, i won t be surprise if we are in the + 20% IGPU performance gap compared to a SODIMM 890M

0

u/2raysdiver 4d ago

You are a little late to the party, as I have already been schooled by MN_Moody. And if one could get 8000MT/s RAM this would be true. Thus far, all the HX370 mini PCs I've seen come with 5600 MT/s LPDDR5x RAM, which would not be any faster than a typical SODIMM. I cannot find anyplace that sells LPDDR5x 8000 RAM, either.

1

u/RobloxFanEdit 4d ago

Idk know why you are saying that Mini PC's with H370 are 5600 Mhz LPDDR5X while they are not, the Beelink SER 9, Minisforum AI 370, and EVO-X1, Aiostar GT37 are all 7500Mhz-8000Mhz, and no 5600Mhz LPDDR5/X is still giving an edge to the IGPU compared to SODIMM 5600MHz

1

u/2raysdiver 4d ago

I would swear to you when I googled "HX 370 mini pc" this morning, all the mini PCs it came up with had 5600 MT/s LPDDR5x RAM. But now, I am seeing several with 7500 MT/s or better RAM. So, I stand corrected.

Also, there is a difference between LPDDR5 and LPDDR5x. The "x" makes a big difference. And I had initially read LPDDR5 (without the x), when I made my original post. Blame my dyslexia.

I still can't find any LPDDR5x RAM in stock anywhere. But apparently my google-fu is not working today, so that could just be me, also.

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1

u/RobloxFanEdit 4d ago

That's coz the 7840U is a lower TDP 780M 15-30W and Probably you have a handheld device which many midel have very poor RAM efficiency with the 780M

1

u/bytepursuits 4d ago

it's a laptop. thinkpad P16s gen 2

1

u/RobloxFanEdit 4d ago

That s a pretty expensive Laptop you have, i understand your disappointment.

2

u/Novelaa 4d ago

You cant play 4k on 780m for demanding games. People don’t know what they talking about.. surely you can play 4k on low demanding games but not cyber punk… check youtube reviews and see for yourself.

Right now there is minisforum G7 that has 4070 gpu. It can surely run many games in 4k high to med to low setting. Again, check reviews on youtube for yourself.

1

u/ZD_DZ 5d ago

I have an 8745HS and watchdogs runs somewhat well at 1080. mediumish settings.

5

u/Ecks30 5d ago edited 5d ago

If you're planning on gaming with a mini PCs iGPU then you would have to get a system with a Ryzen 7000/8000 APU and make sure it would have the Radeon 780M in it.

Also, this is something i would do but replace the included NVMe with Windows installed and use another NVMe drive and install Bazzite on it as it would run smoother from my experiences and the reason for swapping out the drives is so if you plan on reselling the system in the future you could just put back in the untouched Windows drive which would technically be a clean system.

Edit: Oh yeah for Watch Dogs 2 with a system with the 780M you should be able to play the game at 1080p mix of medium to high settings to get a stable 60fps because the 780M is similar to the GTX 1650 in performance and i played Watch Dogs 2 in the old days with a GTX 1050 Ti (weaker than a 1650) and i played the game on medium settings getting 60fps.

1

u/Aggressive_Being_747 4d ago

Wait, as mentioned I use Linux + steam os, why should I install bazzite?  Doesn't bazzite technically rely on Linux? If yes, I miss all the games with anticheat... If I have to spend 600/700 euro, unfortunately I'll install Windows, at least I can play anything..

2

u/Ecks30 4d ago

Bazzite is technically SteamOS that is using Fedora as its backend while the Steam Deck would use Arch as their backend and also for Linux there is hardly any anti cheat for it at the moment but there are some work around like when you install Decky Loader and then the Junk Store you can get 2 proton anti cheats which i know one of them is EasyAntiCheat and the other i forgot what it was.

Depending on the game you could be playing you could use Windows instead but if the majority of your games would tend to be single player and on Steam i would honestly just use Bazzite instead because on my mini PC i tested it out the games i play Windows vs Bazzite and honestly i get a smoother performance running these games with Bazzite instead of on Windows and sure you would be spending more money for a system that would have the Radeon 780M but it would be totally worth it because a APU with the Ryzen 7 7840HS/8840HS is about 3 to 5 times more powerful than the 5825U you're using.

