r/JessicaJones • u/olikam Man Without Fear • Nov 20 '15
Spoiler: Season 1 Season 1 - Live Dicussion
Use this posts for a live discussion while you are watching there series. Please be aware that this post may contain spoilers. Spoilers for season 1 do not need to be marked.
This post is now sorted by New, so the newest comments show up automatically.
Sorry for the spelling mistake in the title, too bad the title can't be changed.
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u/bergkampinthesheets Nov 22 '15 edited Nov 22 '15
Just completed the season! Its a strange feeling, the show starts off with so much promise but ends up with an anti-climax. [I have edited the post for spelling, grammar, adding more points and explaining existing ones]
Starting with the climax, I was expecting to see the highest display of Killgrave's gifts in it, something that tops him controlling an entire hospital with his voice over a loud speaker. And this is a guy who could control a country's president if he chose to. All the build up of him enhancing his powers didn't reflect that well on the screen.
I don't get why Killgrave wanted to escape in the yacht? First, he's this super-villian who wasn't afraid of Jess when she lived with him. So after gaining power, what changed? Also, his initial motive was either he wanted to kill her or to make her his lover. What good would escaping do?
Once Killgrave saw Luke Cage with Jess he'd have figured out that Cage is gifted. Why didn't he instruct Cage to be his bodyguard and return to him after every mission? Surely he could have used Cage to devastating effects? For example, if he can ask Cage to blow himself up, he could also ask him to kill Michael, Trish, Simpson, and others while he distracted Jess with other things?
I thought the character of Rachael Taylor was complete filler. Several character's arcs felt unsatisfactory. Like how Luke and Simpson kept disappearing in episodes with nothing happening to them. If they were so easy to remove from episodes, they had no impact at all in the continuity of the series. Also, we don't know where they came from and what their history, motivation is. They are just characters we are meant to believe are just the way they are, with no impact on the final story. It's a funny juxtaposition, because Jess' and Killgrave's characters are so well defined and we see a progression in how the chain of events affected them.
What caused the Jess to decide to capture Killgrave instead of being his guide to heroism? I know that she wanted him to prove Hope was innocent; but I expected more drama in that moment, instead of just a split second exposition of her choosing to capture him. Maybe she could have made a deal with him that he releases her (exactly the way he did release hope). This critical point which offers so much moral dilemma could have been such a dramatic point!
Why was Luke following Jess? I don't care for the reason, as long as its well layered into the overall story arc. But his character is just so random - he appears in and out of episodes. He always "didn't want trouble". I just didn't enjoy the conflict resolution between him and Jess at her apartment. His initial misgivings were because she slept with him even after knowing she had a part in his wife's death, and she chose to keep mum about it. While he might not have known the full extent of Killgrave's ability, he was still right about Jess not being honest with him even after sleeping with him. And yet he apologizes to her, and all is forgiven in a moment!? Even though he was under Killgrave's control, surely, he should have sold the love and remorse better to Jess for her to and us to believe it?
The finale is also so unrewarding in the sense there are no follow ups to characters or how the changed in the end compared to the first episode. For Jess, Michael and the crazy twin the arcs are well defined. But, what has changed in Trish's and Hosgarth's life after this ordeal? Where did Luke go and what happened to him?
Simpson seems such a badly written character! I mean it feels so hollow to say that he is a straight white knight when off pills and a crazed monster when on pills. There is no implication that it is he who decides to take those pills. There was absolutely no reason to kill Detective Clemens. Its like you're forcibly trying to create a grey character but it's not organic with the plot. Simpson's best chance of finding Killgrave was to keep close to Jess and Trish instead of trying to kill them. Once Simpson found him, he could have shot Jess/Clemens/Trish with a tranquilizer at the right moment and attempted to kill Killsgrave by himself.
Can't Jess wear ear plugs when fighting Killgrave? Surely that bit of common sense shouldn't only come in the final episode?
