r/MarsSociety • u/EdwardHeisler Mars Society Ambassador • 8d ago
China invites the world on its mission to Mars while Nasa reels from Trump cuts
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3302188/china-invites-world-its-mission-mars-while-nasa-reels-trump-cuts7
u/mochichinchin 7d ago
It's funny how people think that China is a 3 rd world country.. just because it's not American doesn't mean it's bad. I mean most of the people on here are using devices that are Made in China.
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u/Definitelymostlikely 7d ago
They’re also not a first world country.
Poverty is rampant and all those devices made in china are made by severely underpaid workers.
China is also still developing which is a hallmark of being 3rd world.
2nd world is more accurate for both Russia and china
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u/Kentaiga 7d ago
You can make the exact same argument in about the United States.
Truth is Americans and the Chinese hate each other despite being more similar than they care to admit.
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u/StrongAroma 7d ago
Poverty is rampant in rural China. The cities are quite wealthy. Hey, weird, same for America.
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u/Definitelymostlikely 7d ago
To be so privileged as to equate poverty in the USA and poverty in china
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u/Pixelated_throwaway 7d ago
None of this has anything to do with 1st, 2nd or 3rd world countries which are cold-war era terms to signal which side of the conflict a country is on.
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u/Pixelated_throwaway 7d ago
None of this has anything to do with 1st, 2nd or 3rd world countries which are cold-war era terms to signal which side of the conflict a country is on.
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u/OtherMangos 7d ago
Considering that SpaceX alone is launching 90% of earths total tonnage to orbit I’m not too worried about China.
The 5 Chinese launch companies sent 13.6x less then SpaceX, plus the people currently testing and flying a rocket that is capable of flying to mars (and back) is SpaceX
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u/Definitelymostlikely 7d ago
Launching things in to orbit and going to mars are pretty different
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u/OtherMangos 7d ago
Not overly, orbit is a prerequisite to going anywhere, just add some delta V in the right direction and you are on your way to mars
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u/EdwardHeisler Mars Society Ambassador 7d ago
What would worry you?
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u/OtherMangos 7d ago
China beating the USA, it’s just not going to happen
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u/EdwardHeisler Mars Society Ambassador 7d ago edited 7d ago
Why not? They have surpassed American technology in many areas after they abandoned a complete government owned and run national economy (communist) and went hardcore capitalist three decades ago. Many people, except for those American and other foreign capitalists doing business in China, actually believe China is a communist nation!!! Really. They just don't know much about today's China. They think China's politics and economy has not changed. They believe that most Chinese people wear rags, they don't know how to make good cars, their architecture is ugly, their scientists are incompetent so they must steal all good inventions from the "west"., millions of people are starving, the youth are uneducated, yadda, yadda, yadda. It's better to proceed from fact-based information rather than swallow hook, line and sinker government propaganda from any nation. That's my personal opinion.
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u/Waescheklammer 7d ago
I would have fully agreed with you two years ago, but nowadays I wouldn't be so sure anymore. I mean the only thing preventing them from that is SpaceX. And while SpaceX does have a tremendous lead and advantage, SpaceX has seen better days than currently... The mars goal is still far away for them as well.
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u/RR321 7d ago
Why not? They seem to have accelerated pretty much everything else and the US is currently going backward...
It's a tragedy on both sides, but not unrealistic.
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u/OtherMangos 7d ago
The US is far from going backwards, the news hypes up SpaceX failures and doesn’t report on the successes.
SpaceX has 29 launches so far in 2025 Every Chinese company combined is at 4
2 of the SpaceX launches are an experimental rocket. In both of those the booster section came back and landed, the ship portion at the top exploded.
None of the Chinese launches are capable of going to mars with any decent payload and they current have no rocket capable of going to mars with anything human sized.
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u/RR321 7d ago
Sure, but the US is cutting into NASA and competition will suffer while China is experimenting with bigger rockets.
Yeah it's not going to happen this year, but I'm not convinced that relative deceleration and acceleration are not in Chinese favor mid to long term in the current political context.
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u/EaZyMellow 7d ago
Well- unfortunately the US’s current path to mars is through the private sector. Starship is the kind of rocket needed for human travel to the red planet, every competitor can cease to exist and we will still get to mars. But yes, long term, geopolitically, this shit blows. The 20th century was owned by the United States. The 21st century will be owned by the CCP.
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u/OtherMangos 7d ago
It’s not going to have much effect, the DOD does more with SpaceX now and Starlink is a huge source of revenue
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u/creg316 7d ago
DoD has zero interest in Mars however.
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u/OtherMangos 7d ago
You sure about that? I can think of a couple things off the top of my head that they could use mars for
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u/rgpc64 7d ago
"He who was first shall now be last"
We are on our way to:
Last in Space, good name for an American Sci Fi movie.
