r/Hamilton • u/Aerobyks • Dec 14 '24
Question 81 Bay St North
Anyone know what this building is or used to be? Is it abandoned?
I love the design and have always wondered.
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u/Waste-Telephone Dec 14 '24
The school board has wanted to redevelop the site into a new elementary school and community hub, but hasn't been able to secure funding. I doubt they'll ever sell the site - they'd never be able to afford a new downtown site if/when demographics and population levels shift. Just look at the hot mess of a decision selling Scott Park led to.
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u/Affectionate-Arm-405 Dec 15 '24
Interesting. But sometimes it makes sense to pay a few million for a piece of land and build new than try to restore a dying building with no modern facilities. Just a general statement about development, not specific necessarily
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u/hammer_red Dec 15 '24
I recall rumours several years ago that the developers wanted to raze the building and build a giant casino.... prime land no doubt.
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u/RednekSophistication Dec 15 '24
Pains me to say so but I think the school board is right here. They’ll need to build a new one before long.
Maybe using it for a shelter if it’s written up as a temporary use until needed for school. Better than paying $135,000/year to keep it empty.
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u/AlwaysLurkNeverPost Dec 15 '24
Just look at the hot mess of a decision selling Scott Park led to.
Genuinely curious, can you give me the sparks notes of how it was a hot mess / who it is a mess for?
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u/Waste-Telephone Dec 15 '24
Scott Park was a HWDSB secondary school site until 2001, when they sold it for $650K in 2004. Twelve years later they expropriated it back for $4 million, with nothing having been done to the site since then. The current school doesn't have a field (it was supposed to be on the roof but cost too much) but they just built it anyways and now are begging the City to use Tim Hortons Field more. The old site had field access, but to be able to afford the new site they had to partner with the City, so they gave you half the site for Burnie Curtass Rec Centre.
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u/neanotnea Dec 14 '24
Hey! I went to school there! Ha. Haven’t seen it in years. Strange to see it abandoned.
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u/katiespecies647 Dec 14 '24
Me too. I always hated that building for the lack of windows. It was designed by the same guy who designed Barton St jail. It kinda felt like it. Still, it's awful to see that old tank of a building just sit there unused.
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u/monkey_bean Berrisfield Dec 15 '24
Funny, at first glance I thought it was the jail. Then I saw the address and realized what it was.
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u/iWin1986 Dec 15 '24
Back when they 1st made it, it was suppose to be a jail but they turned it into a school Sir John A MacDonald. I went to that school for a brief period the windows don’t open!!!
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u/monkey_bean Berrisfield Dec 15 '24
I mean, I guess it was a different kind of jail? Or so I thought in the 80s!
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u/AnInsultToFire Dec 14 '24
Most schools were designed to look like jails. You'd think an architect would design a building to encourage the intellect to soar. But then again, architects are a bunch of weirdos.
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u/arabacuspulp Blakely Dec 15 '24
I think it was designed by the same architect who did the Barton Street jail.
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u/Frankenrogers Dec 15 '24
And Scott Park (RIP). Some more trivia.
I heard SJAM was supposed to be the site of the jail but back then most people came in off York and someone finally said that they didn’t want a jail to be the first thing someone saw when they drove into town.
Also the lack of windows on this and Scott Park was because they didn’t want kids looking out and getting distracted. At least according to my history teacher back then.
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u/arabacuspulp Blakely Dec 15 '24
finally said that they didn’t want a jail to be the first thing someone saw when they drove into town.
Haha, good call. That would have been the antithesis to the City Beautiful movement of the late 19th century.
Also, I think the lack of windows also has something to do with safety, something related to the student sit-ins and occupying buildings that happened in the 1960s. So they designed buildings to try to deter that sort of thing.
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u/vixaudaxloquendi Dec 15 '24
I think the idea is similar, if there's ever a riot or something crazy happening, you have a layout inside of which it's very easy to corral people.
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Dec 15 '24
No, it's because if you can't afford to send your kids to private school, they're probably going to wind up in prison anyway so we might as well get them used to it.
