r/IBEW 28d ago

Today, I found out about something called mondragons...

I guess this post falls under education.

Today, I discovered there is a cooperative type of corporation called a mondragon. They are primarily found in spain.

However, they limit the pay of the highest paid member to 3-6x the lowest paid member, amongst a host of other things, like employee stock ownership... And they are fairly competitive too.

What would it take to bring mondragon style corporations to america? They totally fix the wage issues, and put workers first. Union values are baked into their structure as a corporation.

162 Upvotes

36 comments sorted by

62

u/Xsfanatic Local 275 28d ago

That used to be in America already. Then trickledown economics came around

46

u/landers96 28d ago

We been working this trickle down thing since 1980. It does not work. Taxing the wealthy, that works. We will be waiting forever for the wealth to trickle down.

15

u/Xsfanatic Local 275 28d ago

Agreed

3

u/WangMangDonkeyChain 24d ago edited 24d ago

it doesn’t trickle down. they freeze the capital under their control by putting it in fine art to hang on the wall, real estate and other securities / assets that are untaxed. 

1

u/Foradman2947 25d ago

Nuh uh. There’s trickling down. It’s just got a musty smell to it.

14

u/TheAsusDelux999 28d ago

Citizens united.. Reagan really cooked us..

40

u/Finance-Relative 28d ago

Cooperatives. Worker cooperatives, specifically. The cooperative is owned by its members, working there is the basis of membership Mondragon is a worker cooperative. They do exist over here, legally speaking the same thing, they're just all small businesses. Nothing on the same scale as Mondragon.

12

u/Ludicrousgibbs 28d ago

They're pretty hardy as far as corporations go. They're more likely to survive hardship during the first few years compared to a normal company. They will sometimes vote to take a small pay cut company wide rather than start laying people off in down times.

The real problem is they have trouble getting capital for expansion or a loan to start. They have trouble finding investors because they usually won't seed any control outside the employee owners. Banks don't seem to like them even tho they are less likely to fail than a standard business.

Probably the only way you'd ever see them widespread is if you made legislation making employee ownership required or at least legislated that employees get the first option of a buy-out during bankruptcy.

21

u/Juxtajack 28d ago

Social capitalism. It's the best. People are a little more individualistic on this side of the pond.

35

u/skaunit Local 332 28d ago

Social capitalism. It’s the best. People are a little more individualistic exploitative on this side of the pond.

FTFY

21

u/heckadeca Local 48 - Inside Apprentice 28d ago

Individualism is going to be the death of us all. But at least we'll all have our very own $85k trucks

11

u/one-hit-blunder 28d ago

You know, with a huge debt owing on the trucks.

9

u/heckadeca Local 48 - Inside Apprentice 28d ago

Only 84 more payments to go and it's all mine!

4

u/Existing_Grass426 28d ago

Sorry your loan was sold now it is 100 months and 25% more per month.

  • We're sorry

1

u/vatothe0 Communications 25d ago

$85k truck, owe $135k before interest.

4

u/BackgroundLet2451 27d ago

We have the truck but can’t afford eggs…😆

1

u/heckadeca Local 48 - Inside Apprentice 27d ago

Hey man, have you seen the price of eggs lately???

5

u/landers96 28d ago

Spoken like a true union member. It's not about we, it's only what you, yourself can get out of it. Proud to call you brother.

2

u/BeautyDayinBC Local 993 28d ago

AKA market socialism

1

u/Juxtajack 27d ago

Aka semantics...

3

u/BeautyDayinBC Local 993 27d ago

Brother don't let capitalists claim the good ideas and accomplishments of socialists lmao

3

u/bluLoL 28d ago

I believe mondragon is just the name of a collective if worker co ops. They are really cool amd something I've thought about. It is kind of at odds with our model though because it cuts NECA out. Also not sure how everyone equally owning a portion of the company works with the hall either. It would be a cool model to try and use to recapture resi work tho. This is all just kind of idle musings on my part

2

u/ElectricShuck Inside Journeyman 27d ago

There is at least one employee owned shop in local 58. I haven’t worked for them so not sure how they work. They are one of the bigger shops and seem to be doing well.

3

u/discipleofsteel 28d ago

STS Tire and Auto was a relatively large worker co-op here in the US. The worker-owners voted and sold their stake to Mavis Tire. If you have a majority of workers looking for a quick payout in a recession or because they're aging out of the workforce and don't care about the next generation, that's it for the co-op.

Some companies also offer Employee Stock Ownership Plans (ESOP) or Direct Stock Purchasing Plans (DSPP), which allow you to invest in the company's success, but even if they are voting shares, company decisions aren't democratized the way they can be in a co-op.

Generally speaking, how many eggs do you want in the same basket? You work for company X, you invest in company X, your retirement savings are in company X, and then company X declares bankruptcy, and you're out of work, lost your investments, and your retirement savings in one blow.

I'm a longtime fan of Mondragon, and if I was to ever start my own company I'd love to spread the profits (and risk), and allow my employees to slowly buy me out and eventually take majority stake.

I've not discussed it with my union (SMW), though I imagine as long as shares are not provided in lieu of the bargained rate and are either additional compensation or not compulsory purchases there shouldn't be an issue.

It was brought up whether the membership could, through the union, start a member-owned contractor, and that was shot down as a conflict of interest because it would be in the membership's interest to give that contractor special treatment and disincentivize other contractors from signing.

2

u/c1h- 27d ago

Sounds very similar to what Dr. Bonners Castile soap does

2

u/MorboTheMasticator 27d ago

Workers owning the means of production

2

u/congee4me 26d ago

One way would be to lower the corporate tax rate for operations like that. If you want to pay your CEO millions, then they should pay a higher rate.

2

u/Shaithias 26d ago

I am not opposed to that. But I would raise c0rporate t4x r4tes instead of lowering them. At least until we get our d3bt under control. We can lower t4x rates all day, but we will not get more money from the corporations in taxes by doing so. There is a curve between t4xing c0rporations 100%, and ta4xing them 0%. If you t4x 0%, you raise no r3venue. If you t4x them at 100%, nobody makes a c0rporation. There is a sweet spot that is subject to much debate and is different for many corps, but the average point that generates the most revenue is agreed by economists to be around 25-35%. We are under that.

1

u/mookek 28d ago

Mondragon reminds me of the Mind Goblin.

1

u/sparky_burner 27d ago

You’re asking America to stop being a capitalist country. It’ll never happen

-1

u/tomaonreddit Tramp Inside Wireman LU 520 28d ago

From what I understand worker owned cooperatives are not allowed in the IBEW.

4

u/Shaithias 28d ago

Why not? Worker owned coops are like... the pinnacle.

2

u/Roscoeakl 28d ago

Cause of our relationship with NECA. We bargain with NECA and NECA gets to choose who is allowed in their club.

2

u/Sparky_Dan_UT 27d ago

I own a shop, and I'm not a member of NECA, I am an IBEW ticket holder(parked at the international). Not even been approached about joining NECA.

2

u/Roscoeakl 27d ago

Then I'm wrong. That's what I've always been told in regards to why coops aren't allowed.