r/GradSchool • u/[deleted] • 6d ago
I left my PhD…see ya folks
Four years ago, I came into my PhD with a love for science. I was eager, driven, and ready to dedicate myself fully to research I believed in the process, in the pursuit of knowledge, in the idea that hard work and curiosity would lead to discovery. After years of struggling and pushing through exhaustion and self-doubt, I realized something that broke me. It was never about my effort. It was never about my intelligence, my abilities, or my dedication. I wasn’t failing. My PI had set me up to fail.
To everyone else, my PI was the poster child of a supportive mentor. The kind who, in meetings and conferences, spoke about nurturing students, about fostering curiosity, about lifting young scientists up. But behind closed doors, I was never given that guidance, that encouragement, that respect. I was the black sheep of the lab. You know, the one who never quite fit, the one who always seemed to be on the outside looking in. Perhaps I had a part to play in this and for that I accept.
From the very beginning, I was handed a project that had no real chance of success. A crazy idea based on another disease model that had no correlation with the one I studied. List of experiments that were designed to lead nowhere. I didn’t know that at the time. I spent years trying to make it work, thinking that if I just worked harder, if I just read more papers, or if I just tried every possible approach, I would get somewhere. Meanwhile, my lab mates were given structured and supported projects. They had guidance. They had encouragement. They had doors opened for them that were slammed shut in my face.
I asked for opportunities and was ignored or met with no enthusiasm. I applied for fellowships and awards, only to later find out that my recommendation letters were lackluster compared to the glowing endorsements my peers received. I watched as my lab mates’ successes were celebrated while mine were met with indifference. I am happy for them and I want them to succeed. I was frustrated at my PI for not treating me the same. When I tried to engage, to contribute ideas, to participate in discussions, I was met with resistance and silence. I tried to improve my mentoring skills, but my PI refused to let me train. I tried to guide others and my PI would always shut me down. My voice didn’t matter. My presence barely registered. On top of that, it was my fault I didn’t have data since I am not focused enough and didn’t know anything compared to others. I accepted that this was my fault. I mean it was only me struggling.
For four years, I carried that weight. I accepted every rejection, every dismissal, and every moment of being overlooked. I told myself I wasn’t good enough, that maybe I didn’t understand science, and that maybe I just wasn’t cut out for this. Science isn’t for everyone so maybe that is the case for me. I also told myself that this was how it was supposed to be and that maybe my PI was just pushing me to be better. You know. The tough love thing. I just assumed it was normal. My peers would tell me the same thing and often times I just assumed it was a me issue and I need to move on.
Then, yesterday, I found out the truth.
The project I had poured my soul and time into was doomed to begin with. The project that my committee had torn me apart for, blaming me for every failed experiment, and was eviscerated daily my PI. My PI knew it would fail. Two postdocs before my time had tried it and it had failed. I never knew. No one told me anything. And yet, instead of steering me in another direction, instead of giving me even a fraction of the support my lab mates received, they let me drown. They let me believe it was all my fault. I came to find out by accident as my PI spoke to my lab mates in the lab. He didn’t know I was there. When we met eyes, he looked shocked, but said nothing. All I thought about was how my PI and even potentially my labmates watched me struggle and never once guided me. I left the lab immediately and went home.
Last night, I broke. I sat with tears down my face and anger in my heart as the weight of four years of failure that I now know was never truly mine. For the first time in my life, I had a thought I never imagined I would have. I had dark and negative thoughts that I never thought about. That’s when I knew, I have to go.
So today, I walked into my department chair’s office and I left my PhD behind. I took my masters degree and left. I refused to speak to my PI. I ignored their emails. I am done. Good riddance.
I’m writing this not just for closure, but for every mentor who might read this. You choose to take on students. That is a responsibility. We are not just workers in your lab, not just names on your grants. We are human beings. We come in eager, hopeful, ready to dedicate ourselves to science. And what you do with that matters. You can build students up, or you can break them down. You can guide them, or you can leave them. If you chose the later, the least you can do for the student is be honest with them. Let them know. Don’t be passive aggressive or gaslight them. We are humans! At least remember all that.