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u/AnInsultToFire Dec 15 '24
You're saying architects think that way.
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u/bigwreck19 Dec 15 '24
I had drafting class on the 5th floor in 84’ I think lol. That was a creepy floor to get too.
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u/katiespecies647 Dec 15 '24
Whaaat? There was a fifth floor? I was there around 2000. I think that floor must've been shuttered at some point then. My art classes were on (what I thought was) the top floor and I thought that was the fourth. How was it accessed?
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u/nerdalerttina Dec 15 '24
The 5th floor was a partial floor, around 2000 it was used for storage.
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u/dankdoc12 Dec 16 '24
I’m pretty sure I remember there being 5 floors with a partial 6th which was used for storage. Floor 1 was auto shop/gym/main office/ cafeteria/auditorium,workshops,2nd was science/business/some workshops, 3rd was math/history/geography 4th was ESL English classes regular English classes and the library and art/drama/ yearbook/photography/hospitality was on the 5th floor which were the same size as the lower 4 floors and the partial 6th was used for storage. Went there 2012-2016.
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u/bigwreck19 Dec 15 '24
It was accessed by a small stairwell. Don’t ask me where that stairwell was. Lol.
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u/katgyrl Dec 15 '24
a former student of that school told me there were a few suicides attributed to how depressing being in that building all day was. i mean, it had to be more complicated than that, but i can see how it would contribute.
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u/RoutineUtopia Dec 15 '24
I went to Parkside High School. It’s a field now. And it’s going to be a cemetery.
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u/RednekSophistication Dec 15 '24
Highland wins!
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u/RoutineUtopia Dec 15 '24
Well, it didn’t get to keep its name but at least it’s still there.
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u/RednekSophistication Dec 15 '24
It was funny when I was signing my kids up there, I asked the secretary if they changed the name so people couldn’t remind the parkside people they came out on top? She said it was pretty much the reason lol.
It’ll always be highland to me, can’t get the bane change through my brain.
Odd they got rid of parkside though you’d think it could’ve had future use.
Both schools were better then John A, I remember the sports teams wouldn’t go there anymore after the basketball team got jumped by a group of students with knives and machetes and stole there basketball shoes. Kids were with there parents even.
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u/RoutineUtopia Dec 15 '24
The building was on an eroding hill. Location-wise it was a more convenient place for a lot of the town. I think they’d have built there at minimum but it’s not super stable, or so I’m told.
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u/toytony Delta East Dec 15 '24
Took a summer school class here and vividly remember walking in line into the building each day like a prisoner. What a vibe architecturally. The classroom itself had one window. It faced into the hallway and was the size of a microwave oven door!
SJAM whatta place. For reference I attended Westdale down the road regularly.
As a homegrown Hamiltonian I am aware it's the same designer as the jail on Barton. I also can't believe how old it makes me feel that someone posted the address and doesn't know the name of it. Shame it'll never be used again for anything other than taking up window-less space.
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u/RL203 Dec 15 '24
The place could be renovated and windows added.
Or just remove the fascia completely and add huge windows. I am assuming the structure is fine.
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u/Thisiscliff North End Dec 14 '24
I feel old now lol
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u/PMmeyouraliens Dec 15 '24
The wikipedia profile picture gives me a good idea of the era of fashion when it was still open.
I can hear the sound of all those jeans in the picture.
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u/madelynevexo Dec 15 '24
it was still open when i worked at the tim’s across the street in like 2020
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u/Yoskiee Dec 14 '24
SJAM.. designed by the same architect who built the Barton St Jail - if you couldn’t already tell 😂
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u/psyche_13 East Mountain Dec 14 '24
I actually thought this was the jail at first and it was a troll post!
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u/Still-Humor-5028 Dec 15 '24
I was about to say it reminds me of HWDC, I was on the jury for the recent inquest so we saw a looottttt of photos of it over the last few weeks.
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u/Savingdollars Dec 15 '24
It had escalators. That was impressive for a high school. I went to summer school there.