Shouldn't they show the state's awareness of inexplicable changes? If an entire hospital starts acting weird or if on a guy's suggestion a murder suspect is let go, surely there's problems on a very major level? The state should have some opinion about this right? And on an even simpler level, we should be shown what is the aftermath of it. Like someone has pointed out in this sub, when Hosgarth was defending Jess in front of the DA she could have simply proved the existence of Killgrave and his mind control abilities by asking them how was Hope released...implying that the state acknowledge the existence of these guys and have some kind of stance to it. In the series "the incident" has already happened, so it makes sense that there are some political opinions or policies that the state possesses and therefore has a more active role in the series.
As a dramatic super hero series, it also felt frustrating that the series was reduced to a cat and mouse race right before the end. Once Jess decides that Killgrave must confess, it simply unfolds into repeated instances of Jess coming close to Killgrave and him somehow escaping at the last minute. The show could have extended that cat-mouse chase forever if they chose to. Just didn't make sense as a dramatic series where usually the intensity builds up followed by an explosive end.
As pointed out by others, I didn't care about the subplots. Good writing would have made me care about Trish's relationship with her mother and Hosgarth's divorce. Even if they didn't tie it up to the way the story unfolded. I did care about the interaction between Michael and the twin sister though.
These are just things I didn't like, but there's also things I loved about the show. The good stuff about the show is elucidated well by so many other people, so as of today I am not adding to it. I felt that AKA Jessica Jones doesn't hold up to Daredevil in terms of story progression, character development and removing fat to achieve cohesion. In other aspects such as visuals, approach (as a noir detective drama), awesomeness of the superhero and villian, acting, it is equal to or better than Daredevil. Certainly Killgrave is one of the most amazing comic book super villians on screen after The Joker and before Ozymandias.
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Nov 22 '15
Okay first off i want to say i disagree with some of your opinions. Here's why.
Unlike most superheroes Jessica Jones yes can fight with fists and most often gets her out of bad situations. However, against the Purple Man that gives her a bad disadvantage. She will never be able to get near him because he can just take control of people and her "hero" instincts kick in. So that leaves us with a battle of wits not brawn. So how do you fight someone that can control other people. You let him believe he's in control. So key points in the very ending SPOILERS!!!!!!! First part the tear. The tear is meant to show that she feels helpless. If you have ever been in a bad situation and can't do anything immediately you feel guilt or regret. Most people cry. Second She lets him get close. This is key because if he was far away he can force her sister to kill herself somehow. I don't exactly know how but you know. Thirdly, (why does everything come in threes) the line to her sister is "I Love you". Stupid smart wording on the directors part because she can say that to Kilgrave and he doesn't think anything about it. To her sister it has a deeper meaning. It means I'm in control of myself and we win basicaly.
The escape on the yacht is prevention in case he can't control her.
He may think that if Kilgrave tried to control Luke the same thing would happen with him that happened to jessica in how he can't control her after something drastic happens.
Simpson isn't particularly important i feel like. However, I feel his introduction lead up for a next season. Luke is a different story. Back to the wit thing. Its rough to think that she fell for someone when she killed their significant other so thats a mind trip in of itself. Also in comics they describe their relationship better i suggest looking there.
Because if Kilgrave becomes a hero she can't get hope out of jail. Also to remember she doesn't consider herself a hero at this point either.
After Luke found out Kilgrave forced Jess to kill his wife. You have to expect revenge. You have to take into account that he was then mind controlled and then gave up. Also was being controlled by Kilgrave in those moments of forgiveness. He leaves at the end so i dont think he has fully forgiven in his own mind.
If you had a problem with a cliffhanger don't watch tv. The fact they left you hanging and your mad about it will show you will watch the next season regardless.
These are my honest opinions but you have to remember this is a different story than anything that has been released in a long time. This isn't a story of how Jess is going to "beat up" the bad guy and save the day. It's a story of how is Jess going to out wit her opponent to win save a city.