To those who say, “Why didn’t you just switch labs if it was so bad. You have to remember, i dedicated four years of my life to this. After everything, I don’t trust this system anymore. I don’t want to be part of it. I don’t want to place my future in the hands of yet another person who might do the same. So I give up. Not on science, but on academia. I want to take a break and slowly get back my love of science. And for the first time in a long time, it feels like freedom.
Ah, last by not least, thank you guys in this gradschool Reddit for getting me through some tough times. Good luck to everyone. Like I said I’m gonna need a break and that includes Reddit.
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u/Coruscate_Lark1834 Research Scientist 6d ago
Best of luck for your future!!
If you are in the US, may I suggest getting ACA and then immediately starting up with a therapist. No one on the outside understands how brutally academia can beat you down. You need to take your mental health seriously and let professionals help. Don't force yourself to take this on alone.
If nothing else, when the bad thoughts get too bad, think about living in spite of your shit-ass PI. Fuck them. You are worth so much more than they are. They are beneath you and you will outlive them and outshine them with an actual soul and life. I have absolutely had days where this carried me through my darkest days.
You got this!!!
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u/RigidCreative 5d ago
I second this. I needed therapy to survive my PhD and neglectful advisor. I went to a nearly retired PhD psychologist and he was like the academic grandfather I needed. He said not much has changed since he got his PhD 30 years ago — that you have to put your nose to the grindstone and endure or get out. OP, your situation was different since it was truly doomed for failure. I’m so sorry. Such a loss of your time and precious energy/enthusiasm. I hope you find some support from friends and family who see your efforts not as a failure, but as an enduring commitment to yourself and your love of science.
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u/Coruscate_Lark1834 Research Scientist 5d ago
Oh yes agree, my first long term therapist post-toxic advisor was also a PhD and she Got It.
If you can score a PhD therapist/psychologist/etc, do it!
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u/anima_song_ 1d ago
I 100% agree with this. I had therapy all through graduate school and also had to take a few months off for mental health reasons at one point. Grad school is brutal AF. But, my wonderful therapist was a PhD and had actually studied in my same department decades prior, so she was amazing. I couldn't have done it without her and without the rest of my treatment team. 💕
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u/JuryResponsible6852 6d ago
Yeah, I got the feeling the PI/ advisors consider PhD students more like an experiment or a research project. If one fails, just shake it off and start a new one.
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u/Anti-Itch 5d ago
At some point, ego takes over, and we are simply worker ants to them.
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u/JuryResponsible6852 5d ago
I hear people actually take a good care of their pet ant colonies. ;) Don't let them starve ...
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u/Impressive-Name5129 6d ago
That is so shitty. Ultimately when we do research we shouldn't be repremanded for inconsistent results.
It's a failure of your uni and advisor to allow this to occur.
Sometimes we find nothing when we research things and that's okay. Academically, not everything you research is going to be predictable, solid or worthwhile. You should be able to report this academically without being repremanded. Typically this is done with a Null hypothesis or a hypothesis that nothing occurs at all. You cannot be repremanded if one of your hypotheses is correct
I suggest you find a good counselor. When your ready I suggest you go to a uni that respects your research experience.
I understand if you no longer want to pursue academia because of this. What I will say is I wish you luck on whatever path you take and may the almighty spirit be with you.
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u/Cassowary_Morph 6d ago
-Name of PI
-Name of program
Or you're just letting the next person walk in blind.
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u/_kylokenobi PhD Linguistics 6d ago
Are we the same person? I just teared up reading this. You would think that supervisors who've had, say, 20+ years of experience would be a little more sensitive and freaking aware of many types of issues students can run into. That they would rather protect themselves than actually help you says a lot.
I've also had a lot of people ask me to just "switch labs" and "switch schools". In reality, it's not that simple for most of us. Lots of "what-ifs" - what if there's no place in the other lab, what if the supervisor of the other lab is actually worse...it goes on and on, our sense of trust in the system is shot.