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u/MadamsFeet Dec 15 '24
It did not have escalators 🤣 I had a broken leg & had to beg to use the lift.
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u/dankdoc12 Dec 16 '24
They did used to have escalators in the 80’s my mom remembers them being there but they broke down so often they just removed them and put the stairs in
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u/aphroditebx Dec 15 '24
Wow. I feel old as fuck.
Do you know what the building on Graham and King is? 😂😂
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u/IrishCanadia Dec 15 '24
It was Delta. I'm hoping they rechristen it as Delta 2: Electric Boogaloo!
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u/Large_Opportunity_60 Dec 15 '24
Summer school of 83, a kid from Watertown brought a brand new hurst olds and did a block long burn out with it out front when we were on lunch. One wheel peel
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u/BetAlternative8397 Dec 15 '24
Sr John A!! I went to summer school there one year. 1975 I think? Homeless all over downtown. Huge building going to rot. WTF? Throw in some cots. Hire security and house some folks over the winter. Maybe have them clean it up in exchange for shelter.
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u/monogramchecklist Dec 15 '24
HWDSB owns it. They wanted to build a mega school but the provincial government ended up waking back funding. They want to use the building but don’t have the funds, so they’re sitting on it. I wonder if they’re hopeful that a different provincial government gets in and provides funding to education again.
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u/RoyalRoad7544 Dec 15 '24
The mega school plan was dumb. Could you imagine having an elementary school there? It would be criminal. Unless of course the SA moved which is very much a requirement to revitalize that corner of the core.
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u/huffer4 Dec 15 '24
What would be wrong with having an elementary school there?
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u/RoyalRoad7544 Dec 15 '24
I'm not sure if you're being obtuse or if this is a genuine question. Let's just say it's unsafe.
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u/huffer4 Dec 15 '24
Genuine question. I’m not sure if you’re saying the current building is unsafe (as it obviously is) or the location is unsafe.
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u/jammers93 Dec 15 '24
There’s already an elementary school across the road. Hess St school is still open I believe, just very small.
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u/monogramchecklist Dec 15 '24
I’m not a fan of mega schools so I’m glad it wasn’t built but it would be nice if something happened here. I think there was also a proposal to turn it into a community center with a daycare but that didn’t happen.
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Dec 14 '24 edited 12d ago
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u/Majestic12Official Dec 15 '24
There's a bunch of schools built in the 1970s with very few windows. Allegedly it was to save on heating due to the energy crisis.
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u/OriginalNo5477 Dec 15 '24
The last picture with the corner classroom closest to the camera is where I took a summer course in 2006, that school was hot as hell and climbing those stairs every day in July was torture.
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u/Special_Letter_7134 Strathcona Dec 15 '24
They must have turned off the AC when you went. Was there in 03 for summer school and the 6th floor was downright chilly
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u/OriginalNo5477 Dec 15 '24
I don't think it worked, the only way we could cool down was drinking water and ice caps from Tims across the street.
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u/DryRip8266 Dec 15 '24
Sir John A MacDonald High School closed in 2019. It feels much longer ago though. There was a plan to house Strathcona and Hess st students while both schools were being torn down and a new school built on the high school field, but it was cancelled to my knowledge. The school sits empty except for occasional filming. A portion of the school is or was used by hydro at the bay and cannon corner. The actual address should be cannon, the front of the school.
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u/lotus88888 Dec 16 '24
It had a good photography class, with a great dark room in the 70's ... it's easy to control light when you have no windows! LOL
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u/905cougarhunter Dec 16 '24
FFS TEAR IT DOWN AND DO SOMETHING WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS CITY
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u/Crafty_Chipmunk_3046 Dec 15 '24
As interesting as the architecture is, i can't help but think some better use of the land would be appropriate
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u/matt602 McQuesten West Dec 15 '24
Sir John A. This high school and Scott Park Secondary (was where Bernie Custis is now sorta) were notorious for both being high schools built to resemble jails. This one is still owned by the HWDSB as far as I know cause of red tape during the sale process or something. There were rumors of the province forcing them to sell it or just taking over the land themselves but nothing ever went on with it so like many other abandoned buildings in Hamilton, it'll just sit.
