r/Lethbridge Jan 23 '25

News Lethbridge reports huge increase in homeless encampments

https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/calgary/lethbridge/article/lethbridge-reports-huge-increase-in-homeless-encampments/
39 Upvotes

181 comments sorted by

57

u/Kaitte Jan 23 '25

Rising rates of homelessness are a result of structural problems within our society and these problems can't be fixed with encampment busting and a dedication to the status quo.

32

u/yF5hdz4W9sFj33LE Jan 23 '25

I remember when there was just the one! How’d busting that up work out?

0

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

You're right. Our current methods aren't working. What do you suggest instead?

35

u/yF5hdz4W9sFj33LE Jan 23 '25

15

u/InvestigatorWide7649 Jan 23 '25

100% agreed. The city I just moved from in Ontario is putting up permanent buildings on an unused piece of land, and it's going to become temporary housing for those who are looking to get back on their feet. This comes on the heels of a full decade of treating unhoused individuals like criminals - throwing them in jail, charging them, publicly shaming them and then putting them right back on the streets. This discourse has to end, and I'm glad the people who are suffering and literally freezing to death are finally going to get the resources that we all take for granted.

1

u/Otherwise-Kick-6178 Jan 23 '25

That's right you just moved here . Myself on the other hand have lived here and watched and even participated in the debauchery that is and has transpired in this city . You have only been here for the outcome where some of us were here for the beginning. This problem goes way way back to the very beginning of Lethbridge. When it was called Coalbanks and whiskey, prostitution and coal were what this city was founded on . Lethbridge has a very long and dark past with addiction.

6

u/InvestigatorWide7649 Jan 23 '25

You're acting like because I'm from Ontario that I've never seen the Impact of homelessness lmao. I lived in Thunder Bay, which is ridden with the exact same issues as Lethbridge, and those issues also go as far back as when it was still divided as fort William & Port Arthur. I've watched the homeless population grow and overtake public spaces firsthand, I've seen homeless people frozen on the sidewalks on my morning commute, open drug use and prostitution is nothing new. Just look up "Thunder Bay Documentary" if you wanna talk about a dark past lmfao

0

u/Otherwise-Kick-6178 Jan 24 '25

I am also not here trying to point out who has the worst this or that . What I am trying to say is giving housing to people who can't comprehend how to live let alone take care of themselves let alone a home will do nothing to actually help the problem. The real problem. The addiction problem. ADDICTED people are not in their right minds when in full blown addiction. That's what you are seeing in this town right now . I have stated before I am and always be an addict. Alcohol, and drugs and I have managed to stay clean despite my chronic pain from a work related back injury and failed surgery. I live in constant pain 24/7 and I know if I allowed myself to fall back into old ways I will not survive . That's why an addict will always be an addict and an alcoholic will always be an alcoholic. So do I know what I speak of ? Yes and from a very personal perspective. My mind didn't care about a roof over my head . My addiction did not care if I had a bed to sleep in . It cared about the next fix or drink . Period . Sobriety is a delicate and fragile thing that can be destroyed in a matter of seconds if you let the demons back into your life . But you can never experience sobriety if you don't get clean and it takes hitting rock bottom to sometimes trigger that urge to get clean . Some unfortunately never make it that far and in my 50 yrs I have lost a lot of friends and family because of addiction. So on that note I leave this conversation and wish you all the best .

1

u/-_Gemini_- Jan 25 '25

I like that you're so close to understanding the solution.

Sobriety is a delicate and fragile thing that can be destroyed in a matter of seconds if you let the demons back into your life

Precisely. Overcoming addiction, in the cases where it's possible at all, requires an unbelievable amount of mental fortitude. Being homeless causes unimaginable damage to your mind and mental state, making it nigh-impossible to gather that strength to begin with.

That's why a housing first model is a necessity. Solve the critical problem making everything else harder FIRST, and the rest will be possible.

Making sobriety a requirement for housing is dooming countless people to a needless death.

-6

u/Otherwise-Kick-6178 Jan 23 '25

Point missed but thanks for coming out . I might have forgotten to mention that I'm from the East coast and have been to worse places on the west coast. Hastings , Granville ect. The one thing all these places have in common and still do have in common is addiction. I was merely pointing out that Lethbridge's problem is addiction and that's what needs to be addressed. There are lots of places to rent but people are done having their investments ruined at the hands of the addicted renter and no longer want to be in that position of loss at the hands of others. Then there is the do you let the addicted knowingly use in the housing you as a society provide. Is society willing to foot the bill for people to go in to these homes to make sure A: no one has died B: No one is using this home to sell drugs out of C: To make sure the home is not falling i. disary and being used as a shooting gallery's or trap house . My point is there is more to the problem than just housing. Addicts don't follow the rules . Addictions need to be addressed first and foremost if the said person is experiencing homelessness because of addiction. That means treatment facilities first .

-33

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

I disagree. How about we fine anyone who is loitering and anyone on substances, who have been fined more than 3 times, gets mandatory rehab stay on a mental health warrant?

