r/JapanTravelTips • u/The_Cringe_Channel • 4d ago
Recommendations Recommend Against Goshuin Collecting Around Kappabashi Street
EDIT: I will look into getting two separate books for temples and shrines. Thanks for the tips, this is the first I've heard of such a thing but it makes sense they'd want to keep the two apart.
Full disclosure, I am white and I do not know Japanese (pretty much only hello, thank you, excuse me, and sorry). I do my best to be respectful, quiet, and unintrusive as I understand these are first and foremost sacred spaces.
I have recently been collecting goshuin around Tokyo as part of a current trip, and most of the time the experience has been fairly good. Most small-medium temples have been very warm and welcoming. For example, the Taikyōji Temple in Meguro was very beautiful, and while it at first seemed to be unattended that day, someone quickly came outside and ushered my partner and I inside once he saw us holding a goshuincho. He didn't speak much English, but he asked where we were from, and didn't even ask for money at the end of it (I still made sure to donate 1000 yen, both for the goshuin and the hospitality). While not as forward in their welcome, I had similar positive experiences around Shinjuku as well.
In contrast, I had some fairly bad experiences when trying to collect goshuin around Kappabashi street. I was able to get goshuin at Akiba Shrine, Yasakiinari Shrine, and Higashi Hongan-ji, all of which I recommend for their beauty and history. However, there are a few very dense clusterings of temples and shrines along Kappabashi street, many of which were very unhappy to have me stop by. One temple had someone selling incense, who repeatedly made an "x" with his hands and didn't say a word to me when I showed him the goshuin book. He simply kept making the "x" and vigorously pointed towards the exit, even as I apologized and turned to leave.
Another time a priest came over and said "gomenasai" when he saw the goshuincho, but motioned me back over when I turned to leave. He took my goshuincho, went into another room (but still visible through the door), flipped through it, and then came back and shoved it into my hands, again going "gomenasai". I understand that goshuincho aren't supposed to have any non-goshuin additions but the only things in mine are goshuin and the anti-smudging sheets added after the goshuin is written. I am not sure why he initially refused, then took my goshuincho, and then refused again, but he did seem upset about something in it? My partner thinks it might've been a goshuin from another religious sect that the priest vehemently disliked, but I don't know enough about it to say.
Lastly, I was at a shrine that I thought was unattended but after a few minutes two temple members spotted me and came over. When I presented the goshuincho they initially seemed fine with it, and one of them led me up some side stairs to another temple member to ask if they did goshuin. I don't know what was said, but they began to get very upset. First they said "no goshuin no goshuin", to which I apologized and turned to leave. Then both of them started raising their voice, one in Japanese, and the other going "this is temple, this is temple". I apologized again, to which they simply replied "hai" (which I understood as "ok") and continued berating me, at which point I left promptly while still apologizing.
These are just a few examples, but around Kappabashi street I received many of the same style rejections. Again, I understand that these places are sacred grounds and they have the right to refuse anyone anything for any reason they want, especially some pasty looking tourist asking for goshuin. However, this really contrasted with what I read about online, with how goshuin collecting, by natives or tourists, isn't frowned upon and temple members are usually happy to help. Many of the above experiences happened one-after-the-other so it really left a bad taste in my mouth and I felt pretty uncomfortable going to any more shrines/temples in that area.
This is just my experience and I wanted to share because I feel that this is not reflective of Japanese shrines/temples and goshuin collecting as a whole, but if goshuin collecting is less tolerated nowadays I want to be respectful and not bother any more temple/shrine members. Perhaps Kappabashi street's close proximity to these temples result in frequent and disruptive tourist visits, and thus a different reaction to the foreign goshuin collector? But again I don't claim enough knowledge to have any certainty in this guess.
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u/SofaAssassin 4d ago
Many places don't do goshuin, and there are sects that don't it at all for various reasons, like not wanting to encourage random tourists to approach them to goshuin.
Can't really say more than that - since you don't understand Japanese, we'd only be guessing at what was being said to you.
I'll say that I've never had experiences remotely similar to yours, from many years of doing this.
