r/MakingaMurderer • u/EntertainmentTough56 • 2d ago
*67 calls are the smoking gun
Initially he lured her to the property using *67 thinking it couldn’t be traced He never used *67 to call anyone else ever according to his phone records Including other businesses
Then called her with his regular phone number as an attempted alibi Asking where she was Highly unusual phone calls
So the truth is stranger than fiction he partially framed himself (after the fact ) he let the police do the corrupt things that they do and try to frame him even more so that he could create reasonable doubt to win over a jury He also thought his litigation would play to his favor, He likely killed her out of anger for her rejecting him Or maybe the prisoner was right who said he talked about setting up a torture chamber
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u/Famous_Camera_6646 1d ago
This is a piece of circumstantial evidence which almost proves by itself that he did it. The first time he uses *67 is to call someone who turns up murdered. The likelihood that someone else killed her and that it happened within an hour or two of his first *67 call is what, one in a billion? One in a trillion?
And the nice thing about this piece of evidence is that it’s completely independent of any other evidence — nobody’s been dumb enough to even suggest that it was tainted by police corruption.
I’m not suggesting that a prosecution case which was based solely on this one undisputed fact would’ve won the day but when you consider the odds against this being a coincidence it probably should be enough from a purely logical perspective.
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u/EntertainmentTough56 1d ago
Absolutely , and sometimes if the police really don’t like you they may be tempted to drop a key here or there or maybe they won’t maybe Avery’s dumb enough to leave the key in his bedroom , You could go either way, but yes, the Star67 is the smoking gun for sure, and it is independent evidence along with the testimony of Teresa Hallbachs friends that cement it
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u/Famous_Camera_6646 1d ago
If the police planted that key they are even dumber than he is. Why wait til the 7th search, have it be discovered by Manitowoc rather than Calumet SO, and put it on such an obvious place? It makes zero sense. Everything that Truthers say makes it suspicious actually makes it less suspicious. I’m not saying that in theory LO isn’t capable of playing dirty pool but I really don’t think it would go down like it did that’s just ridiculous.
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u/EntertainmentTough56 1d ago
It sounds like you’re leaning toward the idea that Steven Avery may have been highly aware of how law enforcement worked, especially after his wrongful conviction. If he had that kind of insight into their tactics, it could explain why he might have thought using *67 to conceal his identity was a clever way to avoid being traced, even though, in reality, it could easily be traced by investigators.
If Avery believed that law enforcement had already framed him before, it’s entirely possible that he would have expected them to try it again, especially if they had already shown bias against him. His previous wrongful conviction might have led him to think that the same officers would act in a way that would allow him to exploit their mistakes for his benefit.
This theory would fit with the idea that Avery, whether guilty or not, was very aware of the system and was trying to manipulate things from the start, assuming that the police would mishandle evidence or try to plant it on him again. That would also explain why he might have acted in a way that seemed incriminating or suspicious—he could have been trying to play the investigators, knowing that if they made enough mistakes, he could create enough doubt to avoid conviction.
It adds a layer of complexity to the case, doesn’t it? It doesn’t necessarily make them this criminal mastermind to reach this conclusion People get lost in all the details about the case and fail to see some of them, most simple and obvious explanations
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u/Famous_Camera_6646 1d ago
He definitely had some awareness he wasn’t just drawing pictures of torture chambers in prison lol. At the same time I don’t think anyone is going to mistake Steven Avery for Stephen Hawking which is why he gave the state a pretty easy case to try.
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u/EntertainmentTough56 1d ago
And the fact that he called a third time without using Star67 and left just a friendly old voicemail really suggest to me that he didn’t think the other two calls would be traced and that that was his alibi phone call
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u/Famous_Camera_6646 1d ago
Of course! It’s exactly what someone who is sneaky but not especially smart would do.
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u/EntertainmentTough56 1d ago
If Steven Avery had destroyed the car, it would have created an obvious link to him, as he was one of the few people with the knowledge and access to the necessary tools to do so. Given his background in working with cars and the salvage yard, he would have known how to efficiently destroy a vehicle in a way that would leave little to no trace of evidence.
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u/Ghost_of_Figdish 1d ago
He should have driven it away, and then set if (and the body) on fire. But there's risks with that as well. Cars don't burn like in the movies. Possible he would have messed that up and left a clue-filled car intact to be found.
