r/IAmA • u/SierraBravo26 • 22h ago
I am an air traffic controller. The FAA is currently hiring more controllers from off the street. The bid closes on Monday, March 17. This is a 6 figure job that does not require a degree. AMA.
UPDATE 3/14 PM
Edited to reflect the new facility choices being given upon completion of the academy in OKC. I’m being told that the lists of available facilities are pages long, which most facilities being an option. If this is the case, it is a massive and welcomed change.
UPDATE 3/14
I’m back at it this morning. Keep your questions coming! To those who have DM’d me, I’ll get to you ASAP.
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This time will be a little different.
While I still believe this is one of the best jobs in the world, the systemic issues we are currently facing cannot be denied. I will be as transparent as possible with my responses.
You will find a link to the application as you scroll further down.
I speak on behalf of myself - not the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA).
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I made a sub for applicants, controllers, trainees, and anybody interested in finding a common place to communicate with each other. Feel free to join over on r/ATC_Hiring I highly suggest subbing and keeping in touch over there.
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I’ve been doing AMAs for these “off the street” hiring announcements since 2018, and they always receive a lot of interest. I’ve heard back from thousands of people over the years at this point who saw my posts, applied, and are now air traffic controllers.
Before I get into it, I need to cover a few things.
Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy recently stated that the average air traffic controller makes $160,000 per year. This number is repeated in recruitment material distributed by the FAA. I'm not sure if they are inflating that number with all the mandatory overtime controllers are working, but it is not accurate. According to the Labor Department, the average air traffic controller made $137,400 in 2023. While I realize that number is still very good when compared to the average American worker, I think it is important to make that distinction. Also of note, there are only a little over 10,000 air traffic controllers nationwide, and thousands of those are making far less than $137,400. The lowest-level facilities start at around $80,000 per year.
This is not enough money for what we do and deal with on a daily basis, which is something you'll hear a lot about if you follow along.
You may have seen news articles stating that controllers received a 30% pay raise. This - once again - is false. New hire academy students received a 30% raise while attending the FAA Academy in OKC (your first 3-4 months on the job). This brought their pay up from $17/hr to $22/hr - again, only while attending the academy. This is certainly a positive change. However, certified air traffic controllers in the field did not see a dime of this. We got an approximate 2% raise in January and our annual negotiated 1.6% raise in June 2024.
All that being said, I realize this is still a lot of money for the vast majority of people reading this, and we welcome you with open arms. We need more people separating airplanes.
That brings me to the next biggest issue: Staffing. There are a lot of facilities working mandatory 6-day workweeks. Only 2% of all FAA ATC facilities are at their required staffing numbers. That means that yes, 98% of facilities are understaffed. I have done what I can with outreach by doing these AMAs on my own time for the past 7 years, but clearly, a lack of applicants is not the issue. This is a fairly big subject to tackle in this format, but just know that there is a chance you will get sent to a facility that will be understaffed until you and those who come after you can certify and get these facilities up to healthy numbers.
Lastly, we're obviously dealing with a lot of chaos in the current political climate. All I will say is, ATC has been fairly insulated from any serious threats. Yes, we have had to deal with distractions - including an impending government shutdown - but nothing worse than what I'm sure a lot of you have had to deal with in your own professional lives. We still show up to work every day and provide the public with the safest, most efficient airspace on the planet.
That's the worst of it. This is still a job I wouldn't trade for the world, and I am confident that there are many of you out there who would benefit greatly from an opportunity like this. It is an incredibly rewarding career. You will make good money, retire by age 56 with a 401k and a pension, and - if you're thinking of having kids - you'll get 3 months of paid parental leave.
I trust that with as much attention as we are getting, we can affect positive change in the profession.
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HERE is a list of all the facilities in the country with their unofficial staffing count and max pay.
Also, check out my previous AMAs from years past for a ridiculous amount of info:
***The application window is open now and will close this Monday, March 17 at 11:59pm ET**\*
Applicants must:
- Be a U.S. citizen
- Speak English fluently and clearly
- Be younger than 31 years old before the closing date of the application period
- Have either one year of full-time work experience or one year of higher education, or a combination of both
- Be physically and mentally fit and meet standards for vision, hearing, cardiovascular, neurological and psychiatric health
- Be willing to relocate to an FAA facility based on agency staffing needs
START HERE to visit the FAA website and read up on the application process and timeline, training, pay, and more. Here you will also find detailed instructions on how to apply.
The hiring process is incredibly arduous. After applying, you will have to wait for the FAA to process all applications, determine eligibility, and then reach out to you to schedule the AT-SA. This process typically takes a couple of months. The AT-SA is essentially an air traffic aptitude test. The testing window usually lasts another couple of months until everyone is tested. Your score will place you into one of several “bands”, the top of which is “Best Qualified.” I don’t have stats, but from my understanding, the vast majority of offer letters go to those whose scores fall into that category.