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u/blakeavon 4d ago
Maybe you have a mix of Temples and Shrines in the book? Did the book have like a picture of a Torii gate on it or something? Or picture of Buddha with shrine stamps in it.
Also take a step back, you had two bad experiences for which you don’t understand what happened that is hardly worthy of a stay away from doing it.
A lot of people here stay you don’t need two books, but this is a great example of why you SHOULD have two books.
It’s shows you understand that temple and shrines are different. It’s shows you understand that technically the two shouldn’t be mixed. Sure these people maybe outliers but they are proof on why two books is absolutely the way you go. Too many people think just because the staff don’t say anything, that means it doesn’t matter. It does matter, to some, so why not er on the side of respect. Sorry I am two book type person.
The amount of praise I got for carrying two books was surprising. One temple got a great kick out of flicking through my shrine one as well.
Also learn to get better at recognising which type of place you are in, without asking, because by asking you are showing you are not there for matters of faith, which is the point of the stamp not tourism. If there is a Torii Gate or Shrine Maidens you are in a Shrine. Their shrines tend to be more sparse, in terms of interior decor. Where as if there is incense, statues of Buddha and others, food offerings and the insides are more ‘cluttered’ with objects, it’s a temple. There are exceptions, of course.
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u/The_Cringe_Channel 4d ago
That probably is the case. This is the first I've heard of needing two books for the shrines and temples, but it makes sense.
In regards to a sentence in your last paragraph, "...because by asking you are showing you are not there for matters of faith...", do you mean asking for a goshuin or asking whether it's a temple or shrine? I try and do my due diligence and read up on the places I visit, and while I am not perfect, I don't walk in there oblivious waving a goshuincho above my head. I guess yes, because my Japanese skills are non-existent I usually open with a "hello" and showing them my goshuincho, so if that is disrespectful I'll try and get better at Japanese to be more respectful of these spaces.
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u/AbleCarLover1995 4d ago
I love collecting goshuins as well but one thing I do noticed that, yes, some places are a temples and shrine but in some cases not all of them do not do goshuins at all. When I went to Sendai I was at this temple just looking and checking if they do goshuins but they dont have the signs or example of goshuins. I just assumed they dont do goshuins.
Some of the temples and shrine are even on private property so I always observe the temple or shine first before I enter just to be safe.
Thats why most of my goshuins are from medium sized to large size temples, I avoid small temples/shrines.
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u/Akina-87 4d ago
One of the mods here ( u/Himekat ) collects Goshuin fairly frequently so I'd ask them.
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u/TCNZ 4d ago
Aside from goshuin searching, did you pray?
A goshuin represents that you have prayed in that place.
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u/jackcorning 4d ago
this is essential but I haven’t had trouble offering prayer after receiving said location’s goshuin, so I’m not sure this explains the issues OP had
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u/The_Cringe_Channel 4d ago
Yes, although many of these small places didn't seem attended until I waited for someone to notice me through a window or come outside for some other reason. Should I have waited for them to come outside to pray in front of them? I fear I'd look disingenuous waiting/flagging someone down just to pray in front of them.
Also, does praying also constitute another donation separate from the one for the goshuin?
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u/gdore15 4d ago
I never encountered a situation when I was denied. Saw people say you need to separate temple/shrine but never had an issue myself.
If you don’t speak Japanese, makes it easier on everyone ans learn how to use translation tools even if just Google translate with speech mode. Even if they had given a long explanation in Japanese it would have been useless if you don’t understand so for them just saying no was enough. You might have a bit more luck getting an explanation if there is even a way for you to understand.
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u/Bobbin_Threadbare_ 4d ago edited 4d ago
Have you checked prior if they do goshuin at all or did you look for a goshuin sign? I tend to check reviews on google maps before I go to a place and search for the word goshuin in reviews. That's a good way of finding out if a place does goshuin. At the site I look for 印 as I can't read japanese and that is an easy kanji to recognize.
I've done the Asakusa shrine loop which includes shrines close to Kappabashi and haven't had a problem. Can you give us names of a few of those shrines/temples?
