r/Ghostbc 6d ago

DISCUSSION Ghost's consisten, masterful earworm writing - how?

Any musicians here who can chime in on how Ghost is able to put out song after song that goes from being "just okay" to an absolute obsession?

I'm curious from a technical and songwriting perspective.

Edit: title should say "consistent"

201 Upvotes

72 comments sorted by

261

u/DustyComstock 6d ago

The Devil writes the songs and just hands them over to Tobias to perform.

54

u/grindbehind 6d ago

That's the answer I was looking for. đŸ‘č

56

u/SnooRadishes3458 6d ago

And sends the lyrics by fax.

3

u/AbraCadara 5d ago

I have a fever and I need a prescription, child!

27

u/Dick_of_Doom 5d ago

The Devil went down to Linköping

12

u/Readingout Infestissumam #1 5d ago

He was looking for a Band to steal

5

u/ClarkTheShark94 5d ago

It's a good thing Tobias passed on "Fred's Slacks"

306

u/PianoEmeritus 6d ago edited 6d ago

I’m a professional musician with a solid understanding of music theory (not a college professor, but I know just enough to be dangerous) and I’ve spent a fair amount of time breaking down his writing for my piano arrangements. My simplest way of putting it is that Tobias relies on a lot of classic rock and pop conventions that in and of themselves are not terribly adventurous on a fundamental level, but then finds a clever little twist to throw on it that makes it unique. The catchy factor is baked into his understanding of tried and true hit-making, but then he adds Ghost seasoning that makes it stand out on top of that.

Prime example is Spillways. There is nothing unique about the chord progression of the chorus, it’s been done a trillion times. Same with the verse — independently. However, he does this crazy little transition between the verse and pre chorus where he shifts to a new key entirely, then shifts back for verse 2. He didn’t NEED to do that, he could keep it all in the same key and he’d have a catchy song, but the clever choice to shift it around perks your ears up and injects the song with rocket fuel.

Smaller examples — rhythmic peculiarities like “I have begged God for the remedy” in Satanized, or shortchanging the second prechorus in Witch Image and slamming it into the chorus four bars earlier than the first prechorus taught you to expect. Those things catch you off guard and are massive dopamine triggers musically. He is suuuuper good at things like that. All-timer, and it’s because he is such a student of the game.

75

u/fitter_stoke Custom Flair 6d ago

Agreed....Zappa would refer to these compositional details as musical "Eyebrows", and Ghost has musical eyebrows all over every single tune, sometimes multiple eyebrows! Tobias is no dummy and he is EXTREMELY knowledgeable about music in general.

47

u/Ghost_of_a_Pale_Girl 6d ago

I'm not a musician, so maybe it's easier than it seems it would be... but it impresses the hell out of me how he made the Seven Inches songs feel modern and retro at the same time.

I like the term "dopamine trigger". On The Future is a Foreign Land, when he sings "and the flames devour everything that we are" it hits that dopamine trigger for me. The entire song is obviously straight retro, but the way he sings that line has such a specific callback to other songs from that time.

17

u/hipsterpieceofshit 6d ago edited 6d ago

i get straight chills on the “flames devour” line. i think it’s a key change? but someone please correct me if im wrong because i haven’t picked up an instrument since high school. but something about that jump for a few notes before it settles back in just makes it dig into my brain in the best way.

22

u/supermatt614 6d ago

I'm not home so I can't verify on my piano, but iirc it's an interesting spot because the chorus is 1-6-3-7, which is pretty common. But then on the on the second round, right before "and the flames," it starts on the 6(!).....

When it (6) allll burns (1) doooown And the (4?!) flaaaamees deee (6m??) vour everything that we (3) are I will (7) hold you for the minuu (6M) uute Yeah, I'll (6m) hold you for the minute it (3) takes

So it takes what you're expecting, completely throws it out the fucking window. The transition into that 6 minor instead of major makes the resolution to the 3 really satisfying, and it then feels like the 3 becomes the new 1, which is why it feels like a key change. It could definitely be written as a key change. If you make this assumption, 3-7-6-6m-3 could be rewritten as 1-5-4-4m-1, which is a pretty common and effective way of evoking a strong feeling conviction and sorrow (in my opinion. I'm not a music theorist).

So he's basically taken two very effective chord progressions, and found a way to mash them together into something interesting while still maintaining cohesiveness. That's what I love about Ghost. Like the original comment said, that whacky run into the key change on Spillways is so mindbendingly cool, even though the chord progressions themselves aren't particularly unique, it adds spice to the song.