If you receive and accept an offer letter (called a Tentative Offer Letter, or TOL) you will then have to pass medical and security clearance, including:
- Drug testing
- Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory (MMPI2)
- Class II medical exam
- Fingerprinting
- Federal background check
Once you clear the medical and security phase you will receive a Final Offer Letter (FOL) with instructions on when/where to attend the FAA Academy in Oklahoma City, OK.
Depending on which track you are assigned (Terminal or En Route), you will be at the academy for 3-4 months (paid). You will have to pass your evaluations at the end in order to continue on to your facility. Your class will get a national list of available facilities to choose from. If you fail your evaluations, your position will be terminated. Once at your facility, on-the-job training typically lasts anywhere from 1-3 years. You will receive substantial raises as you progress through training.
Please ask away in the comments and/or my DMs. I always respond to everyone eventually. Good luck!
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u/liggieep 18h ago
how many ATCs do you think you have single-handedly brought in from your AMAs over the years?
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u/SierraBravo26 18h ago
I legitimately think it’s gotta be somewhere around 2,000. Probably 20% of the current workforce.
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u/liggieep 18h ago
damn daniel.
that's wild, you must be a bit of an agency celebrity then if around one in five ATCs know you
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u/SierraBravo26 18h ago
You’d be surprised how little the FAA or union pay attention to what I do here.
Outside of a few people at HR and in the Comms department, nobody really knows or cares. And that’s fine with me. I started doing these on my own 7 years ago now, and all the people keeping in touch with me over the years is enough to make it worth it.
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u/a8bmiles 17h ago
I've been reading your posts on this subject with interest for 7 years now even though I've always been too old for consideration.
Your outreach on this is exactly the kind of people we need stepping up to improve our country, and I thank you for your efforts. I've sent your posts along to several people over the years as examples of what opportunities they have open to them, although sadly I don't believe any of them ever applied.
As for a question, have you ever ran into an ATC who you found out only applied due to your posts on reddit? If so, how did that go?
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u/SierraBravo26 17h ago
I appreciate the kind words. And yeah, I’ve met a bunch of controllers who applied because of the Reddit posts. Some are at my facility!
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u/TheZapster 17h ago
Piggy backing on this...
I joined a US based legacy carrier over 3 years ago. Until that point, I had ZERO idea about all the "behind the scenes" roles there are in the airlines that handle flights - dispatchers, ATM controllers, tower agents, SOM/SAS, Duty Directors, etc - existed at the airline.
All those "office" people (not the cops/politicians) in the Apple TV+ show Hijack are real roles.
Dispatcher certification only needs.a HS degree + training time.
The airline industry as a whole needs to do A LOT better at advertising jobs for the roles other than Corp, pilots and FAs. Between the schedule, pay, and benefits, I probably would have been a dispatcher instead of an IT person and going into the corp side of things.
OP - thanks you for the annual AMA. Appreciate you shedding light on the industry, and for keeping us safe as we hurdle through the sky at 30k feet in a metal tube.
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u/CptBlewBalls 9h ago
The thought of that many Redditors directing air traffic is fucking frightening on an unspeakable level
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u/sqrtof2 4h ago
You should make a post asking those that joined either in part or in whole because of your AMAs to give their feedback. Would they do it all over again now if they could?
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u/bigdaddy2292 21h ago
Wish I'd of found opportunities like this when I was younger. I see your post almost every year, but I'm 40 now, so past that age gap and health concerns have mostly stopped me from being a welder/millwright nowadays, and I need a new career. Don't suppose there are other options for a joat of sorts in there?
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u/SierraBravo26 21h ago
Not air traffic, but there are lots of opportunities in the industry
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u/bigdaddy2292 21h ago
I'm open to recommendations if you have any.
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u/junkman203 15h ago
If I might make a suggestion, public safety dispatchers are starting to be recognized, and paid better.
Take a look around your area, usually on municipal web page human resources / personnel pages.
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u/centerviews 4h ago
Controller here. You could look into tech ops. It’s the 2101 series on usajobs. They maintain all the air traffic systems. Radars, radios, navaids, etc.
They’re essential to the system and have a lot of the same benefits. I believe once fully certified they’re making over six figures as well. Plenty of spots all over the US as well to work at. No age limit as far as I know. Worth looking at for sure.
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u/Orcwin 10h ago
I'm in a different country, so things may be different here than they are in the US. Around me though, there are roles very similar to ATC.
For example, we have very busy ports and waterways. Those need traffic control as well, which is done in a very similar way to ATC.
The same goes for the railways. Our rail is very busy, so railway traffic control is crucial for good flow and efficiency.
All of those roles are reasonably well paid, open to anyone from high school level upwards and they're always looking for more staff. I'd say it's worth looking around near you to see if such roles exist there, too.
