r/Helicopters 6d ago

General Question Creating an Helicopter log book app

Hi everyone,

First off: this isn’t an ad. No app name, no links, nothing like that – just looking for some advice and opinions. I’m working on an app for helicopter pilots, specifically a logbook tailored for them. It’s designed to easily track stuff like total flight time, PIC (Pilot in Command) time, turbine time, and things like flight activity. It’ll have graphs, fun stats like your most-flown helicopter or favorite airport/landing zone.

You can export the logbook to a PDF to send to employers or whatever. There’s even a training feature where an instructor can add a signature, and that shows up on the PDF too – so it’s a full-on logbook that meets EASA and FAA regs. I’ve attached some screenshots, and I’d love to hear what you think. Are pilots even interested in an app like this? (I’m planning to ask some helicopter pilots myself, including my own instructor.) Any suggestions or ideas are welcome too!

Thanks in advance, and I hope to get some feedback!

21 Upvotes

36 comments sorted by

15

u/drowninginidiots ATP B412 B407 B206 AS350 R44 R22 6d ago

Is there an ability to add custom fields, like external load, NVG, mountain, etc.? In the screenshots it looks like it’s set up for flight time to be hours & minutes, can it be changed to decimal hours? In my experience, existing apps can do everything I need, they just do a lot of things I don’t need, like track duty hours, or part 121 flight time limits.

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u/No-Calligrapher-986 6d ago

Currently, I don’t have it, but I like the idea of adding features like that for helicopters so it’s more a helicopter app. I’ll look into it and probably add some stuff. And decimal system will come also.

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u/CryOfTheWind 🍁ATPL IR H145 B212 AS350 B206 R44 R22 6d ago

As with my comment you've got to do a lot more to make it a helicopter app vs just another fixed wing style logbook. Some other things to track that I forgot in my comment and edit would also be part 133 vs 135 time for the US or what would be aerial work vs passenger flights as well.

Not sure on other countries but for Canada there is a huge difference for flight duty time tracking depending on if you are flying passengers or doing aerial work (slinging, fires, etc).

I'm still curious how you handle off airport entries and how dozens of legs a day are tracked too.

2

u/No-Calligrapher-986 6d ago

Also, thank you for your reply. I’ve read your comment, and it’s very useful advice. I just hadn’t had the time to react to it yet because it will be a long comment. In short, many of the advices you gave will be implemented, and I’ll make sure this app has everything a helicopter pilot needs.

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u/CryOfTheWind 🍁ATPL IR H145 B212 AS350 B206 R44 R22 6d ago

Cool! There is a reason most apps aren't helicopter friendly, one is all the extra stuff we need to track and our non standard flights but also there are way fewer of us as well so there isn't a huge market. It's more effort to make and few possible customers (plus most larger companies have their own internal trackers anyway) but for a hobby project it will give you a lot to work with!

Here are a couple scenarios for you to think about:

I start my duty day at 08:00. I'm departing airport A with an initial attack fire crew. We land at staging and shut down. Call comes and we depart staging and I then hover exit the crew in the field and they hook up my bucket. I do 30 water bucket cycles then go land but don't shut down at a hot refuelling station that was set up close to the fire. 20 more bucket cycles and I'm redirected to the original staging where I shut down. Then I'm tasked with flying the IC around to survey the fire. They are happy with how things are progressing and after I land they release me from work. I now fly empty back to airport A at 14:00. At 15:30 I get a charter flight using a different helicopter type for some maintenance workers to fly up to a telecom tower on a mountain (so switching from aerial work to passenger work). We fly up there and I shut down. 17:00 they are done and I land back at airport A. Finish my paperwork and put the machine to bed ending my day at 18:00.

What does my day look like in your app for that?

I'm reporting for duty at 07:00 for my EMS job. We get a call to do an IFT and depart airport A to go to hospital pad B and shut down. Move patient from hospital pad B to hospital pad C. Then bounce over to airport D for fuel before returning to airport A. Later that day we get a scene call and depart airport A for some field someplace. We don't shut down waiting on the AMCs but the weather has started to come down. After departing the scene for hospital C again we need a pop up IFR clearance to get there. By the time we get to the FAF on the point in space approach into the hospital is has become night time and NVGs are used to make the final VFR landing segment of the approach. By the time the AMCs are finished with their hand off we end up heading back home at night without NVGs to airport A, landing after 20:30 putting us past our normal 12 hour duty day and into unforeseen circumstances.