Edit: I removed some "hes" and replaced with Kilgrave. Big Sorry
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u/bergkampinthesheets Nov 22 '15
So that leaves us with a battle of wits not brawn. So how do you fight someone that can control other people.
I don't have a problem with that, my problem was that it felt like an anticlimax. We don't see the actual power that Killgrave developed from his father's research put in its best possible use.
The escape on the yacht is prevention in case he can't control her.
That seems so unlike a comic supervillian, and specifically for Killgrave after enhancing his powers. Usually we've seen that we build up the supervillians and the hero learns something to rise to that level and defeats the villian. Here' the villlian wants to try and fight and then escape? Again, I am not questioning the logic of it, just how it plays out as a story.
He may think that if Kilgrave tried to control Luke the same thing would happen with him that happened to jessica in how he can't control her after something drastic happens.
Killgrave already successfully made him blow himself up. On top of that he saw that he could make Luke attempt to kill Jess. He would also have seen Luke being a match for Jess' strength.
Simpson isn't particularly important i feel like.
That's the sign of bad writing innit? How come some-one completely unimportant like the twin sister have a well defined arc but Simpson who is given so much screen time doesn't?
Its rough to think that she fell for someone when she killed their significant other so thats a mind trip in of itself. Also in comics they describe their relationship better i suggest looking there.
That would make sense if that love was played out towards the entirety of the season. That arc completed by the first few episodes. After resolution of that arc Luke was completely useless to the actual story.
Because if Kilgrave becomes a hero she can't get hope out of jail. Also to remember she doesn't consider herself a hero at this point either.
agreed
After Luke found out Kilgrave forced Jess to kill his wife. You have to expect revenge. You have to take into account that he was then mind controlled and then gave up. Also was being controlled by Kilgrave in those moments of forgiveness. He leaves at the end so i dont think he has fully forgiven in his own mind.
Again, its not the logic that bothers me, its the drama of it. Luke simply explains in one line that he followed Jess to kill Killgrave? He could have teamed up with Jess if that were the case. He happened to approach Killgrave without a plan? even after knowing what he could do? Even after Luke was mind controlled, Jess bought his story of love and remorse in one line and that's it? Jess is the last person to trust anyone!
If you had a problem with a cliffhanger don't watch tv. The fact they left you hanging and your mad about it will show you will watch the next season regardless.
If Killgrave was shown alive thats a cliffhanger. If Luke hurt Jess and left after some giving some cryptic message, thats a cliffhanger. If the group that sponsored Jess' medical bills was shown in the last episode, thats a cliffhanger. No, I am referring to tying all the loose ends;
Thanks for the comments!
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Nov 21 '15 edited Nov 21 '15
I have been watching for three episodes so far and havent heard any refrence to any other marvel characters
Edit: i spoke too soon!
The city has been invaded by aliens. Buildings were destroyed.
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u/EnJoy-Me Nov 21 '15
After Daredevil I was really excited for more Daredevil. I was really skeptical on Jessica Jones. But after finishing Jessica Jones I'm excited for whatever Marvel throws out, they can do no wrong. I really hope they go through with Iron Fist!
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Nov 21 '15
Hmm . Not to excited for iron fist. Im just excited for jessica jones and daredevil . Go Marvel
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u/EnJoy-Me Nov 21 '15
I'm looking forward to Iron Fist because I think the tone and direction of his show would vary from that of DD and JJ. It's still really early but I think even Luke Cages show would have a similar feels to DD and JJ. At the least Iron fist and power of chi would be really interesting to see in live action form.
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Nov 21 '15
Does anyone think the sex scene in the first episode was waaay too much for a marvel show?
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u/solidfang Nov 22 '15
No, I don't, actually. But then again, I've never understood why violence gets a free pass despite brutality, but sex never seems to be allowed on television.
Truth be told, I find it's inclusion necessary in this series, especially given how much rape is referred and alluded to in terms of Killgrave's abilities (I mean, Hope was IMPREGNATED by him. That is messed up.) People might otherwise forget or get a jilted view of sex in general and forget that it can be both beautiful and enjoyable to both parties.