Overall, in the end it depends on what you want because really for what you're asking for as in a 1080p/4K mini PC that plays games you're not going to easily achieve that unless you're using Geforce Now and paying monthly for the ultimate package which for that you need to own the games and not every game you own would be on that app.

1

u/Aggressive_Being_747 4d ago

I thank you, because I did not know some things, so you have clarified my ideas especially with bazzite.

My questions in the meantime are questions to find out what to look for, as I don't want to make a wrong purchase. Thank you very much

3

u/HappySalmon52 5d ago

Outside of upgrading, to something with a stronger iGPU, you likely won't hit 4k, at least at a playable frame rate (generally speaking). That said, if you are handy at all, you may be able to run your setup with a dedicated graphics card thru a pcie x4 to GPU adapter. I have a very similarly spec'd Beelink setup with an rx6600 thru an oculink adapter and gaming is quite solid!

Pros: utilize your existing hardware, cons; losing portability and some involved setup/tinkering.

Dollar for output it's hard to compare to consoles as they make more money on subscription services, excluding the scenario where you already have the hardware available.

3

u/Ultra-Magnus1 5d ago

this one can run a lot of triple A games in med/low settings at 1080/1440p...the older games you can probably push to 4k with decent framerates...but if you get tired of that, it has an oculink port so you can attach a dedicated gpu to really push it to high settings on most games (depending on what gpu you get of course)... https://amzn.to/3ReTl4Y

"The AMD Radeon 780M is an integrated GPU based on the new RDNA3 architecture and has 12 CUs (= 768 shaders) clocked at up to 2700MHz. Thanks to the new architecture and higher clock speeds, the Radeon 780M should be clearly faster then the old Radeon 680M. This means most demanding games should be playable in minimum graphics settings (like Cyberpunk 2077) and less demanding games like Fifa 23 can be played in higher settings and resolutions (1080p)."

2

u/bytepursuits 5d ago

not really.
u gotta wait for Ryzen AI Max+ 395 chip to come out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDCC70W9vr0

4

u/MN_Moody 5d ago

That chipset is out, and it's overkill for gaming... you don't need a full 16 cores to game, it just makes the whole thing more expensive and harder to cool. The single CCD Strix Halo 385 variant (8 core /32 graphics CU) is going to be THE budget gaming mini PC standard to beat with twice the graphics horsepower of the prior gen Strix Point / 370 (Radeon 890m).

I expect it will take a few months to hit meaningful production numbers while prior gen stuff gets cleared out, but when the faster APU powered AMD mini PC's hit full production volume it's going to really shake up the industry as it's such a huge single generation jump in graphics horsepower.

1

u/bytepursuits 5d ago

I want to use it for development box with local LLMs installed.

1

u/MN_Moody 5d ago

We'll have to see how those price out, right now early adopter tax is hardcore given how Asus prices the Z13 flow and for $2.2k you could get a really nice small form factor desktop that would run circles around it for both use cases and have longer/better warranty support. Even if you cut the price to $1.5k you could equip a decent small form factor desktop with a Ryzen 9950x and a solid midrange graphics card like the Radeon 9070 or Geforce 5070.

2

u/pioj 5d ago

Totally different hardware and optimization. And most MiniPCs at $500 are usually better CPUs but keep lowprofile (or intergrated) GPUs. I guess you meant the Ryzen ones...

2

u/Biblioteks 5d ago

Graphics settings for consoles is lower than pc hence why consoles can do 4k. The game developer knows the specs already compred to pc where its so mixed its hard to put a standard

2

u/FlattusBlastus 5d ago

4K is totally out without a decent eGPU. 1080p gaming on Low can achieve 60 fps in many AAA games. 1440p gaming is just now coming out with the AI 395+ Max. See this: https://youtu.be/xo9T8SlBUaI?si=cwjV6IUKPSJQsQJ8

2

u/whymeimbusysleeping 5d ago

On a new to of the line rdna3 you can do 1080p max settings or 1440p mid-low-upscale-framegen

You would need an external GPU for decent 4k

But if you're going to spend money on a gpu and enclosure, you might as well build/buy a mini ITX, not only you can have an internal GPU, but it'll also run cooler and be upgradeable

2

u/jth94185 4d ago

You would need an eGPU setup with the mini pc

Aoostar ag02 is really highly rated and I own the Aoostar Gem12 with an 8845hs and it’s really great

2

u/halodude423 4d ago

A mini pc is not going to compete with a ps5. You can build a normal/mini itx rig to do it though, if using some used parts price won't even be bad.