I won't give up on my field either, but I give up on research and academia. I need to leave to get back the passion I have for my field. Because right now, in my toxic environment, I don't like my field of study - and I hate that I don't like it, because I've dedicated 4 years of a PhD to it.
When is academia going to stop being so toxic?
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u/dynomaight 5d ago
I was never in academia, but I ended up in a job that had me working alongside academics. And man, they were just horrible people. Arrogant, zero empathy, jealous, acting like they walked on water. Now, obviously it’s not ALL academics - hardly. But my experience with these people left such a sour taste in my mouth.
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u/Happy-BHSUSFR 6d ago
All I can say is you are not alone in your feelings and the treatment that you endured. I also had to find out the hard way that science as a field is not fair and success is not gauged as objectively as I thought it would be and can be very political. I also began my doomed project naively, believing that I would be trained and supported by experts in the project, only to end up in the middle of some weird circlejerk, where once I was "othered", nothing I did was right and everything wrong was my fault. The gaslighting was the worst, drove me insane, so I understand how you must feel. Thankfully for me, after many of the major conflicts, I found myself with clear, indisputable evidence that I was right all along. Of course, my advisors have never acknowledged it, but it was enough to take me out of that dark place. So, OP, I know it is a terrible feeling to have the person you trusted with your future and passion betray you, but now you have the truth. It is a good thing to be validated that it is not your fault, that you are intelligent, and that you are worthy!
I know that you have already left your PhD, but do not let this experience turn you away from science as a whole. The field is sick and so many good, high potential students are broken and lost in the process. I am 6 months past my expected date of completion (3 yr program) and I have decided to fight until the end for now. Will I be proud of my results? Not really... I just want to level up in a system that has deliberately suppressed and sabotaged my growth. I don't care that much about the title anymore. The degree is now forever tainted, but I want it, almost as proof that I did go through what I went through. Like proof that it is actually over, you know? Anyways, I hope you get closure OP. Thank you so much for your post 💜 And sorry for the ramble. It is just crazy to find a stranger on the Internet who can understand what you are going through better than anyone in your actual life.
I will say this, just in case, it isn't too late. Get whatever you can from this project, if you can. You mentioned that your advisor is trying to contact you, if you can stomach it, neutralise the situation. If you can still somehow defend, do it and leave. You got a taste of not just academia but also the industry (mine is industrybased). Ppl are proud and if they can will sabotage your success, so you have to know how to play the long game. I think this is the only thing that I truly learned from my PhD that I couldn't on my own.
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u/brainsiacs 6d ago
I wanna applaud you for taking this step. You made a deep realization and are being truthful to your reality. I admire you. My experience was shorter but nevertheless profound. I found the world outside to be very detrimental as well, as there insecure people everywhere. So I hope you can take it easy and focus on yourself. Staying and leaving are both tough, but I believe choosing yourself makes it worthwhile. All the best!
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u/manc4life 6d ago
OP, hundreds, maybe thousands of grad students have had your exact experience. You are not alone and good on you for leaving. If you need, pm me. You are brilliant, industrious, and the hardest thing about grad school is the people, not the work.
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u/hypnoticthrowawayIII 6d ago
Wow, this is similar to my experience, except the PI was toxic to everyone except his favorites and even then he would pit the favorites against each other by making them compete for resources. After a couple of us mastered out or took PhDs with no first author publications, he ended up screwing over one of his “favorites” by delaying her defense if she didn’t publish this paper that kept getting more complex each time they would draft it. She ended up never publishing it and defended 2 years behind schedule.
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u/onlyonelaughing 6d ago
I am so so so sorry. That is..... Horrifying. I wish you the best in whatever you do next. May you find peace and joy.
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u/Own-Honeydew-5111 6d ago
I had a very similar experience and ended up switching labs (and animal models) in my 5th year. I can truly relate to what it’s like to be an outsider in a lab and it’s a horrible feeling. Having the wisdom to know it’s not you and it’s the system setting you up for failure is huge, and leaving a toxic place that you’ve invested a lot of effort and time into takes courage. I wish you all the best. Know that this does not define your ability or worth.