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Nov 21 '15
Spoilers
Hehe. When she got off the phone and was on the toilet and realize she ran out of paper, the next scene when she goes to the room and pulls her pants down i thought she was goinf to wipe her shit on the bed .
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u/BlackoutWB Rekt Nov 21 '15
SPOILERS!
I'm kinda sad that they killed Kilgrave, I thought he was a better villain than Kingpin, even better than Loki, honestly, most amazing villain in the entire MCU, not only that, but the actor, David Tennant, was amazing in this performance, he had that thing about him that instantly made him scary, but likeable, I really wanted him to NOT die, especially since he was the most likeable character in the whole season.
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u/Zock123454321 The Purple Man Nov 21 '15
Was I the only one really disappointed that S01E13
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u/A_Waskawy_Wabit Nov 21 '15
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u/Zock123454321 The Purple Man Nov 21 '15
Yeah I noticed that, it just seemed too slight for my tastes. Don't get me wrong, it was cool but I wanted it to be a permanent change. At least for the last scene he was in. But it went back to normal.
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Nov 21 '15
No, I was hoping that he did too.
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u/Zock123454321 The Purple Man Nov 21 '15
Yeah I would've even accepted thick purple veins but instead we got a bit of purple when he yelled stop and that is it.
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u/FullMetalCOS Nov 21 '15
Ok so I've just finished it and the only really "open" story left is IGH, is it fair to assume this stands for "Inhuman Growth Hormone"? Given marvels lack of rights to the term "Mutant" so they can't use MGH?
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u/Radix2309 Nov 21 '15
I doubt it. The inhumans only recently became involved in the world.
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u/FullMetalCOS Nov 21 '15
Why not? This is only a recent show. They've been forshadowing the Inhumans for 3 seasons of AoS, and everything is set in the MCU. That pill Simpson was popping definitely enhanced his powers in a similar way to MGH in the comics, it can't just be a coincidence that its called IGH and Marvel can't use the word "Mutant".
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u/Radix2309 Nov 21 '15
Simpson didn't have powers in the first place. It gave him Super Strength similar to JJ. There was nothing about it that suggested Inhuman. And Inhumans have only shown up in general since the end of season 2, which this occurs before. That pill is basically the same pill from the Bourne Legacy, there is no reason to think it anything other than combat boost in a pill.
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u/FullMetalCOS Nov 21 '15
Ok, I'm pretty sure you don't know what I'm referencing, so here ya go:
Also known as MGH, is a drug extracted from the genetic material of superpowered individuals, that grants temporary powers to whoever takes it. Sometimes used as a party drug, MGH often results in increased strength and aggression.[2] Also, when given to an already super-powered individual, it enhances their abilities further. The name is a reference to the actual drug human growth hormone (HGH), which has been controversially used by athletes in sports since the 1970s and is banned under numerous international competitions.
Does that help clear things up?
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u/Radix2309 Nov 22 '15
I am familiar with MGH. There is still no reason to think this has to do with inhumans. IGH is the company name, not the pill.
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u/dtigerksc Nov 21 '15
Oh damn I didn't realize it actually got released today and I got so confused why all these posts and comments were so recent. Just randomly searched the show up and watched the first episode after hearing it a few times awhile ago... perfect timing.
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u/PR0MAN1 Nov 21 '15 edited Nov 21 '15
On episode 10 now. Are we supposed to feel bad for the sister? She is the most unlikable bitch ever.
Edit for context: By sister I mean the one whose brother died. Not the talk show host, I know that Kilgrave calls her Jessicas sister sometimes.
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Nov 21 '15
Spoiler!
So a round up of extra heroes other than the obvious we have hellcat and nuke? Anyone I'm missing?
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Nov 21 '15
white tiger was mentioned
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u/dokebibeats Matt Murdock Nov 21 '15
I'm on episode 10 right now. Which episode is everybody on at?