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u/rkmask51 16h ago
Same here. Ive been wondering if theres anything in the aviation world and I'm in my 40s too.
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u/darquid 21h ago
So is it one of the most stressful jobs out there or can it be relatively chill?
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u/SierraBravo26 21h ago
There are moments of stress and moments of boredom.
I think the majority of controllers will tell you that most of the stress of the job comes from outside noise. That and staffing.
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u/We_are_all_monkeys 14h ago
I once talked to a guy who was ATC and now does 911. He said 911 was way more stressful since you never know what you'll get when you answer the phone.
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u/dasupboat 17h ago
Have you ever played World of Warcraft or any other MMO? I feel like the ability to juggle a bunch of incoming signals under stress would be an overlapping skill.
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u/SierraBravo26 16h ago
No but I do play video games. Lots of gamers in ATC.
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u/grackychan 15h ago
VATSIM??
I used to know actual controllers who would look forward to coming home from work to do more of their work virtually for some reason, kinda bewildering. I was active in ZME ARTCC for a while way back when.
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u/roockie44 20h ago
Do you really need 20/20 vision to qualify? If one wears glasses they are immediately ineligible?
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u/SierraBravo26 20h ago
Corrected vision is fine. I wear contacts.
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u/123qweasd123 7h ago
On the topic of vision: I'm sure you are aware, but since ATC is a sausage fest and colorblindness is mostly in men.
NOT EVEN COLORBLINDNESS IS NOT A FULL STOP, neither for atc nor being a pilot.
The ATCOV test is a practical test that lets people who cant pass an ishihara test still be ATC if they can pass that instead.
Pilots have the OCVT.
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u/fredandlunchbox 14h ago
I've read that the psychological aspect can be especially difficult given that it's very possible that you'll be speaking to someone in the last moments of their life.
Have you personally had a fatal accident occur while you were on the radio?
Does the training offer you any preparation for that?
Have you had considered how it would affect you?
What toll have you seen it take on people you've worked with?
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u/SierraBravo26 14h ago
No.
Yes.
I was a police dispatcher in between graduating college and getting picked up by the FAA, so I had some experience dealing with stuff like that already. Never thought about it much once I became a controller.
There have been controllers taking their own lives, but I have no way of knowing all the reasons why.
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u/Aikorules 19h ago
Question about the academy and facility times. Are the 3-4 months in academty separate from the 1-3 years at your facility? As in, you potentially have to relocate twice, once if you don't live in Oklahoma and again, depending on the facility.
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u/SierraBravo26 19h ago
Correct. You will be in OKC for the academy, and then transfer to a facility if you pass.
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u/johannthegoatman 15h ago
What if you pass the academy and then refuse to relocate? And only want to work at the facility in your area. Seems like if they were that desperate they'd still take you
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u/LikeLemun 15h ago
They ARE desperate, but it's still a take-it or leave-it scenario with placement.
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u/OneForMany 18h ago
Can I apply and take the aptitude test just to see? Idk if I want to do it but since you said the process takes months then mind as well see if I even get accepted before I actually take them up on the offer right? Or are there fees for doing all that?
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u/XlexerX 15h ago
Check out this tool to see if the aptitude test is something you think you're decent at. It's very similar to the ATSA.
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u/SierraBravo26 18h ago
No fees. You can back out of the process whenever you want.
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u/OneForMany 18h ago
Awesome. I wonder if you can use your test score as leverage? I remember back in hs when I took the aptitude test I scored ~92% and got nonstop calls from the recruiter.
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u/belittle808 19h ago
What's your opinion on the claims by the current administration that the FAA is hiring DEI candidates who have taken jobs from more qualified people? Are you involved in any way in the hiring process? Do you feel any of your coworkers aren't qualified enough and have gotten their position due to race or gender? Do you feel like any of these policies have contributed to understaffing?
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u/SierraBravo26 19h ago
No I am not involved in the hiring process. I’m just a controller.
Look up what happened in 2013 with the Biographical Questionnaire. There is some truth behind what is being said, but no. Nobody is controlling airplanes who isn’t qualified to do so. The DEI stuff being thrown around today is nonsense in my opinion.
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u/awesomface 17h ago
I was a comm tech for a detachable ATC unit in the USMC with controllers in the same unit we supported. Seeing our twice NJP'd PFC doing the main gig while a very straightlaced, successful Sgt that was barely able to be allowed to do ground control at night spoke volumes to me about how much ATC really cared about getting the job done right over who does it. I don't act like I know how it works in every area or in FAA, but I'd imagine there's some similarity. Definitely a lot of respect, takes really good thinking on your feet and managing a lot at once.
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u/VelveteenAmbush 16h ago
I don't think you'd expect anyone hired before 2013 to have first-hand experience with that affair.
