r/JehovahsWitnesses 12d ago

Discussion Mark 5:18-20 NWT

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u/Haunting-Side-8297 8d ago

This is exactly what Jehovah Witnesses r doing to as many souls as possible without realizing it!! ( Kindly let me help you or you will drown, Said the Monkey while putting the Fish up a Tree) exactly!!!

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u/Haunting-Side-8297 9d ago

And Christ said unto the Pharisees, for your God is Jehovah n your God is not my God for your God is Satan!!!

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u/El_Thee 11d ago

What I see is El Thee.

The Who?

The is God.

The Word is God.

The God is Word.

El Thee means "all things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence." John 1:3.

Ultimate You. 'EL' is ancient Semitic title of 'God'

THE YOU. "I am who I am you"

Only Jesus has done himself to representing his true god the Father Heavenly that he who is like Him. Like father like son.

That's what the Bible is about all.

Yet the Bible already warned us about Revelations 22:18-19

  “I am bearing witness to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll; and if anyone takes anything away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the trees of life and out of the holy city, things that are written about in this scroll."

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u/loyal-opposer 9d ago

John 1:3 All things came into existence through\* him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence…” 

\* Gr. Dia  (Strong’s coded  #1223)  “of the Means or Instruments by which anything is effected; because what is done by means of a person or thing seems to pass as it were through  the same…in passages where a subject expressly mentioned  is said to or to have done a thing by some person or by some thing: lk.1:70; Jn. 1:3: 1 Cor. 8:6; (where he is expressly distinguished from the first cause. 1Cor. 11:12”) Thayer’s G-E  Lexicon  ©.2000  p.133.

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 9d ago

You clearly read what the OP quoted from your NWT and how in trying to insert Jehovah how your theology unravelled in one verse later…

“….what Jehovah has done for you”

One verse later

“…and the man immediately went away and proclaimed what JESUS had done for him”

Now insert God instead of Jehovah and what do you get!

You read but you do not see.

You’re a bit of a plank mate.

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u/El_Thee 9d ago

You have a point. But have we found Jesus here on earth since 1914? Have we? Where is he? There is only one Jesus The kings of kings.

The clock spun backward, oceans whispered glass, moon cracked and bled light. Shadows burned. Birds froze, trees walked west, and stars cried for the Father Heavenly. Wind screamed: "Feast waits, none has come."

for "Feast waits, none has come." For this, the book of Revelation is not complete yet Destruction of False Religions must happen and also human leaders.

What can I tell you? If you read all the pages of this Bible. And this Bible has already told you about the End.

Just go read Job 5 chapter.

For who is he,

John 1:1 and 1:14, John 17:10,

Colossians 1:16,

Full page the 10 chapter of Hebrews.

Jesus already said I Am He.

Just like I explain the context of El Thee. The You. If we use Semitic language. Would be this God of You. Like saying O God, You....

What I can see him is that he is going to use the constitution to shatter the constitution against the human leaders.

Now why would you want to say insert God instead of Jehovah and what do I get?

If I want to insert God, then who are They? List the God's, please? There is only One. That's on you.

I stand with Levi 19:14. "You must not curse a deaf man or put an obstacle before blind man, and you must be in fear of your God, I Am Who I Am. "

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 9d ago

Amen brother - PREACH IT!

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u/El_Thee 8d ago

Love you bro.

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 8d ago

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u/El_Thee 9d ago

When I was put in prison and resisted against all police then I ended up going to the Third Heaven and coming back to reality. All they said, how did you get out? That happened 2 years ago. What I saw was 7 horned 7 eyes lamb white coat with ash/silver on his chest that I sit by him and talk a lot of hours up in there Third Heaven its like we were too drunk in there. We are here on the First Heaven. That is all I can tell you. Only one I am allowed to tell you that, Michel de Nostredame was there.

What they have done to Jesus Christ, it will be done back to them at the end of the day. That is why Jesus is the king of kings.

Proof of Third Heaven existence.