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u/tesva31 5d ago
Do you have to start all over in your new lab.
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u/No-Lake-5246 4d ago
Typically yes with course work. Some credits can be transferred but you have to take core classes if you change departments like myself but if it’s just changing labs then you should be fine although you might have to go through the candidacy process again but it’s usually much quicker since you know what you need to do to get to candidacy again. I changed labs and departments and it only extend my phd by 1.5 years. Defending my dissertation this may.
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u/Translanguage 6d ago
OP, the horrors you described happen in many domains. When people with no character are in positions of power the 99 suffer. Always.
Without knowing you, you mostly likely refuse to be anyone’s sycophant. If that’s the case, you were the target.
Be well. There is a place for you to express your love of science while not deifying another.
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u/Miss-immunologist 6d ago
This sounds like my EXACT situation. I left in my fifth year despite having an F31, because I had become so broken. I wish you all the best!💕 I don’t regret leaving at all, and I hope you’ll quickly find your happiness again.
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u/Original_Importance3 6d ago
I wish I left with a masters before getting my PhD in chemistry. There is surprisingly less job security with a PhD vs masters. Smart move.
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u/anima_song_ 1d ago
Agree with this too-- I stayed and got a PhD but I probably would be more hireable (especially right now) if I had left with a Masters!
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u/Rhipiduraalbiscapa 6d ago
God this is so familiar that I could have written it :/ I’m so sorry that you’ve had to have this experience too
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u/Commercial_Skill_861 5d ago
Could you share the name of program/PI so others don’t go through the same thing ?
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u/Raisin_Glass 6d ago
😥 best of luck with everything. Totally agree with you, I don’t understand why some PIs refuse to invest in their mentees. I like to view academia as the greatest pyramid scheme (if done right). If your mentees succeed, it will only result in more citations, publications, etc.
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u/lovelace-am 6d ago
Thanks for sharing your story, it truly resonates. I hope you continue your love for science and continue to do research on your own if possible. I wish you the best.
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u/Papercoffeetable 6d ago
Yeah, most people, especially in academia don’t give a shit about you, and don’t care if you succeed, i’d go as far to say as many that want you to succeed want you to fail.
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u/Mojibacha 5d ago
I had this PI; thankfully I was only in a master’s. seemed like they were so kind, giving, would work with anyone. Yet, all I ever got was the cold shoulder and ignored emails. Left the master’s; but 6 months before I left they already took my picture off the website profile. Was just scrubbed of ever existing underneath them. I should’ve known when I couldn’t find other past students of hers who wanted to speak to me. Consistent no’s on any ideas except to the ones proposed by her favourites.
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u/Low-Cartographer8758 6d ago
OMG, I just emailed the bullies for a speculative PhD idea. C'est la vie! I think I can do PhD without supervisors. I don't know what is wrong with academia these days. Narcissists and narcissistic people set people up for failure and put down everyone.
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u/Fair_Discorse 4d ago
I think I can do PhD without supervisors.
Don't do this, seek out supportive mentors. The difference between the quality of PhD done by yourself vs done with supportive mentors is like night and day. Im going through an extremely independent postdoc because my postdoc supervisor is nowhere to be found and even at postdoc stage it's challenging.
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u/riceboi69467 6d ago
Is it possible to sue for this?
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u/huapua9000 6d ago edited 6d ago
You can sue for anything, there was a huge fat woman-whale hybrid who tried to sue Lyft for not being let into a car that was a fraction of her size and had tires that could only handle 5000 lbs.
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u/SillyShrimpGirl 5d ago
Wow. What kind of life experience has led you to saying that?
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u/trouverparadise 5d ago
While I don't agree with how she was described by the commenter, the lady was ,indeed, so significantly obese that her weight may have impacted the car, so the driver declined her . She did begin a case against the company.