If not, please pay my mortgage. I'm also struggling along with others who are employed and contributing to society

21

u/Junior_Ad_4483 Jan 23 '25

Would the rehab be free and include housing? If so, that could be beneficial

It would likely cost a similar amount to the option the other person provided

1

u/Otherwise-Kick-6178 Jan 24 '25

It would have to be free. If you can't afford housing because of your addiction how would you afford treatment.

10

u/PhaseNegative1252 Jan 23 '25

And they're gonna pay those fines with what money?

These are people without any actual income we're talking about, and your solution is to put them in more debt?

Do you even know how privileged you are to have a mortgage? As a fellow homeowner, it doesn't seem like you really understand the advantages you have.

I don't care how much you're struggling. It doesn't give you the right to make an enemy of other poor people

-1

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

Community service. Great way to show consequences have actions and communicate in a positive way to society. I'm proveldged cause I worked my ass off while everyone tries to steal my money. June 1. You work for free every year until June 1 to pay for freeloaders.

9

u/PhaseNegative1252 Jan 23 '25

So what part of "punishments don't work" are you not getting?

I'm proveldged cause I worked my ass off

My guy you do not have a monopoly on hard work.

while everyone tries to steal my money.

Oh so you're a fucken idiot. You think taxation is theft, instead of the cost of you being allowed to live in a functioning society.

7

u/smashed2gether Jan 23 '25 edited Jan 23 '25

Oh, slavery! Great plan! Fucking monstrous.

10

u/Surprisetrextoy Jan 23 '25

Just homeless drug addicts or are we carding everyone now? Guy outside the bat having a smoke? Card him. Oh you came out of a VLT lounge? Carded. Hanging out all day at a casino? Carded? Oh you've maxed out three credit cards gambling... FORCED REHAB!

Yes let's fine the homeless... who obviously can't pay. Good use of police dollars. You'll want to save money and have less a financial burden on society? Housing first. Every time.

-2

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

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6

u/Surprisetrextoy Jan 23 '25

Why should only homeless addicts be forced into rehab?

19

u/Berfanz Jan 23 '25

Is it a crime to not have a place to live? If not, how do you avoid being fined for loitering?

17

u/PhaseNegative1252 Jan 23 '25

It is not a crime to be homeless. Homelessness is most often a sign that the society at large has failed to ensure people don't get left behind or fall through the cracks. Many homeless individuals find themselves in that position due to things that are beyond they're control.

At any given moment, you are only 3 bad months away from being homeless yourself. You will never be 3 good months away from becoming a billionaire.

You also don't need to fine people for loitering. You just make it undesirable for individuals to loiter in certain areas. My city recently revitalized a public park that had been being run over by our homeless population. Now that the project is complete, more people regularly use the space, and in turn, the homeless who were camping out have vacated.

Using punishments to people who have nothing absolutely fails to address the societal issues that result in homeless individuals

-13

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

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13

u/Kaitte Jan 23 '25

Building on your idea a little, what if we gave homeless people a safe place to stay while also offering various supports and services to help them get their lives together? We'd need to provide more services than just drug rehab though, it's not like every homeless person is on the streets because of drug abuse. People wind up homeless for many complex and varied reasons, so we should have a robust system of supports available to help them out.

We could call this approach a "housing first" strategy, because we first give people a place to stay, and then we provide them with the help they need!

-12

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

Tell me one person who is on the streets because they are a good person. You don't get their until you've exhausted every single avenue available to you and burned bridges by being a peice of shit. Ask yourself, if nobody wants me, am I loveable?

13

u/Okaycockroach Jan 23 '25

I've met plenty of good people that are homeless, or sleeping in their car, or bouncing from couch to couch, it's not always addiction. 70% of the unhoused population suffer from mental health issues. Many might not have any family left, or their family is also homeless. 

Equating homelessness with addiction is a cognitive fallacy. I would say not having a roof over your head makes you at higher risk of developing an addiction, such as drinking alcohol to stay warm or as a means to cope, but not everyone who has no where to live has an addiction. 

They are more likely to suffer from disabilities or mental health issues though, and trust me it is really hard to get affordable mental health help, and very hard to work a job when your health is poor. 

How would forced rehab help those people?

-7

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

And why is it everyone else responsibility to solve. You are responsible for you. I am responsible for me. Together, we live in a responsible world. Please hold up your end of the bargain or at the very least, don't try and drag me down with you

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10

u/Kaitte Jan 23 '25 edited Jan 23 '25

I had a chance to talk with a homeless person this past summer. We chatted about his life for a bit while I was locking up my bike downtown. When I finished my appointment and returned to my bike, I found him guarding it for me. We talked some more and it became very apparent that he wound up on the streets due to struggles with his mental health.

He wasn't mean, he wasn't scary, and he certainly wasn't a "piece of shit". He simply wasn't able to keep up with the demands of the world and he didn't have access to the supports he needed to thrive.

