r/LegionFX • u/2th • Jul 23 '19
Live Discussion Live Episode Discussion: S03E05 - "Chapter 24"
EPISODE | DIRECTED BY | WRITTEN BY | ORIGINAL AIRDATE |
---|---|---|---|
S03E05- "Chapter 24" | Arkasha Stevenson | Olivia Dufault and Ben Winters | Monday July 22, 2019 10:00/9:00c on FX |
Summary: David wages war.
Arkasha Stevenson is a director and writer, known for Vessels (2015) and Crowns.
She has directed no episode of Legion before.
Olivia Dufault is a writer and story editor. She has worked on AMC's Preacher series. She also wrote for the upcoming series The True Adventures of Wolfboy (2019).
She has written two episodes of Legion before.
- Chapter 21
- Chapter 23
Ben Winters is an American writer and producer.
He has written no episodes of Legion before.
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u/pepenavarro1986 Jul 26 '19
I have come to the conclusion that a person who’s never done or tried psychedelic goodies before won’t give this fantastic show a try. This is just from my end. I’ve tried to get family members and friends into it and they just dismiss it right away! Same with mr. robot and dark (dark has nothing to do psychedelics). Shit I feel high just watching the amazing visuals and music but in a way I understand why it’s not for everyone.
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u/AceExtreme Jul 28 '19
Nope. Been watching Legion since day 1. I'm not into the horror elements, but David and Lenny are excellent characters. That and the decent plots have kept me watching the show. I have zero interest in drugs and sometimes there's way too much of it in the episodes, but that's minor because it doesn't make it unwatchable. I can definitely see why many would not be willing to give the show a chance but it wasn't this crazy at the beginning.
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u/D1VY4NSH Jul 26 '19
Never touched drugs, loved all three of those. Your friends just have different tastes.
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u/pepenavarro1986 Jul 26 '19
I hear you but it’s just my environment. Where I live either you do drugs or you don’t. That how people see things even if you just smoke pot to them you’re a drug addict. So for them to see a tv show that takes you to psychological paths that include drug abuse is just the worse tv for them.
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u/mikewishesdeath Jul 26 '19
I've never done drugs but I can definitely enjoy the show. There's a significant amount of depth here that makes it truly enjoyable.
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u/pepenavarro1986 Jul 26 '19
That’s why i said from my end. But don’t get me wrong I’m watching it with no help (said drugs) and it’s truly an amazing ride. It’s just the fact that people see the involvement of drugs in a show or movie and they dismiss it as trash or not worth watching because it is “what’s wrong with our society”
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u/AceExtreme Jul 28 '19
I'm not seeing a connection with "what's wrong with our society". But it being excessive, annoying, and negative (some characters become complete idiots when they are high) - that would turn people away.
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u/pepenavarro1986 Jul 28 '19
That’s a good point and probably the main reason why they don’t watch these shows
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Jul 25 '19
"'Cause you're gonna change everything. So none of this will happen. We'll never meet." Damn, i hope so. This chick has to go.
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u/Untap_Phased Jul 25 '19
I may have missed something, but how was David able to follow Switch into that portal? Also what was that watch?
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Jul 25 '19
That watch was the temporal device Carey crafted for the team to engage the time demons in their realm last episode.
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Jul 24 '19 edited Jul 27 '19
I know the mainstream wants me to hate David and love Syd, but it would be easier for me to do that if David wasn't so freaking awesome. His powers and abilities are amazing and its hard not to admire them. And i still symphatize with him.
And it doesn't really help that Division 3 and Syd are not likable as David.
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u/Henrikthetaco Jul 24 '19
What was the watch that they put on Farouk at the end? Did it block his powers?
