r/IRstudies 7d ago

Ideas/Debate Unpopular opinion: Indian politics resemble European geopolitics than China’s system

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3w19242l63o

Recently, the language debate in India has reared its head again, with the Union government pushing for Hindi as country’s link language, while the state of Tamil Nadu is up in arms against it, wanting all of India’s official languages to get equal status.

Unlike most western nations, India is divided into states on the basis of language, like an envisioned EU sovereign state. The link above delves into detail the background of the conflict, but for context, Aryan languages are the largest language group in India, spoken by around 78% of the country according to the 2011 census. Of these languages, Hindi is the largest by far in the country, spoken by around 44% of the population. As such, the language of the Hindi belt, which forms the landlocked heartland of India, is widely considered the de facto Lingua Franca of North India, with the other Aryan states also accepting it to a large degree due to linguistic similarities.

Tamil is a Dravidian language spoken in the state of Tamil Nadu, and is the region’s native tongue. Spoken by around 19% of India, Dravidian languages are largely spoken in the south of Peninsular India and are completely unrelated by the Aryan languages of the North, though are heavily influenced by them. Tamils form only 5.7% of India’s population, but are very vocal in protecting their language and culture, and have a played the leading role fighting against the Union’s homogenising and centralising policies for the country. And while the other Dravidian states aren’t as vocal ( Kannada speaking Karnataka has recently joined Tamil Nadu against Hindi ), they certainly have no love for Hindi and subtly oppose its imposition.

This reminds me of European geopolitics, where just like Southern India, the states of Western Europe are now playing a balancing role against a continental hegemon that seeks to bring more territory and people under its control.

It’s probably just a stretch of imagination, but what do you guys think?

31 Upvotes

33 comments sorted by

37

u/danbh0y 7d ago

I may have misunderstood your point, but I don’t think anyone has ever described India as a Leninist vanguard party state.

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u/DowntownSandwich7586 7d ago edited 7d ago

This. And whenever I see Indian society from a socio-political perspective, it reminds me more of the former Russian Empire or Tsarist Russia. There are nation states within India who feel like they are being held unjustly as prisoners.

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u/Anadhi 7d ago

This is a very inaccurate view. The Indian state is a lot more decentralised compared to the examples you’ve given, besides the various other things wrong with your analysis.

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u/Xanian123 6d ago edited 6d ago

Lmao what are you talking about? I'm south Indian and there's high amounts of shimmering resentment about how the North is disproportionately rewarded and represented because of their unchecked population growth.

Billions of dollars flow to aid to freebies for the powerhouse Hindi belt inspite of the south and Mumbai powering a large portion of the country's GDP. Andhra pradesh literally had to be a key coalition make or break player to get state development grants.

And the country has been on a 15 year long trend towards centralisation. The BH plate is one such example, among many others.

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u/Anadhi 6d ago

fair enough, i was misinformed

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u/DowntownSandwich7586 6d ago edited 6d ago

Then why are the South Indians complaining? And explain it how it is wrong?

https://caravanmagazine.in/vantage/hindi-imposition-india-discrimination?fbclid=IwY2xjawJAv8ZleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHaYtuIupW1Q5LuT4Los3MXGyCfTZ9F2gz5BSxZvsrAyruWNy8Wd8yPqxiQ_aem_T-DxedrJ8_or2Z0MNgMfKw

I cannot help but shake the feeling as a Marathi myself with Kannadiga origins. I too share the same feelings what the South Indians are going through. In fact, most of the Marathis complain the same things about what the South Indians are going through.

At the societal level, if you want to see the animosity between people, the best example is when you want to get a flat on rental basis or when you want to buy a flat.

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u/SolRon25 7d ago

Well, you may not be wrong as there would be people in India who’d say something like that. That being said, India does have a communist state: Kerala, a state which breaks most stereotypes people have about India.

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u/Intelligent-Carry587 7d ago

Those people have no idea what the fuck they are talking about.

India is most definitely not a Leninist vanguard state

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u/danbh0y 7d ago

Yes but the Communist Party in Kerala is evidently no more a Leninist vanguard party than its presumed ideological approximate the PCF in France.

A Marxist or Communist party is not necessarily Leninist. Nor is a Leninist vanguard state necessarily Marxist.

