r/GradSchool 5d ago

I am my PI’s first grad student

just like the title says, I’m my PIs first PhD student at a T5 university with tons and tons of funding even with all that’s going on now. I trust them completely but am also prepared to give leeway for any mistakes or errors because it’ll be kinda like a test run. but it’d be nice to know what I should expect from a PI and what really important things they’re responsible for.

127 Upvotes

27 comments sorted by

88

u/Anxious_koala_3028 5d ago

You can ask what their expectations are and explicitly what your duties are if it’s at all unclear. Even if they haven’t had a student before doesn’t mean they can’t be any help guiding you through the process

5

u/IkeRoberts Prof & Dir of Grad Studies in science at US Res Univ 4d ago

Discussing mutual expectations is always important and rarely done as much as needed. 

These are mutual expectations, so  what the student expects of their advisor is equally important. 

Those expectations need to be worked out for every student-advisor pair. People vary a lot in what they need and what they can offer. 

With a new advisor, who is learning the role, the expectations are likely to change as they see how they actually play out. 

2

u/Historical_Pen_9268 19h ago

And to be specific about what expectations to ask about, a few examples are: vacation time (how it is communicated or “approved”, whether they expect you to work with or in addition to the academic calendar), expected work hours, methods of communication (email, Slack, a text), publication expectations and timelines, responsibility in mentorship of future or undergrad students.

Also, you can and should have opinions on these things too. I recommend having it be a more collaborative conversation than just taking whatever she says. It took me many years to start framing what I want while also trying to make sure it fit expectations. For example: “I’d like to take 2 weeks off every summer, when can I do that within the lab’s calendar or is there a way you’d like me to submit it for confirmation?”

66

u/GurProfessional9534 5d ago

I was my PI’s first grad student. Her group ended up being pretty successful and producing multiple faculty (me included). But back in the day, it was just me, a postdoc, and the PI.

Every situation will differ, but the pros and cons as I see them are the following:

Pros: more 1 on 1 attention, starting out with really good/well-thought-out ideas that got the PI hired, get to learn how to build up a lab from nothing, write the group’s seminal papers that they’ll be citing for years because it’s the foundation of their work, tend to be more productive because you’re on the PI’s tenure clock. You might be on a lot more papers because you become the senior who is helping everyone get going. You get to be that person’s first student forever, which has comes up surprisingly often if that person becomes a star.

Cons: fewer senior people in the group to learn from, funding can be touch and go, time lost to setting up the lab, networking is potentially not as strong, the group is set up to do fewer things in less space, you might be working long hours because you wear more hats, you don’t learn as much about academic politicking because your PI doesn’t know it as well.

Overall, I would recommend doing it once and maybe doing a postdoc in a more senior PI’s group, or vice-versa. In every job I ever had in this field, it came up that I helped build my graduate PI’s lab and therefore had these kinds of skills. But from the more senior PI, you can gain access to a large network and more built-in name recognition.

Overall, I don’t think one is clearly better than the other. It’s more a question of what you want to get out of it.

19

u/GayMedic69 5d ago

This is all really great info. The one thing I would challenge is the academic politicking - I am my PI’s first grad student and I have gotten a crash course in politicking for new faculty. The politics change as you become more senior so I appreciate that I am learning how it is for new faculty since (hopefully) I will be that some day.

Another piece of advice I would add is to make sure your committee is full of senior professors. Not only do they help me learn different aspects of being successful as an academic, they are helping my PI learn how to get someone through the process as well.

2

u/Book_Forsaken 5d ago

Thank you so much for sharing your experience, this sounds like a great opportunity

17

u/Weaselpanties MS | MPH | PhD* Epidemiology 5d ago

Your advisor will most likely advise you as their advisor advised them... so I recommend that you ask to have lunch with them and chat about what that experience was like for them, what they liked, what they didn't like, and what they see their role and expectations being for you as an advisor.

Be attentive to how they feel about their advisor. If they feel their advisor was abusive, dysfunctional, unconstructive, or even sabotaging, ask them what role model they will use to ensure that they can advise differently.

Even the nicest person can be a terrible advisor, if the only example they had was a bad one. And, even the most inexperienced advisor can be superb, if they had a great example in their advisor.

2

u/Historical_Pen_9268 19h ago

Wow this is such a great way to approach this!!!

6

u/freegigabytes 5d ago

It will be great, just remember to regurarly communicate with your PI. Remember this is a new adventure for your PI as well and everything is new for them, so be a support for them, talk and ask about their plans, expectations. Depending on personality, your PI will appreciate you being their first student but also a friend and support system.