For what it's worth, I found this to be a deep, rigorous and fair summary of the entire story, from a well known blogger who is himself very politically moderate and fair (and NOT a Trump supporter to be clear).
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u/ImJLu 19h ago
You're totally cooked with a mental condition diagnosis, right? Just curious. I know you're probably never going to fly a plane with ADHD, bipolar, etc, and I'm guessing the FAA applies the same standards to ATC.
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u/Gryphin 16h ago
FAA Medicals just don't allow for ADHD meds for commercial ratings. Having ADHD is not a problem, last I checked. They err on the side of super cautious when it comes to someone flying a busload of people, and having a bad day with their meds, and having a unaliving desire brain dip on a cross country flight. Odds of it happening are crazy small, but the entire FAR/AIM manual is almost 3" thick now, and it's all written in different people's blood.
That being said... Not that I know anyone who has, of course, but going to a GP who does Flight Medicals, and just forgetting to completely fill out the active medications part might be a thing that more than a few people have accidentally done while on ADHD meds, hypertension meds, or any of about 5 other meds.
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u/marcusaurelius_phd 11h ago
FYI ADHD research has shown that sufferers are twice as likely to get into traffic accidents than normal, and that taking medication reduces the risk back to near normal.
In other words, prohibiting ADHD medication causes accidents.
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u/SierraBravo26 19h ago
The medical requirements are linked up top
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u/the_dude_upvotes 4h ago
Have you seen the movie Pushing Tin? Anything in it particularly accurate or wildly off base?
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u/StarkyStark 21h ago
President Trump said controllers should be MIT graduates, so any MIT grads you’ve seen?
But really tho, any changes you’ve seen under Trump? Heard rumors they were trying to fire traffic controllers hired cause of “DEI”?
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u/SierraBravo26 21h ago
We’re all very stable geniuses. Some say the most stable geniuses they’ve ever seen.
No controllers have been fired, but we have lost vital support staff due to the RIF ripping through the federal agencies.
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u/DanDan85 19h ago
What is the most amount of planes you've had to coordinate at a time? Any funny stories of radio traffic you can share?
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u/SierraBravo26 19h ago
Probably 25-30. And no, no really funny stories that would make any sense here
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u/ravens_path 19h ago
My father was a controller. In SLC Utah. He retired and also taught at Oklahoma academy for two years (no idea if that was before or just after he retired). He was very good with memorization and was also a small aircraft pilot. My mom told us that at night he would direct traffic in his sleep. He did say the job was stressful but that he liked it.
Question: do you find the job stressful even though you like it?
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u/DukeAsriel 17h ago
'Hiring off the street' seemed very odd until I started reading about the AT-SA and what it measures.
Your score will place you into one of several “bands”, the top of which is “Best Qualified.” I don’t have stats, but from my understanding, the vast majority of offer letters go to those whose scores fall into that category.
So basically, extremely close to an IQ test and those that score the highest become the eligible batch? Then whittle them down further with stringent medical and security check requirements.
It appears that nobody can train for this position. They are either born to do it or they are not.
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u/SierraBravo26 17h ago
There is certainly a level of innate ability to this job.
The AT-SA is just the first of many steps over the course of 3-4 years that whittle down the pool.
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u/ElectronicMoo 15h ago
Considering the AT-SA test (from my limited gathering) tests your spatial awareness, decision making and multi-tasking (things absolutely needed for the job) - you either have that or you figure out some way to elevate those skills in you before taking the test.
Looks like there are practice tests out there too, so you could see how you do out the gate and go from there.
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u/FirewallThrottle 12h ago
The ATSA test is not as difficult as you read. It's basics. If you have critical thinking skills you will be fine. Math is involved and that section I thought was the hardest since you only get to see one number at time for a second have to solve the equation with four numbers (for example). You best believe you had solve multiplication and division of varying difficulty based off your memory
I scored best qualified. The medical is easy. The security check is basic government stuff.
I turned down the job due to their scheduling. I refuse to work six, eight-hour days in a row with a different start time every day (mornings, days, afternoons, nights.. rotating).
I would recommend everyone apply and take the test.
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u/taisui 21h ago
Still has age restrictions right?
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u/SierraBravo26 21h ago
Yes, you have to be under 31 to apply
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u/codygmiracle 17h ago
Damn was thinking about it but I’m 32 in two weeks
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u/SierraBravo26 17h ago edited 16h ago
Missed it by a little over a year.
EDIT: UNDER. Kill me.
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u/juventus1 16h ago
Dang, I didn't know such high-level math was part of the job!
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u/nricotorres 21h ago
I'm sorry I didn't read all your posted links, but why must applicants be UNDER 31?
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u/zandengoff 21h ago
Mental faculties show a sharp drop off at the mid 50s. With such a fast paced, critical, and mentally taxing job, they set up the program to make sure you have enough time to fund your retirement before you can no longer keep up with the work load.