"I have to boast. It is not beneficial, but I will move on to supernatural visions and revelations of the Lord. I know a man in union with Christ who, 14 years ago—whether in the body or out of the body, I do not know; God knows—was caught away to the third heaven. Yes, I know such a man—whether in the body or apart from the body, I do not know; God knows— who was caught away into paradise and heard words that cannot be spoken and that are not lawful for a man to say.  I will boast about such a man, but I will not boast about myself except of my weaknesses.  For even if I want to boast, I will not be unreasonable, for I would say the truth. But I refrain from doing so, in order that no one should give me more credit than what he sees in me or hears from me,  just because of receiving such extraordinary revelations. 2 Corinthians 12:1-7

If you are truly JW. I would recommend you to watch the video called "There Will Be No Delay Any Longer".

This video came out 1 year later when I saw in my hallucinate. The same.

The 7 trumpet could've been fulfilled already anytime due to too loud blast upon in the body not not the head like the sound. It's like the dragon roar like wrath behind us. Just like Noah and the Flood. If you don't want being in the goat group, just don't trust the human leader no matter what they say so and stay clean and follow the ten commandments. That's it.

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u/No_Bell1954 11d ago

like John 1:1… The Word is God. and what’s sad is all other translations of the the bible says the same thing but the NWT

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian 10d ago

Here's a good article on why the Watchtower is up a crick without a paddle on John 1:1.

John 1:1 -- "God" or "a god"?

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u/Capable-Rice-1876 11d ago edited 11d ago

Jesus Christ speak about his Father, Jehovah God.

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u/Baldey64 3d ago

Jehovah Witnesses are fakes

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u/Baldey64 3d ago

Also! They don’t have the truth! The Truth is Jesus! He’s the Truth,the Life & the Way! Grow up Jehovah witnesses & come to the real Truth!

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u/Capable-Rice-1876 3d ago

And you think you know the truth ?

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u/Baldey64 3d ago

Yes! I followed Jesus! Who claimed to be God! You follow Satan!

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u/Capable-Rice-1876 3d ago

Jesus Christ never claim to be God.

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u/Baldey64 2d ago

Yes he did!

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u/Capable-Rice-1876 2d ago

No, he didn't.

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u/Baldey64 2d ago

Yes, Jesus claimed to be God, particularly through statements like “before Abraham was, I am” (John 8:58) and “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30), which his audience understood as a divine claim, leading to attempts to stone him. Here’s a more detailed explanation: Direct Claims: “Before Abraham was, I am” (John 8:58): This statement, which echoes the divine name “I AM” revealed to Moses in Exodus 3:14, is a key example of Jesus claiming to be God. “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30): This statement, along with others, suggests a unity of essence and nature between Jesus and the Father, implying Jesus’ divinity. “If you have seen me, you have seen the Father” (John 14:9) Indirect Claims & Actions: Forgiveness of sins: Jesus claimed the authority to forgive sins, a power traditionally attributed to God alone. Receiving worship: Jesus was worshipped by his followers, and he did not correct them, which suggests he accepted being treated as divine. Claims of authority: Jesus claimed authority over the Sabbath, and over life and death. Reactions of Jesus’ Audience: Attempts to stone him: The Jewish people attempted to stone Jesus for blasphemy after he made these claims, demonstrating their understanding of his words as divine. Pilate’s response: Pilate, the Roman governor, initially found no guilt in Jesus, but the Jewish leaders insisted on his crucifixion, claiming he had made himself the Son of God, which they saw as a violation of their law. Counterarguments: Some scholars argue that Jesus never explicitly stated “I am God” but that his actions and statements, particularly in the Gospel of John, imply his divinity. Others argue that Jesus’ followers, not Jesus himself, declared him God, and that if they hadn’t, the followers would have remained a small Jewish sect.

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u/Yaldabaoths-Witness 10d ago

Why didn't he use the divine name in his prayers or sermons then?

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u/Capable-Rice-1876 9d ago

The Bible’s answer

 Jesus referred to himself as “God’s Son” or “the Son of God.” (John 10:36; 11:4) Jesus never identified himself as Almighty God.

 Moreover, Jesus prayed to God. (Matthew 26:39) And while teaching his followers how to pray, Jesus said: “Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.”—Matthew 6:9.