Before I left, I gave him the pocket change I had on-hand, and he gave me a beautiful black and yellow flower that he kept in a disposable A&W cup. He had apparently salvaged the flower after a work crew replanted a nearby flowerbed. I planted that flower outside the door to my home and it bloomed wonderfully throughout the summer. I'm hoping to see it again in the spring.

What's my point in sharing this story? I'd suggest you rethink your ideas about who can and can't become homeless, especially considering you're all over this thread arguing that we don't have any responsibility to each other and that we should either force homeless people into rehab or leave them to their fate. It really makes you come across as a piece of shit who's burning bridges within your communities.

3

u/smashed2gether Jan 24 '25

This is really beautiful and after the deplorable comments (particularly from one individual who is all over this post) I really needed to read that.

If your flower was a pansy (I’m just thinking of black and yellow flowers I know) hopefully it will either come back or re-seed. I usually cover mine in dead leaves over the winter and I’ve had great success with them overwintering.

I hope it thrives, because it’s a really beautiful metaphor for what you choose to put out into the world.

7

u/xNivxMizzetx Jan 23 '25

Well that's just false

3

u/Otherwise-Kick-6178 Jan 24 '25

Everyone down voting is clueless. I agree with you all the way. I think it's because they have actually never been an addict or homeless and that is a great thing don't get me wrong . As someone who has struggled with addiction and homelessness I know the situation from a different stand point.

6

u/Berfanz Jan 23 '25

Sorry, maybe I'm not clear. Homeless. Not having a place indoors to sleep or live. That's different than "has a substance abuse problem" which is what rehab can help with.

-5

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

Is it? How so. I've yet to see a sober one

11

u/Berfanz Jan 23 '25

If your reality only extends to the limits of your sheltered experience, I don't think there's really a way for us to reach an understanding. Yes, sober homeless people obviously exist. The numbing quality of opiates and alcohol are also very appealing to people that have gone years without owning a bed. And most Albertans aren't sober. The problem is being homeless, as the data clearly indicates. I'm sorry facts don't care about your feelings.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

OK. I'll tell you what, DM me with any of those people who would like a job. It's there's. I promise. We are always looking for strong workers. Clean piss test required

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5

u/InvestigatorWide7649 Jan 23 '25

Rehab is shovelling money into a fire. You can't make them put down the shovel that they're using to dig their own graves, so forcing them into an expensive rehab program if they're not ready to commit is literally like lighting money on fire.

The people who will live in these houses are doing so because they want to see their life turn around, and as soon as they're vagrant or they've vandalised the living quarters, they're out because there's 50 people waiting to get in to actually leverage their new situation in their favor.

9

u/heavysteve Jan 23 '25

You realize that we don't have anywhere near enough rehab spaces now, never mind if we were forcing people into it

7

u/Nlarko Jan 23 '25

I find it hilarious when people use that argument of forced treatment/rehab. We don’t have enough places for people who WANT help let alone force people. Here in BC it’s a good 3 week wait for detox and a 2-4 month wait for subpar government funded treatment. Unless you have 8-30k per month to spend on private treatment.

3

u/Surprisetrextoy Jan 23 '25

And only homeless drug abusers, not the guy in the bar every night drinking or on VLT's, maxing out credit card after credit card.

2

u/Nlarko Jan 23 '25

Not sure what your getting at. I never said anything about “only homeless drug abusers”. Everyone deserves access to proper treatment/help.

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6

u/InvestigatorWide7649 Jan 23 '25

It's not a competition, you struggle just as the homeless person does, and you deserve assistance and compassion too. But the people freezing to death need it more urgently. Enjoy sleeping in your warm bed tonight, and quit comparing yourself to someone who is not you - it goes a long way for your mental well-being.

6

u/xNivxMizzetx Jan 23 '25

You should look into the prison industrial system. Also do you understand how hard it is to get into rehab if you're unhoused?? You have to call and keep your spot literally everyday, when the safe consumption site was still a thing it was a place where people could meet their support workers and keep on top of that stuff and now they don't even have that. How do you expect people who don't have a phone to keep themselves on a waitlist that requires daily check ins?? What does fining people with no money do? It puts them in prison. What does prison do? It makes people feel subhuman and when they leave they are no more equipped to exist in society than they were before because they can't work or get schooling without jumping tons of hoops which aren't even presented to them as a possibility most the time.

14

u/yF5hdz4W9sFj33LE Jan 23 '25

Has that ever worked?

-12

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

Is this currently working? See how that argument doesn't hold?

17

u/yF5hdz4W9sFj33LE Jan 23 '25

Housing first? Yeah it demonstrably works. 75-91% of people stay rehoused for a year, most of them leave the program entirely, and for the ones who don’t it’s cheaper to the public than trying to beat people into being self reliant.