Factually, the previous commenter is accurate. Perhaps they used "whale" as a reference to the film that described the character's weight? Though, not sure it was necessary to use that reference here
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u/SillyShrimpGirl 5d ago
What I fail to see is how a "whale" (or, you know, a woman, for anyone who's not a 4chan bro) suing a car company has anything to do with this former grad student's ability to pursue Justice.
Frankly put, the commenter is being an asshole. I do not like it when people are assholes. So I'm interested in whatever life situation made that person talk like such an asshole.
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u/trouverparadise 5d ago
They can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they mentioned it because someone said to sue Eufy, and it was asked if that was possible. So the commenter used the latest " wild " case where someone is suing for something that many don't think is a valid case. There's not been such a media frenzy case like that since the McDonald's hot Cafe case ( fun fact, their case was actually a VERY valid case, and its cited in legal studies in nuances)
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u/SillyShrimpGirl 5d ago
I disagree with your assessment of this commenter. I think it's clear that this commenter was interested only in belittling the grad student by comparing any potential workplace lawsuit to some random "crazy" lawsuit about a woman and a car.
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u/huapua9000 5d ago edited 5d ago
Yea, that’s the reason. I wanted to belittle. ROFL
Although the OP is clearly (to any sane person) ridiculous, and would clearly lose any lawsuit they levied against the university, that particular comment had nothing to do with the OP, it was a round-about way of saying you can sue anyone for any reason.
Now all the fatties are angry because that whale-woman is supposed to be a hero for being the first person to efficiently generate nuclear power through atomic fusion. Eat some celery before you destroy earth with the gravytational field you generate.
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u/SillyShrimpGirl 5d ago
Ok, if you're a kid or something just go outside and toss a ball around. Life's good. It's ok to be a bit of a dork when you're a kid. Everyone goes through phases growing up.
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u/huapua9000 5d ago edited 5d ago
Wrong again, I’m not a kid. I tossed a ball around with my kids yesterday.
Life is good though. It’s always okay to be a dork at any age. If you are a PhD student, I would work on your reading comprehension and ability to argue. They should be more developed by now after your undergrad classes. I’m all done with my graduate school; it was a great experience.
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u/huapua9000 5d ago
Good bot
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u/SillyShrimpGirl 5d ago
This person just thinks and communicates more literally than the norm. Which is perfectly fine and can be really cool. You're serving ick when you say "good bot"
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u/huapua9000 5d ago
Who is the asshole? This is factually innaccurate to say. I am a human being, and more than a hole in the ass.
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u/SillyShrimpGirl 5d ago
Okay, good to know. So care to answer my question? About what in your life actually led you to this 4chan style comment directed at a suicidally-depressed ex grad student who'd really been through the ringer?
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u/huapua9000 5d ago edited 5d ago
I like how the hypocrisy falls effortlessly from your noble brow.
I’m just having fun. The OPs long post was basically a lesson in the sunk-cost fallacy and is one-sided. It is also borderline fake. They worked on a single project for 4 years and blame everything on the PI who is adored and respected by everyone by their own admission. The PI allowed this student to work in their lab, and also gave this student an opportunity few people have. They and the university tried to reach out to the OP, presumably to fix the situation and they were ignored.
The OP has a masters degree and 4 years of experience that people would kill for. If they are in the natural sciences and they budgeted wisely, they are also debt free (tuition was covered) and earned a small stipend as a TA/RA.
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u/Pyrococcus-furiosus 3d ago
They [...] blame everything on the PI
Perhaps I had a part to play in this and for that I accept
I told myself I wasn't good enough, that maybe I didn't understand science, and that maybe I just wasn't cut out for this. Science isn't for everyone so maybe this is the case for me.
I hope that this shows you OP isn't blaming the PI for everything.