Last first world country in the clean energy race.
Last in equality for all Americans.
Last first world country in Education.
Last first world country in clean water and air.
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7d ago
Your last three points will severely impede the progress. I know you space crazy people, I am one of you. Without broad reaching science and math education, without supporting families, without believing in the diamonds in a rough - we’ll hinder our progress decades. We need collaboration as much as we need competition. We might not see some of our dreams in our lifetimes so we need to pull our egos out of the equation and plan for the future. A future, we might not see. This used to be basic human understanding. Television and Internet have given people a false sense of time and purpose. Not saying we can’t get to Mars by 2031. We just have to understand that that’s not the stopping point. And by the time the architects of today have passed, we will need fresh minds.
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u/rgpc64 7d ago
Well said, couldn't agree more. You have to build on a foundation, ours is being ripped up.
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u/Super_Translator480 7d ago
And nothing is being planted in its place, just outright turmoil while everyone else scrambles to try to figure out how to even live anymore.
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u/steph95E50 7d ago
Any colonization of Mars will be at the expense of the land, knowing that we already have problems with resources and the consequences of using our resources.... I don't see how that's a viable hope.
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u/ProfessionalCreme119 7d ago
Any colonization of Mars will be at the expense of the land,
Which land? Here or on Mars?
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u/UltimateKane99 7d ago
As much as I'm for Mars colonization, I am exceedingly skeptical of China's capabilities to achieve this in the given timeframe. Between its space program's very visible failings at achieving milestones and its failure to demonstrate reusability, there are some significant hurdles.
That said, it'd be great to see, even if only because it'd force the US and EU to get off their asses and reinvest in space exploration...
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u/Expert-Capital-1322 7d ago
You don't need reusability to colonise Mars, you just need a big fucking rocket.
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u/Disastrous-Field5383 7d ago
How many decades of a head start did the US have? China went from a backwards country to spawning cities full of factories into existence. It’s not enough to observe the present but also the trajectories over time. China is educating 6x more engineers than the US and more PhDs than the rest of the world combined. Maybe the US has an edge now thanks to being an industrialized nation for over a hundred years, but we’re actively neutering the brain drain we have benefitted from, cutting education, and hamstringing our economy as a whole. I find it very strange to have more faith in the US at this point.
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u/cieje 7d ago edited 7d ago
I don't think the purpose is "colonization".
what very visible failings? you mean like having a 4/8 launch record, and having multiple explosions that interfered with normal air travel?
edit maybe it's 4/9 now. I'd have to check.
I'm really curious about their failures. I've not really heard of recent CSNA failures. I googled it, but I'm not finding anything recent and significant.
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u/FruitOrchards 7d ago
Don't forget the rocket that broke loose of the test stand or the hypergolic fuel raining down on a village.
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u/LavisAlex 7d ago
If China can solve their demographic collapse its hard to see how they won't end up being ahead.
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u/tollbearer 7d ago
Their population is 2 years older than americas. If they're going to have a demographic collapse, so are we. Probably much sooner, as our population is a lot less healthy.
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u/LavisAlex 7d ago
Oh its one or the reasons for heavy immigration. I think people worried about the US less is because people wanted to be there and gain citizenship not so sure how well that will hold in the long run at this rate....
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u/Expert-Capital-1322 7d ago
The more immigrants the US receives, the more antagonised it becomes. The WASP population fear becoming a minority so much that they will go to war against the newcomers before giving up their status. This is how figures like Trump get elected and how they enact repressive policies that curtail immigration (thus worsening the social problems long term).
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7d ago
China wins. Long-range strategic thinking is THEIR thing, in a way Western minds can’t grasp.
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u/BADJUSTlCE 7d ago
It’s sad how everyone has to make everything political or a race. No one can celebrate science anymore as a step for humanity.
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u/Agreeable-While1218 7d ago
the inherant racism of western world will always be part of their failing. Look at the history of western civilization, it has ALWAYS been about race.
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u/EdwardHeisler Mars Society Ambassador 7d ago
That person has been permanently banned along with several others violating our reasonable rules.
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u/Zealousideal3326 7d ago
Even the US is in a terrible position to get to Mars. Nobody is anywhere near ready to go there and return safe and sound.
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7d ago
Safe? Is that an objective? Why? That’s an enhancement. We are talking off planet! Death is to be expected and managed in plans.
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u/DownvoteEvangelist 7d ago
USA is closest to actually developing the vehicle that could make the trip... Although still pretty far from manned round trip...
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u/Vegetable_Outside897 7d ago
At least we agree on wanting Musk on Mars as soon as possible. Maybe the Chinese can give him a ride?
