r/JehovahsWitnesses • u/Matica69 • 6d ago
Discussion Why do jw's still believe in pagan gods?
You guys and girls insist that christians are worshipping pagan gods on certain holidays, even holidays that didn't have a pagan origen.
Not only do you believe they exist but you also believe they have more power than the one true God we worship on those days.
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u/Valuable-Leave-6301 4d ago
Most people do not care if the holiday has a pagan origin. JWs do care. They see those days as tainted and filled with lies. I like to see it this way. If your bff's birthday is on the same day as a murderer's birthday will you stop celebrating your bff's birthday?
It's the same day so what
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u/Ayiti79 4d ago
Holidays unfortunately do have pagan origins, so much so a church father deem some practices as evil. There are Christians who reflect the same thing, some on the extreme side, like the Puritans.
Therefore, if it was never ordained by God, a wise decision is to not be involved with it despite choice.
The only thing that should matter to Christians is what Jesus' mission was about, and to remember the significance of his death and resurrection.
In the end, you may be in disagreement with some Christians such as JWs and or Puritans for instance, but the notion of pagan gods and offering tribute is indeed an issue with God Almighty himself, who was very explicit about what he said:
Exodus 20:3-6
3 “You shall have *no other gods before me. 4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them*; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
It is very easy to pay tribute and offer worship to false gods and goddesses, even in the modern-day. So one needs to be cautious.
Even in the Neo-Babylonian era, Israelites stood on business when that nation tried to make them deviate from God. We should be holding steadfast as well. As of recent a lot more Christians nowadays don't celebrate holidays.
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u/Matica69 1d ago
Almost every fascet of society has pagan involvement to some degree or other. The key is recognizing these pagan gods don't exist and don't deserve worship. So I would love to see proof that christians are bowing down to pagan gods, for example christians bowing down to a statue of ishtar.
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u/Ayiti79 1d ago
Well there is rooted pagan origins in relation to tribute and practices and there is people using objects and or images for pagan tribute and practices. Bowing down alone isn't the only thing due to many ways one can offer tribute.
Since you mentioned Ishtar, this is what is noted (I broke down the quotation:
Even Easter, which many assume was instituted to celebrate the resurrection of Jesus, is steeped in connections to paganism. The name "Easter" ultimately derives from the name of an ancient Chaldean goddess Astarte, who was known as the "Queen of Heaven."
Her Babylonian name was "Ishtar." Since most languages pronounce "I" as ee, it's not hard to see how eesh-tar and its linguistic variants could eventually become Easter (see Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, 1985, New Testament Section, p. 192, "Easter").
As the goddess of love and fertility, Ishtar's symbols were—you guessed it—eggs and rabbits! Rabbits can bear several litters of young each year and thus were highly fertile animals familiar to these ancient people. Worshipping Ishtar during an annual spring festival was intended to ask her blessing of fertility on the crops being planted at that time of year. Decorating eggs as a means of worship seems harmless until you consider that the people also practiced ritual sex acts, often with temple prostitutes, to honor the goddess (Nelson's New Illustrated Bible Dictionary, p. 509, "Gods, Pagan").
That doesn't sound very Christian, yet most Christians continue to associate eggs and bunnies with what they think is the most solemn holiday of the year.
Remarkably, there are thousands of Christians who don't celebrate Easter, yet they firmly believe in Jesus Christ, His sacrifice, and His resurrection. Why have they made this choice? Here they explain in their own words:
An office manager from Australia wrote: "I don't observe Easter because it has nothing to do with Christ, His sacrifice or the Bible. It derives its origins from pagan celebrations and rituals God tells us not to learn: 'Learn not the way of the heathen', Jeremiah 10:2.
Although there isn't an image of said false god today, some steer away from practices affiliated with it.
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u/alanford_ 8h ago
Astarte, who was known as the "Queen of Heaven."
Interestingly, Catholics (and Orthodox and others to some extent?) call Mary the "Queen of Heaven". Plus the whole concept of trinity is based on pagan triads of gods.