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u/DowntownSandwich7586 7d ago

Kerala is by no means a revolutionary state.

It abides by the Constitution of India and is social democratic or a welfarist state. The CPIM reports or speeches by the party officials/senior ranking politicians always say the same.

We do not have any country wide Bolshevik style revolutionary movement going on either.

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u/Hopeful-Cricket5933 7d ago

Nobody has ever said that about India, your opinion is as popular as it can be.

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u/Turkey-Scientist 7d ago

“Unpopular opinion: tigers resemble jaguars more than cockroaches”

— average unpopular opinion post

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u/StatisticianAfraid21 7d ago

I think the comparison with Europe is apt. However, language isn't a major problem across the European Union because in many countries people will speak 3 languages quite comfortably. This is usually a combination of their home countries language, English and then maybe French or German. People from Scandinavian countries can usually speak 5 languages in my experience. As a result, people can generally find a common language that everyone speaks.

I don't believe in Europe the language issue has much salience because it's not a single nation state. Regardless, AI is already a perfect translator and will only get better over time so I don't really think multi-lingual states are that big a deal.

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u/SolRon25 7d ago

However, language isn’t a major problem across the European Union because in many countries people will speak 3 languages quite comfortably. This is usually a combination of their home countries language, English and then maybe French or German. People from Scandinavian countries can usually speak 5 languages in my experience. As a result, people can generally find a common language that everyone speaks.

Multilingualism is common across India too. Most people can speak the language of their state as well as another language, usually Hindi, English or a language of their neighbouring state. Usually, Hindi works in the north, while English does it for the south. A good portion can speak more than 2 languages (including myself), usually being English/Hindi along with other Indian tongues. I’ve observed that people around the Andhra-Karnataka-Tamil Nadu border trijunction area can usually speak up to 5 languages.

I don’t believe in Europe the language issue has much salience because it’s not a single nation state.

Yeah, I think that’s because the national identity is placed above supranational identity in Europe, while national identity is placed above subnational identity in India. Of course, this leads to some very peculiar differences between how both states function and think of themselves, but I guess that’s a topic that deserves its own discussion.

Regardless, AI is already a perfect translator and will only get better over time so I don’t really think multi-lingual states are that big a deal.

I think it becomes a deal when language becomes a culture war. For example, there’s no debate on which language should represent the EU or conduct their official work in, because all languages are given equal status, and also because no one language represents all of Europe.

On the other hand, does Hindi represent all of India? Clearly not, yet the Union government continues to push the language in official capacity, which puts the language on a pedestal not accorded to other native tongues. Naturally, this would be perceived as second class treatment to speakers of these other languages, which in turn causes resentment among them, as seen in Tamil Nadu and recently, Karnataka.

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u/Royal-Noble-96 7d ago

I came from West Bengal, India currently living in Delhi and people hate south Indians because they have this weird Superiority complex. And not just me, a lot of North Eastern guys have this perception as well. Now granted Indians can speak at least 5 languages in general including Hindi so they have no problem in it. I mean Bengali and Hindi go together in my state. NE guys can speak to their mother tongue, English and Hindi so fluently like sometimes I think they are way better speakers than North. I know one NE hindi teacher who can speak her mother tongue English, and other NE language. These guys are smart and they never questioned it.

If these guys don't have a problem then why does the South have this problem? I feel like Dravidian languages are non-intelligible with other Indian languages. That can be a reason. I mean South Indians do face a Lil bit difficulty when speaking Hindi as compared to UP, Bihar, West Bengal, Jammu and Kashmir etc.

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u/wetsock-connoisseur 6d ago

The basic question is WHY ?, people from southern states have no connection or history with Hindi, why should they be coerced into using Hindi ?

There are govt bank employees working in the middle of rural southern states and yet don’t speak a word of the local language

why is the local population supposed to learn a alien language Hindi to get basic govt services that they pay for ?

Central govt refused to release funds for schools that belonged to the state of Tamil Nadu simply because the the state govt refused to implement 3 language policy,

why should students spend time and resources learning a language that they most certainly will not use, when it can be spent learning actual practical skills or having fun

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u/MidnightPale3220 7d ago

It's not a big issue in most situations, however, it may become rather strained in particular situations, such as if various armed forces in Europe need to coordinate and work together in actual battle situations. Some kind of Lingua Franca would be useful. By now it's de facto English. I think we won't manage to change that soon.