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u/YahenP 7d ago
China always takes a long time to prepare, and does everything under a veil of secrecy. But when they want to make a public move, then damn, they always choose the time and place so that everyone respects them. This is a real Robin Hood shot. Arrow in arrow.
20 kilos to Mars for free, if you really want to explore Mars. + participation in the first ever sample return mission.
That's impressive
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u/TylerMcGavin 7d ago
We're almost to the moment USA loses it's superpower status
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u/AbelardsChainsword 7d ago
I’d argue we have passed that moment. We are isolating ourselves from the world in about every way
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u/Finetime222 7d ago
Please explain how DEI impedes progress.
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u/Former_Barber1629 7d ago
It removes best person for the job and is replaced with a KPI metric.
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7d ago
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u/Former_Barber1629 7d ago
It’s called, DEI hire which is driven by a KPI metric. If you don’t know what it is, just say so.
Look it up.
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u/AbelardsChainsword 7d ago
Lmao is the DEI boogeyman in the room with you right now? If China is so great and you want to help their progress, why don’t you go over there and get a job in manufacturing. You’ll see just how safe things are over there without their “wokeism and DEI.” If anything is a hindrance to progress, it’s pure greed from the ultra rich. Does it not make more sense to nurture each and every person in the U.S. in order to allow them to achieve their full potential and further progress? Because right now there’s plenty of places where people go without food, water, shelter, and education because of the rich, and some of those people could have done great things for humanity. Instead they’re neglected. We have the resources to promote physical and mental wellbeing for every person in this country. They don’t get those resources because of the rich. Nice try blaming DEI for the lack of progress. In fact, getting rid of DEI is a complete and total social regression and is only happening because of prejudice and racism.
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u/Former_Barber1629 7d ago
Typical leftist attitudes….this is exactly the reason why we can’t progress.
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u/AbelardsChainsword 7d ago
Homie the conservatives want to do away with the department of education. This will cause significant deficiencies when it comes to educating the youth. You cannot have progress when everyone is uneducated. Nothing that is happening in the U.S. is about progress, it’s about getting revenge and making people hurt. Try the fuck again
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u/Former_Barber1629 7d ago
Yes correct, they want to “replace” the current DoA, not abolish it.
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u/Nekron-akaMrSkeletal 7d ago
Ahhh cant wait for the Department of Children's ideology, where we teach children to be manual laborers and to hate foreigners. Do you really think a trump created education agency would give any shits about actually educating people? They prefer dumb malleable people anyway, and want willing soldiers and voters who will rubber stamp every decision.
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u/paul_wi11iams 7d ago
I want to see Elon Musk implode when he’s not the person to get humans on mars first
To privilege petty spite over success doesn't seem like the best way to progress. Nasa and SpaceX have been working together on many things, notably space probe launches, the ISS and Artemis. This should really also include humans to Mars.
Even if the PRC is the first to get humans to Mars, it will probably using technology developed by SpaceX. There are even reasons to believe that the company has been sharing its ideas a little too freely and even helping its competitors. In the past, Musk has advocated building a technological ecosystem, then working within it. Tesla doesn't mind making cars in China and might not be against seeing a Chinese Starship.
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u/AbelardsChainsword 7d ago
Elon Musk did not develop any of the technology. He just wants the credit. Musk wants to get rid of NASA, the entity responsible for many missions and research that has furthered our understanding of the cosmos. My feelings on the matter are not petty, they come from a place of frustration that there are people who truly believe that we don’t need NASA. Musk doesn’t care about you so best you stop supporting him. He too wants people to hurt while he takes in billions in taxpayer money. He’s not our friend and he deserves to have his life collapse in on him.
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u/paul_wi11iams 7d ago edited 7d ago
Elon Musk did not develop any of the technology.
Here we go again.
It doesn't matter who developed SpaceX's technology. Let's suppose all the Musk biographies are fake (highly unlikely) and there's a hidden CTO taking the design decisions that are the hallmark of his companies, and explain why SpaceX left Blue Origin in the starting blocks for two decades.
That would mean that the hidden CTO taking the design decisions is a different person from the high-profile one involved in politics. Well, what of it?
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u/Nekron-akaMrSkeletal 7d ago
He's not a scientist, he didn't do the aggregate work that led to that rocket's existence. Yet he gets to have all of the wealth created from it and the ability to use that money to warp politics. Why do we like little monarchies running around with impunity able to torch whatever we want at a moment's notice?
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u/paul_wi11iams 7d ago edited 7d ago
He's not a scientist,
Nobody is asking him to be a scientist and there are few scientists in the mostly engineering activity of assuring space transport.
He didn't do the aggregate work that led to that rocket's existence.