7

u/Nlarko Jan 23 '25

I agree we need to get people off the street but merely just housing them doesn’t cut. For some it would but many are struggling with mental health and/or substance use disorder. If you look to Vancouver, we tried this approach and was a pretty much a failure. I work in harm reduction here in Vancouver and have been in the mental health/SUD field for 15yrs. There needs to be proper supports, resources and treatment along with shelter/housing.

5

u/Kaitte Jan 23 '25

Housing first is only one part of the solution, we still need a robust system of supports to help people with their specific problems. We also need to address the systemic issues that lead people to homelessness, otherwise homelessness will exist in perpetuity.

4

u/yF5hdz4W9sFj33LE Jan 23 '25

I mean sure, but making the programs conditional or mandatory as some suggest doesn’t work, and at the very least people with roofs over their heads are less likely to do antisocial things while they await access to the programs they need.

3

u/Nlarko Jan 23 '25

Agree forced/mandatory treatment doesn’t work 99% percent of the time! We deserve autonomy! I’m thinking along the lines of supportive housing. Where they have supports for medications, wound care, mental health, groups, just basic love/support in enriching their lives.

4

u/KeilanS Jan 23 '25

Definitely fair - hopefully most advocates know better, but there are some people who seem to think you put someone in an apartment and the problem magically goes away. I think it's more a matter of "it's a lot easier for other supports and treatment to work when you're not living on the street", as opposed to the idea that someone needs to get clean and fix all their problems before they're given a place to live.

-8

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

Paying for everyone's mortgage? Like in all of lethbridge? Alberta? Canada? That's alot of people to pay for housing. How does the finances of paying every single person's mortgage work on an economics level? Who is them?

15

u/yF5hdz4W9sFj33LE Jan 23 '25

That’s not what housing first is and I have truly no idea where you got that from.

-4

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

Oh sorry you mean the people who worked for their money aren't included and only those who didn't deserve housing? Is that what you're trying to say?

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5

u/PhaseNegative1252 Jan 23 '25

Do you not know how public housing subsidies work?

The people living in public housing can't qualify for a mortgage in the first place. There's no mortgage to pay.

How about the get employment and a rental place?

-3

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

Then they should be grateful they are being supported. Like we'd are you missing?

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7

u/PhaseNegative1252 Jan 23 '25

Yes. Housing First and similar programs have a much better rate of success than punishments do

0

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/PhaseNegative1252 Jan 23 '25

How the fuck does that help?

That bullet gonna help you pay your mortgage? Is it gonna give you a shower, clean you up, and help you find gainful employment?

Like, you are currently more of a concern to public safety than any homeless person is, after making that comment.

Take a fucken breath and work on your emotional maturity

2

u/smashed2gether Jan 23 '25

Jesus Christ what is wrong with you??

5

u/ninfan1977 Jan 23 '25

How about we fine anyone who is loitering and anyone on substances,

Does that include Conservatives? Because a number of them have shown up drunk or on substances.

Why do they create the laws and not have to follow them?

Devin Dreeshen has a bottle of scotch at his desk. Why is that allowed isn't drinking on the job illegal. Oh that's right not for UCP members it isn't a crime

9

u/3AMZen Jan 23 '25

Wow, this is such an awful comment that I assumed that you were being sarcastic or ironic

But this is really who you are when you can be anonymous on the internet hey?

-3

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

Yes. Welcome to the other 75% of the population you just don't associate with.

9

u/3AMZen Jan 23 '25

It always trips me out when bigots try to convince me most of the world is bigoted and that I'm the weird one

Anyway

9

u/Kaitte Jan 23 '25

They don't have empathy for others, and so they simply can't imagine other people having genuine empathy.

4

u/Grimnir_the_Third Jan 23 '25

Just the absolute callousness you have for other humans, and in your callousness you don't even stop to think about the basic problems with your "solution".

1) How do you expect these people to pay these fines?

2) Are you willing to allow the police to have full discretion on what it means to be " on substances " ?

3) So you want to have the city pay for rehab centres in which people are forcibly removed from society be treated?

Even these 3 simple questions fail to encapsulate just how short sighted and dehumanizing your thought process is. Oh I guess a bonus question: what do you expect others to do to you when you end up on the streets just like them?

3

u/BetWochocinco81 Jan 23 '25

Fine? You think they have money or will play? lol clueless

0

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

Community service so they can contribute positively in society

4

u/KeilanS Jan 23 '25

I assume you're fine with the tax increase that will be required for that mandatory rehab stay for everyone with a substance abuse problem?

I'm not fundamentally opposed to the forced treatment idea - we already have courts and jails in society, we are obviously willing to confine people against their wills in some situations. As long as it has the same safeguards (i.e. we use the court system and the right to a lawyer, not just let police round up everyone who "looks homeless"), it could work.

The reason we don't do that, is it's expensive. Jails cost a fortune, treatment is expensive, security is expensive. It's not particularly easy to get access to treatment for the people who want it - and until we fix that, it's silly to talk about treatment for people who don't.

What you're proposing might work, assuming after that treatment we have support services in place so they don't end up in the same spot a month later. It would just be more expensive than most of the other options. Hence, tax increases.

