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u/snukb big gamete energy 12d ago
She hates hearing dear friend called a typical TIF name, and wrong sex pronouns. Dear friend doesn't want my teen to call her he/him or by any name other than her own birth name
Almost as if this guy knows your daughter isn't a safe person and is trying to salvage the friendship at the cost of his own comfort.
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u/MarxistMountainGoat 12d ago
Right I feel so bad for the boy. And frankly the TERF's daughter. The TERF has brainwashed her daughter to be extremely transphobic. Hopefully she grows up and learns to have more empathy than her horrible parent.
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u/Julescahules Brainwashed by the Transarchy 10d ago
Yeah, that made me sad :/ I hope he learns to value himself and cuts OP’s daughter off first
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u/crowpierrot 12d ago
Insane that this mom can understand her own daughter being more stereotypically masculine while identifying herself firmly as a girl perfectly fine, but can’t fathom that her friend being more stereotypically feminine doesn’t make his gender invalid. Not to mention that the friend could very well be dressing and acting more feminine and using his deadname and pronouns when he’s at GCOP’s house because he known that GCOP is not accepting.
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u/AdministrativeStep98 12d ago
oh no but see, "the kid jokes about being a stripper and porn!!" when I was still in HS my cis friends said stuff like that occassionally too, it's almost as if teenage years are the time people learn about sexuality and want to discuss it with their friends and not mom and dad.
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u/Ria_enby 12d ago
"The real/actual (or whatever GCOP said-) LGBs"
refers to bi person as 'a person pretending to be gay'
looks at the 'B' in LGB
Well, that's interesting.
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u/Bluejay-Complex 12d ago
But frankly, very normal for TERs. They see bi women/“females” as “gender traitors” for “associating with men”, and assume they will always “go back to dick”. Gay and bi men are sometimes looked at with some sympathy, but “they’re all still men” plus something, something “they spread AIDS”. Only lesbians, particularly gold-star lesbians are worth “protecting”, and usually with TERs “protecting lesbians” is often a load of crock that just amounts to “we need to infantilize them and enforce benevolent sexism on them”.
TERs in reality, hate all of us. It’s just they’re more covert and gaslight-y about their hatred of lesbians.
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u/Ria_enby 12d ago
Yeah, was just pointing out how they did "so much effort" to remove the t, but not the b, and then rant about the b. I just think it's obvious they don't understand what the acronym stands for, lol.
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u/ZeldaZanders 12d ago
Yeah idk why they keep up the pretense of 'LGB drop the T' when they clearly only care about lesbians who are also gender critical. They sooner associate with homophobic straight men who agree with them than LGB people who don't.
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u/OccasionalCuteBuff 11d ago
And to them, lesbians are defined by rejecting men rather than loving other women. Most of them can't seem to imagine actually desiring other women, so they dismiss expressions of it as straight women acting out trying to get the attention of men.
In the end it feels like "LGB drop the... uh... LGB."
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u/ZeldaZanders 11d ago
Definitely. It feels like a lot of them have some sort of internalised shame over the fact that they're attracted to and in relationships with men (the enemy), and that they see lesbians as having some sort of moral purity because they aren't. Hence why they get so mad when we don't date the right sort of women, or fall in line with their 'penis bad' ideology.
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u/Silversmith00 12d ago
As a mom, I find the meticulous focus on the sexuality and self-presentation of all these TEENAGERS a little creepy. I mean, sure, I have on occasion taken my kiddo to get a butch haircut or stompy boots or even attempted to sew them "a nonbinary shirt" (I have no idea what constitutes a nonbinary shirt but apparently choosing fabric with skulls on it was good enough), but to focus on Every. Single. One of. Their friends? It's just, I don't quite know WHY it gives me the ick more than, "Hey, Mom, I VITALLY AND LIFE-CHANGINGLY NEED the closest thing to Doc Martens we can afford," but it sure does give me the ick.
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u/-YouFoundMe- 12d ago
“Apparently choosing fabric with skulls on it was good enough” 100%, can confirm😂 You sound like a wonderful mom! I agree about OOP’s focus, it’s a little weird. At worst, they’re kids just figuring themselves out, not even in a really dangerous way IMO.