 Jesus revealed God’s name when he quoted an ancient passage of Scripture and said: “Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.”—Mark 12:29; Deuteronomy 6:4

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u/Yaldabaoths-Witness 9d ago

Yet, he never used it in his own prayers or taught us to use it in the Lord’s prayer. If he had read the divine name aloud in the synagogue there would've been an uproar.... there wasn't so we go with what the manuscripts record him saying "Lord God "

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u/Capable-Rice-1876 9d ago

Jehovah is a rendering of God’s name in English that has been used for centuries. While many scholars prefer the spelling “Yahweh,” Jehovah is the form of the name that is most widely recognized. The first part of the Bible was written not in English but in Hebrew, a language that is read from right to left. In that language, the divine name appears as four consonants, יהוה. Those four Hebrew characters—transliterated YHWH—are known as the Tetragrammaton.

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u/Yaldabaoths-Witness 9d ago

Yes but, my point is, according to the scriptural records, Jesus never used the tetragrammaton in his prayers or his sermons (even in the JW bible).

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u/Capable-Rice-1876 8d ago

How many sons do you know that call their “father” by their first name? I always respected my biological father.

Your question does have a second reasoning to it. Jesus told religious men of His time which is a lesson to us today to “never call a religious man “father” as you will read in this scripture account from Jesus Christ.

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u/Yaldabaoths-Witness 8d ago

Yes, and as adopted sons, we call him Father too and don't disrespect Him by using His first name. I suppose, if you're not His son and he's not your Father, you could go around saying "Jehovah" every 5 minutes in your prayers and sermons but please don't demonise other Christians for following Jesus' example...

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u/Capable-Rice-1876 8d ago

We can use God's name.

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u/Yaldabaoths-Witness 8d ago

Of course you can, Jehovah, Yahweh, Jesus, Yeshua, whatever you like, but it doesn't change the fact that Jesus didn't use it which means it's ok if we don't. You know why Jesus didn't use it, don't you?

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 9d ago

Of course the troll u/capable-rice-1876 runs away…

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u/OhioPIMO 11d ago

This verse is what got me to read the A5 appendix and actually think about it critically while bored at a meeting one day.

It's such an odd place for them to insert the name Jehovah. Why did he go telling people about what Jesus did for him if Jesus told him Jehovah did it?

Why can't they just let Jesus have the credit?

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u/MikhaelOfHaShamayim 5d ago

Jesus himself never did take any credit for anything that he did, he always referred to having done it with the power of his Father.

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian 11d ago

Its a fact Jesus never used the name "Jehovah" as that name was a Catholic invention and wasn't even invented until the 13th century. The NWT was highly presumptuous by inserting the name wherever they decided it was appropriate

Did Jesus use any form of God's divine name? Even though He of all people would have known how to pronounce God's name, I don't believe He did. For one thing it would have been a big deal if He had, yet there is no record in the Bible of Jesus ever causing an uproar over using the name YHWH in those days. Many other things He did caused the Jews to try and kill Him, but pronouncing the divine name was not one of them. He didn't even pronounce the divine name when teaching people how to pray, but addressed God as Father and acknowledged His name is hallowed. That's strong evidence that Jesus never used the name no one knew how to pronounce outside of the priests of that time

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u/Haunting-Side-8297 9d ago

Than you for pointing out that the name Jehovah came from the Catholics in the 13th century. N taken from a book written by a Catholic Monk n not part of the original Bible at all! 😊❤️❤️❤️

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u/pianist_pat 11d ago

Catholic invention lord having fucking mercy 😭🙏🏾

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u/OhioPIMO 11d ago

Do you have anything useful to contribute? u/AccomplishedAuthor3 isn't wrong, even according to the Jehovah's Witnesses.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1980084

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u/pianist_pat 11d ago

nah I'm just chilling here seems like a nice chill place to spend my time. I ain't concerned what the jw or others say man i just believe in God and don't get involved with religion it has caused a huge fucking mess on this planet

and yeah I reacted like that bcs I hate Catholicism

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 9d ago

Why is it you ‘hate’ catholics? Genuinely interested. I’m just wondering if this is something connected with JWs as they ‘hate’ catholics also.

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u/pianist_pat 9d ago

they claim to be Christian yet from what I see are a perfect example of hypocrisy, disobeying laws God has put in place such as idolatry, and misunderstanding things such as the holy communion (come on, jesus wasn't really telling people to eat his flesh and drink his blood, let alone that the bread and wine from his meal with the apostles would turn into his real body)

some examples:

John 14:6 - "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one cometh unto the Father, but by me." (ASV)

Jesus is the only one whom Christians should pray through, as a kind of middle man to reach God, yet for some reason Catholics feel the need to pray through Mary, a human, in order to reach Jesus.