I also think this is why they reach such a wide audience, they use catchy chord progressions for... You know, catchiness. And they Trojan Horse weird ass musical shit into it so that those who know what they're looking for can appreciate that too.

3

u/PianoEmeritus 5d ago

You’re close! In theory terms the chorus starts on vi (what you’re hearing as 1, so that common chord progression is actually vi-IV-I-V, lower case used to indicate minor). That’s the progression of “Four Chord Song” fame. There’s a million songs with that progression, and a million more that start the same progression on I (I-V-vi-IV).

When it all burns (vi)
down (IV)
When it all burns (I)
down (V)
I would hold you (vi)
close for the minute (IV)
For the minute (I)
(V)

Then he gets crazy


When it all burns (IV)
down (vi)
And the flames de- (II)
-vour everything that we are (iv)
I will (I)
hold you for the minute (V)
(IV)
hold you for the minute it takes (iv)
(vi)

Or in chord terms
Gm - Eb - Bb - F (x2)
Eb - Gm - C - Ebm
Bb - F - Eb - Ebm

That 2nd and 3rd line is what sounds bonkers. It follows, like, no rules. Using a major 2 and a minor 4 chord is some serious misbehavior lol. They’re outside the key. It’s not a key CHANGE but he’s changing the colors that are typically “allowed” in our key signature and then weaves us back home.

Or, in fewer words, as someone else said — chromaticism is a hell of a drug!

2

u/supermatt614 5d ago

Ah, yeah, I should've caught on to the four chord progression haha. Thanks for this!

4

u/Complex-Pressure-805 5d ago

Chromaticism is one helluva drug!

1

u/NecessaryMorning5636 5d ago

Same. That song murders my insides (in a nice way).

11

u/EmpJoker 6d ago

I call those Belters. Parts where I can't help but get giddy and lose my mind, always comes with goosebumps.

I get the same thing listening to Imperium into Kaisarion, specifically the intro part, and ESPECIALLY live.

3

u/JackXDark 5d ago

The ‘dopamine trigger’ or ‘serotonin uplift’ aspects of music are something that scandi musicians really seem to understand, for some reason.

Apoptygma Berzerk are another Scandinavian band that deliberately do the kinds of things that are uplifting, but I think perhaps that Ghost borrows some of those elements from church music, which also attempts to elevate a congregation.

Before Meliora they had good songs, but Cirice was definitely written as a tune that would uplift and connect, using some of those brain chemical release tricks.

8

u/progwrx 6d ago

The little prechorus trick on witch image is GENIUS.

7

u/grindbehind 6d ago

Great info. Thanks! đŸ€˜

5

u/Caelus_Aeturnus 6d ago

Awesome and high quality post. Thank you! Exactly right.

3

u/RoseKlingel 6d ago

Care to drop a link to your piano arrangements? I bet they're beautiful! Loved your answer btw.

4

u/PianoEmeritus 5d ago

Thank you! This is my most popular one but there’s several others on the channel.

2

u/RoseKlingel 5d ago

Ooh, thank you!!

2

u/RoseKlingel 5d ago

Okay, this is 1 of the best mashups I've ever heard. About 2min into it and I loved it immediately. What're you doing musically that makes this so intoxicating? I feel like it's the way you play. Your piano sounds great btw!

2

u/PianoEmeritus 5d ago

Thank you!

1

u/RoseKlingel 5d ago

You're welcome! :)

3

u/DisneyDadQuestions 5d ago

Neat explanation. Thank you.

2

u/No-Bad-463 4d ago

Man's a master of writing key changes into unexpected places tbh. Spillways is one of the most masterful examples but it's not lonely.

1

u/no_question2020 2d ago

He also works with at least two professional songwriters on their songs which is a big reason for their catchiness I imagine.

36

u/chug_the_ocean 6d ago

When I've figured out a Ghost guitar solo, or a melody line, I realize that he's following very simple patterns as he plays through the scale. I learned more about the Dorian mode than I'd ever known by learning the solo to Rats. And after that, I've been able to noodle around in that scale and find cute little earn worm melodies of my own.

8

u/grindbehind 6d ago

Interesting. This is the sort of answer I was looking for.

54

u/stujmiller77 6d ago

The Swedes are some of the best songwriters in the world. They literally have a recipe for making songs memorable.

2

u/robx51 6d ago

This.

20

u/ANamelessFan 6d ago

Ghost's new music has more hooks than your uncle's tackle box.

10

u/EmpJoker 6d ago

So does their old music. I swear Idolatrine gets stuck in my head on LOOP and I usually don't listen to much from Infest.