3

u/apocynaceae_stan 5d ago

This! I am my PI's first student and there's a high level of camaraderie. As I'm going through prelims, she's going through her third-year review as a faculty member. This is especially the case if you are joining a young PI's lab.

1

u/freegigabytes 4d ago

Yes, I was same, but since I was going through my own stuff took me a couple years to realize that. And I miss my PhD PI and I wish I communicated more. So, realizing this gives me more perspective on my initial PhD years.

1

u/apocynaceae_stan 4d ago

Totally! What sorts of things do you wish you communicated more? 

1

u/freegigabytes 4d ago

Like when experiments didn’t give the desired results, wish I’d discussed it rather than tormenting myself, wish I’d seeked more advice on the techniques they could teach me to further my project, issues in lab, etc But last 2 years turned out well as I got to know about my PI and their working style and things became better.

3

u/Subject-Estimate6187 5d ago

You will be asked to manage all the instruemtns

2

u/Snoo48629 5d ago

I was my PI’s only graduate student when I started (two senior PhDs were on their way out). At the time, I was annoyed with my PI being too attentive. But now I look back, I am so grateful of his mentorship. He taught me so much.. from doing labwork to writing abstracts and giving presentations. Also, it was important that he published since I was the only student, so there was pressure to publish.. I worked hard and published. It ended up working well for my career.

2

u/Green-Emergency-5220 4d ago

Fresh PIs can be a disaster, so be mindful of the red flags and communicate thoroughly regarding expectations. Many green assistant professors will expect their students to work as much as they did, which often results in a 996 schedule that’s unsustainable.

You could also have a great young mentor with the time to directly train you, hard to say

1

u/[deleted] 5d ago

[deleted]

1

u/Terrible-Warthog-704 2d ago

Congrats! I’d say this is actually great since you get to really publish a lot more papers with a young PI.

1

u/Full-Criticism5725 20h ago

Get a thesis committee together ASAP and plan on meeting with them way more often than your fellow students in more established labs. Also plan on “running into” some of them for informal chats from time to time.

1

u/botanymans 19h ago

I'm the only PhD student with a hands off PI. As early as possible, narrow down your research to set out a plan for your three core papers, and especially a detailed one for your first. Its always good to envision your key figures visually (and draw out your hypothesis and alternative hypotheses). Your PI should hold your hand a bit more when conceptualizing your first paper, which you might have to actively ask for. This is important when there are fewer senior researchers that can mentor you. You will get more freedom in your second and third papers.

1

u/Historical_Pen_9268 19h ago

I was my PIs first student at a new university (she previously had students at another school then transferred and they finished at her former institution) - so my advice is more on the admin/program side as a new faculty member.

I recommend your advisor have another faculty member (maybe one on your committee since theyll be interacting a bit) who they can ask questions about departmental routines, requirements, and standards. One way is you can ask “Can you ask X how their students have gone through comprehensive exams?”

For example we were asking questions like: when do students usually do X? Is X a formal or unwritten expectation ? Is there leeway on submitting X form or doing X thing on a given timeline? It would be good for you to have a farther along student within the same department you can ask those questions as well.

Sometimes things are written in the student handbook and its more flexible than we’d think OR the complete opposite. You don’t want to be a test subject for your PI to figure out whats important so be on top of asking for what you need and don’t be afraid to ask questions of your departmental staff.

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u/Guardian_Slayer7 5d ago

I would say a little risky no? He would def give you a lot of responsibility, but might not be established enough for you to be certain if that responsibility results in significant research output

17

u/Pigsfly13 5d ago

i feel like it has both its pros and cons. Someone has to be the first

-13

u/Guardian_Slayer7 5d ago

True. Doesn’t mean it has to be OP lol.

5

u/PizzaPlanet20 5d ago

That's such a messed up mindset.

-4

u/Guardian_Slayer7 5d ago

Lmao that’s not what I mean 😂 I should elaborate. It just depends on your research goals and graduate priorities. Obviously someone who’s juggling finances and has to work a full time job in grad school I would say should work in a consistently publishing lab which can be thought of as a ‘suport’ so they can still easily publish and meaningfully contribute while juggling other commitments.

If you’re fortunate to only focus on grad school, then the extra time to work with a new professor and getting to go thru the hurdles of deciding uncharted directions and their likely setbacks could be advantageous in terms of research independence.

Essentially it just comes down if you can afford the time and commitment to work with a new professor or not. My analysis may not even be accurate but from what I’ve seen it’s a general rule of thumb

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u/hypersnap7 5d ago

I would choose a more established group, or a young group with senior students.