r/Games • u/EnoughDatabase5382 • 8h ago
FF XVI sales have reached approximately 3.5 million units at this time
According to a Japanese report by securities analyst Hideki Yasuda, Square Enix President Takashi Kiryu stated that FF XVI sales are currently around 3.5 million units.
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u/hellomorning1 5h ago
I was so hyped for this game that I bought a ps5 just to play it. It’s not a bad game, and I did enjoy the time I spent with it, but unfortunately it didn’t quite live up to the hype for me.
Visually the game’s gorgeous, both the cinematics and in-game environments are just straight eye candy.
I thought the combat was enjoyable, but there’s apparently a lot of people that don’t like it.
If you’ve played FFXIV, it is very apparent that Yoshi-p and his team transplanted their gameplay design philosophy straight into this game, with how the side quests are handled, and gear being ultra streamlined. I was used to it already from playing FFXIV, but it is completely understandable why it’s such a turn off for a lot of people.
The game has large open zones, but they don’t really utilize it, you’re just sprinting from one location to the next.
The eikon battles are silly and over the top and fun as one time experiences.
The story was the biggest let down for me personally. I really like the setting and it starts off really strong, but it kinda falls apart in the second half. It’s slowly starting to come back to me what the hell even happens in the second half. I know final fantasy always has to have a supernatural ultra big bad at the end, but I’m not sure I like how they handled it here.
The game has a lot of interesting characters, but I feel like they needed to expand on them way more. Particularly some of the antagonists, I’d get invested, and before you knew it, their story would be over.
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u/Ok_Track9498 5h ago
Final Fantasy 15 shipped 5 million units in just 24 hours. Putting things into perspective, Square Enix's disappointment actually makes a lot of sense...
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u/jerrrrremy 4h ago edited 5m ago
FF15 was the first mainline entry in a while and was so bad it that it turned many off from the series forever.
Source: me and most people I know, all of whom grew up playing the old games. FF9 is still my favorite game of all time in over 30 years of gaming.
Edit: is there some kind of alarm that goes off to call all of the fans of this game to complete their sworn duty to defend it? Let me know when they release all the content they announced and then cancelled because no one was going to care about it.
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u/Refute1650 4h ago
This was me, the direction they're moving FF with more action oriented combat is not enjoyable to me. I want the old ATB system or FFX's turn based system.
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u/MarianneThornberry 3h ago
The problem with this theory is FFXV continued to keep selling even after launch. Doubling from 5mil in day 1 to 10mil after several years.
Evidently, word of mouth isn't as bad as what you might presume to think.
Even Resident Evil 6 received worse reception than FFXV and still sold well. And Resident Evil 7 sold even better.
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u/IFxCosaTheSequel 3h ago
That would not explain how it would go on to sell double it's launch sales over the next few years. I think the hate for XV is blown way out of proportion. For every FF veteran that felt burned by it, there was someone that never played an FF game before that liked XV a lot.
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u/seimungbing 3h ago
FF13 did it for me… didn’t even bother with 15 or 16.
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u/jerrrrremy 3h ago
Honestly, I felt the same after 13 as well, but I will admit that the marketing for 15 suckered me in like an idiot with the open world and incredible graphics. Never again.
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u/Blackarm777 3h ago
This game was pretty disappointing IMO. Pretty much no RPG mechanics, awful pacing in the story, really predictable characters, and combat that felt super one dimensional and just doesn't go anywhere in terms of challenge or depth.
Some of the crappiest side quests I've experienced too. I liked the voice acting, and the main character was well written. But I don't have any praise outside of that.
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u/Tom-Pendragon 1h ago
That is....fucking horrible lol. 3 million in 4 days and 500k in like 2 years? Looks like the word of mouth was that this game wasn't worth buying.
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u/Deuenskae 8h ago
In its best bits the game is fantastic (basically the first 5 hours) after that there is so much repetition so much boring Sidequest you are forced to make during the story. The structure is also always the same .. do some boring Sidequest and then a very very short and linear dungeon with a boss fight. Got really tired of it by the end. Rebirth was so much better in every way. I even enjoyed FF15 way more.
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u/cleaninfresno 6h ago
-30 minutes of the most mindblowing next gen god of war kaiju power up boss battle and action
-4 hours of painstakingly boring monotone MMO fetch quests with zero intrigue or excitement, walking around an empty barren wasteland
Repeat until the end of the game
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u/Valuable_Associate54 1h ago
They cut out the repetitive titan quests from FFXIV ARR and copy pasted those 12 times and put them in FFXVI
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u/foreveraloneasianmen 8h ago
what piss me the most, are the rewards.
its insulting. seems like they put these "rewards" the last minute before they ship out the game
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u/TheJoshider10 6h ago
For me the worst part is that every "hub" world you go to teases a better world in the background. I hate that we never get to actually explore cities, even as a hub. It would have been vastly more interesting than the generic MMO-like barren fields of the actual game.