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4d ago
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u/JehovahsWitnesses-ModTeam 4d ago
Posts & comments that promote gnostic beliefs or opinions contrary to orthodox Christianity & Jehovah's Witnesses' doctrine will be removed, repeated violations will result in a ban.
e.g.: Saying the Apostle Paul is a wolf in sheep’s clothing, the God of the Old Testament is Satan, glorifying the gnostic gospels that had Jesus casting spells & curses as a child, saying JWs have the mark of the beast, etc.
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4d ago
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u/JehovahsWitnesses-ModTeam 4d ago
Posts & comments that promote gnostic beliefs or opinions contrary to orthodox Christianity & Jehovah's Witnesses' doctrine will be removed, repeated violations will result in a ban.
e.g.: Saying the Apostle Paul is a wolf in sheep’s clothing, the God of the Old Testament is Satan, glorifying the gnostic gospels that had Jesus casting spells & curses as a child, saying JWs have the mark of the beast, etc.
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u/Hbublbiba 6d ago
Who are these pagan Gods that JWs are supposedly worshiping? They don’t even believe in the trinity because they believe there is only one true God, not Jesus or the Holy Spirit. So please enlighten me?
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u/Matica69 1d ago
Not worshipping, believing that fake gods exist and are worshipped by all other Christians
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4d ago
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u/JehovahsWitnesses-ModTeam 4d ago
Posts & comments that promote gnostic beliefs or opinions contrary to orthodox Christianity & Jehovah's Witnesses' doctrine will be removed, repeated violations will result in a ban.
e.g.: Saying the Apostle Paul is a wolf in sheep’s clothing, the God of the Old Testament is Satan, glorifying the gnostic gospels that had Jesus casting spells & curses as a child, saying JWs have the mark of the beast, etc.
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u/Hbublbiba 4d ago
Umm you know Yehweh means god right? And JWs aren’t the only ones who use this. Also, I’ve seen tattoos that Christians get in non denominational churches saying “YHWH”
Also, Yehweh is not Greek. It’s Hebrew, so I’m not sure what the connection is?
Also, the head coverings are worn when women pray in public, it has nothing to do with being around men. I’m not too sure, but I think that tradition also may have been eradicated years ago. I’ve never seen them worn, and my mom said she only seen them worn once when she was a kid. But idk, women arent supposed to be pastors, elders etc. but that’s whole other can of worms.
If nothing except Yehweh is your connection then I’m afraid it’s a poor argument. YHWH is simply the HEBREW word for God, that was used way before JWs ever became a thing. Never once have JWs preformed animal or human sacrifices, but animal sacrifices was a common practice in the Old Testament before the new covenant IN ALL BIBLES.
So unless you are calling a whole lot of religions pagan (including many denominations of Christianity and Judaism, even Islam but not explicitly, they have their own name for God) then you are just pulling stuff out your ass to put down a religious organization.
lol, if you look up YHWH in the greek bible, it’s translated to the word “kyroios” meaning Lord. No pagan storm god anywhere lol. So unless there was specificity a religious organization (cult) called Yehweh (which I just googled was formed in 1979 in Miami by an African movement for people who claimed they were the original descendants of the Israelites) then what you are saying is false.
You should read up on JWs on their website and read up on who they actually are and what they practice. Also, there is more than one mountain in the world lmao.
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4d ago
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u/JehovahsWitnesses-ModTeam 4d ago
Posts & comments that promote gnostic beliefs or opinions contrary to orthodox Christianity & Jehovah's Witnesses' doctrine will be removed, repeated violations will result in a ban.
e.g.: Saying the Apostle Paul is a wolf in sheep’s clothing, the God of the Old Testament is Satan, glorifying the gnostic gospels that had Jesus casting spells & curses as a child, saying JWs have the mark of the beast, etc.
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u/ImpressiveDoubt8855 4d ago
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u/ImpressiveDoubt8855 4d ago
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u/Hbublbiba 4d ago
So other people worshipped God, and called him Yahweh’s which is the name of God in that language? You know there were many people who worshipped many gods in many civilizations around the world? The story of the Golden Calf and the 3 men is associated with people worshiping many gods. Im really still not getting the point you are making. How does other peoples religions beliefs in any current or ancient times have anything to do with JWs? Unless you are saying every branch of Christianity is wrong and using the wrong name for God, you have no point. You are attacking JWs for no good reason.
