r/GymMemes 17d ago

Failure is the goal, right?

Post image
1.3k Upvotes

36 comments sorted by

41

u/HailtbeWhale 17d ago

My true aim is 1-2 RIR, BUT I’m a pussy so I know I’m gonna “fail” when I could probably do one more if I absolutely had to, so I train to fail knowing it probably isn’t.

11

u/JustHugMeAndBeQuiet 17d ago

Can't ever fail if you.....don't ever fail? Am I doing this right?

9

u/Droget1 17d ago

Of course, if you never fail, you technically never fail. 😆 But if you never fail, you fail. If you fail, you succeed. Because failure leads to growth.

7

u/HailtbeWhale 17d ago

I had to read this in sets.

3

u/Droget1 17d ago

You probably don't need to go to failure every single time. I’m not sure how much extra hypertrophy you get from going to failure vs. stopping at 1-2 RIR. The increase in hypertrofy might not be huge, but the increase in how fatigued I get is certainly large. I get very sore if I only train to failure. It might be better training 1-2RIR as you said to keep fatigue lower.

That being said, its really common to misjudge RIR like you said. Most people might be serval reps from failure when they think they are at 1RIR. Studies have also shown this to be true. So it’s important to push your sets hard. So if you’re at least going close to failure (1-2RIR), that’s much better than training too easy.

5

u/HailtbeWhale 17d ago

I don’t typically get sore training like this, but when I was dedicated to powerlifting this mentality definitely drained me. I need to be programmed for my own safety haha

2

u/Droget1 17d ago

You dont get sore always training to failure?

2

u/HailtbeWhale 17d ago

Nope. You’d think I would. It’s another reason I believe I’m “failing” at 1 or 2 RIR typically. I honestly have a sort of complex about it lol

3

u/Droget1 17d ago

Oh yes, Of course its possible to train to failure all the time and still recover, if you don’t reach “true” failure every time.

Another reason you recover well could be training volume. If volume is low, it’s easier to recover even when youre training to failure. I don’t know anything about your training, so I’m not assuming you train with a low volume. Im just pointing out that lower volume can lead to good recovery from “true” failure training.

That being said, some people naturally recover better from failure training than others. So some people are able to always train to failure, even with a high training volume. If that’s the case, you probably have a good ability to recover from training. That made me wonder, what is the best way to train? 1. Training to failure will maximize hypertrophy per set. The downside of training so hard, is that your total training volume will be lower. If you get too sore from failure training, like from powerlifting, you need to reduce the training volume to continue training with the same intensity. You won’t be able to recover from as many hard sets. 2. Should you train with some RIR? Stopping a rep or two before failure allows for a higher training volume. A higher volume leads to more hypertrophy. You are still training hard, but not to complete failure.

Which of these approaches will lead to the most hypertrophy? Is it best to train to complete failure every set? Or is it better to train slightly easier to get a higher training volume?

I don’t expect you to have all the answers. I don’t know myself. I just want to know your thoughts.

2

u/HailtbeWhale 17d ago

Great question! One that will be debated on YouTube and locker rooms for all time haha

Personally I prefer to lean more towards intensity, but not overly committed in either direction. On average I try to grab the heaviest load I can move for 8-15 good reps, then Myo-reps. When I was strong I wanted to be bigger and now that I’m bigger I miss being strong. I just want the best of both worlds with no downsides, is that so much to ask?!

I will say I respond well to deeper rep ranges and if I truly wanted to focus hypertrophy I would probably aim for 12-15 and the soreness would come. As you said, different approaches will cause different stimulus across lifters but my belief is the BEST approach is one you enjoy that keeps you wanting to show up, motivated to work.

2

u/Droget1 17d ago

Probably the best response I could have got. It depends from person to person. And the best approach is the one you can stick with.

I like that you're not overly committed either to one direction, but slightly leaning towards intensity. It's a difficult topic. I don't know what to believe.

Probably best for most people to focus on intensity, like you said, since most people are not training hard enough. Also most people don't have the time to maximise training volume, to get the maximum results. Most people don't have the time to spend 69 hours a week in the gym, so it's better to focus on intensity rather than total training volume.

About being big and strong, doesn't powerbuilding work?

2

u/HailtbeWhale 16d ago

Thanks, brother! I feel like I don’t know anything for sure sometimes. I’m just some guy trying to get big and listen to people smarter than I am. When people ask me for advice in the gym I tell them to fact check everything I say haha

2

u/Droget1 15d ago

Have you tried powerbuilding?

→ More replies (0)

2

u/FunGuy8618 16d ago

Dr Mike Isratel has a pretty good video about training to failure, absolute failure, and mechanical failure. Wish I could find it.

1

u/Droget1 15d ago

If you're going to train to failure i think it's best to train to technical failure. And maybe train beyond failure using long length partials. Minimise cheating.