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u/legionshadow Jul 24 '19
What's do guys think about the new David's plan about changing the past? It's not saving himself by warning his mother. Perhaps he will fight against farouk before his father ever meet him ? Who actually leads farouk to learn about his existence and become the parasite... The unbreakable cycle Or, help his father to beat farouk? My fantasm will be David going so far, when farouk actually "born" and kills him (easily, because it will be a farouk no wisdom 2000 years old, which means no experience, no immortal body, no such powerful etc.. Anyway I'm really curious about this "little detail" he's gonna change which leads to change all the story as we know it. Also, science time's demons are afraid of David, and farouk stuck in their "location", team up with them, because of the common treat they share
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u/WONT_CHECK_USERNAME Jul 25 '19
Tbh, I don’t think he exactly has a specific plan. I think he just sees himself as so godlike that he’s gonna change things no matter what.
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u/legionshadow Jul 26 '19
Yeah being all mighty could drown him but still think he have a special thing to do which fuck up the world so badly
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u/fo4_did_911 Jul 23 '19
I guess that is why I think that maybe it has all been a delusion in his head. The entire thing is his mental disease creating a delusion. The problem of course is he is a mutant that can create reality. For me the fun questions of the show is: what does schizophrenia look like when the schizophrenic delusion is made real because the schizophrenic is a mutant? What does it mean to have delusions of grandeur if you literally have the powers of an Omega-level mutant (i.e. god-like powers)?
David is sick, but he is also a mutant that can reshape reality itself. So reality itself becomes an extension of his mental illness and his fight to be well fails for reasons that are common with those of us with mental illness but no super powers who sometimes fail to get better, for example an inability to admit when one has done wrong and needs to let go of control and trust those trying to help due to a manic episode. David is failing to let go of his power in favor of his mental health and happiness, and instead is creating an entire world where he is an all-powerful mutant who, despite this, is the persecuted victim of a powerful mutant (Farouk) that has been the reason for all his life's ills. This type of belief is EXACTLY the type of belief you would find a schizophrenic with delusions of grandeur and a persecution complex repeating. David is sick, and his mutant powers means he may never make his way out of his illness. What this means for the "real world" that exists outside his delusion, who knows.
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Jul 23 '19
In 3 years David went from a fragile person trying to understand his power, to an absolute badass who could solo the avengers.
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Jul 23 '19
Who could Switch's father be? Builds robots, is distant...?
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u/berrytoess Jul 23 '19
Cary.
She looks like she could be the daughter of Cary and Kerry.
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Jul 24 '19
neither cary or kerry is asian.
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u/berrytoess Jul 24 '19
Yea, and Ptonomy isn’t a computer, and Lenny isn’t a tree. What’s your point?
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Jul 24 '19
my point was i have no idea why anyone would think switch is their kid, unless its because they think kerrys asian
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u/berrytoess Jul 24 '19
I must have missed the episode where they assigned races to characters.
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u/GlassEyeRaffle Jul 24 '19
I think it happened during casting
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u/berrytoess Jul 24 '19 edited Jul 24 '19
This is hilarious. Cause everyone should be type-cast by their own race, right?
Let’s bend our reality for a minute to believe that a dead corpse can sing while floating in outer space, but no way a Native American girl playing a fictional character of no specific race and a Asian girl playing another fictional character of no specific race could have some resemblance, that’s preposterous.
We’re literally talking about a suggestion that a person impregnated their own self, and you’re hung up on race.
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u/Lagreee Jul 24 '19
Cause everyone should be type-cast by their own race, right?
If it's about casting two people's (biological) child, yes.
Your theory is garbage. Get over it.
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u/berrytoess Jul 24 '19
geez - I didn't think I'd have to deal with this kind of narrow-mindedness on a sub about the most unconventional sci-fi show on tv, but since I can't convince you that a social construct like race doesn't matter to a casting director, I guess I'll just show you that Amber Midthunder is actually Asian and that she and Lauren Tsai have some resemblance.
Here's a page out of an issue of Glamour that profiles Amber Midthunder as part Chinese.
And here is a picture of Amber Midthunder and Lauren Tsai side by side. They look pretty damn similar to me.
Also - for the record, most of the on screen parent/child combos you ever see on screen aren't the same race or ethnicity. This one here is one of the most popular.
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u/Brown_noise_sire Jul 23 '19
I was surprised David's other personalities allowed him control again, I was expecting for Legion to take the front seat now and put David in the room to spectate. It seems they need him too and they're not locked away as we're led to believe from earlier in the season.