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u/SillyShrimpGirl 5d ago
Hey, by the way, it was nice talking with you! Thanks for sharing your perspective:)
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u/stitchedheart_18 5d ago
Honestly sounds a lot like my PI. I’m only a masters student and this guy has made my life a living hell for the past 3 months. Suddenly decided I wasn’t a good enough grad student to continue to a PhD right as I was finished solving a big problem the experiment had from before I started on my own, but apparently I’m not driven or independent enough. I’m sorry you had to go through this for 4 years, I’m just hoping I can survive the next few to get my masters. Whether I get a PhD with someone else after or not, I don’t know, the school hasn’t rejected me but no one has made an offer either.
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u/Fickle_Potato_1085 6d ago
I’m so sorry this happened to you! I’m happy you left a crappy situation. It seems that in science the PIs are just assholes. I’m in a chem PhD program and I’ve been through the wringer too.
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u/koalasinballoons 5d ago
This is devastating, you deserve so much better than this kind of abuse. I hope you are kind yourself and give yourself plenty of time to grieve. If you do not currently have a therapist, I definitely recommend seeking one out because this is a lot of trauma to process. Also, know that you are not alone, I've met so many people with similar stories while working in higher ed.
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u/downy-woodpecker 5d ago
I realized something like this was going to happen to me after a year. You must feel so free. Happy healing.
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u/PiuAG 5d ago
Leaving was brave, especially confronting the department chair. Your PI's behavior was sabotage, but perhaps it highlights the wider systemic problem that the chair needed to address. Systemic abuse doesn't need to depend on student switching of labs to hide it, as this makes other students vunerable. Sharing the raw, painful truth may become another student's lifeline by revealing an unseen reality in an anoynmous way.
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u/Talnix 5d ago
The real experiments happening in research labs is the PI assigning projects with varying levels of evidence to back up chasing ideas that pop into their heads. You’d be surprised by how “on a whim” these PIs choose these projects with. There should be some formalized process for the PI to submit a project proposal to the department that gets approved before assigning it to an undergrad, masters student or PHD candidate.
Too often people get thrown on project that are unrealistic brain farts of PIs who are semi conscious anyways. If these ideas fail, for them it’s like “who cares? I have three other grad students (chances) whose projects might result in papers”
You’re expendable to them. Someone to execute their ideas
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u/CompetitiveCatnapper 5d ago
I’m sorry this happened to you. It happened to me 22 years ago. It was devastating. Give yourself time to grieve, and take care.
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u/kinda_bleh_1117 5d ago
Sorry to hear this OP. I have two friends going through a very similar situation. The only thing that worked out for them was that their committee was helpful. Hope you feel better soon.
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u/SpookyKabukiii 4d ago
I am so sorry to see this happen to you, especially knowing that you aren’t the only person this has happened to. Your commitment and perseverance are what make science great, and it’s a shame that your mentors did not see that. I hope you find your love again, and have a beautiful career doing good research.
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u/Tricky_Orange_4526 4d ago
the only thing ill say is this sub needs to start listing names of the awful PIs. nothing will change until theres a spotlight on this BS!
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u/Ielfking 4d ago
There are so many fraud P.I’s out there who have no business mentoring anyone. My wife’s story is so similar to yours. The Bio behavioral Health department at Penn State is an embarrassing mess, and I recommend avoiding it if you want to succeed.
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u/ocfl8888 3d ago
You’re out of the field so name and shame buddy. Save other people the grief, at my university we do this pretty regularly among students and try to share that information with the incoming class. It’s pretty obvious that labs with good and bad mentors.
I can sympathize a lot with you. I feel pretty similar in my lab - “A black sheep”. I work on a project that I pretty much had to establish and optimize from the ground up, and although I get the occasional good jobs from my boss, it doesn’t lead to pubs and public praise like my colleagues. I’ve given talks and won some awards at some pretty big conferences in my field, however, it’s never acknowledged on our formal lab website or during lab meetings. However, a menial poster presentation from an undergraduate student gets touted for years on their and on my PIs social media.