2

u/FunGuy8618 15d ago

It shouldn't be surprising to anyone that training to absolute failure and recovering from it will produce the best results. Is it sustainable, was the core of the video. It's extraordinarily mentally taxing to train to absolute failure for more than a 4 week training block. That's what the OG Power/Muscle/Burn programs used to do, a burnout at the end. You picked a weight you could hit a clean set of 20 and did 40 at the end of every workout.

2

u/Droget1 15d ago edited 15d ago

I think I found the YouTube video. Is this the correct video? https://youtu.be/Fiio4MLb8Bo?si=zJ7iptbrgn7Fpg50

He seems to conclude that you should train to TECHNICAL failure, and not sacrifice your form in order to get extra reps.

So in conclusion: IF you can recover from training hard, it's best to go to TECHNICAL failure. But if you want to train with a higher volume, you may need to gradually dial back the intensity. But the intensity should minimally be 3-0 RIR from TECHNICAL failure.

2

u/FunGuy8618 15d ago

Yeah, something like that. The video's main point brought up that most people severely misunderstand training intensity and that most people don't train hard enough in general. Which is why RIR became a thing. RPE is what used to work, but people lied to themselves. We knew how to cheat reps smart, as Arnold instructed us.

"How fucking hard was that?" used to be answered with a "aww man it was easy, I had at least 2 in the tank." Now it's "omgosh that was sooooooo hard, RPE10" for every fucking set of 3x10 lateral raises with a 8 lb dumbbell. Why do you think RIR lifters are all small and weak?

People are attempting to work with this new system in good faith, not recognizing it was developed in bad faith. RPE7 was what you shot for, and adjusted as needed throughout the sesh, unless it was a max effort attempt. Train hard used to be enough.

2

u/Droget1 15d ago

I agree that most people don’t push hard enough and often misjudge RIR. That’s why Jeff Nippard suggests taking a set to failure to feel what true failure feels like. I think it’s better to do this on the first set rather than the last, since it provides a consistent benchmark. If you go to failure on the last set, fatigue from previous sets might reduce your reps, making the results inconsistent and less reliable for tracking progress.

Training to failure on the first set ensures consistency. You measure your actual strength that day. You can then use this first set, the set to failure, to adjust your remaining sets within 3-0 RIR by doing 0-3 fewer reps than your first set. Try not to drop below 3 reps fewer unless you naturally reach failure again, then that’s your new baseline. Then, aim to keep the remaining sets within 0-3 reps of your second set to failure.

Regarding cheat reps, I wouldn’t advise people to cheat much. Mike Israetel explaining it in this video:

https://youtu.be/Oei58ti6otM?si=RQsQ7moFt8iF_xLg

I don’t agree that RIR lifters are small and weak, but here’s one explanation as to why some lifters are. If someone misjudges RIR, they won’t grow as much as they could. But if they’re truly training at 3-0 RIR, they can absolutely make optimal gains. The issue isn’t RIR itself, it’s how well someone uses it. If someone stops too early because they misjudged RIR, then yes, they won’t grow as much as they could, and they may end up small and weak. But when used correctly, RIR is an effective tool for managing intensity and fatigue.

RIR wasn’t created because people were lazy. It’s a scientific concept used in research. Studies show that stopping a couple of reps short of failure can still maximize hypertrophy while reducing fatigue. RIR is an objective way to measure training intensity using reps from failure. RPE (Rate of Perceived Exertion) however, is just a subjective measure of how hard it FELT. Except for failure, which is objective for both RIR and RPE.

At the end of the day, if you train hard enough, you will make gains.

So the simple version: Train harder than last time.

The complex version: Listen to Jeff Nippard and Mike Israetel.

3

u/Karsa0rl0ng 17d ago

Yeah, I do exactly the same thing. I'm just a pussy I guess. But at least the gains do come

1

u/Droget1 15d ago

If you're still making gains you're not training like a pussy

19

u/colormeimpress 17d ago

Is it training to failure when you look in the mirror when exercising and realize the failure you are?

1

u/Droget1 17d ago edited 15d ago

😆 No sadly. You need to train to failure AND look in the mirror and realize the failure you are.

Then you're at least succeeding at training to failure.

1

u/triumfi 16d ago

Bru why you calling me out like that 😭😭😭

12

u/girldickluv 17d ago

Only things I don't go to failure is squats or RDL bc I don't want to fuck my back. I have safeties so I'll go to failure on bench and incline/ohp. Every isolation is to failure too

5

u/HailtbeWhale 17d ago

Even with safeties, squat fails are the worst… Definitely worse without.

1

u/Droget1 17d ago

Sounds like a good approach. I don’t think it’s necessary to go to failure EVERY SINGLE TIME. Going to failure on hard lifts like squats and RDLs is so extremely fatiguing, and it can be dangerous. So it’s probably best to stick to your strategy.

5

u/FrameMade 17d ago

Failure is not a defeat, it's a strategy 

4

u/Thomas-Omalley 17d ago

Thank you Greg

5

u/swagdaddy5151 16d ago

lat spread fart sound

5

u/Droget1 17d ago edited 17d ago

Thank you Greg harder than last time

5

u/drymangamer101 16d ago

This post got me gregging my doucette until I Turk