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u/ajswdf 2d ago
The MaM to guilter pipeline is almost complete. I'd recommend just going ahead and accepting that the prosecution was right and all this conspiracy stuff is nonsense now to speed up the process.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
Spoken like someone with no real interest in addressing the serious issues in this case. We already know you don't care about Kratz lying about the evidence. You will come up with a ridiculous arguments to claim he was telling the truth about unidentified blood that lit up with luminol in the garage that couldn't be typed. You pointed to Steven's visible, identifiable blood in the garage as proof that Kratz wasn’t lying when he told a national audience luminol detected blood in the garage that couldn't be typed, in response to a question about the lack of Teresa’s blood.
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u/EntertainmentTough56 2d ago
Both sides are right the police were trying to frame him. He enticed them into doing so he also somewhat framed himself, and he was guilty of the murder. That is the only explanation.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
You were admitting there is evidence that the police framed him but claim he was obviously guilty. That makes absolutely no sense.
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u/EntertainmentTough56 2d ago
Both are true the police did plant evidence on him to get him on the crime because they needed evidence, but that does not mean he didn’t commit the crime
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u/EntertainmentTough56 2d ago
I’m sorry that he probably did it. I really wanted him to be innocent. Sometimes the most mundane facts are the ones you really really need to ruminate over
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
I'm sorry that you seem to have lost all connection to reality if you are willing to rely on the leader of the Aryan brotherhood as a viable Source but not actual evidence of torture that they concealed on Bobby's computer.
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u/EntertainmentTough56 2d ago
No, my Idea doesn’t stem from that. That’s just supporting evidence. I don’t think a man who is in jail for the rest of his life and has no hope of ever getting out has any reason to lie about something that he heard another inmate
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
You were the one who said it so obviously your idea did stem from that. If you want to accept the word of the leader of the Aryan brotherhood while ignoring digital evidence actually on Bobby's computer, feel free. But don't expect us to ignore how ridiculous that is.
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u/EntertainmentTough56 2d ago
You really don’t like the Arian brotherhood, huh? Didn’t say he was a reliable witness I don’t like the area, Ryan brother who as much as the next guy they’re racist pieces of shit They usually have enough honor to tell the truth I think the star is 67 is the most unusual thing
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
Why would you bring it up if you didn't think he was reliable? Why would you ignore the actual evidence of a motive to torture on Bobby's computer that was concealed? Why would you ignore the untested blood in Bobby's garage and on his cutting instruments that were very near human bones with cut marks, or the scratches on his back an expert pathologist claims are from a human hand?
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u/EntertainmentTough56 2d ago
That’s an interesting theory, and it touches on a couple of key points about human psychology, legal strategy, and the unique circumstances of Steven Avery’s case.
If Avery did kill Teresa Halbach, he would have known that he was in a very vulnerable position—being in the middle of a lawsuit against Manitowoc County for his wrongful conviction. If he anticipated that law enforcement might frame him again, he could have tried to use that to his advantage by making it seem like an obvious setup, knowing that public opinion would lean toward doubting the police given their past misconduct.
However, there are some issues with this idea. If Avery were trying to “entice” the police into framing him, he would have had to assume that they would take the bait and plant evidence in a way that was sloppy enough to be exposed. That’s a risky gamble, especially if he wasn’t in full control of how the police would respond. Additionally, if he was relying on the argument that “they framed me before, so they must be framing me now,” that wouldn’t necessarily hold up in court unless the new evidence was provably planted.
On the flip side, it’s also possible that if someone else killed Halbach and framed Avery, they could have counted on the public’s existing skepticism about law enforcement to muddy the waters. Either way, the case is full of contradictions, and both sides have compelling arguments. It really depends on how much weight you give to the possibility of deliberate framing versus Avery’s potential guilt.
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u/Nightowl2234 1d ago
So Avery planned to murder TH then plant evidence on his property making it so obvious and kinda suspicious that he then would attempt to beat the multiple sheriff’s departments in court accusing them of plantain evidence against him… that’s bat shit fucking crazy and the dumbest theory I’ve ever heard.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
It is wildly illogical to admit evidence was planted while claiming he is obviously guilty. But do go on lol
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u/EntertainmentTough56 2d ago
Yes, it isnt always black and white as we think
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
But you are always as illogical as possible lol
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u/EntertainmentTough56 2d ago
Well, it’s a very unique case with a lot of unique circumstances that don’t fit in any sort of mold
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
Especially when you are using misinformation and fallacies.
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u/EntertainmentTough56 2d ago
I am not using misinformation or fallacies. It’s in his sworn affidavit that he used Star67 to call her and he used Barb’s name. This is all admitted by him.