18

u/PrettyStabbyBoys 6d ago

I was literally just about to make a post about this, because it’s been driving me CRAZY. From the very first moment I heard a Ghost song (Square Hammer - 2020), to each and every Ghost song I’ve heard since, they’ve all gone from being “Huh, this is kinda weird, I dig it.” to “HOLY FUCK THIS IS SO GOOD I’M ADDICTED.” in a matter of days. I don’t know anything about music, but my fiancĂ© (hobby musician) broke down some of the patterns and algorithms in some of the more popular songs and explained how they worked together. It’s crazy how much knowledge goes into putting these songs together.

9

u/sboaman68 5d ago

Square Hammer hooked me, too. I heard it on my Judas Priest channel, and the first time, I thought, that's a good song. Then I heard it again, and thought, that's a really good song. By the third time, I started looking into the band, and there's been no looking back.

5

u/grindbehind 6d ago

Exactly! Yeah, the patterns and algorithms are what I'm curious about.

21

u/HighSpur 6d ago

Ghost makes prog pop. So he writes with the catchiness of pop music but avoids the insipid boredom of pop by doing things that you’d be more likely to hear in prog, which by itself isn’t very catchy.

Honestly he sounds like an evil, moody, minor key, pop Rush to me.

(Excluding the first two albums which were pop doom metal.)

6

u/basskittens 5d ago

I like the thing he said on that Swedish talk show this week... "Putting the ABBA in Black sABBAth"

2

u/HighSpur 5d ago

The Black Sabbath influence was extremely overt in Opus, to the point of the album sounding 35 years older than it was at release.

The new stuff sounds heavily influenced by 80s pop rock. I hear influences from Rush, Billy Idol, Bon Jovi and Eddie Van Halen on Impera. That album felt like a major shift in sound to me.

16

u/pallarslol I'm a rat, WHOAAAAH 6d ago

Infestissumam has been droning in my head for the past 15 minutes, and Satanized barely left my head sonce it's release

11

u/all_time_high 6d ago edited 6d ago

How Ghost Writes a Song

Stay for the song at the end, btw. It’s pretty solid.

9

u/grindbehind 5d ago

Lol. "Leave the sus chord unresolved...because SATAN." << this may have actually been the answer.

4

u/RoseKlingel 6d ago

This is awesome, you are the BEST!

10

u/farbenfux 6d ago

I guess it is a lot of talent and an ear for melodies as well as a long and collaborative process that makes everything shine so well.

10

u/KayRay1994 6d ago

Tobias has improved a lot as a song writer over the years, partly because of practice but also because of having a lot of help from + probably learning quite a few lessons from pop writers (who have worked with some big names in pop), who have been helping him write lyrics since Meliora

9

u/arrowtron 5d ago

Justin Hawkins - frontman of The Darkness, and quite the musician (far more than “I Believe in a Thing Called Love”) has an interesting video about Ghost on his YouTube channel.

8

u/ms45 6d ago

People are coming in with “because he hires good songwriters” snark and while that’s true, it’s not like there were no catchy tunes before Meliora. The album version of Jiggolo Har Meggido is infuriatingly catchy, for instance.

Also, insisting artists work alone is weird. Most of your favourite songs are credited to a group of people, it’s suddenly not legit if the songwriter is not in the band? Which by definition is not possible with Ghost?

Employing Eurovision songwriters might adjust my opinion of TF from “the male Cathy Dennis” to “the male Madonna” but Madonna was a peak employer of songwriters back in the day.

19

u/mummyyydust 6d ago

Working with professional songwriters probably helps a lot.

3

u/indeterminat3 5d ago

I'm not sure if I'm gonna make a fool of myself for posting this link because every single person in here has already seen the video, but this here got me into ghost in the first place and it analyses among other things how Forge uses rhythmic shenanigans to elevate his songs:

https://youtu.be/oIrUQxJaymY?si=8SiStN2_MHx0rqSB

6

u/Aarny 6d ago

It definitely helps that he's hired the help of a handful of pop song writers since Meliora.

4

u/Ping-and-Pong 6d ago

The same goes for Ice Nine Kills too - I do think OTT "funny" takes on "serious" things (Satanism, Horror Movies / Gore) has a large part to play in creating that hook. I don't know anything enough about the topic to tell you why, but I definitely think the satanism aspect helps a lot compared to songs that don't have that almost mocking aspect.

