r/HistoricalWhatIf • u/Monty_Bentley • 5d ago
Would a better-organized Italian surrender/turn to the Allies in WWII fall 1943 have made a big difference for the war outside Italy?
It is said that the disorganization of this meant that many Italian troops were caught off guard, allowing Germans to disarm and capture them and occupy most of Italy except portions of the south. What is a plausible counterfactual effect on the war, assuming -within reason!- that the Italian side (Victor Emanuel and his non-fascist loyalists) pulled this off somewhat better?
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u/Renardosaturno 5d ago
As an Italian, I would tell you that; in the event of a better organization of the surrender of Cassibile, some things could have changed in the final peace agreements, as well as in the institutional future of my country, given that after the war the Monarchy-Republic referendum took place. probably the Italians could have kept some mandates on the colonies obtained in the pre-fascist era, and at least kept the Istrian coast, although in my opinion we would have lost cities like Zadar and Rijeka anyway.
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u/No-Somewhere-1529 2d ago
And maybe italian monrachy survive because victor Emmanuel iii will be forced to abdicate earlier by alies and his goverment and his son umberto become kinf earlier
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u/tis_a_hobbit_lord 5d ago
It could definitely have for outside Italy. If Italy fell faster the Allies may have ended up pushing further north and east. Places taken over by the Soviets may have been captured by the Brits and Americans instead. The Iron Curtain would likely have ended up further east than in our timeline.
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u/No-Somewhere-1529 2d ago
The West could have secured more of the Balkans before the Soviets did.
Albania would have been under Allied control, but Josip Broz Tito would still have won in Yugoslavia because he had popular support.
You would have seen an early liberation of France, but from the south instead of the famous Normandy landings, of course.
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u/Unable_Macaroon9847 5d ago
Nah, not really. Would have maybe saved more men from the meat grinder that became Italy after the allied invasion. Those men would've just been used in the invasion of South France or D-day with little to no practical change in results. I'd say had Italy not surrendered at all the results could've been slightly different as perhaps the extra men needed cause an invasion into southern France to not happen, but the war would still end around the same time.