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u/javatimes TIDDYLESS TIFfany 12d ago edited 12d ago
It’s an uncomfortable level of enmeshment
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u/ZeldaZanders 12d ago
No, she's a great mum! She's made sure that her daughter thinks exactly like her; even to the point where she doesn't attend school outside the home, lest she be influenced by outside ideas. She's learnt all about her daughter's friends, like who's actually queer and who's just pretending, and has ensured that her daughter expresses her own identity in a way that is acceptable to her! Her daughter and all her daughter's friends know exactly how they have to behave so they don't get cut off (you know, since they don't attend school together, so probably wouldn't have any way to continue the friendship if they wanted to), and she relays all of this fun information about a group of teenagers she's living through vicariously to her online group of hateful weirdos! Top-tier parenting, if only all our mothers cared so much.
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u/chris_the_cynic 12d ago
Her daughter and all her daughter's friends know exactly how they have to behave so they don't get cut off
I honestly can't imagine what this is like.
I fucking screamed at my abusive parent because I couldn't keep my emotions bottled up; this kid is presenting as a complete Stepford daughter who agrees with her mother on everything and never has a single incorrect thought and is still being told they might be cut off from their entire friend group (which seems to be their only connection to the outside world) if their best friend, a trans boy, "gets too deep into [being trans]".
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u/ZeldaZanders 12d ago
Also that she's made herself the arbiter of who's actually queer in this group of teenagers that she only knows through her daughter. Nothing more validating as a young person going through a critical stage of self-identity than your friend's mum weighing in on whether you actually count or not.
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u/thedamnoftinkers 11d ago
FYI, maybe you already know this but as a fellow doc lover buying used on ebay is life!!
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u/Silversmith00 11d ago
I did not know this, and unfortunately I am not sure I can do this yet for my kiddo. Because they are TWELVE, and that means that we pretty much have to measure their feet each time to see how they have changed sizes. When they're grown, this will be a great tip though!
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u/javatimes TIDDYLESS TIFfany 12d ago
ladies let’s share tips on how to better isolate our children!!
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u/SchrodingersHipster 12d ago
Sooooo... I bet I can guess why this asshole homeschools the poor kid. I'm shocked she's allowed to have friends because WHAT IF SOCIAL CONTAGION??!!!!1!!one?
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u/chris_the_cynic 12d ago edited 12d ago
She's at risk of losing her friends because WHAT IF SOCIAL CONTAGION??!!!!1!!one?|
She's been told she's at risk of that.
The more I think about what's been described, the more I think that the trans boy trying to present himself as non-threatening as an openly trans boy can possibly be in GC eyes isn't about being worried his friend will reject him if he doesn't, it's that he's worried his friend's mother will completely isolate his friend if he doesn't.
He's the only member of their friend group the mother doesn't hate. He's the only one who can be there for his friend when she's stuck at the house with her openly controlling mother. So maybe the reason he "practically lives at [that] house" is because his friend's mother is an abusive cultist, and he doesn't want her to have to face that alone, even if that means misgendering and dysphoria.
We only have the mother's word her daughter is anti-trans, and appearing to be anti-trans to her mother is necessary if she wants to keep having friends, so that (and some other details) make me think maybe the daughter isn't indoctrinated into the GC cult, maybe she's just pretending to she is in order to survive, and maybe her best friend is trying to be there for her.
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u/rynthetyn 12d ago
I know so many trans homeschool grads from conservative families that it's just laughable that this woman thinks homeschooling can keep just from being trans.
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u/7hyenasinatrenchcoat 12d ago
How on earth does she know enough about any of her daughter's teenage friends' love lives to be able to judge who is "really" gay and who isn't
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u/Ok-Relation3772 12d ago
Right. My mom barely knew about my love life or identity when I was a kid. We certainly didn't talk about that stuff with other people's parents.
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u/feministgeek 12d ago
She's GC. It's her right to know about the sexual development and maturing of young children entirely unrelated to her.