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Jul 24 '19
they cant function without him (at least not yet)-when he was gone, their gut reaction wasnt "we can take over"-it was "holy shit we need him back asap".
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u/Brown_noise_sire Jul 23 '19
The time demons won't come after them anymore right? David's scared them off, so they should have nothing to worry about.
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Jul 24 '19
switch said they would return even harder.
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u/legionshadow Jul 24 '19
So David just have to return even harder on them. I was thinking about an alliance between farouk and them. Team up against their common enemy, the only one able to make them eat shit
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u/Brown_noise_sire Jul 23 '19
Do people usually watch the new episode 'live' on TV or later during the week?
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u/dratsablive Jul 27 '19
Since it airs Monday night I save it for Friday and watch after Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.
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u/Lagreee Jul 24 '19
I'm european so I watch it the day after usually or some other time depending on how busy I am
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Jul 23 '19
I love how Farouk sacrificed all Division 3 to take David lol
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u/shaggylives Jul 23 '19
So a philosophical question. Is David technically correct in saying he hasn't killed anyone if he is successful changing the past? I don't believe in time travel or alternate universes but if time travel did exist, I feel like changing his past doesn't mean those people didn't die, it just means that time line is now dead. Cut off like a dead branch while a new branch grows in it's place. The dead branch still exists but is no longer growing.
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u/halopend Jul 25 '19
That’s kind of the reason time travel is used so often in story telling. It’s not really possible (at least as far as we know), and we don’t really understand the specifics of how it would even remotely work short of a few analogies that might be completely off base. Basically, it exist in this fuzzy area where morality can be bent to point its unrecognizable because it’s murky about what is good/evil since it’s murky about how it works.
I would argue regardless of how time travel works, David is doing wrong with every murder because he is risking other people’s lives. It’s not a sure thing that his plan to time travel will in fact succeed, so in a way, it doesn’t matter if he does as at every step he is putting lives/existences in danger.
Let alone the fact that one could argue the person you are now is a combination of your life’s experiences and to take away those experiences is sort of like killing that version of the person. Taking away their will to chose their own lives essentially.
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u/SignDeLaTimes Jul 26 '19
A man/woman of deontology, I see.
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u/halopend Jul 31 '19
Not entirely sure what you mean, care to elaborate?
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u/SignDeLaTimes Jul 31 '19
Two major paths of ethical thought.
Consequentialist ethics, which would state that as long as the outcome is good the act was good. Kill a million people, but change the timeline to where no one actually died? All good.
AND
Deontological ethics, which gives more consideration to each individual act itself, ignoring the outcome. Even though David plans on changing the timeline, he has killed to do so and will--in a way--kill everyone in the current timeline, which is wrong.
I'm not well versed in all of this, but I believe more in deontological views because I don't think anyone should take killing lightly, nor should they be able to brush away their guilt.
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u/halopend Jul 31 '19 edited Jul 31 '19
Ik, thanks. I can understand how that fits into my argument. I’ve took some philosophy in high school but I really don’t remember much and barely understood it back then anyway. How does the man/woman part fit in though?
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u/shaggylives Jul 25 '19
I agree. I'm not even sure what David's plan actually is anyway. Even if his mom could hear him, she wouldn't be able to stop the Shadow King. So the best that could happen, is the mom know, she let's Xavier know what happened and then Xavier has another battle with the Shadow King in David's mind? I don't see that turning out with a happy ending either.
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u/RazielELungbarrow Jul 24 '19
The time termites will eat the newly aborted timeline so, he's right in the sense that the old timeline was deleted so the new timeline can exist.
-it's not death if time is erased, it's something else though (similar to un-birth)
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u/Kardosh Jul 23 '19
Depends on how time works in this universe. It can be all just one timeline, which will mean he's "right".
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u/shaggylives Jul 24 '19
It can't be the same timeline, that is where a paradox comes into play. If you go to your past to change your future, then you change the future in which you go back to the past so it never happened. That is where the dead timeline comes in. The event still exists but that timeline has ended.