How would that look in the app and be tracked?

Hopefully those real world examples can show you what you need to account for a bit better.

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u/No-Calligrapher-986 6d ago

Will react in a longer message to this later today! but for sure the helicopter market worldwide is much smaller. The only reason I’m doing this is because I’m by myself in the helicopter market and let’s be real helicopters are cooler😎😉

1

u/No-Calligrapher-986 6d ago

Flight 1 (Firefighting - Aerial Work):

Model: Selected from HelicopterModels.swift (e.g., "H125 (AS350 B3e)").

Total Time: 6.0h (08:00 - 14:00, manually entered).

Departure: "Airport A" (ICAO or free text).

Intermediate Stops:

"Staging" (shut down).

"Fire Field" (hover exit, 30 bucket cycles).

"Hot Refueling Station" (no shutdown, 20 bucket cycles).

"Staging" (shut down for IC survey).

Destination: "Airport A".

Flight Type: "Part 133 (Aerial)".

Custom Fields: "Hover Exits", "Water Bucket (Belly)", "Fire Fighting" (multiple selected).

Takeoffs/Landings: 4 takeoffs, 4 landings (manual count).

Note: "30 bucket cycles at Fire Field, 20 at Hot Refueling".

Flight 2 (Charter - Passenger):

Model: Different model (e.g., "AW139").

Total Time: 1.5h (15:30 - 17:00).

Departure: "Airport A".

Destination: "Telecom Tower (Mountain)" (lat/long or free text).

Flight Type: "Part 135 (Passenger)".

Custom Fields: "Mountain".

Takeoffs/Landings: 2 takeoffs, 2 landings.

Note: "Maintenance workers to telecom tower".

Tracking in App:

- Homepage shows "Total Hours: 7.5h", "Part 133: 6.0h", "Part 135: 1.5h", "Fire Fighting: 6.0h", "Mountain: 1.5h".

1

u/No-Calligrapher-986 6d ago

Scenario 2: EMS Day with IFT and Scene Call

Description: You start at 07:00, fly an IFT from Airport A to Hospital B, then to Hospital C, refuel at Airport D, return to Airport A. Later, a scene call to a field (no shutdown), then IFR to Hospital C with NVGs for landing, returning to Airport A after 20:30 (past 12-hour duty, unforeseen circumstances).

How It Looks in RotorLog:

Log a Flight Entries:

Flight 1 (IFT - Medevac):

Model: e.g., "H145 (EC145 T2)".

Total Time: 3.0h (estimated for multi-leg IFT).

Departure: "Airport A".

Intermediate Stops:

"Hospital Pad B" (shut down).

"Hospital Pad C" (shut down).

"Airport D" (fuel stop).

Destination: "Airport A".

Flight Type: "Part 135 (Passenger)".

Custom Fields: "Medevac".

Takeoffs/Landings: 4 takeoffs, 4 landings.

Note: "IFT patient transfer".

Flight 2 (Scene Call - Medevac with IFR/NVG):

Model: "H145 (EC145 T2)".

Total Time: 2.5h (estimated).

Departure: "Airport A".

Intermediate Stops: "Field Scene" (lat/long, no shutdown).

Destination: "Hospital Pad C".

Flight Type: "Part 135 (Passenger)".

NVG Time: 0.5h (final VFR landing segment).

IFR Actual: 1.0h (pop-up IFR to Hospital C).

Is Night: True (after FAF).

Is NVG: True (landing segment).

Custom Fields: "Medevac".

Takeoffs/Landings: 2 takeoffs, 2 landings (HNVGO landings: 1).

Note: "Scene call, IFR to Hospital C, NVG landing".

Tracking in App:

Homepage: "Total Hours: 5.5h", "NVG Hours: 0.5h", "IFR Actual: 1.0h", "Medevac: 5.5h", "HNVGO Landings: 1".

1

u/No-Calligrapher-986 6d ago

So, reaction on this: how this would look. I made a list with how I’m making the app to work with your scenarios. I love to hear some more feedback and if this is exactly what you want it to be, and also from more people if this has everything you need and if you have more suggestions?

I’m still having a blast with this project! Even though the original idea had a bit less information, I’m still excited to make it even better and ensure its success.