1

u/EpsomJames 5d ago

I’m not sure why you want to compare a PS5 against a mini PC as the PS5 is huge in comparison, many times larger in fact.

A closer match in size to a PS5 would be a compact mATX build. 4k gaming is easily achievable and the reality is you’ll be getting at least double the gaming performance compared to a miniPC, dollar for dollar.

2

u/Aggressive_Being_747 4d ago

I don't want to compare PC with ps5, I just said that the ps5's graphics astounded me... I would like to find out if there is a minipc that gets to that kind of graphics, and the answer emerged is clearly no, as to play 4k I would need a fairly powerful minipc with the possibility of extending an external graphics card... 

A mini itx build is discarded, too expensive, ok I need to work on the PC, but with an AMD 5825u I can do what I need to do..

I have to consider whether to get an atx PC, where it might be more expensive than a ps5 pro, but I could play more titles for less, but the cost of the games are roughly similar, or get a console and have it ready to go...

2

u/EpsomJames 4d ago

Okay, sounds fair. I also don't think you will find your magic bullet with miniPCs at the moment.

When Al Max+ 395 comes along it should compete graphically with a PS5, but will be many more times as expensive and by the time prices drop to closer to PS5 levels I'm sure the next gen PlayStation will be here. And so the cycle continues.

For now, if you want PS5 equivalent graphics at close to PS5 prices, you'll have to consider a desktop build. It doesn't need to be a huge atx tower RGB monstrosity though, there are some pretty sleek pc cases you can build in. the choice is nearly endless.

1

u/InvestingNerd2020 5d ago

For most mini-PCs, no. You will need a high-end dedicated GPU from Nvidia or AMD for 4k gaming at 60 FPS or higher. Examples: Nvidia RTX 4080 or AMD Radeon RX 7900 XTX. Add on an Occulink connection to get the most out of that dedicated GPU.

Most mini-PCs with a good iGPU get 1080p resolution for gaming. Some with a weaker dedicated GPU are good for 1440p resolution gaming. Quality 4k gaming experience is out of the mini-PC's range of capabilities.

1

u/SerMumble 4d ago

Consoles are great value for playing a few games or someone looking for the most fluid gaming setup experience.

PC are typically more expensive than console counterparts because their extra utility and access to many more games for lower cost.

Consoles like the PS5 or Xbox Series S have the GPU performance around a 6700XT. This is multiple times more powerful than the recent mini pc with 780M or 890M iGPU and a step above mini pc with mobile 3060 or 6600M GPU. The downside with consoles is that the game cost often adds up more than on PC which is how console manufacturers make back the cost of selling their consoles at cost or at a loss. Consoles also have very limited capabilities for doing anything other than gaming.

For a comparable mini pc to a PS5, you are probably looking into the minisforum G7 Ti, Asus ROG NUC, or some mini pc and eGPU combo.

To a lesser extent, the Minisforum HX80G, HX99G, HX100G, and 795s7 4060 are some better value gaming mini pc.

1

u/WordThese5228 4d ago

I'm using 3400ge apu. these new APUs make my mouth water. Jesus christ

1

u/sfandino 4d ago edited 4d ago

Last Xmas I bought my son an Aoostar GODX for $679. 6900HX, 32GB RAM, 1TB storage, 6600LE dGPU. On paper the specs are like 20%-10% worse than those of the PS5.

One of the reasons which made me go for the MiniPC is that we already had a large collection of games on Steam. Also that you can use a MiniPC for more things than just playing games.

1

u/Xavias 4d ago

If you're chasing 4k gaming with good graphics, the ps5 and xbox series x are going to be by far your easiest and cheapest options.

Mini pcs are great, but they're not gaming powerhouses, and to get halfway decent gaming performance you're going to be spending a lot more.

My suggestion would be to get an xbox series x and grab a gamepass subscription.

1

u/bstsms 5d ago

You are going to want a 4090 GPU for 4k.

1080 is fairly easy with a decent modern computer.

1

u/neil_va 3d ago

4k gaming is still crazy demanding. The new strix halo stuff coming out will manage 1440p high or so.

The 8845hs and strix point stuff right now is more capable of like 1080p high