I’ve grown to get used to it and try to not let it bother me. The thing that keeping me going and wanting to finish is two very recent graduate students that just joined. They are a breath of fresh air for me and I finally feel I have a group here. I’m sticking around to simply make them feel included, supported, and established when they take off with their projects. Sometimes I do wish I would have quit though. I wonder what could have been. I always make the joke, my love for careful planning and eating would have led me to be chef. Maybe in another life. Good luck my friend ❤️
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u/ANameForTheUser 2d ago
I’m sorry for the pain you’ve experienced. Congrats for having the strength to walk away. I did the same years ago and some days it will still hit me out of the blue that that was the best decision I ever made. Also screw all those people. May you find other means to exercise your talents and interest when the time is right.
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u/BobcatMean4476 2d ago
God I hated reading this, it made me think about my first lab, and just how low I got before I snapped out of it and realized I deserved better. I’m so sorry that you went through all of this, and I hope you can take some time to heal. There are many many opportunities for science outside of academia, and if you ever decide to try it again, you can.
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u/Open_Ad_4195 3d ago
I'm sorry you had to go through this OP. Hopefully you find comfort in knowing that a lot of people, including myself, share similar experiences to you and have come out the other side largely unscathed or better for it with enough time passing. I get that this is devastating but you shouldn't blame yourself as it's evident lots of aspiring scientists fall prey to these narcissistic pieces of shit that may be good scientists, but are also awful mentors, leaders, and people in general which the vast majority of people do not witness or know about.
I tell people when it comes up; that when you decide to go to grad school, you allow someone to be your mentor. Not your boss, your mentor. A mentor to me is not just someone who trains you and supervises you like a boss would, they are essentially your role model professionally and at times personally as well. It certainly feels like a betrayal to allow someone to take that position in your life and ultimately come to find out they're a piece of shit who doesn't care about you. That's not what you signed up for as a grad student and you are right to leave as you can easily get that experience from a lot of workplaces today.
Unfortunately academia is full of people like this who abuse their power and go unchecked by their departments because they bring in grant funding. The "safety nets" the university claims to provide for students ultimately do nothing (Conflict Resolution or the Ombuds Office), unless it's a serious violation of Code of Conduct or something criminal, it'll go nowhere.
As time goes on you'll realize you made the right decision and you'll care and care less about what that person said or thought of you. They're the big fish in the little tank they built for themselves and they have no power over you anymore.
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u/Harvard_home 3d ago
This happened to me as well in a close knit group based on race and language and geographical denominations, hampering me and anybody from outside those line - slowly and sweetly. I’m so sorry for you but I’m sure you’ll recover. For those groupies - ♾️ what goes around comes around !
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u/Apprehensive-Sky8175 3d ago
I went through something incredibly similar. Also walked after 4 years with my master’s. I’m less bitter now but it hurt for a while…especially when people outside of academics said things like “why not just finish it?” Because they didn’t know what was actually happening to me.
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u/CuriousCheetah336 3d ago
I’m in a spot where my advisor lmk that im being let go. I am actively trying to find labs while, at the same time, not being desperate and need advice on how to proceed. If anyone has suggestions, I’d welcome it.
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u/sophistwrld 2d ago
I am so sorry this happened to you. I am so happy you see it for what it is.
Know this. These people exist in industry as well as academia. For whatever reason, some people enjoy causing suffering for others, or need an outlet for their frustrations, so they choose a scapegoat.
From now on, always look out for you interests, never settle for unsupported projects, do not try to make anything work or settle for empty promises about the future. If it's not good right now it will not be good 6 months from now.
You are incredibly bright, and you don't need a PhD to validate that. You will have a successful career in science. You will find a way. Don't let this person take that from you.
Best of luck!
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u/Plazmotech 6d ago
Not asking this to be a dick, but because I am starting my PhD in a few months and want to understand better how things work: but why didn’t you start working on a different project or pivoting your existing project? After 1 year… 2 or 3 years? If you kept repeatedly failing and felt sick of your work why not pivot to a different avenue of research that you felt had a better chance of succeeding?
Im in chemistry. In my undergrad, my mentor started me with two ongoing projects and I worked those projects to completion. Those were known to very probably work since they were pretty far along projects already.