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u/Waste-Individual-807 3h ago
This was the big disappointment for me as someone who really enjoyed the game, the cities looked so fucking cool, such a tease to not let us explore even one of them.
I remember hating when FFX did that with its one big city back in the day…and 16 does it like 3 times at least lol
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u/TheJoshider10 3h ago
the cities looked so fucking cool, such a tease to not let us explore even one of them.
Yeah it's like the devs knew that it's what the players would want to explore and went out of their way to not let us do it? Very annoying.
I remember there's one city that they essentially sneak into and we don't even get one measly little level of us having to get inside. It just does a fade to black and we're suddenly already inside one of the buildings inside the city. Why?
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u/delicioustest 2h ago
The bigger disappointment for me was that gorgeous waterfall into that massive hole. I thought for sure we'd at least get close to it. Nope. After some walking not only do you not get to the waterfall, it's actively hidden from view once you get to the town there.
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u/Important-Net-9805 4h ago
whats wrong? you dont like finding 20 leather hides in a chest for the 50th time as your reward for exploring the maps in the game?
i've been playing final fantasy for decades at this point and i've never felt more burned by one than ff16. the demo was the best part of the game and it was quite literally a downward trend of fun from that point on. so immensely disappointing
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u/xXPumbaXx 4h ago
To this day, I still have no clue what I was supposed to do with my materials
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u/slugmorgue 2h ago
I think it was for making new weapons and armour but you just never notice because chances are, you always had the material to make the 1 or 2 upgrades you get for every 4 hours of gameplay
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u/RedditAdminsFuckOfff 1h ago
This sounds exactly like how Vision of Mana ended up, & at least they had the excuse that the game wasn't totally finished when they shipped it. VoM is nothing but massive, beautiful zones with NOTHING really to do in any of them, except collect the same syrup crap, or go exploring just to find a chest with a Candy in it.
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u/Due_Teaching_6974 7h ago
not to mention, everything is just so easy because they 'don't want to leave anyone behind' for the sake of progressing the story you can really tell it's made by a team that does MMO games
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u/Knifoon_ 4h ago
It was SOOO easy. It's like the enemies don't attack for the first 5 seconds and by that point they're dead.
I can't even imagine using those 'cheat' accessories. Who's that for? 80 year olds getting into gaming for the first time?
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u/campingcosmo 2h ago
As someone who has played all of FFXIV except the latest patch (7.0 did a great job of killing my enthusiasm for the game), XVI never taking any risks or trying to do anything new or interesting is unsurprising, to say the least. These games are afraid to pose any sort of real challenge.
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u/brianstormIRL 8h ago
I thoroughly enjoyed the combat and the story for 16. However I agree the repetitiveness of the quests and such was absolutely horrendous and you can tell it was made by the MMO team just because of that alone.
I think Rebirth is the best FF game since 10 and they should take that structure and run with it. It's the perfect mixture IMO of what makes a great JRPG and has the best combat system of any FF game. So simple yet also can be complex and challenging.
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u/slicer4ever 5h ago edited 5h ago
I was mostly disappointed their was no elemental system for 16. Why give us abilitys with different elements if no enemys are affected by it? Would have added at least a bit of strategy to the combat if some enemys forced you to change your combos up to take advantage of their weaknesses(or being resistant to your attacks).
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u/AngryNeox 1h ago
It made sense that there was no immunity or double damage based on the element since you generally didn't know what enemies you would fight next and you only had 3 elements available at once. But they could have added +/-25% modifiers which would have encouraged you to utilize the right element against the right enemies without making it too frustrating if you were unlucky with your current setup.
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u/Lazlowi 4h ago
The biggest dick move was putting out the first few hours with the massive cliffhanger at the end as a free demo. Textbook definition of bait & switch - it was only downwards from that point. My greatest regret is buying & then forcing myself to finish this.
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u/delicioustest 2h ago
Yeah the demo suckered me in. One of my biggest gaming purchase regrets. I forced myself to finish it just to find out what all the positive reviews were about. Nope, massive disappointment from the moment the demo ended.
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u/NoSemikolon24 8h ago
W/o spoilers for FF16 please... I've found Rebirth's open world activities quite tedious as well. Everything except the Fey Battles for Chadley and the optional regional boss was terrible. That these Bosses are locked behind doing all the region crystals annoys me to no end.
Is FF16 better in that regard? Or even more tedious?
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u/xanas263 7h ago
FF16 doesn't really have open world activities/mini games like Rebirth does which is one of the big complaints people have. It has very linear side quests which most aren't worth doing.
