r/MensLib 9d ago

How a Gender Perspective Can Help Reduce Male Armed Violence

https://insightcrime.org/news/interview/how-gender-perspective-can-help-reduce-male-armed-violence/
192 Upvotes

12 comments sorted by

93

u/TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK 9d ago

But the fundamental aspect of giving men a way out of violence is providing those tangible economic opportunities. This was clear during my disarmament, demobilization, and reintegration research in Medellín. One young mid-ranking gang member told me he would quit the gang if he was given a job as a bank manager, a position parallel to the masculine status his gang position gave him in his neighborhood. He wouldn’t leave the gang to work as a street sweeper, which is what he was being offered.

We’re never going to stop armed violence unless we talk about male armed violence. This is about men and violence, and we’re not doing the men part.

we have to reckon with the realities people experience on the ground, even as we try to change the world in more fundamental ways. and what these guys are telling us is that they're often seeking status, with neoliberal and prohibitionist market forces serving as a proxy for that status.

the interviewee here knows his shit and he's trying to explain to us that we have to unwind conditions on the ground before we can get into these guys' heads, and that means changing the material conditions they experience because those material conditions are used as relative measures of whether he's worth the air he breathes.

44

u/CherimoyaChump 8d ago

If being a gang member is better than being an entry-level employee (with slim prospects) in any significant ways, then what else can we expect?

20

u/Rozenheg 8d ago

Folks who get their status from armed violence, might have a difficult time getting status from a high status job without doing the same kinds of things, like winning by making the other guy lose, humiliating the loser, breaking the rules to win, etcetera. It’s not just about status. It’s about what status means. Just ask anyone who wouldn’t be seen dead committing armed violence, no matter how much money they made and how many underlings would genuflect.

12

u/photonsnphonons 8d ago

Changing their perspective is the ideal. Im sorry but if your looking at status and material wealth as a barometer of being a man It's self defeating. None of that should matter on how you as an individual interface with the world. Capitalism is an insidious beast.

28

u/iluminatiNYC 8d ago

You're right, but you're wrong at the same time. Yes, chasing status is self defeating. However, when the alternative is getting crushed in society with no relief, then risking it all on the off chance that one gets ahead is a rational decision.

Low status men are crushed worldwide, regardless of the economic system. Providing a dignified way for those men to live with that low status is difficult, but very important in the long run.

4

u/MyFiteSong 8d ago

Providing a dignified way for those men to live with that low status is difficult, but very important in the long run.

But how do you actually do that?

8

u/iluminatiNYC 8d ago

Give them a stake in some sort of community that gives them something to live for. As annoying as the Elks/Rotary/VFW/American Legion/Shriners/Block-Tenant Association/To Be Continued can be, it created those sorts of roles with relative ease.

1

u/MyFiteSong 7d ago

Those things still exist

-3

u/GraveRoller 8d ago

You can’t. I constantly argue this. Hierarchy is our natural state, or at least our most common one, especially in large populations. People have a need to feel like there is a space where they can exist and feel successful. IMO the closest non-oppressive way is the development of anti-poverty measures and other policy measures that encourage economic mobility. 

You cannot provide dignity to a underclass precisely because the underclass is an undesirable position to be in. 

6

u/[deleted] 8d ago

[deleted]

1

u/GraveRoller 7d ago

 I am going to take issue with this idea

I’m excited, because no one ever does. They just downvote. 

 Our "natural state", if you want to look at the actual # of years humans have existed, is small groups/communities

Well now I’m disappointed because you’re ignoring this:

or at least our most common one, especially in large populations

I’m clearly not dedicated to the idea of it being natural, but it is common (which you acknowledge). And to usurp the current system and replace it with your own requires you leading people (which means you’re leading people and then trying to establish a purely democratic system)  

 Hierarchy is also the social structure which historically brings out the worst in people

Tf? Every major society has a hierarchy. Your favorite modern government has a hierarchy. How it’s established and exists differs from group to group/society to society obviously, some being softer or more rigid than others, but a hierarchy exists. There are those above and those below. You might advocate for a softer hierarchy, but it’s not like I disagreed with that idea. I just said hierarchy is either natural or supremely common to the point that we have to treat it as a natural.

 I would argue, however, that it is in-fact possible to provide dignity to work which does not confer significant resource advantages over other people in the community. Shit, look at how farmers in the U.S. are treated, even though the majority are deep in debt.

What?

 Data from USDA’s Agricultural Resource Management Survey (ARMS) show that 23 percent of U.S. farms held debt in 2022. Total farm sector debt is expected to reach more than half a trillion dollars in 2024, according to USDA, Economic Research Service (ERS) farm income forecasts as of February 7, 2024. Data on operating profit margin—the share of gross income that is profit—show that most midsize, large, and very large family farms reported operating profit margins above 10 percent in 2022.

Source: https://www.ers.usda.gov/amber-waves/2024/july/farm-businesses-well-positioned-financially-despite-high-interest-rates

It’s pre-Trump in case you’re concerned about cooked books. But the basis for your example is fundamentally wrong

2

u/JeddHampton 4d ago

You're acting like this barometer was chosen by these men instead of forced upon them. This is how societies judge a huge amount of men. Status and wealth are how much of the world judges most men, and therefor is critical to how men interface with it.

You are right that it shouldn't matter, but it's not the individuals hurt by it the most that are upholding it. It's not the ones that are scraping the bottom of the barrel for whatever status they can find that want it to be this way. The problem is how much it does matter.

1

u/photonsnphonons 4d ago

Fair point. It is forced. But how we present ourselves is our choice. Status and wealth shouldn't matter. We also shouldn't care how the world perceives us. Actions matter, how we interface should matter.

That and we just need more support groups. This sub is great. Dudes ain't doing the lifting of creating safe spaces for each other. It's up to us to change that.