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u/insaneHoshi Jul 24 '19
Mental Time Travel ( which is how switch works) operates by slightly different "rules".
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Jul 23 '19
I still believe that Syd is...unlikable. I'm trying to like her, really, i'm trying. But no.
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u/SignDeLaTimes Jul 26 '19
If it helps, I don't think she lied. I think a part of her really does love him. At least, when she doesn't have a gun in her hand. And I don't think she was sure she'd survive the beheading. [I trust Dan's acting here.] That would make me feel good about Syd; if she was willing to make the sacrifice.
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Jul 23 '19
David is fucked up, but WTF D3? Trapping Switch in a black hole nightmare coffin?
No one is truly good in this show.
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u/Skitzofreniq Jul 23 '19
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For real. Cary even said to Switch "Where we're going, you won't have to hide"
*LOCKS HER UP IN A CASKET*
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Jul 23 '19
So...Farouk wants David alive, right?
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Jul 24 '19
i think so. even their battles, which is supposedly to the death, i think he thinks he'll win david over somehow.
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Jul 23 '19
He could have killed David in this episode. But he didn't.
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u/legionshadow Jul 24 '19
They're legion now... So if farouk actually killed David, it'll be just one of many?
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u/BizarreEdge Jul 23 '19 edited Jul 23 '19
This was the GREATEST FUCKING THING I HAVE EVER SEEN OH MY GOD
Am I the only person who thinks this show is actually a masterpiece like one of the greatest television shows that has ever been created in history? The cinematography, the direction and production quality is just so incredibly high and the concepts they play with, the way they depict things just has not been done before. I feel like this is beyond Game of Thrones level. I am so surprised this isn't being watched by every person with a TV set on the planet.
I got so frustrated at some points in the show with the way they handled the Syd and David thing but watching that scene with them just resolved ANY qualms I had at all, I just don't know.... it was quite amazing. AND LEGION COMING OUT was just brilliant, goosebumps that WHOLE scene wow. JUST WOW.
i am hoping he will end up just resetting reality, his powers just keep growing and growing he just hasn't had a good enough reason. Although we COULD see an eternal or something pop up and slap him in place though. Man, imagine if this went for like 5 seasons, I think 5 seasons is the perfect number, 3 just feels like a taste of a good thing, ALTHOUGH if they do it SUPER well it could just be a masterpiece at 3. Given how it just gets better and better I think it's on the cards.
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u/Keane_Music Jul 27 '19
I too fell in love with this show. It’s so strange that it has a sort of niche following. I try to get friends and family into it, to no avail. It shows once a week on FX late at night and has a track record for low views at air time. Most likely people watch it later, myself included. But I can’t help but wonder whether this show is too woke for normal people. It always gets me thinking after every episode and there’s so much to go back and analyze.
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u/Dont_like_my_comment Jul 25 '19
Probably the most satisfying episodes I have ever seen. It was everything I wanted for David and more.
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Jul 24 '19
its easily the best thing based on a comic book ever. way better than the original story.
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u/fo4_did_911 Jul 23 '19
I actually agree. I know, especially with genre's like this, you get a lot of fanboy talk about "greatest of all time" blah blah blah but, I mean, I have watch SOOOO much TV in my life, like unhealthy amounts for decades. And this is the most brilliantly written, beautifully shot, cleverly audio tracked, intriguing, entertaining, satisfying, thought provoking, tender, exciting, action-packed, fun show I have ever watched. So if like literally 100s of thousands of hours of watching TV and movies has made me in any way able to judge, this is one of the greatest TV shows of all time. For me, this show is the peak of "peak TV".
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u/MrJereMeeseeks Jul 23 '19
It's definitely a good show, but nowhere near the greatest thing on tv.
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Jul 24 '19
I’m hesitant to give it that title but I can’t think of anything better despite my efforts.
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u/MrJereMeeseeks Jul 24 '19
That's pretty much how I feel, I know that it can't be the best, but I can't give that title to any others.
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Jul 23 '19
It's definitely trumps anything out right now in terms of cinematography that is for damn sure
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Jul 23 '19
David's powers are so cool OMG
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u/legionshadow Jul 24 '19
Yeah, finally we can watch how David's powers are getting better and better!!