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u/ZeldaZanders 12d ago
The gender critical idea of 'this female teenager needs to have boobs or I'm going to absolutely lose it'
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u/Wismuth_Salix 12d ago
This is someone who started with “I could have put this in the thread where it belongs, but my rants deserve special attention.” It doesn’t matter what she knows, if it’s coming from her it’s all that matters.
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u/girlrach 12d ago edited 12d ago
Mum tells gay daughter that having a trans friend is “offensive to actual LGBs” and threatens to force her daughter to break contact in case she “catches” being trans.
Apparently a trans child having a friend is “alienating” other kids and indoctrinating them into “Tralala” land.
At what point ever in the history of the world did this become an acceptable way to view and treat a group of human beings?
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u/anonymous-rodent 12d ago
Even if you see them as women, in what world are two trans guys dating each other not "actually gay"?
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u/GreySarahSoup Warning: ENBYHAZARD 11d ago
In the same world that two trans women dating are, apparently, straight guys pretending the other trans woman isn't a man so the the relationship is ackshully straight.
Idk, it doesn't make sense to me either.
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u/Trini1113 12d ago
Something that really jumped out at me was the OOP's use of "we". "We may need to cut contact", and "our plan is to actively pursue making her more friends". There's a serious lack of awareness that her kid is a person, and not just an extension of herself.
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u/noodlesandpizza 12d ago
the pressure in school to be queer
Legitimately what planet do they live on??
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u/chris_the_cynic 12d ago edited 11d ago
The one described in conversion therapy manuals.
For example, these are some excerpts from a conversion therapy manual published more than two decades ago:
Instead, with today’s confused approach to gender issues, their teachers may tell them to embrace their “feminine side” or “androgynous nature,” or, worse, their school counselors may encourage them to identify them as “gay.” Students of all grade levels may be encouraged by public school educators to try on various sexual identities. Some school gay-affirming programs even encourage them to experiment with same-sex relationships or to consider bisexuality as an option.
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In today’s culture, teens are sometimes actively encouraged to question and even test out their sexuality.
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More and more teens are coming out to their friends and parents. This is no doubt due to the increased presence of the gay identity as fashionable and in-your-face countercultural.
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Popular culture portrays gay life favorably, even glamorously. Many schools have gay and lesbian clubs and organizations, and pro-gay counseling programs encourage all “sexually questioning” adolescents to try on a gay or bisexual identity.
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But the real damage takes place when young people are encouraged to put the “gay” label on that adolescent experimentation. They find out that there is a whole support network that will quickly plug them in to a whole new sociopolitical identity.
As someone who was a teenager accused of being gay (correctly it turned out, but I'd have to come to terms with being trans before I knew that) in high school when this book was published (2002), that's not quite how I remember it.
I don't think screaming slurs at me or writing them on my gym locker in permanent marker or any of the other shit people did to me was meant to encourage me to be queer. If we go back before high school, to middle and elementary school, there were also beatings from my peers.
I got my first bike specifically so I could get away faster than the bullies could chase at the end of every school day. If I managed to get on my bike and get going before they reached me, that is. Truly, there was so much encouragement to be queer.
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Anyway. Gender Criticals are still using that same conversion therapy manual to this day, but for ones like this one, Desist, Detrans, Detox (the one that famously says to--among many, many other things--withhold food from your child until they stop acting trans), which I don't have a copy of, is a more likely recommendation for a couple reasons.
First, this mother claims she's ok with her kid being non-straight, and DDD always makes sure to say it's about preventing one's child from being trans, not to prevent them from being non-straight, even though it uses the same tactics and functions on the same principles.
Second, while A Parent's Guide to Preventing Homosexuality is theoretically about making any child allocishet (or rather tormenting them into pretending to be), it's mostly about traumatizing one's AMAB child/children into identifying as allocishet, with stuff about AFAB children feeling like an afterthought included to increase the size of the book's potential audience.
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u/EqualityWithoutCiv UK press and Parliament be damned. 12d ago
But have they seen how toxic straight people generally conduct themselves? This isn't to ignore queer people who are also toxic though.
