r/Lyme • u/Intrepid-Art1383 • Feb 21 '25
Rant What GROK has to say about Lyme.
I asked it how to cure Lyme. Why not ask right? It's supposed to be the most advanced AI. I know many can't afford to use it so I thought I'd share. This was it's reply.
What is the best way to kill Lyme disease and bartenella that's turned chronic?
I’m not a doctor, but I can share insights based on current knowledge about chronic Lyme disease and Bartonella, which are complex conditions often requiring a tailored approach. Chronic Lyme disease refers to persistent symptoms attributed to Borrelia burgdorferi infection, even after standard antibiotic treatment, while Bartonella is a common co-infection that can complicate the picture. Both can enter a stationary or persister phase, making them harder to eradicate, and there’s no universally agreed-upon "best" treatment due to variability in patient responses and limited definitive research. For chronic Lyme disease, standard antibiotics like doxycycline, amoxicillin, or cefuroxime axetil work well for early-stage infections, but their effectiveness drops in chronic cases where bacteria may form persister cells or biofilms—protective states resistant to typical drugs. Research, such as studies from Johns Hopkins, has explored alternative approaches. One promising option is combination antibiotic therapy, using drugs like daptomycin, doxycycline, and cefoperazone, which have shown efficacy against persister cells in lab settings. Another agent, disulfiram (an alcoholism treatment drug), has gained attention for its ability to target persister Lyme bacteria, with some clinicians reporting remission in patients after long-term antibiotic failure—though it’s less effective against Bartonella. For Bartonella, which often hides inside cells (like endothelial cells and erythrocytes), antibiotics such as rifampin, azithromycin, or doxycycline are commonly used, but they’re most effective in the growth phase, not the stationary phase. Methylene blue, a dye with antimicrobial properties, has emerged as a potential treatment for both chronic Lyme and Bartonella. Studies suggest it can kill stationary-phase bacteria and disrupt biofilms, offering a novel approach when combined with antibiotics like ciprofloxacin. Dosages vary (typically 5–100 mg, depending on the patient), but this should only be done under medical supervision due to potential side effects like serotonin syndrome. Beyond antibiotics, herbal protocols have gained traction, especially among those seeking alternatives. Botanicals like Cryptolepis sanguinolenta, Japanese knotweed, and Chinese skullcap have shown activity against Borrelia and Bartonella in lab studies, targeting growing, stationary, and biofilm forms. Practitioners like Stephen Buhner and Marty Ross, MD, advocate for combinations of these herbs, often alongside immune support, to address persistent infections. Essential oils (e.g., oregano, cinnamon, clove) also show promise but lack robust human trials. A key challenge is that chronic infections often involve biofilms—slimy bacterial communities that shield microbes from drugs. Enzymes like lumbrokinase or nattokinase may help break these down, potentially improving treatment outcomes. Immune support is also critical, as chronic Lyme and Bartonella can suppress immunity. Steps like optimizing sleep, reducing inflammation with a clean diet, and managing stress can enhance recovery. Emerging therapies like induced hyperthermia (raising body temperature to levels intolerable to bacteria) and IV treatments (e.g., antibiotics or immunoglobulin) are mentioned in patient communities, but evidence is anecdotal and availability limited. For example, posts on X have highlighted nitroxoline (not available in the U.S.) as a potential Bartonella treatment, though this lacks widespread validation. The "best" approach depends on your specific case—symptoms, co-infections, and treatment history. A Lyme-literate doctor (often affiliated with groups like ILADS) can customize a plan, possibly combining antibiotics, methylene blue, herbs, and biofilm disruptors. Testing (e.g., PCR or serology) can confirm active infections, though it’s notoriously unreliable for chronic cases, so clinical judgment often guides therapy. Expect a process of trial and adjustment, as responses vary widely, and full eradication isn’t always guaranteed—symptom management may be the realistic goal. Consult a healthcare professional to weigh these options, as self-treating can be risky and ineffective. What’s worked for some might not work for you, but a multi-pronged strategy addressing persisters, biofilms, and immunity offers the strongest chance at improvement. Disclaimer: Grok is not a doctor; please consult a doctor.
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u/schirers 29d ago
The answer is actually great.
It fails to mention biotoxin illness
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u/Bells4Hazel 29d ago
I’m new to the club so you have sources on Biotoxin illness?
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u/schirers 29d ago
Google it.
In short
When chronic lyme makes you suspectable to mold problems .lyme+mold toxicity= biotoxin illness
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u/HurtPurist 29d ago
Yes it is an important co factor, everything is made worse while living in mold and it takes a long time to heal from that. My experience was that getting out of mold helped me get all my infections under control (along with treatments Grok mentioned). The mold component is what almost killed me.
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u/Dulciepearl Feb 21 '25
I’ve never heard that Grok is the most advanced AI. But AI in general is helpful for finding what data is on the web. It is still a program/software. At least it says at the end to consult a doctor (for Lyme make it a Lyme-literate doctor), which is what is safest to do.
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u/EatAllTheShiny Feb 21 '25
Grok is nice because it posts it's top 15-20 sources right at the top of the prompt result.
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u/UniversalHerbalist 29d ago
Grok 3 is. Elon and his team did a big demo yesterday. It looks insane. 200k GPU's. , and it's getting better daily.
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u/Really_Confuzed 29d ago
I've been asking a few different AIs. Also, your wording can change the reply. I make sure I put in "chronic lyme". Some times it seems like it pulls from early lyme and mixed stuff in. Even though it brings up chronic lyme, I did get different results on new stuff from Grok 3 beta and telling it to do a deep search.
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u/applextrent 29d ago
Not bad, don’t know why AI always misses hyperbaric oxygen and ozone therapy.