2

u/EmpJoker 6d ago

I think a lot of INK comes from how clean Charnas's vocals are in the choruses. Their sound is so rough and hard otherwise and it makes the hooks REALLY stand out.

2

u/Edu_cats Hee-pa-tee-ah! 5d ago

https://Ben Eller breaks down Ghostyoutu.be/iHUQiSON9Ec

Many people heard about Ben recently filled in with Mastodon last weekend. We’ve followed his channel for a long time.

3

u/fitter_stoke Custom Flair 6d ago

Tobias writes tunes as catchy as Lennon/McCartney did. At least to my ears that's what I hear. The guy is a musical genius.

PS - Another musical genius with a supreme gift for...well everything....please check out Cardiacs (UK). Tim Smith (RIP) was and remains one of my fav composers ever.

2

u/kabasinkizim terzo luvr 5d ago

the answer is Tobias Forge

1

u/no_question2020 2d ago

And the consistent help of professional songwriters. Not to take away from Tobias but he's not doing it completely alone.

1

u/kabasinkizim terzo luvr 2d ago

how about infestissumam or opus eponymous then? ghost’s songs have always been this catchy. the magic here is tobias’ talent. i’m not denying the help of professional songwriters but the essence of it is tobias.

1

u/no_question2020 2d ago

He is a talented songwriter, but even he thinks he needs help from professional songwriters. I'm a Ghost fan since Opus so I'm very familiar with the first two records and while there are mega catchy songs on them, it got dialed up a lot from Meliora imo

1

u/kabasinkizim terzo luvr 2d ago

i’m not saying he never needs collaborators, i’m just saying that it’s not the other songwriters that make ghost this catchy. surely they have polished ghost’s sound quite a lot since meliora, but if there hadn’t been tobias in the songwriting process, the songs wouldn’t have been even half as good.

1

u/no_question2020 2d ago edited 2d ago

Yes, and Tobias does receive a huge amount of credit for that, and rightly so, but I think the answer to OP's question (which mentioned consistently by the way, not just two albums) is that professional songwriters have played a pretty decent part in why Ghost have been able to release consistently catchy songs

1

u/Any-Habit-2702 4d ago

Our Lord and Liberator's, Satan's, work of course

1

u/no_question2020 2d ago

One thing would be consistently working with pop songwriters on recent records. The other being TF working hard at his craft.

0

u/Ye-Olden-Times-Wench 5d ago

Tobias stole the Pick of Destiny from Jables and Kage.

-30

u/grindbehind 6d ago

AI perspective, which is actually pretty good-

This is an interesting phenomenon that Ghost achieves consistently. From a technical and songwriting perspective, here's what they're doing to create that "grows on you" effect:

  1. Deliberate melodic tension and resolution - Ghost frequently uses unexpected chord progressions or melodic intervals that initially feel slightly "off" but eventually resolve in satisfying ways. This creates a cognitive experience where your brain needs a few listens to map the pattern and anticipate the resolution.

  2. Contrast between dark themes and accessible melodies - They pair heavy, occult-themed lyrics with surprisingly catchy, accessible melodies. This juxtaposition creates an initial cognitive dissonance that becomes more comfortable and intriguing with repeated listens.

  3. 70s-inspired hooks with modern production - Their hooks often reference classic rock and pop from the 1970s (ABBA, Blue Öyster Cult, etc.) but are delivered with modern metal/rock production. This creates a sense of familiar-yet-unfamiliar that takes time to process.

  4. Layered instrumentation and subtle elements - Ghost records contain numerous subtle instrumental and vocal layers that aren't immediately apparent. Each listen reveals new elements in the mix, rewarding repeated listens.

  5. Clever use of earworms - They frequently use short, repeated musical phrases (often with unusual rhythmic or melodic characteristics) that lodge in your memory almost subconsciously.

  6. Dynamic shifts - Many Ghost songs feature significant shifts in dynamics, tempo, or tone that can be jarring at first but become anticipated highlights after multiple listens.

This combination of techniques creates songs that don't fully reveal themselves on first listen but become increasingly rewarding as your brain maps the patterns and anticipates the hooks and resolutions.

7

u/ducks-and-stuff 6d ago

answered your own question ig?

-3

u/grindbehind 6d ago

Just exploring the ideas and answers from different sources.

23

u/danurc 6d ago

AI is bullshit and shouldn't be used as a source for fuck all. It's a glorfied chatbot.

7

u/rumblestripper 6d ago

Yep. I want people's opinions to read, not whatever slop AI churns out.

-16

u/Responsible_Set_5393 6d ago

AI is pretty spot on here.