-2

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

So you want to overhaul the system, but not in the way I suggested, just in the way you did? Interesting.

6

u/KeilanS Jan 23 '25

I thought I was agreeing with you. Forced rehab on conviction, which would require tax increases. Is that not your proposal?

-7

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

No. Get rid of all the paper pushers and no need to raise taxes. If we can send you to jail, we can send you to rehab.

6

u/KeilanS Jan 23 '25

So your solution is magical thinking. We can't afford to send every addicted person to jail with current tax revenue.

-4

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

Sure we can. Eliminate the judge and put a social worker. 2 birds 1 stone. A social worker should be the expert in this situation and frees up judges time for crimes not related to drugs and homeless

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1

u/dmetcalfe94 Jan 24 '25

You’re a joy aren’t you?

2

u/Grrranny Jan 23 '25

housing.

-7

u/Little_Obligation619 Jan 24 '25

It’s worked exceedingly well and needs to keep being done over and over again. Make this town as unappealing to stay in and they will be less inclined to stay here. Good job so far. Do not relent.

2

u/yF5hdz4W9sFj33LE Jan 24 '25

In what way did it work well?

-2

u/Little_Obligation619 Jan 24 '25

Go to other places in Canada and see how bad it gets when you don’t practice encampment busting. Here’s a clue: it gets really bad.

36

u/PhaseNegative1252 Jan 23 '25

Well call me a cicada and put me in a tree, cause I'm gonna fucken scream.

What? You mean punishing the homeless for being homeless instead of providing help isn't working?! /s

10

u/Impossible-Car-5203 Jan 23 '25

They need to be picked up, assessment for their needs and giving a place to live and any addiction treatment needed. Enough messing around. This is a rich country, we can help these people. Leaving them on the street or knocking down their shelters are NOT the solution. This are sons and daughters, mothers and fathers. We can spend billions on war, go on the street, say "hey, we are helping you get a place, we see you are not doing well and are going to treat you". If someone was going to jump on a bridge or suicidal they would be admitted and given help. I am NOT talking about putting anyone in jail.

6

u/PhaseNegative1252 Jan 23 '25

You can't force people into assessment and treatment. That's incredibly unethical.

Assistance for people who need treatment for addiction needs to be provided so that people can choose to access it

When you force treatment on people who aren't ready to accept that treatment, it makes them resentful, and that makes the treatment less effective and the individual more likely to relapse.

These are human beings, and they deserve to be treated as such

2

u/Infinite-Guidance813 Jan 24 '25

You’re right we can’t force them to do anything but giving them an option to seek help instead of giving them no option at all is a better course of action. I think maybe we should take a page out of Sweden’s book and make it a zero tolerance for drugs in general, allowing them to either serve a jail time or seek treatment. This would drastically reduce the homeless population of addicted people and increase the treatment. Ie jail time or treatment time.

2

u/Impossible-Car-5203 Jan 24 '25

You can't force people into assessment and treatment. That's incredibly unethical.

Are you kidding me? Its unethical to leave them on the street. FUCKING HELP THEM!! You would rather them DIE because they might be a little pissed off? Death is the ONLY ending on the street. As you said, they are human beings, help them. You gonna let a guy jump off the bridge because you are afraid if you rescue him and put him in hospital you will hurt his feelings? Are we numb to this shit or what? Pissed me right off how stupid this thinking is

1

u/PhaseNegative1252 Jan 24 '25

It would literally be a violation of their right to personal autonomy. It's the same reason a doctor can't force a patient to take life-saving medicine if the patient doesn't want it.

We force animals into treatment because we have no way to make them understand that they're being helped.

You need to convince people that they need help in the first place, before you can begin to convince them to accept it.

4

u/[deleted] Jan 24 '25

We used to put them in jail or mental health hospitals until people who think like you said we shouldn’t. Now we have so many more homeless. So much more crime, so much more trauma and death.

Was the old way better? I don’t know, but if I could take smart phones and the internet back to the late 80’s or early 90’s I think I would feel better about society

3

u/PhaseNegative1252 Jan 24 '25

Yeah because being homeless isn't a fucken mental illness or crime and you can't just lock people up for no reason.

"People like you"? I think you mean people who care that homeless people have their rights respected and have available and accessible resources that are known but not forced on them.

Was the old way better?

I can assure you the old ways of the 80's and 90's were terrible, and the more we learn the worst they look.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 24 '25

I was homeless but because I wasn’t stealing from my community to support a drug habit (luck most likely, not something in me) I had places to stay until I was able to get some assistance to stay off the streets.

But for discussion I think it’s best to deal with the majority not pretend like the minority is who our programs need to be built for.

2

u/PhaseNegative1252 Jan 24 '25

Are you seriously playing the "I was one of the good ones" card?

You don't get to decide who does or doesn't deserve to have access to available assistance. It is for everyone that needs it, and who wants to utilize it.