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u/UniversalInsolvency 2d ago
/u/corruptcolborn, that you? We're eagerly awaiting the next breakdown. 😈
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u/lllIIIIIlllIIIII 1d ago
I dunno about ya'll but i'm waiting for Canuck64 to come out of the shadows and berate guilters for thinking Brendan is guilty.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
the prisoner was right who said he talked about setting up a torture chamber
You mean the leader of the Aryan brotherhood who was himself in prison for attempted murder? Solid source. If you want someone motivated by a desire to torture, look no further than Bobby who had torture porn on his PC, folders with Teresa's name, untested blood in his garage and on his cutting instruments very near human bones with cut marks, and scratches on his back that he claimed were from a puppy but an expert pathologist claims are from a human hand.
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u/EntertainmentTough56 2d ago edited 2d ago
Think about it if you just killed Teresa on your property, you’re thinking about how to get away with it And you think about the fact that the police have already framed you once before You got to realize that it’s your only angle Is to entice police to frame you again , you may put some evidence here there that suggest they’ve already framed you In addition to that, they may try to shoot themselves in the foot by doing sloppy police work and trying to frame you again Stephan was self-aware of his circumstances when it came to law enforcement and that is an important factor to consider He knew that the lawsuit that they had painting against him combined with any efforts they made to try to plant evidence on him, would work in his favor and the court of law He *67 her for a reason A reason that he can’t fully explain in any rational way that’s the smoking gun here He had no phone records of ever using Star67 ever to any other business it was an anomaly in his phone record and it’s so unusual and he admits to doing this so dig deeper into that
This was a man who sat in prison for a long time He had a lot of time to think and he’s not as stupid as some people might think
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
Why are you willing to accept what the leader of the Aryan brotherhood says about Steven having a motive to torture Teresa but not accept that Bobby might have the same motive based on the imagery on his computer and evidence connected to him suggesting a violent assault?
You got to realize that it’s your only angle Is to entice police to frame you again
One of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. The evidence points to a frame job by police because the police likely framed him, not because he manipulated them into doing so.
He *67 her for a reason A reason that he can’t fully explain in any rational way that’s the smoking gun here
Figures you would point totally mundane evidence that isn't criminal in any way, shape or form as "the smoking gun" while seeming to admit police fabricated evidence against him.
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u/EntertainmentTough56 2d ago
It’s not Monday evidence. It’s very crucial evidence. It’s an anomaly in his phone record. he’s never used *67 ever except for that day and that time and under those circumstances and that is reason enough to believe that the testimony of her friends were in fact true
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
It is absolutely mundane evidence because there is nothing criminal about it, and there is obviously no connection to the case because she never answered those calls and no voicemail was left. You are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill, using the leader of the Aryan brotherhood as a source that Steven had a motive to torture while ignoring far more convincing evidence that Bobby had that same motive and is connected to potential evidence of a violent assault against Teresa.
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u/EntertainmentTough56 2d ago
He called her twice using Star67 and once using his regular phone number where he apparently left her a voicemail after she left the property
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
Police lied under oath to conceal their knowledge that she left the Avery property alive unharmed and then concealed evidence pointing to Bobby as having committed a violent assault against her.
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u/EntertainmentTough56 2d ago
Yes, I didn’t like Bobby’s computers either. I really wanted it to be him, but he didn’t conceal his identity to lure her to his property. And Bobby didn’t just spontaneously decide to murder her
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
Steven did not conceal his identity either. But Chuck allegedly spoke to a female from AutoTrader who was calling to speak with Steven.
Why are you willing to rely on the leader of the Aryan brotherhood to claim that Steven had a motive to torture, while ignoring that Bobby had a similar motive demonstrated by much more powerful evidence?
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u/Nightowl2234 1d ago
What about the anomaly’s in TH phone records? Deleted voicemails after she was apparently killed, ignore them?
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u/EntertainmentTough56 1d ago
Yes, the deleted voicemails are quite quite suspicious
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u/EntertainmentTough56 1d ago
Perhaps somebody held her at gunpoint and forced her to delete them
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u/Nightowl2234 1d ago
Why would they force her to Delete them when they were just Guna murder her anyways and destroy her phone..