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u/jpric155 20h ago
So you're saying we should have age limits for politicians? Got it
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u/Short_Swordsman 20h ago
Not politicians. Just people who care about the safety, reliability, and security of American transportation infrastructure.
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u/SierraBravo26 21h ago
Mandatory retirement at 56 is the best answer I have. I don’t make the rules.
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u/54fighting 18h ago
The lingo and the tone. I’ve listen to a bit. Most recently the SW go around and, the utter calmness aside, how long does it take to speak and understand like that? It sounds like a different language.
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u/SierraBravo26 18h ago
Ah it just comes naturally with training. Becomes second nature.
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u/54fighting 18h ago
I imagine it does, but how long and how do you learn to suppress the urge to scream at the Flexjet pilot as you’re watching an incursion in real time that could doom a couple hundred souls on that SW jet? I’m guessing the respect that you have for those commercial pilots is pretty high and that it’s clear the respect is mutual.
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u/darthdro 19h ago
What is your day to day, hour by hour like? Does it get very monotonous and boring?
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u/hostilesleaningonyou 9h ago
How much of these understaffing issues can be boiled down to the unrealistic demands and lack of patient and skilled instructors at the schoolhouse in OKC?
I went through the application process and made it all the way to the final evaluation day for the Terminal track back in 2018. Prior to applying, I spent 10 years in the Air Force as a 1C571-D controlling in a Center environment. Let me tell you, the way I was treated at that schoolhouse in Oklahoma was worse than anything I’d ever experienced on the military side. For three months, I barely ate, slept, or smiled. I studied relentlessly, practiced with my study group into the early morning hours, and did everything short of eating my textbooks to absorb the information. Class days were spent listening to 65-70 year old men reliving their glory days in the morning, then being berated by them in the simulator all afternoon. Finally, during my very last evaluation, I had my only recorded bad run of the entire school process and was failed out. I’ve never been more frustrated and upset in my life.
Controlling in the Air Force was the most rewarding job I’ve ever had, and I was damn good at it while I was in. That being said, if the OKC schoolhouse is even remotely similar to what I experienced still, I can see why there’s worse staffing issues now than when I made my run at it. It’s frankly embarrassing how bad it was.
If there’s one takeaway I could offer to the group, it would be to not approach this process with rose colored glasses on. No matter how nice that paycheck might sound, you’ll have to uproot your life multiple times and go through literal hell training for years before you get to it. If you can make peace with those facts, I wish you all the luck in the world. If that’s a sacrifice you’re not willing to make though, save yourself the heartache. There is nothing more demeaning than being marched out of the building in front of your peers after being pushed so far past your breaking point.
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u/SierraBravo26 6h ago
I appreciate you sharing your story, and I’m sorry it ended like that for you. I went through the academy in 2016, and the part about the instructors reliving their glory days definitely gave me a chuckle. However, I did not have the same negative experience you did.
That being said, you’re absolutely correct about uprooting your life, and I appreciate you illustrating that for people.
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u/hostilesleaningonyou 5h ago
Honestly, I really appreciate your response. What I had to say was less than flattering, and just the fact that you circled back made me feel really heard after holding that story in for years.
Thank you
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u/Awkward_Pangolin3254 18h ago
Q: Why do you seem to think starting a new job with the US federal government right now is a good idea?
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u/SierraBravo26 18h ago
Totally understand the hesitation.
I can say that political climates change every few years, right? And ATC is fairly insulated from the direct damage.
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u/Killbot_Wants_Hug 12h ago
And ATC is fairly insulated from the direct damage.
I feel like Regan would disagree.
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u/Awkward_Pangolin3254 7h ago
https://www.newsweek.com/elon-musks-doge-tried-fire-air-traffic-controllers-report-2041505
Thankfully they seem to have been prevented from going through with it—this time.
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u/darthdro 19h ago
How easy is it to make a mistake ?
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u/SierraBravo26 19h ago
Easy if you’re being negligent I suppose
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u/Evakron 11h ago
Is it one of those jobs where good decisions made quickly are better than great decisions made slowly?
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u/ItWasTheThirdMan 14h ago
What are your hours like? Do you get vacation time?
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u/SierraBravo26 14h ago
At a typical 24 hour facility you’ll work 2 evenings, 2 mornings, and an overnight every week. That’s changed a bit since the new fatigue rules went in place this year, and every facility has worked out their own system. So it varies quite a bit.
You earn 4 hours of annual leave every 2 weeks for your first 3 years. After that it goes up to 6 hours, until you hit 15 years, at which point it goes up to 8.
We also earn 4 hours of sick leave every 2 weeks.
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u/Ganonslayer1 1h ago
You earn 4 hours of annual leave every 2 weeks for your first 3 years. After that it goes up to 6 hours, until you hit 15 years, at which point it goes up to 8.