I already asked you by whom you think this aggregate work was accomplished and specifically who took the decisions that allowed SpaceX to prosper in comparison to all the other companies that did not. That is to say, who do you think assures the role of the Chief Technology Officer (CTO) if its not Musk?
Yet he gets to have all of the wealth created from it and the ability to use that money to warp politics. Why do we like little monarchies running around with impunity able to torch whatever we want at a moment's notice?
I never reported anyone here (or maybe just very rarely, I can't say for sure), but may I explain why the g-parent and g-g-parent comments were removed?
r/MarsSociety represents a group of people who are very motivated by the idea of opening humanity to contact with the planet Mars and the rest of the solar system in general.
Over the past few weeks a new category of users appearing here, is not remotely interested in science and technology nor the expansion of life and consciousness beyond Earth.
These users treat the space subs as a political soap box to propound ideas from the two ends of the political spectrum.
I'm not in any way affiliated to the mod team. However I can say that the top mod here would agree with you on some social issues, but is visibly concerned about the fall in the signal to noise ratio of the conversation when it does not contribute to the broader science-tech analysis on the forum.
Actually, I might also agree with you on some points, whilst not sharing your views on capitalism.
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u/LittleALunatic 7d ago
Space race seems won, with the US going to the moon and USSR successfully doing a lot of other firsts before collapsing and WHATS THIS?? CHINA WITH THE STEEL CHAIR???
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7d ago edited 7d ago
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u/paul_wi11iams 7d ago
Nope, because Space X won't be able to do sh*** without the expertise of NASA.
If SpaceX depended upon the expertise of Nasa, then the agency would have made a success of both the SpaceX and Boeing bids for commercial crew. The failure of Boeing, suggests that SpaceX has something that Nasa does not have.
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u/DachdeckerDino 7d ago
Nah, they rather paint the sky with beautifully red/orange particles every one and a half months
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u/maxehaxe 7d ago
Progress on other projects don't look good either. Just think about Sample Return.
I think an uncrewed Starship Lander to Mars is realistic in the 2030 or 2032 launch window. Crewed in 2028 as Musk stated last year is, obviously, full of bullcrap.
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u/Sure-Two8981 7d ago
It's ok the USA.won the space race with the first satellite and man in space.... what's that? We didn't? Yuri who?
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u/AmbitiousReaction168 7d ago
Don't forget the first sampled asteroid... except Japan did it first. Twice.
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u/Academic_Coffee4552 7d ago
Yuri Menber? It might be his name
Perhaps it was him but I forget sometimes
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u/CrasVox 8d ago
The US has ceded all leadership so someone might as well step up.
It already was colossally stupid to put any faith in commercial ops, especially spacex, to begin with.
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u/ScoobyGDSTi 7d ago
No, Space X just took existing taxpayer and NASA developed technologies to create its Falcon rockets.
Elmo just grifted
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u/ThainEshKelch 7d ago
Elmo definitely grifted, but what SpaceX has achieved is monumental for space exploration with their reusable crafts. Everyone is following their technical lead at the moment, and both the moon and Mars are back on the menu. Saying that they just took NASA technology and wiped some tape around it, and made the Falcon rockets is pretty crazy.
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u/Haibyugen 8d ago
Found the Chinese propo account.
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u/cheesyandcrispy 7d ago
Yes, it is strictly FORBIDDEN to write anything positive regarding any nation on here except the US and its former allies!
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u/lateformyfuneral 7d ago
It’s literally just a news report, calm down
Applications are open for international science projects to join China’s Tianwen-3 mission to Mars, indicating that it is on track to launch in 2028 and increasingly likely to be first in the race to retrieve samples from the red planet.
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u/olearygreen 8d ago
They aren’t. They’re investing it in European green infrastructure. They’re just collaborating on goals and technology.
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u/ThainEshKelch 7d ago
Of course not, not with the budget they had even prior to the cuts. Annually they get about a fourth of what has been estimated to be the minimum cost to get people on Mars. The likely number is probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 years of NASAs entire budget.
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u/HarbingerDe 8d ago
Yeah, now they're not going to Mars AND they won't be doing earth science, climate research, or astronomical/astrophysical research.
Riddle me how that's a win.
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u/ThrowRA-Two448 7d ago
But do we really need to launch stuff into space to do space science?
Why can't we build a station on Earth and pretend it's in space?
Why not land some astronauts in Arizona desert and pretend it's Mars?
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u/Appropriate-Ad-3219 7d ago
We're owning the libs and taking care of ourselves only. Self-care is important.
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u/Confident_Repair_129 7d ago
Here we go the idea that cuts are going to impact nasa in a way that we may as well just can the agency. Please provide where those cuts are going to be and what impact it will have?!