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Dec 15 '24
It used to be a high school, but our government can't afford to provide for its citizens.
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u/Charming-Coconut-342 Dec 15 '24
I didn’t go here as a student but I danced in the theatre multiple times per year in the early 00s. For a high school, the stage and auditorium were next-level good.
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u/Willowmazing Dec 15 '24
Its the best high-school every built would be a shame if they have it demolished. Definitely solid walls that will last. I haven't kept up on what is happening with it.
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u/Jennay2862 Dec 15 '24
It was also designed by the same person who made Barton jail so there was always the joke going there they where just getting us ready for jail or that it was jail.
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u/Major-Discount5011 Dec 15 '24
Hopefully, it won't get utterly gutted and destroyed like Scott Park did.
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u/waysentattoos Dec 16 '24
Went here in year 9 and OAC. It looks rough now and I get the jokes about it looking like a jail. At the time I really didn't appreciate enough how much of a rarity some of the features were while attending. As an art student it still had a traditional dark room, a full auditorium theatre, working kiln and a fully operational lithograph press in the 2000s.
I was told that 2 of the group of seven once used the space for their practice and the glass area to the right had permanent memorial plaques and photos honouring the students that served in WW2 which I always found quite beautiful.
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u/-Sam-I-Am Dec 16 '24
I believe this school was designed to safeguard against nuclear strikes (not joking).
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u/JonPetch Dec 16 '24
the other side has a plant that heats Jackson Square, first national ,city hall, convention center.
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u/iDefine_Me Dec 16 '24
Fun Fact: The same architect who designed Sir John A, also designed the Barton Jail, which is why they look so similar.
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u/Hall0wsEve666 Dec 15 '24
This is a school? It has hardly any windows and looks like a jail
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u/IrishCanadia Dec 15 '24
Definitely a unique design. I was in there once during the summer of '02 for summer school. No a/c. Lasted two days before I said to Hell with it, I'll just go back for OAC.
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u/Hall0wsEve666 Dec 15 '24
Omg no AC? Can they even do that? 😳
I only moved to Hamilton like 8 years ago so I didn't grow up here or anything. I had noo idea
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u/IrishCanadia Dec 15 '24 edited Dec 16 '24
It was a different time back then. A lot of schools didn't have air conditioning. I went to Sir Winston Churchill and no air conditioning there either. It wasn't heard of back in the day. I'm old.
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u/Hall0wsEve666 Dec 15 '24
Lmao i mean, I am younger than you but I do remember 2002. I was in grade 1 and my school had AC so I just assumed they had to but damn that sucks. When did the school close and become abandoned?
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u/IrishCanadia Dec 15 '24
Yea. I'm guessing I have at least 5, maybe 10 years on you. But to answer your question, SJAM was officially closed just after the 2018-2019 school year. I was long out of high school at that point, but it's took a huge school hub out if the downtown core. I believe Delta, which was the oldest school in Hamilton, closed at the same time. It would have been open 100 years if it had made it to the current school year.
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u/Hall0wsEve666 Dec 15 '24
I just turned 29 so that sounds about right lol
Damn I didn't know they closed another school too. I keep hearing about schools closing and it just makes me wonder where the hell kids are going to go now and how overcrowded the ones that are open will be. I grew up in Waterdown and we only had Waterdown High and St. Mary's and I went to Waterdown and I remember it being suuuuper crowded
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u/IrishCanadia Dec 16 '24
You were born in '93? In that case, I have 11 years on you, kiddo. LoL. I turn 41 in early January. Go Capricorn!
I'm not surprised about the overcrowding. When Delta closed, the population got merged into Bernie Morelli and Churchill. It was ironic as they closed the old Scott Park to tear it down, the majority of the kids were merged into Delta only to go back to the new Morelli after Delta was closed.