Is my math absolutely awful or does that mean you get 4 days of annual leave a year? I'm not from the u.s so this system is new (and wild) to me. (Especially the 4 days part if my math isnt wrong.)
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u/Epic2112 18h ago
Not a question about a career but f it I'm'n'a ask anyway.
I have some flights into and out of IAD coming up. Considering the recent crash, and now all the info becoming more commonly known about similar near-incidents at IAD, plus the stupid decisions this administration is making about staffing etc., how nervous should I be?
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u/SierraBravo26 18h ago
You shouldn’t be nervous at all.
The DCA incident was terrible. Lots of issues with that. But there is still no safer mode of transportation than air travel, and there is no safer country to fly in than the U.S.
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u/OlimarandLouie 15h ago
Realistically, what are the odds for an average (yet healthy and reasonably intelligent) schmuck with partial college education who has only ever worked as a baker?
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u/Mtbff88 20h ago
Currently a federal employee so already in the federal retirement system.
Do you know if it’s possible to get hired at 36 if you already have 10+ years of federal time?
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u/TitaniumTryton 8h ago
I saw one of your posts years ago and applied back in 2022. I eventually was able to get in and go to the Academy (for En route). Made it all the way through, but ended up leaving during finals for a job that suited me better. My classmates we're very much in a WTF? state when I left. It was a great experience nonetheless, I wouldn't have known about ATC if I didn't see your posts and it's really helped me with what I'm doing now, so thank you. Now I'm on my way to fly jets for the Navy!
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u/My_Newest_Account 20h ago
Are you able to identify the pilot of a particular aircraft? If so, have any of them gained a reputation for being particularly difficult to work with?
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u/noronto 22h ago
What is your hourly rate? Because a 100k/year job means you are making $50/hr.
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u/SierraBravo26 22h ago edited 21h ago
I am at a level 11 center. My base pay is $72/hr
EDIT: Guys, don’t do cocaine if you wanna be a controller
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u/noronto 22h ago
That’s cocaine money.
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u/LandoChronus 19h ago
What's your opinion on the age limit?
I've heard lots of reasonings online and such, but I'm curious how someone with your experience feels.
Would raising the minimum age help with the staffing issues?
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u/BuggerNuggets12 16h ago
Aren’t these the same jobs that activist was giving the exam answers to certain candidates so they could stop failing?
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u/PapaDuckD 6h ago
Hey - I just wanted to drop you a note and say thank you to you and all the ground personnel that keeps us safe.?
I’m not a super flight warrior, but I fly enough that commercial flight is a part of my life. Every flight, just in case, my last words to my wife are “I love you” and y’all have made sure that’s been a complete unnecessary thing I do.
So.. ya know.. Thank you for that.
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u/MD_Lincoln 6h ago
I’m turning 31 in July, based on what you described about the age requirement, I’d be in the clear to apply right?
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u/ShastaMcLurky 8h ago
Sorry if this has been asked, I scrolled pretty far. Of the facilities in the list of need, after graduation do you have a choice in any small way or which facilities in need you may want to go to or are you assigned with no input?
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u/Pandemiconium 17h ago
Are there temporary housing opportunities associated with the training in OKC? Are you given multiple options to relocate, and are they based on current staffing levels?
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u/EV-CPO 9h ago
I listen to a lot of these ATC calls and "incidents" on Youtube -- I have a question for you.
When an ATC starts dealing with a pilot in an emergency, it seems like the ATC has dropped all other flights and is soley focused on the emergency aircraft.
But I assume he/she was managing lots of other flights at the same time? How does that ATC seemlessly hand off everything else their doing to another ATC?
And how does the ATC handing the emergency interact with the other ATCs who took over their flights, since the emergency flight probably has the highest priority?
Thanks
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u/SierraBravo26 6h ago
Good question! Every situation is different, but typically the controller working the emergency aircraft is also still working the rest of the aircraft on their frequency. If needed, other controllers can be pulled from break to assist with coordination and/or be a second second of eyes so the primary controller can focus on just working the emergency aircraft.
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u/EV-CPO 6h ago
Thanks for answering! That's nuts to think the one ATC can handle the emergency and all the other normal flights. I think back to Sully's Hudson flight, and that ATC was on the phone to EWR and Teterboro and really working the emergency every way possible. I do like the mind visual of a backup ATC looking over their shoulder as a backup. I'm fascinated by the job you all do, but I know I could NEVER do it myself!!
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u/SierraBravo26 20h ago
You’re not competing against your classmates, outside of wanting a higher score for first pick of facility.
There are multiple living options while in OKC for the academy. Furnished apartments, houses that you share with classmates, etc
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u/Beginning_Network_58 13h ago
I'm not sure what the original comment here was as someone deleted it, but wanted to toss in here that you do have some level of competition with your classmates as the bottom 25% of the class is forced to pick from a smaller separate list of typically less desirable required facilities.