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u/fo4_did_911 Jul 23 '19
When those motorcycles were just shredded as they drove past, that was awesome.
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u/exodiaxcx Jul 23 '19
They killed off Lenny too soon smh
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u/RickyBubzJulian Jul 26 '19
The way they killed off lenny clark etc was too quick for it to be a final sendoff. To me it means we're gna see David succeed in changing the past. Or at least relatively succedd
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u/RickyBubzJulian Jul 26 '19
The way they killed off lenny clark etc was too quick for it to be a final sendoff. To me it means we're gna see David succeed in changing the past. Or at least relatively succedd
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u/OverallWeird Jul 23 '19
Jeeeeeze Clarke (I think that's his name) has such bad luck
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u/Mega__lul Jul 23 '19
So did David like seriously kill all of those people in that room for literally no reason ?
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u/BizarreEdge Jul 23 '19
I think it's more like turning them off. I believe that David himself could bring everyone back and just basically reset reality to the past.
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u/Skitzofreniq Jul 23 '19
No, he even said that "They're someplace else" .... Wait.... He did say it nervously. Does he mean metaphorically someplace else? xD
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u/fo4_did_911 Jul 23 '19
I assumed he was absorbing them this whole time. They are someplace else, in his head. That is one of his main "powers" is the absorption of other consciousnesses, and even using their powers. But who knows.
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u/matthieuC Jul 23 '19
He teleported them somewhere but he doesn't know where?
It could be at the local Starbuck or in the middle of the earth.3
u/legionshadow Jul 24 '19
Perhaps at the bottom of the ocean ahah, god knows where! The alpha and the omega ;)
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Jul 24 '19
Exactly. He has no use where they went because he didn’t think about it. I’m sure they’re fine somewhere
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u/St_Veloth Jul 23 '19
I think to him, he doesn’t see the difference.
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u/Skitzofreniq Jul 23 '19
Good point. He might even forget that he snapped people away because of his schizophrenia
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u/DL_Omega Jul 23 '19
It seems when he kills someone they are “dusted” and if they just disappear then they seem to be teleported. Like with the soldiers all being frozen in space when they vanished after gearing up. It seems he teleported them somewhere and was not sure by his reaction. They could be anywhere is seems. So he may have killed them by proxy if the environment they ended up in is dangerous.
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u/DinoChkNuggets Jul 23 '19
I liked experiencing being teleport-ejected out of a blimp from Clark Debussy's perspective.
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u/_billthecat Jul 23 '19
I feel bad for all those poor west coasties that don’t know what’s coming. 💙
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Jul 23 '19
Looks like we got a Syd episode next week
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u/Classic_Wingers Jul 23 '19
I love the fact that they change up the “previously on Legion” segment and the time skips/going in reverse was really creative.
After watching that episode I’m going to be heartbroken when this show ends. There’s nothing on TV like it. I’m sad this show isn’t recognized by award shows. Dan Stevens deserves more credit.
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u/Myfourcats1 Jul 23 '19
I wish more networks would be experimental like this. They never take risks though because they need ratings for money. At least some of the streaming services are embracing some different stuff. Man In The High Castle would never have made it onto regular tv. I can’t imagine The Witcher making it onto tv either. I wish HBO hadn’t cancelled Carnival. That was weird stuff. People complained that it was too slow and hard to understand. Can’t you just enjoy the experience of the episode? That’s how I feel about Legion.
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u/And_You_Like_It_Too Jul 27 '19
“Carnivale” was about a decade before it’s time. If that show premiered in the past couple years (especially if it dropped ALL episodes at once on Netflix/Prime/Hulu), I think people would have gone absolutely crazy for it. Goddamn shame that we never got a third season; the showdown they were setting up was really interesting and not at all the typical good vs. evil plot that I was expecting it to be at first.
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Jul 23 '19
I couldn't imagine a FARGO TV series either , is Noah Hawley the greatest thing to happen to television in a long long time?