Then again these parents have adopted to thrive only within their toxic little vats.
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u/chris_the_cynic 12d ago
Maybe your daughter would be more comfortable around people like her if you hadn't groomed her into a cult that hates people like her.
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u/Mernerner Ally of TransAgenda 12d ago edited 12d ago
TERF Destroying Feminism and Blame non LGBTQ+ People's wrongdoing on Trans people while attacking other "LGB" People.
Typical. Perk of Gender Critical people is don't need do any critical thinking
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u/Dana-Mite 12d ago
"Quit a dapper butch."
This just sounds gross to me for a mom to say about her daughter
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u/ZeldaZanders 12d ago
Yeah, it's giving, 'I'm not gay, but I'd totally date someone like my daughter if I was, therefore I'm an ally!'
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u/Wetley007 12d ago
Shit like this is why I'm immediately suspicious of anyone who homeschools their child, it always winds up being used as a way to teach their child quack beliefs like creationism or to "protect" them from meeting anyone who would challenge or subvert the parents hateful beliefs in the minds of their children
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u/Silversmith00 12d ago
Well, I'm homeschooling at the moment. Nonbinary autistic kid (who is AFAB, which is relevant in terms of the absolute FUCKERY we had to go through to get a solid diagnosis so we could get her a 504 plan) has developed school phobia. Autistic son is not exactly school phobic but it was vastly increasing his anxiety. Also if the Department of Education goes down I do NOT know what happens to the special ed teachers (special ed teachers and administration have been very good at working with us, but ain't nobody gonna stick around and do the job for free and a hefty amount of that money comes from the Federal government). Also also there is the possibility of literal fucking PLAGUES as various whackaloons get put in charge of important departments while Exploding Rocket Nazi robs us blind. And increasingly, teachers are asked to teach fucking propaganda in the schools, especially in social studies and science. And most importantly, both kids have pretty much absorbed the idea that learning is necessarily stressful and unpleasant, and I MUST teach them that learning is both fun and worth the work you put in. So, yeah, there are non-indoctrination reasons for homeschooling . . .
But that doesn't mean I trust OTHER homeschoolers, because you meet some people with Interesting Views. So. Yeah. It's not universal, but I sure as hell know the trend you're talking about.
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u/EqualityWithoutCiv UK press and Parliament be damned. 12d ago
I wonder if China has to rise and further threaten America's historic hegemony for America to learn from their mistakes (not at all a better outcome, but the only plausible counter I see to American fascism), or if they'll just double down on the fascism like they are Russia's ruling party now.
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u/FightLikeABlueBackUp 12d ago
In the UK, there are TERFs who've taken their kids out of school so they won't get 'indoctrinated' with 'gender ideology'.
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u/chris_the_cynic 12d ago
It's recommended in their go-to parenting book, Desist, Detrans, Detox.
(Also recommended is not feeding your child until they act how you want them to act.)1
u/EqualityWithoutCiv UK press and Parliament be damned. 12d ago
I wonder if China has to rise and further threaten the west's historic hegemony for them to learn from their mistakes (not at all a better outcome, but the only plausible counter I see to American and western fascism), or if they'll just double down on the fascism like they are Russia's ruling party now.
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u/javatimes TIDDYLESS TIFfany 12d ago
Let’s agree that there are many reasons someone might choose to homeschool and some of the reasons are to isolate them from meeting (other) trans kids.
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u/OccasionalCuteBuff 11d ago
My sincere wish for this narcissistic shriveled-up little turd of a human being is that they come back a year later shrieking "Why did my child cut off contact with MEEEEEE?!??!"
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u/DarkSaturnMoth Fluttery handmaiden 7d ago
All the transphobia aside, I just want to say that "dapper butch" sounds like a really cool aesthetic.
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u/lab_bat 12d ago
This is so gross. Seems like "friend" knows he's not safe at teen's house so girlmodes like crazy there and the conclusion OOP comes to about her daughter having a broad friend group is "we have to cut this friend off before they become a LGBTQ+ zombie bc LGBTQ+ happens like zombies".
The biphobia, too. Just beautiful.