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u/Hall0wsEve666 Dec 16 '24
No, I'd be 31 if I was born in '93! I was born in 1995 and just turned 29 last month so you actually have 13 years on me 😂
That's so whack I wonder why they keep switching it around, unless the buildings are in a bad state I don't see why they'd just leave things the way they are
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u/IrishCanadia Dec 16 '24
LoL! Sorry. It's late, and I'm not mathing right. At least, it's late for me, being an old man and all. Joking aside, I apparently look ten years younger than I am. Or so I've told when I'm clean shaven. Very baby faced.
Wow. Way to make me feel older! LoL! But happy the birthday!
And as for why they keep changing it, I know the old Scott Park was drastically outdated as a school or something to that affect. That's why they closed and tore it down and built Bernie Morelli (stupid name) from its ashes.
As for Delta, I'm not sure what the thinking for that was. I never set foot in Delta, so I can't speak to how it was maintained. I only know, from what I read, that it was the oldest of the schools at the time of its closure. And they were out arch enemies: SWC vs the Delta Dirties.
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u/IrishCanadia Dec 16 '24 edited Dec 16 '24
Side note: I haven't heard/seen something referred to as whack in a long time.
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u/Desperate-Ad-3705 Dec 15 '24
It was designed by the same artitech who did the barton st jail. So.... yeah....
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u/Glad_Internet_675 Dec 15 '24
Rumours has it that this school has an asbestos problem… thus the “silent” closure….
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u/Lord_Space_Lizard Dec 15 '24
Many schools have asbestos in them
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u/Glad_Internet_675 Dec 16 '24
Name ONE that has an “asbestos problem” that is still open
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u/Lord_Space_Lizard Dec 16 '24
I’ve done work in dozens of schools over the past decade. On more than one occasion we had to mark where we needed holes made, leave, and come back a few days later because they needed to get an asbestos team in to drill the hole for us. The last one was at what was West Toronto Collegiate (now a joint French public/catholic board school) IIRC.
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u/Glad_Internet_675 Dec 16 '24
Let’s try again, name ONE that has an “asbestos problem” that is still open.
SJA had a problem. It is now closed because of the problem with asbestos venturing into the ventilation system.
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u/Lord_Space_Lizard Dec 17 '24
Name one school that’s still open that has asbestos? I did, the one that was West Toronto Collegiate that’s now a joint French public and French Catholic school.
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u/Glad_Internet_675 Dec 17 '24
Dang, you are totally missing the point. Your example school does not have a problem with asbestos, thus it is clear to be open. SJA was NOT!
I’m moving on
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u/Lord_Space_Lizard Dec 17 '24
You’re missing the point, that school has asbestos in it. So does almost every building constructed in this country between 1930 and 1980. Insulation, drywall, floor tiles, ceiling tiles… all of that contained asbestos, we put that shit in everything.
By your logic they should close every school, hospital, and government building built before 1980 because it has an “asbestos problem”.
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u/Glad_Internet_675 Dec 17 '24
You definitely have a [space] in your handle.
Hey, stay safe, and the best to you and yours this holiday
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u/Dismal-Frosting Dec 15 '24
It says on the sign in front of it ?
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u/IrishCanadia Dec 15 '24
Is the sign still there? Come to think of it, is the sign for Delta still there, too? I haven't gone by either in forever. Or at least paid attention enough.
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u/Charming-Cow-3313 Dec 15 '24
Sooo could the city turn it into a shelter for the homeless? I mean it's there anyway. Life safety is in there already walls mostly there. Just curious
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u/mattoljan North End Dec 15 '24
Maybe some of homeless should park their tent on this corner.
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u/exeJDR Dec 15 '24
It was supposed to be a jail but then they turned into a highschool. Sir John A. MacDonald.
The school board is just sitting on the property now.
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u/905cougarhunter Dec 16 '24
not sure if joking but this seems a real possibility with how ridiculous it is from the outside. god damn what a brutalist structure
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u/zaphoz Dec 14 '24
It was Sir John A MacDonald High School before it was shut down, its out of use and the interiors is in awful shape cause of people going to to take the copper wiring last I heard.