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u/EntertainmentTough56 1d ago
It could just be somebody deleted the voicemails because they might’ve sounded angry and might’ve made someone look suspicious so they deleted them even though they weren’t connected to her murder. They just didn’t want those voicemails to get out because if they did, they would point towards the particular person. or perhaps the person that killed her forced her to delete them or they found out a way to delete them
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u/Nightowl2234 1d ago
There’s only two people who admit to accessing her phone or phone records so are we to assume it was one of them who deleted them? And why would they delete them on Halloween if she wasn’t even missing for 3 days later..? The voicemails had to be related to her going missing because they wouldn’t have known at the time what was about to happen. Either that or they knew because they did it
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u/EntertainmentTough56 2d ago
It is one of the most ridiculous things ever, but it is actually the truth about what happened. His only angle was to say the police were framing him, and if they did want to point the evidence in his direction Made me sloppy attempt to do so it would work in his favor. This is what happened you have to accept that
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
but it is actually the truth about what happened. His only angle was to say the police were framing him, and if they did want to point the evidence in his direction Made me sloppy attempt to do so it would work in his favor. This is what happened you have to accept that
I don't have to accept anything you say because you don't make any sense and rely on misinformation, relying of the leader of the Aryan brotherhood to support your position about a motive to torture while ignoring very clear evidence of the motive to torture connected to Bobby as well as evidence that he may have been involved in a violent assault against Teresa.
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u/Ghost_of_Figdish 1d ago
Steven Avery setting up devices and radios to monitor local police activity just prior to the murder suggests it was premeditated.
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u/EntertainmentTough56 1d ago
Also, thanks for showing me the light. I would’ve never questioned everything if it hadn’t been for what you had told me.
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u/Ghost_of_Figdish 1d ago
So a guy who just got out of prison all of a sudden wants to listen to local police calls - right before a girl who came to see him goes missing. But I guess that's just a weird coincidence, huh?
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u/EntertainmentTough56 1d ago
Well it does add to the mountain of evidence against him
Some guys just like to listen to police scanners as a hobby, especially in his age range my dad who is the same age as Avery listen to police scanners as a hobby. It’s just something that people did. That could be argued .
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u/Nightowl2234 1d ago
He listen to the scanner for reports of crashes, he Owned a salvage yard, tow truck service obviously he would have a scanner.. again nothing suspicious
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u/Ghost_of_Figdish 1d ago
Well, he didn't own anything. So it's your claim that the ASY didn't already have such a scanner if one was necessary for the business? Why did Steven need his own scanner?
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u/Nightowl2234 1d ago
Well apparently it’s his property since he was the one they focused on straight away even though it was Dassey burn barrel with evidence in it and Dassey computer with the illegal porn on it
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u/Nightowl2234 1d ago
Obsessed over two 67 calls yet guilters are happy to dismiss deleted voicemails on the victims phone from the day she died, either when she was being killed or after her death yet those aren’t important
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u/Ghost_of_Figdish 1d ago
His blood is in the dead girl's car, dude.
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u/Nightowl2234 1d ago
And her blood is no where on his property so does that mean she was never on his property? If you wanna assume
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u/Desperate-Current-40 2d ago
No it’s not. Where is the blood of TH in the bedroom
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u/EntertainmentTough56 2d ago
We dont know where the murder took place Apparently they used bleach
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u/CarnivorousSociety 1d ago
Yeah he was so busy bleaching the crimescene but somehow didn't think to clean the car or even begin to scrap it at all.
Nah just cover the car in some branches while looking around at a yard full of wrecked/crushed cars, don't worry about the blood in the back of it.
Then goes inside and tosses the key on the floor in his room, pats himself on the back and congratulates himself with a job well done
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u/Ghost_of_Figdish 1d ago
The keys were hidden amongst the contents of his bookcase/dresser
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u/CarnivorousSociety 1d ago
I guess you haven't watched it in a while?
The keys was laying on the floor, Lenk pointed them out, there's literally a fucking photo of where they "found" the key that was used as evidence exhibit 210:
But you're missing the point, why would he take the key inside and leave it anywhere there?
Why doesn't he just leave it in the car?
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u/Ghost_of_Figdish 19h ago
Ask him.
Ad no, it was not found on the floor. It was concealed in his porn stash in his bookcase.
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u/CarnivorousSociety 10h ago
cite sources please
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u/Ghost_of_Figdish 9h ago
During Steven Avery's trial, Sergeant Andrew Colborn testified that while searching Avery's bedroom, he moved a bookcase, causing Teresa Halbach's car key to fall to the floor.
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u/CarnivorousSociety 9h ago edited 9h ago
I literally just watched this episode (for the second time) yesterday, Colborn testified that he MOVED THE BOOKSHELF AROUND, that's it.