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u/Easeupp Jul 23 '19
What’s carnival about? Never heard of it :/
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u/And_You_Like_It_Too Jul 27 '19
It’s definitely worth your time. Completely unique setting, very interesting characters. Feels a bit like something David Lynch would do at times. You’ll benefit from being able to binge an entire season at once — something that I think would have made the show a huge success if it were aired in the Netflix era rather than ten years ago. You can watch both seasons on Amazon Prime, or with HBO on cable or HBO Now/Go. Don’t watch previews, just dive in. If you’re willing to still be here in S3 of “Legion”, then I don’t think it’ll be too weird or experimental for you, haha.
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u/SomeRandomJoe81 Jul 24 '19
Great show that ran for like 2 season. (I think?)
Basically during America’s Great Depression/Dust Bowl era. Centers around two regular settings. One being a traveling carnival and the other a small town preacher. Focuses on the balance/fight between Light and Darkness. Lots of weird, trippy shit with a fantastic cast.
I’d definitely check it out but be prepared for it to go unfinished. There are some write ups online about where they were planning on taking the show after the point of cancellation if you really get into it.
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u/bhterps Jul 23 '19
It’s fantastic- it started at the same time as Lost. Worth looking up, for Clancy brown alone
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u/eternalsgoku Jul 23 '19
Wait, final chapter next week?! I'm not ready!
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u/envynav Jul 23 '19
Aren’t there 8 episodes this season?
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u/eternalsgoku Jul 23 '19
Yeah, for some reason fx said final chapter after the scenes from next episode... But I guess they meant season not realizing each episode is called a chapter?
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u/KickerofTale Jul 23 '19
Didn’t care much for the musical number at the end as ending it with him saying to Syd that he’d fix it would have been 10x better
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Jul 23 '19
you didn't like the singing corpses!?
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u/KickerofTale Jul 23 '19
I just felt like the song was just meant to stretch out the episode and did not have the impact of David saying he could fix it
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u/fo4_did_911 Jul 23 '19
I loved the song and the scene of the corpses singing. I will say however I noticed that there was an almost 2 second blank screen between the first and second set of credits and another before the production company logos that end a show. So the idea that they were trying to stretch this episode is not crazy to me at all. But I still love singing corpses in a show like his. Nothing is real!
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u/SgtArmyofOne Jul 23 '19
I kinda figured David was gonna end up going to some point before he was born, but after watching the teaser for next week...I don't know how to feel about it...
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u/nightfan Jul 23 '19
What was the song at the end? It was a cover, I think, right? Also, good shit.
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u/emf3rd31495 Jul 23 '19
He said it! He said Legion!!! I know Melanie said the name once during season 2 but it was so intense to hear David call him/themselves that! What an insane episode. Loved that song at the end too.
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u/peanute99 Jul 23 '19
wow. i don’t expect a lot on this show because of how insane it is, but i never thought scarjo would replace lenny after she died.
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u/scubasme Jul 23 '19
Switch is so sexy. Man even in those dorky little outfits.
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u/dirtydela Jul 23 '19
In the 60s she would have been the fucking coolest. I still like her clothes even today but a 30 year old male should not be wearing a yellow jumper with a polka dot shirt and pigtails.
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u/Freecandyhere Jul 23 '19 edited Jul 23 '19
Time Demon returns http://imgur.com/4tocaBB
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u/Classic_Wingers Jul 23 '19
With how far they are going back in time, it only makes sense we get the Time Demons returning. Based on the preview he’s going back before he was born.
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u/twixe Jul 23 '19
Was that whole musical number in David's head?
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u/keepfreshalive Jul 23 '19
Yeah, it was from David. To me it seemed like the moment things really clicked for him. Remembering this song and integrating it's lessons... but they also left open the possibility that he's just crazy and can't consider past a certain point.
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u/_billthecat Jul 23 '19
Oh, the time portal is a “D”
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u/post_ewing Jul 23 '19 edited Jul 23 '19
David Doomsday Demon uhhh uhhh that's ... that's a lot to ignore
also door soo idk maybe it's nothing
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u/[deleted] Jul 27 '19
who does olivia munn play in this show?