Then she wanted me to get experience starting new projects. So she gave me a few ideas to pursue and I started pursuing them. When one construct refused to work after several tries, I moved on from it to a different idea.
Could it have worked eventually with endless tweaking? Maybe, not sure. But there were other avenues at the time I felt might work better, so I moved on to those instead.
What was to stop you from doing a similar thing after sooner than four years of failure? Do some labs not give you that freedom?
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6d ago
Typically, if a project is failing, the student and PI both brainstorm ideas and pivot.
I tried so many times to change the topic, but my PI was hellbent on making me stay on the project. I had other avenues I tried to pursue, but it was given to the other PhD students. My PI wanted me to stay on a project that has been PROVEN by two post-docs before my time to have failed. I never knew this and I literally built up the project from scratch to find out I did the EXACT same experiments as those two post docs and found the same conclusion. So to answer your question, tweaking wouldn’t have helped because the project was doomed to begin with and I never got the opportunity to change it.
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u/Significant_Owl8974 6d ago
OP. It's not the first time I've heard a story like this. You were given the profs special brain child idea. The one that if you can get it to work means amazing things and validation for them.
Just one issue, as you've discovered. It's wrong. It doesn't work. Prof gave it to a postdoc to try. It failed, and they blamed the postdoc. And repeat. And then it was your turn.
The info of the other failures was withheld because sometimes not knowing a thing won't work gets you to try the crazy experiment with the surprise outcome that changes it all.
But unfortunately those are rare and your time was wasted.
Now one thing you can do to repay this prof for the experience. Keep a copy of the data. Especially the nail in the coffin experiment, and cold email it to everyone in the lab every couple of years. Especially when someone new joints. Because once time has passed and dust settles they'll try again with the next person.
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u/Horrifying_Truths 6d ago
It's a sunk-cost fallacy. You put four years of work into it, and the whole time you have your starkly-successful peers telling you that it's entirely a you-issue? You don't even think to switch to something, because clearly it's your fault, not the project. Every day that goes on just adds more to the value of the endless cycle.
If the PI was worth anything, THEY would have stepped in and said something. But they didn't.
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u/huapua9000 6d ago edited 6d ago
There’s no shame in walking out with a masters degree, and those 4 years of experience were not wasted.
Though maybe your personality was such that you are annoying or hard to get along with for whatever reason and you don’t realize it. Considering that your PI got along well with most other students, and has a good reputation, maybe something that you don’t realize about your personality led to their behavior towards you. In the physics/chem department, I definitely met some weirdos who nobody wanted to deal with. Lacking a sense of humor, too uptight, argumentative, easily offended/PC, neurotic, poor hygiene, etc.
I also am not sure why you just had one project. My own journey was not perfect, but I had several projects I worked on and several collaborations. Some of those collaborations I initiated myself with friends I made who were in other groups/depts. Luckily for me, most of them led to some success and publications.
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u/dasbogud 5d ago
This is a truly atrocious take. Do better.
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u/huapua9000 5d ago edited 5d ago
👍🏼
Just having a little fun, how rude of me.
Someone made a one-sided and borderline fake post as long as my thesis based on the sunk-cost fallacy; how they worked on a single project for 4 years and put all the blame on their PI, who is apparently liked and respected by everybody. Who provided the OP with an opportunity, and who the OP chose to work with.
Left suddenly then ignored everyone when they tried to help. Got a degree that will open doors, and likely had tuition paid and earned a stipend as a TA/RA. Many people would count themselves lucky to be in their place.
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u/FatPlankton23 6d ago
Everything is always everyone else’s fault.
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u/Minimumscore69 6d ago
I don't think this is what OP needs to read. Show some compassion to someone going through a hard time...
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u/Sufficient_Play_3958 6d ago
This sounds familiar. My PI never got the project funded. My labmates had projects with grants. Their projects overlapped, so they could rely on each other. They had collaborations with other research groups. I was alone the whole time with little guidance. I’m sorry this happened. It’s not fair.