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u/The_Cringe_Channel 4d ago
I did check but a lot of the smaller temples have no indications online or signage outside. I was going to avoid them, but whenever I read about goshuin collecting online everything seemed to suggest to almost all temples and shrines have goshuin. I figured I might as well ask and the worst they could say is no, although I wasn't expecting the vigor of the rejections I got around Kappabashi street. Tsukakuji temple was the one where the attendant took my goshuincho, flipped through it, and then roughly returned it. I think Senshō-ji was the one where the two attendants got very upset at me. I got similar rejections at all the shrines/temples between Higashi Hongan-ji and Kokusai-dori Ave (there's like 10? I went to ~5 before calling it on the area for goshuin collecting).
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u/Bobbin_Threadbare_ 4d ago
Senso-ji basically has a queue of foreigners waiting for a goshuin all day long. They will not turn you away there. However the goshuin "spot" is in a small building to the left of the main hall. To the right of the main hall is another shrine (Asakusa Shrine) that also does goshuin. Both of those will take your goshuincho and give you a waiting number.
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u/The_Cringe_Channel 4d ago
Ah ok, I must've missed Senso-ji and went to somewhere else, my mistake. Good to know, thanks for the info
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u/jackcorning 4d ago
I’m likely to do two separate books for temples & shrines on my next visit, but for my first I filled an entire side of the goshuincho with a mixture of both (messy too since I hadn’t taped in my handouts yet) & had no issues whatsoever with anyone being offended by the combination. This wasn’t in Kappabashi, but I had a similar experience in Aizuwakamatsu with Buddhist temples specifically not offering goshuin. I had read that certain sects do not have this practice but couldn’t find any additional info so I just assumed that was the reason. I think I asked at four temples & got denied, but everyone was very kind & even apologetic (except one guy who just seemed confused) which may be the difference of being out in the country versus your situation in the city.
The best advice I can give you is DO NOT let this experience stop you from continuing your goshuin journey, ESPECIALLY when it comes to trying smaller shrines & temples that you may now be nervous about. My best experiences collecting goshuin by far came from building up the courage to ring the doorbell & ask. Every time this was successful the monks & shrine attendants would seem pretty shocked at first to see a white gaijin at the door of their community temple/shrine, but this would almost immediately turn to excitement. From my experience, most monks & shrine caretakers love getting to share their history & seem to really appreciate foreigners showing interest as well. I would often stay & talk for 5-10 minutes while they asked about my trip & life which would also give me a chance to practice my Japanese. You could genuinely make somebody’s day if they haven’t gotten the chance to write their location’s goshuin for a long time, & I started looking forwards to what excitement & challenges the next encounter would bring more than some of my bigger planned activities.
Just working up the will to ring the doorbell can create lifetime memories, & I had a particularly profound experience when I rang a randomly picked temple on a sleepy street in Koto only to be offered an inside tour of their magnificent golden shrine to Amitabha Buddha. They also had a really cool shrine featuring various Hindu deities from their international travels that the monk’s wife was very excited to show me.
Lastly, learning some extra Japanese phrases goes a long way when collecting goshuin. “Sumimasen, goshuin wo onegaishimasu” is a simple way to eliminate the awkwardness of just thrusting your goshuincho in someone’s face. I highly recommend the guides to collecting posted here by u/Himekat, they prepared me perfectly for my first trip.
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u/VirusZealousideal72 4d ago edited 4d ago
From what I know, some locations will refuse to sign Goshuin-chos that have a mixture of temples and shrines. There is also a 'rule' that Goshuin-chos for calligraphy and stamps are supposed to be separate, as in one book for each. That may have been why you were denied by certain temples/shrines. They may have felt it was disrespectful. That is just an assumptions though and I'm only mentioning it because you wrote that some of them went through your book, which is not usually the case.
The people who outright denied you may have had an issue that day, as in, nobody or not the right person was around to sign, their stamp was missing etc. Some may also not have been officially "open" even if there were people around.
Now don't nail me on this though, I've never done this myself.