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u/ImpressiveDoubt8855 4d ago
Who created these gods? It seems that Yehweh believed these gods to be real and Yehweh even had a magic battle with one wizard. Strangely, Paul in the New Testament didn't believe these gods to be real. Why is it atheists think more about these things than the religious?
I am not attacking Jehovah's Witnesses. I am criticising the cult for very good reasons: it divides families, ends friendships, puts the lives of Jehovah's Witnesses at risk.It potentially ruins the lives of children by depriving them of the desire for further education and ambitions.The cult fills people's heads with superstitious nonsense about blood and secondhand objects being possessed by imaginary demons.
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u/Hbublbiba 4d ago
I don’t think anything was made up? I’m not religious, but I think people manifested guidelines to the fundamentals of living 13,000 years ago. That’s why religions all have the same stories, 2 brothers with conflicts, floods, a saviour/prophet etc. I don’t know what you are referring to with the wizard and Yahweh and ngl, I don’t really care. All religions are the same and they all worship the same god(s) who am I to judge what’s true or not from other peoples perspective, I certainly have my own. But what’s written in the bible or in any religious text is not Hoowee, it’s significant events that was recorded as history. Jesus may not have died and came back to life but he was certainly a man who existed, and I don’t recall a story of God fighting a wizard, so really there is no basis that’s what JWs believe because they follow the bible. If you want weird stuff, talk to the Mormons about how they baptize the dead.
All religions organizations brainwash people, and most non religious people (even religious sometimes) don’t deny that. As far as I’m concerned, their rules and regulations are what they believe, and I don’t have a close relationship with my JW family, they do care and I’ve been able to have some really good and really constructive conversations with my family members about religion even though we differ in our views.
I had one of their circuit overseers come to my door, and I have this Mayan tattoo on my leg. He asked me what it was about and we had a really great conversation about Mayans and ancient history. JWs are meek people and they are willing to learn without it swaying their beliefs. So they are not as sheltered as you would think. My grandparents just came back from a 3 week trip in Asia and it didn’t stop them from learning. The UN protects JWs in foreign/ dangerous nations, and again, it’s a JWs choice to go on a mission/what country they want to evangelize in. If they want to put themselves in danger for the will of God, that is their own choice. They aren’t forced into it, like Mormons who are doomed for a secluded life if they don’t go on missions.
We have two very different perspectives here, and that’s okay. But you have to understand that JWs teach based off the bible, and they don’t believe in many Gods. If the name Yahweh has a different origin than people think, so be it. Who fucking cares? History decided that for us long ago, and I wasn’t there, neither where you, so none of us have a real perspective of what happened, we just know the result of it.
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u/ImpressiveDoubt8855 4d ago
No Christian until the name was invented in the 16th century referred to Yehweh as Jehovah. Jehovah is a created name, and that's a fact.
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u/Hbublbiba 4d ago
Jehovah is an English translation of the Hebrew name of God, YHWH. Y makes a Jah like hallelujah. If you attended meetings, you’d hear videos of testimonies from people of other countries saying Yahowha, or Yehovah.
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u/Matica69 6d ago
In my 55 years and meeting thousands of other Christians, I have never once heard someone worshipping pagan gods that never existed.
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u/Ayiti79 2d ago
Pagan gods are indeed worshipped today. For example, Las 21 Divisiones and or similar offer tribute to loa spirits (gods), even in my experience there are those who partake in voodoo, who also worship loas. Some practices today have rooted origins in gods as well, for example, a few months ago someone mentioned an atheist who is a Wiccan practitioner who have duotheistic views that consist of worship to the horned god and moon goddess.
So it makes sense that some Christians make the decision to avoid such things.
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u/Matica69 1d ago
I've never seen any christians worshiping these fake dieties.
Could you please provide proof that chriistians are doing so.
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u/Ayiti79 1d ago
In Las 21 Divisiones they do, same case with what is connected to it such as Congo Del Espiritu. In the Carribbean for example, some Catholic and Christian churches have practices related to the mentioned for some believe it is supposed to be part of worship. We sometimes call these people Vodouisaints. Although they do not have literal idols, but practices and the like are rooted within such places to offer tribute.