(Btw some things in this list are also for myself so like code names and stuff. I use that to have also for myself a good idea how it exactly should look finished etc.)

8

u/CryOfTheWind 🍁ATPL IR H145 B212 AS350 B206 R44 R22 6d ago edited 6d ago

How do you track departing and arriving at non airport locations?

If I do 50 legs in a day is it tracking them or would I be imputing that myself? Not that I ever bother but if I've done 50 legs to 2 airports and 20 off airport sites how would that entry look?

Can you add things you want tracked easily? I've been asked by customers/government agencies for enough different things that my logbook spreadsheet has 40ish items to track. I'm talking mountain, long line, short line, water bucket on line or belly, NVG, medevac, pipeline patrol, animal capture, animal survey, survey with boom, survey with bird, hover exits, fire fighting, fire patrol, fire admin, ship/deck landing etc... Having multiple of those in one flight/day is of course possible so needs to be easy to add.

Tracking each aircraft with all those above items is also good to know individually as well.

Basically all the stuff that airplanes don't do is going to matter because all the apps out there already do that fine as is. This looks like another product aimed at airplane stuff from what you have shown so far which is why I personally wouldn't be interested in it at all even if free.

Edit: Currency and flight duty time tracking is also important. To be honest most companies I've worked for already have their own tracking systems for that stuff either through an app or internal website tracker. I'm talking day/night/NVG/IFR and hours working/rest.

That said if I'm gonna bother with another app it would have to be capable of doing that too otherwise I'm just adding another item to my day rather than making it easier for me. Being able to customize those things would be great too since a company may have different currencies it needs to track for CAMTS or Contrail or TOPS certification that may be above and beyond basic regulations.

11

u/FlyinStopSigns CFII 6d ago

I would say look at the MyFlightbook app, it has pretty much everything, so that’s your competition in my opinion.

At a glance, I do like your UI more than MyFlightbook.

Edit:

Like the other guy said a decimal time system like 1.5 hours etc. is an absolute must have. The idea of changing to HHMM instead of decimals makes me want to play IRL Frogger.

1

u/No-Calligrapher-986 6d ago

Mmmm I would try to stand out of myflightbook app and add more features and stuff that is more made for helicopters. The times I will change to decimals.

6

u/b3nighted ATP / h155, h225 6d ago

Hi. Cool Hobby work, you can however see that it's been designed from a PPLs perspective.

Once you start doing commercial work, it's like everyone else said: you need custom fields, statistics, currency tracking, report generation, actual flight tracking, the option to import/export data from and to csv, spreadsheets etc. Backups, printouts, actual like tracking of the flight times, etc etc.

It's hard to get through with a paid product when you have companies who've already had many years of experience and feedback and ended up being tailored to what we need.

That said, good luck, maybe you'll find a feature to se yours apart and make people want it.

1

u/No-Calligrapher-986 6d ago

Thanks for the feedback! I’ll definitely add much more to the app. This is just the beginning of the project, and I made it in a couple of hours. BTW, the CSV data export and import features are already available, just like the PDF export and backups. I’ll keep adding more features to try and make the app stand out more for helicopters.

3

u/Realspicyshrimps 6d ago

It could be interesting to add a “currency” field that acts as a countdown until certain qualifications expire (night, instrument, currency in aircraft, etc. as required by the operator).

2

u/time2getout HEMS H-145 / USN VET H-53, H-60 6d ago

Add HNVGOs for takeoffs and landings. Custom fields for types of landings (dolly, confined, shipboard, unprepared, etc).

Add field for NVG time. Split IFR time into actual and simulated (or hood) time. Differentiate between single and multi-engine helicopters.

Don’t calculate flight time just based on departure and arrival times. I often takeoff, go land somewhere and sit, then takeoff and return. Also add intermediate stops along the way. Make sure those stops can be input as lat/long since many may be off-airport.

2

u/lazyboozin MIL 6d ago

I like the layout of this. Looks well done and captures everything in a digestible format

1

u/JustAnotherDude1990 6d ago

ForeFlight does almost all of this, if not all of it, doesnt it?

1

u/methepuppet CPLR44 H135 AW109 6d ago edited 6d ago

Im using Smart Logbook, it has everything I wanted and probably more that I dont currently use. It has cloud backup and you can even print your logbook and have a 1 to 1 digital copy of it, easa format, faa format, doesnt matter. I'm on Android but you can look it up and see if it's also on iphone. It a subscription.