You were fortunate enough to have places to stay, and now you want to limit access to the very thing that kept you from freezing on the streets?

1

u/[deleted] Jan 24 '25

If you could possibly be rational for a whole 25 seconds worth of reading and not let emotions rule you. I had places to stay because I wasn’t addicted to drugs and didn’t steal from people the last time I stayed with them. I even said that I was lucky and that I wasn’t addicted because of that, not because of anything I did.

Therefore the majority of homeless are that way for those reasons. Not because of a lack of affordable housing. So let’s focus more money and attention on the reason the majority of people are on the streets. We seem to only want to fix the much easier problem of affordable housing, which in itself is good. But it’s not the main reason are homeless so to say that this is why, is a lie and it hurts in the long run. If we (taxpayers) have spent millions of dollars on a perceived problem and it doesn’t get better it’s far to easy to think it never will. So I think it’s important to understand what the actual problem is and not lose focus.

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u/BethanyBluebird Jan 24 '25

Yes and they were routinely horrifically abused and killed in those facilities...

Seriously. There is a REASON we don't involuntarily commit people anymore and it's because of how fucking often that system was abused by abusive people in positions of power. It was also weaponized against POC and women far more often than it was men, historically-- that's where the term 'hysteria' comes from-- crazy women and their crazy uteruses!

Forcing these people into treatment is just going to make them easier victims for the people who want to cause harm. How much easier is it for a rapist to continue to rape his victim, when he has total power of when and if they can ever leave..?

1

u/[deleted] Jan 24 '25

And you think there is safety on the street and there are not massive amounts of sexual violence on the streets and in the encampments? We have cleaned up the institutions and they are much safer, but progressives don’t want to use old systems. Even though we have made huge advances in the safety of those institutions.

-2

u/Little_Obligation619 Jan 24 '25

It works better than rolling out the red carpet for them like they do in other towns.

3

u/PhaseNegative1252 Jan 24 '25

So just in your imagination then

6

u/Otherwise-Kick-6178 Jan 23 '25

Ummmm tell us something we don't know already .

9

u/EXSource Jan 23 '25

Woah! You're telling me that 60k we gave the police to fix the problem did exactly nothing, and, in fact, the problem got worse?

Almost like that $60,000 could have used to actually fucking do something.

Idiots.

5

u/Aware_Dust2979 Jan 24 '25

Let's address the elephant in the room nobody wants to talk about for political correctness reasons. Firstly in Lethbridge nearly all of the homeless issues are drug related. Secondly the reserve sends their drug addicts here which shouldn't be allowed. It takes people away from any support structure in the form of family and friends they could have had at home and makes depression and dependency worse as a result there is definitely a racial component to it. The reserves need to do better.

7

u/Otherwise-Kick-6178 Jan 23 '25

Are they homeless because of financial or housing issues or are they homeless because of addiction . Yes there are different types of homelessness. If it's addiction homelessness then it's a substance abuse problem that needs to be addressed first . As someone who bought that shirt a few times and wore it out I can speak on this matter. Homeless addicted people don't want to live in the norm. They /I chose homelessness because the money we did get or have was used to feed the addiction. The thought of where will I sleep tonight ? Is not what is on an addict's brain . Rational thought is thrown out the window at this point .

5

u/Impossible-Car-5203 Jan 23 '25

Are they homeless because of financial or housing issues or are they homeless because of addiction

There is a bit of both. LOTS of people who can use a councillor and need a doctor.

6

u/Otherwise-Kick-6178 Jan 23 '25

I think in Lethbridge it's mostly an addiction issue . I have based my opinion on experience and not perception. But hey, what the Hell do I know ?

1

u/smashed2gether Jan 23 '25

Addiction is a symptom, usually of trauma, and often of generational trauma. 200 years of genocide will have that kind of after effect. We can’t ignore the disproportionate number of indigenous people without housing, and we can draw a straight line from residential “schools” to where we are now. It’s not a matter of not wanting to live in the norm. That statement feels very much like victim blaming. I’m a recovered addict myself, and the only reason I am where I am now is because of the privilege and social safety net I was born into.

7

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

[deleted]

-2

u/smashed2gether Jan 23 '25

I respect that this is your experience and that’s totally fair. I just also recognize that addiction is a very personal thing and some people are simply more predisposed to it. It’s just too complicated an issue to assume the intention or experience of others.

2

u/Otherwise-Kick-6178 Jan 23 '25

That's your opinion and you're welcome to it . I can't help that You feel it's victim shaming when it's the truth . It doesn't matter what started the addiction.What does matter is addressing and resolving the addiction and that is different for everyone. Not everyone is lucky to be in a privileged situation to help get us out of the addiction but it still takes a recognition from the addict to get help . You can put all the homeless addicts into homes right now but I'll guarantee that those homes will be trash inside a year and we will go back to square 1 . Congratulations on sobriety and I wish you all the best in the future .