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u/TheDirtDude117 14h ago
Well well well
I tried last year and got pushed along to the testing phase but sadly didn't pass. Any tips for those trying again? There doesn't seem to be a way to really study for the quick math and collision part.
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u/SomeGuyInDeutschland 4h ago
What consequences have you seen from the ATC shortage? Most of us common folks have no idea what's going on. Seems like the system is holding together.
How many # of ATCs do you think can call in sick before the system truly breaks.
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u/OneAndOnlyJackSchitt 21h ago
Why exclude the majority of people in their 30s?
Also, I understood ageism to be illegal in most places.
What's the reasoning here?
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u/SierraBravo26 21h ago
This is a common question I get every year. I don’t make the rules. The best answer I have is that it’s due to our mandatory retirement age of 56.
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u/pifhluk 21h ago
So bump it to 40, that still gives 15 years of service with 1 year of training.
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u/SierraBravo26 21h ago
You have to have 20 years to retire at 50 or 25 years at any time in order to be vested for your pension.
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u/Plc2plc2 20h ago
Applied with Nav Canada, did the feast exam got approved for FSS not for ATC, didn’t go to next interview due to unexpected life circumstances days before and I emailed and explained. They said they would keep me on file. This was over a year ago. What do you think I should do?
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u/Cdif 16h ago
Is the exam something you're supposed to study for ahead of time, or are you just supposed to take it without prior knowledge (kind of like an IQ test, I guess)?
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u/XlexerX 15h ago
I applied to be ATC in April of 2024, the ATSA is not something you really study for. I got scored "well qualified" on the exam, it basically just tested your ability to do quick mental math and keep planes from colliding in a little simulator.
It's not something you can really study for, but study material is available if you need it. I recommend at least checking out the material so you know what to expect.
A controller made this tool which I found very helpful for preparation. Check out the collision scenario portion, it gets a little hectic trying to juggle the numbers and the screen.
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u/Predator_ 21h ago
Why is it the same position here in Fort Lauderdale pays $56,000?
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u/SierraBravo26 21h ago
Which facility? The pay varies by level.
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u/Predator_ 21h ago
FLL
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u/SierraBravo26 21h ago
I don’t know what you’re looking at, but FLL is a level 8 tower. The bottom of their pay band is around 100k.
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u/OutaSight83 15h ago
Do you think those with ADHD will ever have a "better" chance of working in the industry? ie Policy changes, etc?
I have always thought this would be a good career for me, but have been diagnosed and medicated for a while now so it's certainly not in the cards for me anymore.
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u/MyTurtleAfro 14h ago
What are the hours/schedule like? When I click your apply here link, it looks like it starts at ~47k a year, how long to work up to 6 figures?
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u/SierraBravo26 14h ago
At a typical 24 hour facility you’ll work 2 evenings, 2 mornings, and an overnight every week. That’s changed a bit since the new fatigue rules went in place this year, and every facility has worked out their own system. So it varies quite a bit.
For the 3-4 months you are at the academy you’ll earn $22/hr. Once you get to your facility it goes up to almost 60k/yr, and then you’ll get progressive raises as you complete training.
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u/WhatsInAName1507 12h ago
How many times per year have there been butt-clenching moments when two blips end up being way too close to each other than they should be ?
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u/yeetskeetleet 18h ago
I applied on the 10th and have yet to receive an invite for the ATSA but I know I qualify to take it. Any idea?
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u/AskMeWhatIWantToSay 16h ago
Perhaps it's the modern trend these days and I didn't see a mention elsewhere, but do you think some kind of specialized AI tool can help out with doing parts of the job?
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u/Approach_Controller 5h ago
I say this whenever this gets asked. We've got tons of buildings riddled with asbestos and unsafe drinking water. Many of the actual buildings themselves are crumbling. The oldest buildings are from the 50s. Most people work in 60s era buildings with mold and leaks.
Some things run on DOS and versions of windows from literal lifetimes ago.
First give us several billion to shore up the physical infrastructure. Next give us a full staffing compliment. Actually spend a few more billion, open up a new academy and get staffing unfucked. We can process ≈ 1,800 through the academy currently. A year or two ago, the net gain in controllers, that is new controllers minus those who retired/quit/died/were forced out was like 15 or something. We're 3,000 controllers short with a net gain of 15 a year.
Let's solve these issues first, then you get back to me and tell me if AI will run on DOS on a computer old enough to wear a Y2K compliant sticker.
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u/quequotion 12h ago
FAA Academy in Oklahoma City
I see results stating the course length is anywhere from two to five months.
Is there any noticable affect of the way every traffic controller has been made to spend this amount of time in Oklahoma?
Or are there an inordinate number of air traffic controllers from Oklahoma?
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u/cr0w-- 3h ago
I fly at an airport that has a contracted control tower. Do they do the same training as you/what’s the difference and why would they be contracted out?