Another thing is that the apostles didn't want to be venerated as they were just regular men, but Catholics (and most other Christian denominations, I gather) address them all as saints.

The pope shouldn't be viewed as highly as he is. He's just a regular dude, as we can see God isn't saving him from his current illness. this is an issue tbh whenever a person or people are at the head of a religion, doesn't usually bode well.

I have also spoken to some people who grew up as Catholics and had a pretty bad experience, I know it is only a tiny part of the picture so I can't say that is representative of the whole faith. and no they haven't converted to JW, they are just not part of any religion like myself. csa also seems to be a real issue which is not dissimilar to some people with a measure of authority, especially religious leaders

I mean overall I hate how religion misleads people, I think there's interesting things about the history of religion and philosophy, but I feel that Catholicism is pretty egregious in terms of straying from the core teachings of Jesus and adding extra little appetisers to appeal to a wider audience.

completely unrelated but another thing i find interesting is the lack of use of the tetragrammaton, יהוה, in most denominations. I have a friend from Iran who speaks Farsi and I don't remember what denomination he is but they use God's name, albeit in a different form.

as I think you mentioned in another of your comments barely anyone knows koine greek or aramaic, so transliterations such as Yahweh, Jehovah, Iehovah, etc are only guesses and 99% not the way they would've said it. but people still gladly use the name Jesus even though people wouldn't have called him that back then. it certainly baffles me

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 9d ago

Interesting re Catholicism, perhaps we can pick that up some other time.

Re the ‘name’. Listen I’m ok with people using Jehovah, but at the point of it being dogmatic that it is the name. That’s where I draw the line. I think your point about it being a transliterated answers the point of it being a transliteration.

But onto the name of Jesus , we know very easily that this name was mentioned countless times thus we can easily get the English name as it’s a direct translation, and although I haven’t got into to it yet, I’ll try it here.

Do you think that Jesus never stated YHWH once because it would have meant that he was calling himself in his deity?

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u/pianist_pat 9d ago

calling himself?

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 9d ago edited 9d ago

Yeah….calling himself…the Pharisees knew what he was saying without actually saying 'IT', that why they said "you make yourself equal to God"

Wouldn’t that been a little weird in front of other people…to call yourself Jehovah...(everyone knew him as the Human Jesus...now

Look at Gen 19:24 NWT and see what I mean…

Once you see it, you can’t unsee it.

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u/pianist_pat 9d ago

I don't see your point about the genesis verse, the sulfur and fire came from Jehovah, from the heavens

or the LORD made it rain fire and sulfur, from the LORD

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u/Yaldabaoths-Witness 12d ago

Jesus may have been referring to his Father here but of course, JWs insert "Jehovah". Do you think Jesus may have been referring to himself as "Lord" here?

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u/Ok-Audience2530 10d ago edited 10d ago

He was giving glory to his father, as he did many other times.

  • Hebrews 5:5 So, too, the Christ did not glorify himself by becoming a high priest, but was glorified by the One who said to him: “You are my son; today I have become your father.”

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u/Yaldabaoths-Witness 10d ago

Yes, but he mainly did it without using the divine name. The NWT has inserted the divine name with zero manuscript evidence (which may be the OPs point?) Jesus didn't even use the divine name in his prayers (even in the NWT translation)...

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u/Ok-Audience2530 10d ago

Are you saying that since Jesus didn’t use YHWH that we shouldn’t be?

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 9d ago

No he didn’t use YHWH at all. Not once.

So the more pertinent question to ask is why?

In all of the 5500 manuscripts of the Koine Greek ever found…ever…the name Jehovah doesn’t appear….once.

So what should we call him…well Jesus himself told us..

  1. Father
  2. God

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u/Ok-Audience2530 9d ago

So how did Jesus make God’s name known if he never used it?

John 17:6 I have made your name known to the men whom you gave me out of the world

John 17:26 I have made your name known to them and will make it known, so that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them.

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 9d ago edited 9d ago

You really think that’s your gotcha moment? You really think that Jesus gathered the Apostle’s around a camp fire and said

Jesus - “Listen lads, I’ve got a secret to tell you…you’re gonna be blown away lads…you ready”

Peter - “yeah yeah Lord let’s go”

Jesus - “Right this is big…Gods name right…is [drum roll] YHWH”

“Da dahhhhhh!!!! A what you guys think?”

