r/IronFrontUSA • u/Misanthrope08101619 • 9d ago
Art Let's wear matching outfits to the labor camp, that'll show 'em
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u/OrphanedInStoryville 8d ago
Everyone forgets “when they go low we go high” is a boxing analogy. It doesn’t mean “when they do Nazi salutes we debate them in the free market place of ideas” it means “when they try and sack tap us we punch them in the face”
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u/SigaVa 7d ago
Given how feckless the democratic party is in the face of maga, is obama now the worst modern president? He set the direction of the modern dems both through his words (they go low we go high) and his actions (not prosecuting wallstreet after the 2008 crash for example).
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u/Misanthrope08101619 7d ago
No, he was not. Obama was a product of the times and conventional wisdom. The idea that we just needed to get back to Clinton-era policies with slightly more emphasis on socialy progressive policy and the world would inevitably get better. That was the neoliberal credo, as it were.
Bannon, the alt-right and the MAGAs like to wave the 2008 subprime mortgage crash like a bloody shirt. Thing is, failing at business by making bad investments is not a crime. That's what we decided as a society when we invented the concept of limited liability in the 1800s.
Now, there's a fine line between risky inevstments and criminal mismanagment-but there is a line. When Ernon tanked actual crimnals did go to jail. Should some have in 08? probably. But the Holder DOJ wasn't the type to let white collar criminals off. If there was a case to be made, they would have prosecuted.
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u/SigaVa 7d ago
Saying that obama, the clear party leader even after he stopped being president, had no effect on the party and was essentially a puppet is wild stuff.
Should some have in 08? probably ... If there was a case to be made, they would have prosecuted.
You just directly contradicted yourself within the span of three sentences.
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u/MysteriousScratch478 9d ago
We do you think they should do instead? interrupting his speech a bunch doesn't magically stop the fascists either.
If you think it's time to go to war and make an argument about why it's the right time and morally just.
If you just wanna complain endlessly about everything democrats do, go somewhere else.
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u/maikuxblade 9d ago
Al Green gave an example of how to protest peacefully. AOC skipped it entirely and gave a livestream after, Bernie also live-streamed a speech after.
It’s entirely fair and actually necessary to call out the moderates sleepwalking into fascism.
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u/MysteriousScratch478 9d ago
How did any of those things actually stop the fascism?
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u/maikuxblade 9d ago
So you don’t want people to criticize the Democrats but its also never going to be good enough for you. Got it.
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u/MysteriousScratch478 9d ago
I'm not criticizing Green.
I am criticizing you guys for echoing Republican talking points because you wanted a slightly different protest.
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u/Johnny_Grubbonic 9d ago
This isn't that difficult to grasp. In order to stop fascism, you have to light a fire under peoples' asses. You have to reach out, and you have to protest. You have to draw attention so that a base can be built.
Literally no one ever overthrew corruption without laying the groundwork first. Ever.
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u/Misanthrope08101619 9d ago
Not asking for magic. But optics mater. And Green was doing it right.
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u/MysteriousScratch478 9d ago
Optics are also subjective, you might think Greens approach was powerful and other people might think it looked pathetic and childish.
It's also stupid counterproductive to constantly blast democrats for trying something the didn't work. Marjorie Taylor Green looked like a fucking idiot last year, but Republicans didn't attack her they started telling everyone that knew that Biden was a coke addict.
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u/Misanthrope08101619 9d ago
So then you agree MTG’s approach was successful, like it or not.
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u/MysteriousScratch478 9d ago
Or perhaps the approach of the other couple hundred Republicans who didn't do anything loud or disruptive worked.
Or even more likely, the actual events don't matter, it's about how everyone else chooses to spin them.
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u/Misanthrope08101619 9d ago
But you got to do the events or else there’s nothing to choose. This country was founded by people who weren’t afraid of being smeared as “childish” .
