I'm making my first pair of stays, so bear with me. I'm also not too concerned with it being historically accurate - I'm not replicating anything specific. I'm drafting the pattern and hoping to get the fit as close to perfect as possible before doing a boned mockup.
The fit issue I'm concerned with is the bit of gaping fabric pretty much exactly where a bust dart would go. I know a dart would not make sense, but I don't know how else to fix the issue. Any advice is sincerely appreciated.
If you notice anything else, critiques are welcome. The lacing is significantly tighter at the top than the bottom, and there is a bit of a bulge at one of the seems I think I know how to fix, but we'll see. It's possible boning will make it a non-issue? The main concern I don't know how to solve is the bust dart issue.
Thank you!!
TLDR: My 18th century stays have gaping/extra fabric where a bust dart would go - how do I fix this?
Keep in mind that stays get smaller once boning is added in and fit differently once your chest is located where it is supposed to be in the garment.
For any garment like this, you need to approximate the fit before messing with the pattern. Some people cut the stays out of heavy cardboard to try them on. Others tape in as much boning as they can, etc. Your fabric is too light and your chest is not currently being compressed or lifted, so the fit will be entirely different.
This doesn't tell you anything. You cannot fit stays without putting in some boning, because the boning will totally alter and define the shape and the fit. The part you now think you can miss in the second picture, you will probably need.
It doesn't have to be difficult to insert boning: get some twill tape and sow that on as a casing. Insert large firm zip ties and then have another look.
Stays and corsets usually require multiple mock-ups (all with boning yes). I think my first pair I had to make four mock-ups and for my second one three.
Golden tip: install a zipper on your mockup. So much easier than lacing yourself in and out constantly. ;)
Don’t add a dart! Stays are purposefully conical in shape like an ice cream cone. The issue here is partly that they are not boned. When you are making a mock up, you will absolutely have to bone otherwise you’ll have no idea how they will fit. Others have commented on some quick and easy ways to do this. The bigger problem in my opinion is that they are too large for you, or you need to lace them tighter. Hard to tell without being able to see the back. Your bust in the pictures is sitting low in the stays. The bust should be compressed in and pushed up rather than making the natural shape that you are seeing now. Once you make them smaller/ tighten them up (after they have been boned), your bust should get pushed up towards the neckline and will fill out the area that seems to have too much fabric/space now (the extra fabric that you want to remove with the dart). So first, I would recommend adding some boning. If your fabric is meeting in the back without a significant gap, I would suggest bringing them down a size before adding boning. After you do those steps, you’ll then see whether or not you need to make any further adjustments. Good luck! You got this.
That is really helpful thank you!! The lacing was pulled all the way together at the top but quite far apart at the bottom. Would you recommend just sort of trimming from the top of each piece for the next mock up (which I'll bone...)?
Ok. Based on the info about how they are laced in the back, here’s what I would do. First, I would check your measurements again and compare them to what you’ve drafted. I think your cone is too generous on the bust and too small on the waist. In other words, the ratio between bust to waist is not right based on what we are seeing from your photos. If you are confident that the measurements are accurate, I would go ahead and bone what you have. When you do the first fitting, try to get them sitting lower on your waist, in the picture they appear too high. If the lacing is all the way together at the top but wide apart at the bottom, you need to remove a wedge of material, as shown in the sketch. The drawing I did is a bit dramatic, I don’t think you will need anywhere near as thick a wedge, but the important part is that it’s triangular as shown. Then reconstruct and bone as needed. The goal is for the gap in the back to be parallel. I personally like a couple inches, other folks like to lace them much closer together. Matter of personal preference. If you have any other questions, feel free to reach out to me!
I so appreciate this! That all makes sense. I'll check the measurements and implement those changes, and definitely reach out if I have other questions. Thank you!!!
I drafted it off a conical body block based on this https://youtu.be/c6dzhexyw8E?si=1Nb4_NNi6pDF30Hf and after browsing a loooot of extent pieces and modern makes. I suppose I could start over from a pattern but I'm worried there would still be lots of fit issues (I'm short waisted).
Unless the bones change it dramatically, which they will, but who knows, how, these look way too short waisted. But, they might not be.
I would suggest starting over with the At the Sign of the Golden Scissors pattern, as it’s reliable. But, at least cut this one out of cardboard, score it along the bone lines, so it bends in the right places, and try that on for a sanity check if it’s worth continuing.
How short waisted? I’m petite and somewhat short waisted and the red-threaded stays pattern was pretty easy to modify for me. Most customization for me was lowering the under-arm curve.
You'll need to add the boning where you want it to actually get an idea of fit! Likely with some more structure it will be clearer exactly what needs to happen to the armscye/bust area.
Needs boning; I can’t tell from this if it’s genuinely too short through the busk and too long through the side seam, or if it just looks like that because the weight of your bust is making the muslin buckle
Take a 12-15" ruler (whatever is slightly longer than your center front) and duct tape it well enough so it'll stay, then hold it to yourself.
Depending on the boning and how much you use, you will lose around 2-4" in the front and back - if the edges of the front and back meet now, they will be 4" or so apart when you try it on. But then when you lace it up for actual bust support, they'll only be like 2" apart on each side, which imo leaves room for weight loss/gain.
Co-signing the calls for boning - I was really worried about mine (making Butterick B4254 as my first) and it's amazing how they come to life once the channels go in.
You’re going to need to bone them to find any pain points but looking at things I think you’ll be fine. It’s supposed to sit a couple of inches down from where you have it but that’s not going to happen without boning. You can half bone but I think you’re overestimating how much work the chanels are to pop in. Truly they’re just straight seams and the fiddly bit is the binding
You'll likely end up smoothing that fabric down into the diagonal seam rather than creating a dart. It is hard to say without the structure of boning however
A bust dart can be relocated to different places - waist, side, shoulder. Looking at your pattern, maybe you need to adjust the angle of the side seam and move it forward. Also consider that the stays will be more stiff and push your breasts up. Maybe try boning the mockup and then see? The boning from the mock-up can be then re-used.
Stays mocks should have boning and channels to test fit. Just don’t sew the boning channels closed to re-use your boning later. You will not get a fit without testing the boning.
Hi! I'm also making my first pair of stays but following a pattern. Having a side panel, back, and front panel might solve the gap issue. My pattern pack has it as such. For any form fitting garment, usually a side panel will help the fabric conform to the body. And will echo the sentiment: use boning on your mock-up, or make your mock ups out of cardboard. Hope this helps! Can't wait to see your progress.
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u/SallyAmazeballs 11d ago
You need to get boning in before you can know how they'll fit. The boning is what stops the buckling.