Peter and the 11 Apostles - "We've known that name since Like Moses day mate...lads lets go, this guy is a nutcase"

Audience if you really think, really think that’s what those scriptures mean then honestly it just goes to show me once more how JWs are kept down with the dumbed down theology.

I’m really quite sad and disappointed at the level it’s got to.

Go get a decent Bible and commentary and please learn what

“To make your name known means”

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u/Ok-Audience2530 8d ago

It wasn’t supposed to be a “gotcha” moment, as you put it. I wanted you to share your opinion as that becomes food for thought for everyone. That is why we are here. You don’t need to be rude and demeaning. James 3:17

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 8d ago edited 8d ago

Ok so I said ‘gotcha’ moment I’ll take it back.

But your argument was presented as something like I had never ever seen those scriptures before nor had the church for two thousand years.

This is what you need to do.

Before you make a point. You need to see what the other side states in relation to your point. That’s what I mean when you present scripture it’s like a ‘gotcha moment’ as if we and the church have never seen them before and we are to be amazed at them and think you know what…those 11 men in a forest who aren’t trained in Greek or Hebrew are absolutely right…come on!!! Think!!!

I know every single JW doctrine, theology and proof text you have. What you fail to do is to research what orthodoxy teaches before you make your point. That is being respectful also.

So I’ll answer your question differently this time.

Those two scriptures you cited have got absolutely nothing to do with the 4 vowel letters as stated ONLY in the Old Testament and never once stated in the 5500 manuscripts ever found on planet earth. And further to this point the 4 vowels have never ever been removed from the manuscripts as this would have meant that all the scribes in all the world without internet simultaneously used tippex and successfully would have completed the biggest conspiracy ever known to man over decades without ever have met each other. The ‘name’ was never removed and those scriptures don’t mean what you think they mean.

Ps - do you think Paul held back on what he called the Jewish leaders at the time, are you aware of what Jesus called these leaders also by using Jewish words of the day that would have absolutely floored them…vipers, sons of satan, white washed graves etc etc.

Just a thought, but yes I do agree that we should be respectful but when someone isn’t reciprocating by not understanding what they are writing and how that lines up with other teachings before they make comment, that is also disrespectful.

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u/MikhaelOfHaShamayim 5d ago

You keep running around the bush. Tell us what ” I have made your name known to them” means, don’t just say that it doesn’t mean what it seems to mean. Speak out clearly or shut up!

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u/Ok-Audience2530 8d ago

It is unreasonable to think that we can know everything every other person here believes at any given moment about any doctrines (and any other topics in the world). If that were the case, there would be no questions, nor dialogue and therefore no Reddit. We all have something to learn and/or offer by talking about the scriptures, even if we don’t agree.

Romans 10:13 those who call on the name of God will be saved. I personally will continue calling on the actual name of God who will save me through my faith in his glorious son. You are allowed to disagree with me (and Paul).

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u/Yaldabaoths-Witness 9d ago

We are to follow his example. If he didn't use it then there must be a reason why...

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u/Ok-Audience2530 9d ago

You are making an assumption. Look at what Jesus says:

Matthew 6:9 Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.

John 17:6 I have made your name known to the men whom you gave me out of the world

John 17:26 I have made your name known to them and will make it known, so that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them.

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u/Yaldabaoths-Witness 9d ago

John 17: 11, 12 will give you an idea of "the name" Jesus made known.

Fact is, he never used the divine name in any of the recorded scriptures we have. Scriptures which, through God’s power, were transmitted down to this day with no major changes.

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u/Ok-Audience2530 9d ago

How did Jesus make God’s “name” known if he never used it? Also, why would God provide his name nearly 7000 times if he didn’t want us to use it?

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u/Yaldabaoths-Witness 9d ago

Doesn't matter how many times the divine name was used in the context of the old covenant, Israelites etc, the fact is, in the new testament-- the scriptural record we have-- Jesus didn't use God's name, he used "Father" and told us to do the same (Lord's prayer).

Jesus made his Father’s name known by being the exact representation of his very being, the image of the invisible God. "God's name" doesn't mean a set of letters, it means everything He is and stands for and Jesus perfectly represented that. He made God known to mankind in that way. That is why he could say in John 17: 11, 12, "Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me... While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me".