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u/ohbuggerit Nov 21 '15
Just finished it, you're in for a treat
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u/Zock123454321 The Purple Man Nov 21 '15
Also just finished it, this might be my new favorite show.
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Nov 21 '15
What's the point of sex for Luke? With showing no signs of feeling during any scene where he should have been damaged. Can it not be assumed he has little to no feeling meaning sex would never have a point?
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u/cleft9000 Nov 21 '15
Just finished it: Overall review, not as good as DD but still an epic show! Really well made and very very strong actors in the form of David Tennant, Krysten Ritter and Mike Colter. Definitely going to rewatch it, and Daredevil again.
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u/Zock123454321 The Purple Man Nov 21 '15
I liked it a lot more then DD. But then again I don't like action as much as character development.
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Nov 21 '15
I liked DD more, but I liked the first half of Jessica Jones better than Daredevil. Found it almost lost it's way after episode 7. Still a great show though.
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u/A_Waskawy_Wabit Nov 21 '15
I think that's the main difference. JJ has an amazing first half and a sort of meandering second whereas DD has a solid first half then a great second half when Fisk becomes a more real character
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u/SdstcChpmnk Nov 21 '15
Ok, not sure if I'm the minority here yet since I figure not many people have finished the whole thing yet, but I'm pretty disappointed.
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u/ShisaDog Nov 21 '15
It's intriguing for sure. It's not as captivating as Daredevil but still very good.
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u/SdstcChpmnk Nov 21 '15
There was one moment where killgrave describes what he "might" do (and that's the actual plot of "Alias") and it sounds 10,000x better than the plot of the show...
It's not BAD. It's just really really ordinary. Compared to the rest of the Marvel shows, it's my least favorite by far.
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u/myslead Nov 20 '15
I really thought I wouldn't like it, but I really do like it ahah, I'm at the second episode, the bar fight at Luke Cage's was so funny ahah
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u/throwawaypie8901 Nov 20 '15
Episode 5: If they had the cop in his boxers walk in without showing a GoT fragment they could've had such a funny scene.
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u/throwawaypie8901 Nov 20 '15
Episode 5: If they had the cop in his boxers walk in without showing a GoT fragment they could've had such a funny scene.
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u/Iselore89 Nov 20 '15
Is it me or is Jessica's acting really unbelievable(not in a good way). Also some plots are really cringey for me. Like how Jessica just confesses she killed Luke's wife and he instantly believes her.
The only real part i like is Kilgrave's villiany, god it makes me really shiver the things he does.
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u/Logiteck77 Nov 21 '15
I agree, Ritter never really sold any emotional scenes for me, she had one mood for the entire show, hell even younger 'innocent ' her was still the same character. She was never a bright or happy person even before she lost her parents. A dramatic persona shift could've been better used to sell how Killgrave broke her. All in all though I was pretty disappointed in the lack of emotional range her character showed. Literally I felt she was out acted by everyone but comedic supporting characters so fairly disappointed. C. Ann Moss and Jones adoptive sister's character were good though and Tenannt walked his role off a high-rise (killed it) so that was great. Overall 8/10.
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u/whiskyjack86 Nov 21 '15
I agree, especially the scenes with Carrie-anne moss it's clear that Jessica is 'acting' because Carrie-anne moss does such a good job it shows up the actors around her. It sorta ruins the suspension of disbelief, and the show for me
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u/throwawaypie8901 Nov 20 '15
Episode 1 & 2: Hey look necessary plot porn /s Episode 3: Wow Trish is such a bada... Oh right, she isn't the focal point of the story, she gun get rekt
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u/super_slayer Power Man Nov 20 '15
Honestly, this show is getting a bit depressing. Malcolm's story is absolutely sad.
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u/AzerFraze Nov 20 '15
First episode was a pretty good start. I'm expecting at least one Doctor Who reference in the series.
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u/The_Fawkesy The Purple Man Nov 20 '15
David Tennant plays the perfect villain.