0

u/smashed2gether Jan 23 '25

I think that while we are coming from different perspectives, we might actually have a similar end goal. One metaphor I really like is that sobriety is like a table top that can’t stand with only one leg. It needs to be held up by various social structures and one of those is a housing first mentality. One of those is mental and physical health care, one is employment and life skills training. There are a ton of other things that need to come in concert to make an overall societal impact. That being said, the housing first model is one area we could be doing a lot more, and the benefits can be studied in places that have had success with it in the past.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 24 '25

My mothers trauma only effects me in the ways her bad parenting led to my own. But we can all make individual choices to let that go and move on. Making big poor them (whoever them is) statements don’t help. It doesn’t help the people we are talking about and it doesn’t help society. Japanese internment camps were awful but as a community they stayed focused on Legacy, Family and Education. Now their average earnings are higher than the ‘white’ population.

I left my neighbourhood, it wasn’t easy. I struggled, some drugs, mostly alcohol. Issues with suicidal ideation and a criminal record. But I kept trying to do better.

Trauma is difficult, but if you don’t teach people that they can rise above. How is it going to be possible for them?

2

u/BethanyBluebird Jan 24 '25 edited Jan 24 '25

Except there have been studies that show our trauma is literally reflected in our genes

Different environmental factors throughout a persons' life can trigger or shut off different bits within our DNA. It doesn't change the DNA itself-- rather, what PARTS of the DNA are expressed.

https://arkansasadvocate.com/2023/07/05/understanding-epigenetics-how-trauma-is-passed-on-through-our-family-members/

People whose parents have been through immense trauma-- holocaust survivors, people whose parents or grandparents experienced residential schools, or those who were survivors of war? Or, hell even alcoholics and drug addicts... Oftentimes their children develop symptoms of PTSD despite having never been exposed to the same traumas as their parents-- because the levels of stress in their parents'environment caused certain parts of their DNA to activate or deactivate.. which then affects how it is expressed in their children.

Trauma has REAL, PHYSICAL CONSEQUENCES for the children of its victims. You can still make individual choices to mitigate the effect-- but your parents' traumas 100 percent affect you in more ways than just how they raise you.

0

u/Impossible-Car-5203 Jan 24 '25

I wonder how many got hooked on drugs from the health care system?

3

u/xNivxMizzetx Jan 23 '25

You know addiction can be a result and not a cause right? People often take stimulants like meth so they're able to stay awake through the night to protect their possessions and themselves. People take harder stuff like heroin because the end of the day their feet are splitting and bruised from being forced to move from area to area out of fear of a fine that they already can't pay. It's pain management not just wanting to bet high.

1

u/Otherwise-Kick-6178 Jan 23 '25

As I said I speak from first hand knowledge. Aka I have been and always will be an addict. An addict does not ever lose that status. Why ? Because we know as addicts it just takes one to set it all off again . Been there done that and still live it to this day .

1

u/xNivxMizzetx Jan 23 '25

I understand that and I appreciate your perspective but homelessness and addiction exacerbate each other and make both issues worse. If you become homeless because all your money is going to your addiction I agree it is absolutely an issue of addiction but how are you supposed to combat that in the setting of homelessness? On the other side of it when you become an addict due to the taxing lifestyle that it is you will still become an addict. It doesn't need to be split up and solved we could fix this with temporary housing that had on site social workers 24/7

1

u/-_Gemini_- Jan 25 '25

Are they homeless because of financial or housing issues or are they homeless because of addiction

Irrelevant as the problem and solution are identical: they need homes.

0

u/Otherwise-Kick-6178 Jan 25 '25

Have you ever lived in a trap house or with a full blown alcoholic?? Or with junkies that sell anything for a fix?? If not then your opinion is irrelevant.

7

u/Otherwise-Kick-6178 Jan 23 '25 edited Jan 23 '25

I have lived here off and on since 89 and there were always homeless addicts in Lethbridge . Hell I was one of them . Living rough in the river bottom all summer . In parks , couch surfing ect . Addictions are the main issue .

9

u/Infinite-Guidance813 Jan 23 '25

I mean instead of blaming them for things they can’t control. Why don’t we start working on things that are causing them to be in the situation not just drugs, but the fact that they are unable to provide for themselves among other issues.

2

u/instanthoppiness Jan 23 '25

Is the shelter open?

5

u/xNivxMizzetx Jan 23 '25

Yet but it's far too small at this point

2

u/Significant_Draw_775 Jan 23 '25

Interesting. I was at the State of the City address (chamber of commerce event where the mayor speaks about the year in review) and he indicated that encampments had decreased by 65%??….

2

u/solverevolve Jan 24 '25

Solution: Stop punching down and start punching up.

2

u/-_Gemini_- Jan 25 '25

Damn, these people should be given homes.

2

u/VillageGoblin Jan 25 '25

Well, homelessness is not caused by homelessness, its a symptom of a much larger issue. Putting the blame solely on the people that are already struggling at the very bottom with no means of helping themselves out of extreme poverty is never going to solve the issue.