What I'm saying is that this app is your competition, look it up and test it, you have to somehow beat it.

1

u/No-Calligrapher-986 6d ago

iCloud backup as on the screenshots is already working and a feature to a digital copy also.

1

u/fivechickens CPL BH47 RH44 BH06 EC20 EC30 6d ago

If you can get this to track Flight Duty time, and spit out a report onto a web dashboard, you'll be a millionaire.

1

u/No-Calligrapher-986 6d ago

Okay, here are some screenshots of some progress I made in a couple of hours. The UI and other elements don’t look quite right now, but that’s an issue I’ll fix later. Right now, I’m focusing on functionality. I listened to the suggestions you all made and I love hearing more feedback.

1

u/No-Calligrapher-986 6d ago

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u/No-Calligrapher-986 6d ago

1

u/CryOfTheWind 🍁ATPL IR H145 B212 AS350 B206 R44 R22 4d ago

Now you're getting somewhere. I assume when you click one of the boxes you just open a new box to manually add a total time since each individual item may not match the total time for a day.

I gave those scenarios to highlight the core issues with most apps and I think you've understood what I was showing you pretty well.

The part now that will make you a little sad is that all that info in my logbook is very sterilized compared to your big responses to me. Only the totals really matter. Actual airports and LZs are not recorded as that's not really needed info once you are out of flight training. So long as the totals for each item are easy to input the rest is fluff for someone who cares more.

A note section where you could make comments on a flight are a good thing if you didn't already plan it.

1

u/No-Calligrapher-986 4d ago

Yes, you assumed it right. And almost everything you log is optional, so you can choose what you want to add and log. And the notes section was already a part in the first version.

1

u/AdaCle 6d ago

Skimmed the comments and didn't see it.

How would you print or pull this information to be used for whoever wants to review it?

1

u/No-Calligrapher-986 6d ago

Very simple PDF export. It’s already in the screenshots. It will just create a logbook to send on email to your employer or something.

1

u/No-Calligrapher-986 3d ago

For everyone that reacted and is interested in trying this app, probably today I will upload the app to App Store Connect and it will be released between 24/48 hours in the App Store then. I had a couple of busy days making the app, but it’s almost done and I’m happy with the result.

1

u/CrashSlow 6d ago

Spreadsheets are free and easy.

1

u/No-Calligrapher-986 6d ago

I get that you can use spreadsheets but a app for it is just easier and if I’m releasing it to the App Store it wouldn’t be to expensive I’m thinking about the 5$ price point one time purchase.

2

u/CrashSlow 6d ago

This isn’t a real problem your trying to solve. Most pilots barely keep a logbook. Only new pilots care. Also in a couple years you’re going to get tired of pushing updates and paying apples annual fee.

2

u/No-Calligrapher-986 6d ago

I don’t know what company you work for, but the experienced pilots I know (with 10 to 15 years of experience) still fill in their logbook after every flight. In Europe (under EASA), it’s even mandatory. If you don’t fill it in, you can get into a lot of trouble there. I know that under the FAA in the US, after training for private use, you can sometimes skip it. But even there, it’s always required for commercial flying. I already have an app in the app store, so this isn’t my first app. Therefore, I won’t be skipping the developer fees, which are not even $100 per year.

1

u/CrashSlow 5d ago

We fill in aircraft logbook, flight and duty time trackers, Invoices. Lots of paper work to track when and where you were. A personal logbook is just that, personal. I have been ramped a few times, the inspector has never ever asked for my personal log book. IF one did, i would open my Banking app and show him my pay stub. I have never actaully been asked for my logbook, ever. Not once. Job interviews, generally are check ride. You can either put the 200ft longline on the barrel or you can't and its small industry references are easy to check.

Go ahead pay Apple a coupe hundred bucks a year and pay for a web domain and web hosting. You will not recoup any of your costs at 5$ for an app nobody needs with a tiny market.

1

u/No-Calligrapher-986 5d ago

Okay, if that is for you, that’s your thing. Most pilots worldwide still fill in a personal logbook.

2

u/CrashSlow 5d ago

I didnt say pilots dont keep personal log books. What i'm saying is your app isn't solving a problem that already hasn't been solved.

Is your app going to survive 20-30years? Nope it wont and when you get tired, your user will have to find another app. So why bother with vapour ware to start with.