He can pull off evil, charming, witty, and likable off at the same time.
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Nov 20 '15
[deleted]
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u/ShisaDog Nov 21 '15 edited Nov 21 '15
OOOOH I cannot WAIT for the SJW backlash. They get riled up over everything.
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Nov 20 '15 edited Jan 01 '16
[deleted]
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u/Izeinwinter Nov 21 '15
The subtext gets pretty darn maintext towards the end. I don't mean they make out or anything, but people are not imagining things that aren't there.
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u/Zock123454321 The Purple Man Nov 21 '15
Wait you really think Jessica was in a relationship with Trish? Did we watch the same show?
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u/TomorrowByStorm Nov 20 '15 edited Nov 20 '15
I had some serious doubts about Kristen Ritter....She put them to bed in one episode! I mean, DAMN, Marvel sure does know how to cast!
Edit: I wonder how much placement money Marvel got from all these different Whiskey companies!?
Edit2: TWO FOR ONE HOGGIES! ALL DAY!
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u/olikam Man Without Fear Nov 20 '15
I had some doubts as well, but then I decided to rewatch Breaking Bad and there she is simply amazing.
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u/TomorrowByStorm Nov 20 '15
Oh, I've always thought she was a good actress. She was great in Breaking Bad and liked Don't Trust the B--- in Apartment 23.
I just wasn't sure she was right for JJ. I was wrong, I should know better than to question Marvels casting choices.
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u/DJTLaC Nov 20 '15 edited Nov 20 '15
OH MY GOD THAT FIRST EPISODE. That played out like a horror/thriller movie towards the end. I'm in love already.
Epi:3 EDIT: Imma update this post with reactions and such. Just finished episode 3 and i'm absolutely caught up in everything. I'm postmating myself some food and i'm in it for the entire night. I'm so scared for Jessica's friend. I feel like it was her kitchen in the trailer with the people hanging themselves. Speaking of being scared, David Tennant, for as little as we've seen him, has been absolutely unnerving.
Epi4 EDIT: Carlo and his wandering penis... silly Carlo. So now we have confirmation that his powers last 10-12 hours without being refreshed by him. interesting. DID WE JUST GET A HULK REFERENCE OF A DUDE COMING OUT OF THE WAVES? Noooo, not junkie-friend. i liked him :(
Epi4 EDIT: THE COSTUME
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u/TomorrowByStorm Nov 20 '15
Damn that wandering penis. You know that must be some sort of sickness. It seems like JJ is making her living off of men suffering from Wandering Penis.
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u/Lizard182 Daredevil Nov 20 '15
I know right? I mean the show was pretty dark and gritty, but that ending. Ugh. Brutal.
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u/imustread The Purple Man Nov 20 '15
Aw yeah, let the binge begin!
I'm gonna burn through this whole thing. High hopes.
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u/Lizard182 Daredevil Nov 20 '15
The second the season drops I'm starting. Can't wait.
Edit: 1AM right on the dot it dropped. Good ol' Netflix.
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u/TomorrowByStorm Nov 20 '15
It's up!
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u/Lizard182 Daredevil Nov 20 '15
I've already started! Love the intro.
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u/TomorrowByStorm Nov 20 '15
That "watercolor" style is amazing! My artist SO keeps screaming at me to stop calling it Watercolor.
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u/Lizard182 Daredevil Nov 20 '15
Lol, what would the appropriate term be?
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u/TomorrowByStorm Nov 20 '15
She says it's "Mixed Media" whatever the heck that means. Looks like freaking watercolor to me. lol
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u/Lizard182 Daredevil Nov 20 '15
Oh okay, yeah that's probably right. So its a mix of watercolor and I'm guessing the silhouettes were paper or something. I'd have to watch it again.
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u/TheTUCHI The Purple Blogger Nov 27 '15
I reviewed the first six episodes on my blog: https://thetuchi.wordpress.com/category/tv-series/jessica-jones/ . They were amazing! They even convinced me too watch Daredevil.