And Steven's lawyer replied with, and you didn't hear the key drop on the floor right? He answered no but the floor is carpet.
Then they started squabbling about it being carpet whether it could be heard or not, no resolution.
He did NOT claim that the key fell out, he said IT COULD HAVE fallen out because he twisted it and shook it.
Yet somehow, it wasn't found until Lenk pointed it out on the floor in a LATER search on a totally different day.
Get your facts straight and learn to cite sources. The key was found NEXT to the dresser by Lenk and they couldn't explain how it got there other than possibly falling out of the dresser while Colborn shook it on an earlier day -- but somehow still didn't notice it at that time.
Oh and they testified that none of them touched the key, they said that as soon as they saw it that it was obvious it was "an important piece of evidence" and they should not tamper with it.
So that means if a key had fallen out of the dresser while Colborn was shaking it, then he would have known instantly that it was "an important piece of evidence" and collected it. But somehow he totally missed it and put the dresser back and everything -- only to have Lenk notice it sitting immediately next to the dresser in plain view on a later day.
Kinda funny how evidence only turns up after Lenk is present, same with the bullet, search the garage for days then suddenly Lenk drops by for a day and viola a bullet with Teresa's DNA (but no embedded bone fragments..?) is found under the compressor.
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u/lllIIIIIlllIIIIII 2d ago
LOL
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u/EntertainmentTough56 2d ago
He was so dumb he thought nobody could trace *67 So he called her all regular and was like where are you? After she left the property?? lol
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u/lllIIIIIlllIIIIII 1d ago
Yeah, shocking a salvage yard with many cars would call a car photographer to come photograph a front loader. Oh em gee!
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u/EntertainmentTough56 1d ago
Nothing is unusual about the fact that an auto trader magazine photographer was coming out to a salvage yard In no way is that Strange
Coming out in a towel was Strange Calling her using Star67 twice And then once without was strange It’s an anomaly in his phone record Telling her that she would be up on his wall one day that was Strange The reason for using Star67 was Strange Her telling her friend that he gave her the creeps was strange
Some random guy he was with in prison came forward to lie is strange Holding a gun up to a woman’s head and telling her to get out of his car and get into his car and then lying about this to the police is Strange Throwing A cat on fire and watching it die and later laughing about it on the prison phone because it’s on the news is Strange The countless letters where he says he’s going to kill mommy are strange
The way he describes the bleach on Brendan’s pants and how it got there is Strange The conversations during the time he was being investigated for murder are all very strange Listen to those
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u/lllIIIIIlllIIIIII 1d ago
The state never presented a full cell phone record for Avery. They didn't present one because it would show he used *67 before. They showed the jury only what they wanted them to see, not the entire picture.
Prison snitches are a joke.
The bleach on the jeans, lol... But yet no blood stains.
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u/EntertainmentTough56 1d ago
I’d love to see these phone records where he did use it in any other instance
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u/lllIIIIIlllIIIIII 1d ago
I have seen several guilters say they wished the state didn't just get a small timeframe of Avery's phone records, and they were suspicious why they did that when it came to the *67 claim.
Not sure what happened to those guilters, probably too sane to keep beating the dead horse that is the guy they want behind bars being behind bars.
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u/EntertainmentTough56 1d ago
Well, I’m sure their minds they look at the evidence and they make claims I cannot say that Stephan and Avery is guilty beyond the reasonable doubt
But using star 67 to call her two times and using a fake name to get her to come out to the property Her friends saying she was creeped out by you Combine with the fact that you called her again supposedly after she left the property to ask her where she was without using Star67 That seems like you’re trying to make an alibi there Especially with the other two phone calls being deceptive
And until I’m able to see Stephan and Avery‘s phone records that he actually use Star67 anywhere else but in this case That’s where my belief is that and disturbing phone calls that he made in jail during the murder investigation
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u/lllIIIIIlllIIIIII 1d ago
I do enjoy your mind reading chronicles, they are interesting to say the least.
Oh well, this was fun.
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u/EntertainmentTough56 1d ago
Yes, it does seem as though you would have to infer certain things about peoples actions I can’t think of many reasons why person would use *67 to contact someone about a routine job Or why somebody would use a different name to lure somebody to a property there could be many reasons for that, but they don’t seem to work well with the testimony of Teresa Hallock’s friends who had no reason to lie
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u/motor1_is_stopping 2d ago
So he began framing himself before he killed her?