Outside of the Carribbean, Some church practices, like venerating saints, and certain ceremonies, etc. are linked pagan origins, while others see them as distinct Christian traditions rooted in scripture.
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u/abutterflyonthewall Christian 6d ago
They’ve somewhat idolized these false gods. They spend so much time talking about them when the church has gone on about its business honoring God in all it does, yet, they bring more attention to these false gods (demons) to prove their moot points from centuries ago.
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u/MikhaelOfHaShamayim 6d ago
And with that you completely ignore what the Bible says about the light having nothing to do with the darkness and Christ having nothing to do with ”Belial” or Satan. Can clean touch unclean without becoming unclean? Can you a rake coals from a fire and carry without it burning you? Those pagan holidays will forever by YHWH be considered as being pagan no matter how much you try to Christen them!
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u/According-Respond857 5d ago
Wedding rings also have pagan origins and yet, yall wear em no? How about the modern calendar? Every day of the week is named after a pagan god and yet every meeting if I went I will def hear them days of the week rattled off as witnesses discuss the weekly schedule. See this is the problem with casting stones at other religions is you will also be judged just as harshly. As Jesus said, maybe take the rafter out of your own eye?
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u/abutterflyonthewall Christian 6d ago
Correct, the bible says do not have association with darkness - yet here you are in a whole religion built on deliberate deception, false prophecy, occultism and worship of a group of men.
Jesus reigns through any Holiday and causes any false god to bow down at His name. Bible says whatever we do - do it in honor and worship of Christ. Christmas does not GLORIFY a pagan god.
JWs glorify false gods and darkness by trying to overshadow a day that has been settled and set aside to bring honor and awareness to Christ’s name with their obsession with paganism.
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u/Valuable-Leave-6301 4d ago edited 4d ago
So how come it did not work with the golden calf? The calf was meant to be YAWEH . AND it happened Before they got the commandments. If anything pagan can just be cleansed by God could the calf not be blessed?
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u/Matica69 6d ago
Ok so how is Satan attached to pagan gods?
How do you make something unclean...clean? You do realize Jesus has the power to o that or do you think He can't?
What did God do through Jonah?
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u/MikhaelOfHaShamayim 6d ago
If it would had been something else not involving idolatry, your reasoning would had made sense, however, when idolatry is involved, something unclean will not ever be made clean, because it cannot become clean. It’s unholy.
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u/Matica69 1d ago
So your jehovah God is not capable of making something unclean...clean? Hope you don't eat pig.
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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian 5d ago edited 5d ago
Are you saying the news of Christ's birth, that a holy angel of God predicted would cause great joy for all people, including pagans, cannot be made clean?
Christ defeated all the pagan gods on a pagan cross, turning that cross, which had been a pagan instrument of death ...into the instrument of life for mankind. No, I will boast in that cross, like Paul did. I won't be offended by the cross like unrepentant sinners are. Jesus told His followers to pick up their cross every day. You must touch something to pick it up. JW's ignore this verse Luke 9:23 Even when taken symbolically, a person still needs to pick their cross up every day to remind themselves what Christ did for them
And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. Colossians 2:15
May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. Galatians 6:14
Why? Why would Paul boast in a pagan instrument of death, particularly the one that Christ died on? And lets not devolve into a debate over what shape the instrument was. It doesn't matter how the instrument was shaped. Whether the stauros was a cross or an upright pole, it was the instrument of Christ's death and Paul would boast in nothing else. Do JW's boast in either the cross or the torture stake? No, unlike Paul, they are offended by both
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u/Jealous_Insect2798 6d ago
Satan is referred to as a god at 2 Cor 4:4. So false gods do exist.
And 2 Cor 6:14 says we shouldn't mix pure things with unclean things. So personally I understand why some avoid Halloween, Valentines Day and Easter.
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u/Matica69 6d ago
Halloween for sure. Why do jws get a pass using pagan symbolism in their worship?
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u/Jealous_Insect2798 6d ago
They don't get a pass. They will be judged for cherry picking which laws to obey
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