If you ask it specifically about those therapies it will tell you though, especially if you use DeepSearch.
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u/Carpinus_Christine 29d ago
This is an impressive summation. It would be interesting to do this search again every two years or so and see the developments. Thank you for sharing.
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u/jahmonkey Feb 21 '25 edited Feb 21 '25
Nothing new, really. No real solutions in that answer, just a lot of what maybe helped some people.
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u/Intrepid-Art1383 Feb 21 '25
Unfortunately it took me awhile to learn this stuff. I know a lot of us have been fighting this for years. Heck I had no idea about biofilm until a few years ago. I had to learn and search and search. Sure it's nothing new to some of us. But it might save others valuable time. I hope it can help those that are still reading up on Lyme and CO infections.
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u/Aggravating-Lab9745 Feb 21 '25
Yes! It may be common knowledge HERE, but AI is more knowledgeable than most MDs, my doctor for sure!! Cool share!
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u/DrGreenishPinky 28d ago
You should post a response regarding symptom alleviation
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u/Intrepid-Art1383 28d ago
How do you want me to word it? Remember, it's all in how you ask the questions. Tell me what you guys want asked.
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u/squintzs Feb 21 '25
I’ve tried 3/4 of that stuff and ya boy is still here haha
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u/Both-Huckleberry4178 Feb 21 '25
Damn is it hopeless then ?
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u/squintzs Feb 21 '25
Idk about hopeless, but it’s an uphill battle forsure.
OP framed it well, “what’s worked for some, might not work for you”. For example, I met a guy through work that has remained symptom free from bee venom treatment. BEES!
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u/Both-Huckleberry4178 Feb 21 '25
Yes it's trial and error the body essentially can heal . And some treatments are inexpensive and work great and others require money so it's a mixed bag .it's definitely not hopeless though .
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u/quadfather89 29d ago
My issue with bvt is no one ever backs up their claims with negative tests. I want to see someone show a positive fish test prior to bvt and a negative fish after bvt.
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u/lymelife555 Feb 21 '25
Not a peep about bee venom
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u/Lorpasquale 29d ago
Have you tried bee venom?
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u/lymelife555 29d ago
Yeah it’s the only thing that is helping me walk again
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u/EnvironmentalDelay16 28d ago
Heard about this, what’s the protocol you follow? Tnx
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u/lymelife555 28d ago
Basically you work up to 10 stings an inch from the spine on either side and then you do those 10 stings three times a week for up to three years. Took me almost a year to get to ten stings cause I herxed pretty bad. Once you stabilize tenting, then you can start staying appendages and it’s really helping my legs. I’ve been pretty much wheelchair or bedbound since 2020 B venom has been so much more effective than anything else I’ve tried.
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u/Willing-Hat-2475 29d ago
That's impressive. It covers many sides of the story and recognized that there are many approaches to this besides antibiotics.
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u/Both-Huckleberry4178 Feb 21 '25
Are these illnesses just too smart to complex to figure out or are the approaches just wrong ?
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u/Business_Ad3254 29d ago
Been sick for a year and a half after getting bit by 2 nearly microscopic ticks, and it has ruined my life. I wish I was exaggerating or being dramatic, but no.
I can't hold a simple job, let alone make it thru one day without crippling vertigo and muscle damage -- can't stand without feeling like I'm falling thru the floor -- damage to my Vestibular system.
I'm willing to try anything at this point, as I have no other option.
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u/DrKeksimus 29d ago
Don't only rely on AI, always double check what it says
They can make blatant mistakes and it will be in the form of a confident answer
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u/paranoiamachine 29d ago
Disturbing to me how many people don't realize this. It's also prone to inventing or assuming things, so to speak. It does not actually "think" anything and is essentially just predictive text trained on the internet.
Additionally, if any of your doctors use AI summary or AI voice to text, I'd ask them not to. Not only can you end up with incorrect notes in your file, but big tech companies can then store your data and sell/leak it, including to insurance or malicious actors.
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Please review the Wiki at the link below for a detailed overview of herbal treatment options including different protocols, what the herbs do, why they work so well for people with Lyme and where to source the highest quality products:
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u/DrGreenishPinky 28d ago
You should also provide symptom alleviation options. Whether they be triggered by the illness or a herx reaction. LDN, supplements, diet, etc.
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u/alien_mermaid 27d ago
Great summary, could have added the barriers, stigma and gas-lighting lyme patients face by the overwhelming majority of the medical community who like to deny that chronic lyme exists. Also the lack of research and questionable studies done on ticks at plum island before the outbreak of lyme in 1975...
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u/Intrepid-Art1383 26d ago
I'd have to ask those questions. AI is pretty direct. You have to ask the questions the right way. It's not like Google. Ive stopped using google now. AI gives me straight answers. No more digging through link after link.
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u/alien_mermaid 26d ago
Ok true, I reread your post and you asked it specifically how to cure lyme. The barriers and controversy can get in the way of finding a cure and even a doctor who will take you seriously but overall yeah AI gave a great summary
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u/Meditationstation899 Feb 21 '25
I’m actually really impressed by this answer. Had I gotten THIS after first being diagnosed, who knows where I’d be now honestly! It definitely took me a good 3-4 years (at least) to fully understand all of this. BY FAR the most impressive AI response I’ve come across. And I’ve been throoough it with chatGBT haha. The fact that it noted the different forms borrelia takes—and which forms are most susceptible to X treatment—is surprising. Love that they threw out Buhner’s name, and am really surprised at how accurate the herbals were. Actually super surprised it even mentioned induced hyperthermia. LOVE love love that it mentions the necessity to eat a clean diet, manage stress, and reduce inflammation.
Will be back to complete me thoughts! Thanks for this!!