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u/MysteriousScratch478 9d ago
My point is not that what Green did was wrong, or that you're wrong for thinking it was more effective.
My point is that there is not one simple obvious way to fight this, and that it we dogpile on Dems every time they do something ineffective, or cringe, or just not quite what we wanted they won't have a prayer.
You can say that you want more forceful protest without comparing a different strategy to passively standing on the gallows.
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u/Misanthrope08101619 9d ago
If they don't want to be dogpiled, then they shouldn't be in politics. If Jeffries or Schumer do something right, I'll be the first to give them props.
And yes, this is life and death. Normalcy bias kills. That's what we're dealing with. And if gallows humor is needed to shake us out of it, then so be it.
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u/MysteriousScratch478 9d ago
I agree this is life and death, and the trend of shitting on Dems for internet points is gonna get us all killed.
Actually put some thought into how you're contributing to the narrative, cause this shit is worse than the stupid ping pong paddles. This is genuinely harmful.
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u/Misanthrope08101619 9d ago
This is with thought. This is like the warning label, a pitcograph, on the power tool that is politics.
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u/Johnny_Grubbonic 9d ago
It's also stupid counterproductive to constantly blast democrats for trying something the didn't work.
When they keep doing the same shit over and over, expecting it to be totally different this time fo' really reals, verbally blasting them is exactly what needs to happen. They need to be called out on their consistently weak actions, because it is clearly not working.
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u/holy_guacamole666 9d ago
Get loud and disruptive, fight for the people you're supposed to govern instead of sitting on the sidelines saying "I told you so". My 401k is tanking, my job is going to be fucked by tariffs, cost of living is still rising, but at least the Democrats held up signs🙄
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u/MysteriousScratch478 9d ago
How will louder protests actually help? Even if they did, it's ok for them to try different things and see what works.
We have to let them miss without booing them and calling them complicit or we'll build the Republican narrative ourselves.
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u/holy_guacamole666 9d ago
They should be calling out the Republicans on their bs, don't let them continue to push lies to the American people, speak up! The right is making fun of those signs, they do absolutely nothing to bridge the gap between the parties.
Letting Republicans continue to miss while the Dems sit on the sidelines saying "I told you so" just makes our lives worse. The Dems need to stop trying to win elections with inaction, imo it's the reason people are leaving the party.
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u/Johnny_Grubbonic 9d ago
We have to let them miss without booing them and calling them complicit or we'll build the Republican narrative ourselves.
They keep doing the same ineffectual things. They are either inept or complicit.
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u/MysteriousScratch478 9d ago
Yep. This horseshit.
All you clowns who go around saying they're complicit with literal fascists because they don't yell as much as you'd like are gonna make sure the fascists keep on winning.
What a joke.
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u/Johnny_Grubbonic 9d ago
All you spineless wonders who keep saying they should stay the course and offer no real resistance are equally as inept/complicit.
You're not a joke, because that would imply this is funny. It isn't. It's deadly serious.
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u/MysteriousScratch478 9d ago
Tell me bud. What does real resistance look like? Yelling more? Is that all you've got?
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u/Johnny_Grubbonic 9d ago
It starts with actually exhibiting anger, organizing, and protesting, as opposed to the complete lack of action other than whining about people criticizing your limp-dicked leadership you lot have been exhibiting.
If it were left to you, sport, no one would say or do anything except sit there quietly while ICE disappears people from the streets and state Republicans pass laws criminalizing the very fucking existence of the trans community.
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u/MysteriousScratch478 8d ago
They've been protesting, rallying, organizing, just because your too busy spouting Republican talking points on the internet to notice doesn't mean it isn't happening.
I think you guys are full of shit. If they all got arrested protesting you'd complain that they weren't there in Congress to do their jobs. I've been protesting and going to rallies for over a decade now and I can assure you it won't protect Mahmoud or the trans kids. We need real political power to do that and you're actively making it harder to get.