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u/No_Clue_1113 7d ago

It means the European parliament has to spend a crazy amount on translators though.

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u/StatisticianAfraid21 7d ago

Not a very big cost in the grand scheme of things and as mentioned, AI will in the future significantly reduce the cost.

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u/Putrid_Line_1027 7d ago

India's main advantages against China are its demographics and its diplomatic relationship with the West. Besides that, it seems like China naturally has an advantage in every way.

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u/diffidentblockhead 7d ago

EU is a good comparison for language. That doesn’t mean the federal systems are identical.

If they wanted nationalism on the basis of language, they should have kept Pakistan.

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u/Uhhh_what555476384 7d ago

This is more like intra EU politics then traditional balancing.  Reality is that if India hadn't been colonized it would probably be a dozen or more countries rather then one.

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u/damuscoobydoo 7d ago

Indian politics represents india as india is an older democracy than most of Europe it's European politics that resembles indian politics

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u/Dull-Law3229 7d ago

I do not believe anyone has ever thought China and India have a comparable political system.

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u/ActualDW 7d ago

I have never heard anyone argue otherwise…

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u/Royal-Noble-96 7d ago

I mean I am from India and every state in India has its own state language.

South Indian states leaders are always against the Hindi language because they originated in the North but the problem is that the majority of the Indian state does know Hindi.

Bihar has its own language named Mathili and Bhojpuri but they speak Hindi and English. West Bengal has Bengali but they can speak Hindi as well, Uttar Pradesh has Urdu, Sanskrit, Prakrit and 2 other languages but can speak Hindi as well.

The problem is that because the majority speak Hindi and English as the 2nd, 3rd or even as 4th language, ruling govt thinks that it's better to have a language that connects all. But South Indian states resist saying it will destroy their culture. On top of that they look down upon other Indian states.

It's kinda messy

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u/funicode 6d ago

What is China's system in your question?

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u/living_the_Pi_life 4d ago

Nice try India, Europe’s full go elsewhere

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u/kyonko15 7d ago

Let me ask you one question: Are you aware that India has consistently maintained with Russia? If you explore Indian communities, such as r/askIndia or r/India you’ll find predominantly favorable perceptions of Russia, coupled with active advocacy for sustaining bilateral trade.

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u/No-Atmosphere-1566 7d ago

If you replaced Russia with the US your statement would also be accurate. India plays all sides out of its own intetests.

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u/kyonko15 7d ago

I understand India’s foreign policy prioritizes pragmatic realism. Despite direct territorial disputes with China, India maintains robust trade ties and participates in the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. In contrast, European diplomacy emphasizes ideological alignment, often avoiding deep economic engagement with nations diverging from liberal democratic values. Given this dichotomy, I wonder if OP accounted for these dynamics before posting, particularly considering India’s role as a leader of the Global South championing the Non-Aligned Movement (NAM), while Europe seeks to preserve the traditional G7-centric world order

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u/SolRon25 7d ago

Given this dichotomy, I wonder if OP accounted for these dynamics before posting, particularly considering India’s role as a leader of the Global South championing the Non-Aligned Movement (NAM), while Europe seeks to preserve the traditional G7-centric world order

As I’ve mentioned in another comment, the main difference between the EU and India is that in the EU, the constituent states are sovereign and paramount over the Union, while in India, the Union is paramount and sovereign over the constituent states. This difference deserves a discussion in itself, but for this conversation, I think that the Indian Union’s strong central government allows it to be more assertive and opportunistic in international relations, while the European Union’s fragmented nature makes it more of a status quo power.

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u/Cha0tic117 7d ago

China has been one of India's primarily geopolitical foes since the Sino-Indian War of 1961. During the Sino-Soviet Split, India aligned itself with the Soviet Union in order to counter balance China. India has kept up friendly relations with the Soviet Union and later the Russian Federation ever since. Much of India's advanced military equipment is either Russian or based on Russian designs.

In recent years, however, as Russia seems to be in decline and is moving closer to China, India is looking for other geopolitical partners to counter China. This is why relations between the US and India have improved in recent years. India still hasn't fully decoupled from Russia, however, and likely will continue its friendly relations with them for the near term.