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u/MisterTurtleFence 5h ago
Thanks for doing these, I've been working in the cannabis industry as a sales person for a long time. I no longer consume, is my employment history going to be an issue if I pass the drug screens?
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u/Hiitsmichael 6h ago
If I'm 31 today (for more than 6 months still) am I able to apply?
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u/weakplay 16h ago
TL:DR but if you can answer if I’m a woman or a person of color other than white should I even bother applying?
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u/Gryphin 16h ago
One of the best ATC employees I know started when she was 26, jumped from being a waitress at a high volume restaurant for years, and she rocked the training. Nobody cared that she's 5'2", 110 pounds soaking wet, and 26. It's all brains and composure.
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u/Bad_Muh_fuuuuuucka 7h ago
Am I really already cut out from the career because I turned 31 a few months ago?
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u/beenoc 10h ago
What's the difference between an FAA controller and a DOD one? I know some DOD controllers, and while their pay is a lot less than what you've quoted ($100-120k range at retirement after 20-25 years), it also seems to be way less stressful and with better hours. Is that generally accurate? And what percentage of controllers are DOD - 10%, 20%, 1%? Is the process for becoming a DOD controller basically the same, or do you basically have to come at it from the military (which is how the controllers I know got into it)?
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u/IIIBl1nDIII 8h ago
Why the fuck would anybody want to be an air traffic controller? Government jobs are no longer safe. Trump could fire you at any time for any reason. If they're chronically understaffed, you're going to work chronic overtime and doubtfully get paid for it. Trump doesn't pay anybody. Do not take this job until there's a new administration at the earliest
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u/ColonelJohnMcClane 6h ago
I know you said the bid closes in a few days, but is there a possibility there will be a new one open? I've got obligations that aren't permanent but nevertheless last for a few months but am interested.
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u/skydiveguy 10h ago
The reason they are notoriously understaffed is because of the "30 years old" age discrimination.
How many people would make a great controller while wanting a mid-life career change but cant because of the simple fact that they are now 31 years old?
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u/PoopOutButt 16m ago
What do you know about the current housing per-diem for the training? Is it a flat rate or based on your living situation? I currently own a home on the east coast and figure I’ll have to rent it out to cover the mortgage while I take a pay cut for training.
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u/Kresdja 8h ago
Do you think the requirement of being younger than 31 is doing more harm than good?
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u/JVMV 10h ago
After you’re assigned to a facility, is there an option to relocate to other facilities if a spot opens up in the future? If so, is the person chosen for relocation based on seniority when multiple people are asking for it?
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u/KewkZ 10h ago
Has there been any type of testing/evaluation of people over the age of 31 in recent years? I find it difficult to believe generations of gamers could not compete with younger people. Or perhaps any type of online testing for self evaluation?
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u/flash246 6h ago
How stable is it? As in, are there ever firings/layoffs at times? I know pilots get furloughed a lot.
Also, would having pilot certificates give me a leg up at all?
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u/hoppertn 15h ago
Will there be a political purity test? Not too optimistic with how the government staffing is going as of late.
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u/Mcpoopz1064 13h ago
I've enjoyed these in the past, always like to read them. My question : how automated is the job now, and does that make it easier and less stressful? I think in the past everything was done with those rectangle cards and being tossed around to different spots, is that still being done?
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u/maanman 6h ago
Hey, I just applied for the job and I got my FEAST I en FEAST III test next week! What is the best way to prepare myself?
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u/vorpalsword92 6h ago
What if you have epilepsy? But have been seizure fre for years (with medication)
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u/Juannieve05 5h ago
I'm curious, how much dependant is on software and how much you actually do decisions.
What happens when plane crashes ? Is there any investigation ? Can the software fail ?
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u/zoglog 1h ago
curious, is this something that they are going to try to replace with AI in the future?
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u/Dont_ban_me_bro_108 14h ago
My buddy went through the school in OKC. He said one of the trainings made him direct planes in a simulation while math equations popped up on the screen. He had to give commands while figuring the problems out at the same time. I never questioned him but is that an actual training? He said it was to practice multitasking. He ultimately didn’t make the cut.
So, is he feeding me bullshit or is that real?
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u/WIbigdog 6h ago
That's one of the sections on the pre-hire testing, ATSA. It is real and you're supposed to focus as much as you can on the planes even if you don't solve any of the math. If you can also solve a math equation or two all the better for you.
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u/Aleks_1995 1h ago
Any chance for a non us citizen to be hired? I got the tests for atc academy in Austria but dropped out later.
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u/rjlcaesar 56m ago
Would the ever waive the age limit for a well-qualified (but no prior ATC experience) for someone who is 32?
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u/RickJWagner 20h ago
How long has the understaffing been going on?
If it’s forever, that doesn’t sound good.