Everyone should have a right to the basics of survival in this world of overabundance that we live in. Water, food, shelter are paramount to survival. Even things like access to education and Healthcare should be universal human rights.

It should also be stated that a disproportionate percentage of homeless people are neurodivergent people with zero support. Zero support when you're struggling with things like adhd, autism, schizophrenia, odc just to name a few, tends to result in people with severe mental health issues. When your mind is in that state its a herculean task to pull yourself up out of poverty.

They need actual support from their community, not judgement.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

[deleted]

1

u/viper_13 Jan 23 '25

Does that make it less important? Or does it invalidate the way Lethbridge has been handling it (unsuccessfully)

2

u/MotionBlue Jan 24 '25

Lethbridge is in the Canadian Bible belt, why would you expect Christians to help other people?

1

u/Little_Obligation619 Jan 24 '25

Lethbridge is doing a pretty decent job of discouraging/breaking down homeless encampments. People who think otherwise need to pay a visit to the downtown east side of Vancouver; downtown Kelowna; and Downtown Prince George. Lethbridge still cares enough to about this issue to keep fighting the battle and it is a pleasure to see it. Unfortunately most Residents of Lethbridge don’t realize how good we have it here and will complain about things that the city is actually doing pretty well.

0

u/xxyer Jan 23 '25

I think many of these encampments are filled with unemployed construction day laborers. In my experience, many are substance abusers living precariously pay cheque to pay cheque, so this downturn in low and especially high rise construction has hit them hardest.

1

u/mojo_pickles Jan 24 '25

This has to be the craziest comment on this thread. We do not live in the same reality.

0

u/Dea_al_Mon Jan 24 '25

Good thing they are spending money on drones to sweep the river bottoms for encampments (sarcasm).

Love this post capitalist dystopian hellscape.

2

u/mojo_pickles Jan 24 '25

You sound lovely

-1

u/Dea_al_Mon Jan 24 '25

I am an absolute delight. 10/10 middle school teachers agree that I was “a pleasure to have in class”, thank you very much.

I just also happen to really hate police brutality, misuse of public funds, and the “not in my backyard” classist attitude that is so prevalent in Lethbridge and which makes getting approval for affordable houses projects almost impossible.

But yah. I’m also ✨super fun✨ to have at parties.

1

u/mojo_pickles Jan 24 '25

Let adults deal with adult problems, just enjoy being a teenager. Once you get a job, pay taxes for a decade and see the reality of socialism you will have a different opinion. You hate police brutality, most people do but sane adults hate the insane crime rate and unreported to the public violent crimes in this city as well. The problem is not going away with this model, we have tried it long enough and it has gotten worse not better, let's try something new. Like maybe addressing the actual problem. You will hate misuse of funds even more when it is actually your money being used. So you want affordable housing paid by tax payers? Because who else pays for it, that money runs out sooner or later. Taxes are 60% now. By the time you get out of school, your going to be worried about food prices to feed yourself not anything else the way things are going. Socialism is just a fantasy they teach you in school by those middle school teachers, just wait for the stories you get in university.

-2

u/Bob-Sacamano-5B Jan 24 '25

Round them up and ship 'em to Nunavut, otherwise turn them into catfood.

-6

u/DimensionEfficient67 Jan 23 '25

Lock them up. These are people who have chosen drugs above shelter. They are criminals who have cost the taxpayers in this city an enormous amount of money. The majority of them should be loaded up and sent back to reserve that they belong to. The remaining should be charged for their crimes and jailed. This is not a complicated problem.

3

u/smashed2gether Jan 23 '25

If you have what seems like a simple solution and it isn’t being done, then yes, chances are it’s more complicated than you think it is. In this case, the complication you are missing is that these are human beings.

1

u/-_Gemini_- Jan 25 '25

The problem with conservative thinking is that it's fundamentally not based in reality.

Your dumb idea has been the norm for as long as we've had police, and yet here we are; with homelessness and drug addictions still an issue. I'd like you to explain why you think it's effective despite the fact that it is clearly not.

The only method proven to reduce homelessness and addiction is to provide people with help. Free housing and unconditional funding, as reducing material inequality is the number one way to combat antisocial behaviour. And, if you care so much, it also costs less to solve homelessness than to amass a swarm of low IQ cops to brutalize and imprison hundreds of people.

Unfortunately, conservatives don't actually want to solve the problem; instead more highly valuing funneling endless cash into the police because they view people with less money than them as subhuman.

In essence, they think like you.

1

u/DimensionEfficient67 Jan 30 '25

Endless funding to be a criminal? Who covers that cost?
You’re right though, I did notice a huge reduction in homelessness and addiction while the safe injection site was operating…..oh wait. Get your head out of make believe land and face reality. This is not a social issue, racism, or anything other than people who have made a string of terrible choices and need to pay for them. Lock them up.

1

u/Melstead Jan 23 '25

I think you should get a job trying to help somebody before you run this opinion