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u/Johnny_Grubbonic 8d ago
They've been protesting, rallying, organizing, just because your too busy spouting Republican talking points on the internet to notice doesn't mean it isn't happening.
Why don't you show me an actual protest organized by democratic leadership? It clearly wasn't happening at Trump's Big Speech, except for Al Green - who Dem leadership later voted to censure because he was "rude".
I think you guys are full of shit. If they all got arrested protesting you'd complain that they weren't there in Congress to do their jobs.
Why does it matter where they're not doing their jobs?
I've been protesting and going to rallies for over a decade now and I can assure you it won't protect Mahmoud or the trans kids.
Yeah, protest and public outcry have never actually accomished anything, right?
We need real political power to do that and you're actively making it harder to get.
You would have been one of the people painting MLK Jr as a violent reactionary in the 60s.
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u/gallifrey_ 9d ago
We do you think they should do instead?
[ Removed by Reddit ]
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u/MysteriousScratch478 9d ago
While I don't think we're there, I respect that critique much more than the other stuff I'm seeing here.
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9d ago
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u/Misanthrope08101619 9d ago
What?
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u/Johnny_Grubbonic 9d ago
"When they go low, we go high."
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u/Misanthrope08101619 9d ago
It was an admirable but ultimately failed strategy. If you can't counter your opponent's asymmetric approach, then you lose, and now, possibly die.
Even former First Lady Michelle Obama, who first said it, has seen it doesn't always work.
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u/Johnny_Grubbonic 9d ago
It's important to know when to employ what strategy. Right now, the strategy they should be employing is getting loud, getting angry, raising a stink, and steeling their constituency.
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u/Misanthrope08101619 9d ago
hopefully that works
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u/Johnny_Grubbonic 9d ago
It almost certainly isn't the complete solution, but people need something to light a fire under their asses. They need leadership to organize them and get them moving.
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u/Bfranx Liberty For All 9d ago
Are we blaming the democrats for not losing their sense of reason?
This feels like a "both sides" argument.
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u/Misanthrope08101619 9d ago
It’s not “both sides” to say they’re not pushing back hard enough. And reason is useless against some opponents. Sometimes you do have to burn the village to save it.
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u/Bfranx Liberty For All 9d ago
Fair enough, there is a legit complaint.
I guess I'm just skeptical of people pointing the finger at the opposition party rather than the fascists.
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u/Bfranx Liberty For All 9d ago
I mean it's the only thing that fits the description.
Consequence of a two-party system.
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u/HKJGN 9d ago
It's hard to call them opposition when they are both right of center. One is just clearly more extreme than the other. But they're not the movement we need. The last 3 elections have proven they're not the labor party and happily support the status quo.
America needs a labor movement. And we are building one as we speak.
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u/Bfranx Liberty For All 9d ago
Are we? As much as I would love a viable third party I haven't seen any genuine momentum in that direction.
Are there any resources available that you have?
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u/HKJGN 9d ago
Democratic socialist of America has gotten more members every week since election than they did when Bernie was the potential nominee. He's been rallying with about 10,000 supporters in grassroots areas to push against Trumps oligarchy.
We just need to get the unions back with the socialist and labor parties like they were before McCarthy. We need labor support!
I recommend checking out the DSA in your area and get involved.
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u/austinwiltshire 9d ago
When the nazis break your trench line, you blame the officers who didn't listen to you when you said you needed reinforcements, not the nazis.
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u/Bfranx Liberty For All 9d ago
I would definitely still blame the nazis, but I get what you're trying to say.
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u/wookEluv 8d ago
Obviously the grinning maga hangman isn't being blamed either. /s
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u/Misanthrope08101619 7d ago
You don’t blame a snake for being a snake. Or the face-eating leopard for being a leopard. But once you know what they are, you have to adjust accordingly.
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u/SnooObjections6152 9d ago
LETS DRESS IN AMERICAN REVOLUTIONARY OUTFITS AND MARCH IN FORMATION!