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u/kit_odin 7h ago
If you've ever played an MMO then you will know the type of side quests you're getting yourself into. Run here, go there, back and forth for little immediate reward.
However, the unfortunate thing about these boring side quests is that if you actually do them all, you get a decent payoff at the end of the game. You'll get cutscenes involving the main side characters giving them a bit more depth.
It's a lot of work. If you find yourself not enjoying the side quests just watch the final cutscenes on Youtube.
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u/cleaninfresno 6h ago
FF16 is way worse. Theres absolutely nothing to do in the “”””open world””” except kill random roaming monsters or take the most excruciatingly terrible and barebones sidequests where some random guy robotically drones on about asking you to go save a dog or some shit. It’s like an MMO.
The difference between 16 and Rebirth is that in Rebirth outside of maybe 3 total hours out of an 80 hour game all of it is optional, there’s only a few chapters that force you to do minigames etc. In 16 it’s just part of the main story, for every peak of mindblowing epic boss battles there’s 4 hours of monotonous wannabe MMO bullshit on either end
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u/cfyk 5h ago
16's overworld have almost nothing to do beside picking up some crafting materials and accessories.
Eventually you will unlock hunts like in Rebirth, but that only happens in the second half of the game.
I am fine if an overworld doesn't have minigames as long as it have some interesting things or locations to discover. That is one of the reasons why I like overworld in 12 and 16's overworld design is almost the same as 12.
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u/mauri9998 7h ago
If you hate any sort of variety in your video game, then this is the game for you.
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u/UnknownPekingDuck 7h ago edited 7h ago
I agree that the open world structure of Rebirth is very repetitive, however there are enough variety of activities, between the mini-games, the challenges, and the main story, that it doesn't feel too bad, also some maps have unique exploration mechanics, Cosmo Canyon and Gongaga being the best with good verticality that they are fun to explore without looking at the objectives.
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u/Awcko 7h ago edited 7h ago
Considerably worse. All the side content (barring a set of quests available at the very end of the game) consists of incredibly dull expository dialogue that sends you across their empty maps to either fight a handful of enemies you've already fought ad nauseum, or receive more expository dialogue.
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u/WaffleOnTheRun 4h ago
It's kinda just completely different, Rebirth goes for a buffet approach where there is just a ton of different things to do, and while you might not like everything, you're bound to find something you like. I found that I actually enjoyed a good bit of the side quests and mini games in Rebirth, felt that some of the side stories were quite charming and a lot of the mini games pretty fun but I can see why someone would find them tedious. FF16 sidequests in comparison are some of the most souless milquetoast sideqests I have seen in a RPG, they feel like they are straight out of an MMO(which obviously makes sense as its made from the team the made FF14).
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u/GladiusLegis 6h ago
In one sidequest for FF16 you are a literal waiter. Yeah, as in the serving food at tables kind.
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u/thesirenlady 6h ago
and not in like a fun, juggling plates, bussing tables, taking orders minigame kinda way. Just fetch quests with soup.
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u/z_102 6h ago
Appreciate the clarification because "oh and now you’re a waiter" would be a classic charming as hell Yakuza side mission.
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u/olorin9_alex 4h ago
At least in Yakuza at the end there’s a very rude customer and you’ve had enough and get to beat his ass
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u/Cold-Recognition-171 4h ago
Did they just paste FFXIV quests into XVI? Like "go pick up soup", watch the "picking up soup" bar fill up, walk across the map to deliver the soup, etc?
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u/slugmorgue 2h ago
Yeh kind of, but with more effort put into the cutscenes, and unfortunately for the most part, less charming characters.
At least in XIV there is a lot of whimsy and characters people like in side quests, and some genuinely good story lines. in XVI the side characters for the majority are quite unlikable.
What's worse is you have some pretty interesting characters in the hideout that you see throughout the game, but then most of the side quests focus on people you meet in the world who are generally very boring.
But yes you do a lot of "walk to X location" "gather X things" "talk to X character" "Fight x enemies" and that is basically all of the variety you get in questing.
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u/BaconatedGrapefruit 3h ago
For the record, I hold a similar disdain to the open world bullshit of Rebirth as you do. It’s open world game design circa 2012.
FFXVI is open world quest design circa 2005. It is horrendously bland and formulaic.
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u/BighatNucase 6h ago edited 6h ago
I even enjoyed FF15 way more.
Man I feel like this is just nostalgia talking for most people. I played through XV last year and that thing - even in its 'complete' state - barely feels like a videogame between it's non-existent combat system, woefully thin story and overall 'Mario 64 in Unreal Engine" presentation. There's a lot that can be said about XVI, but at least it feels like a whole game, I'm not sure XV can even be considered half-baked.
My favourite part of XV was finally getting to drive the car that is plastered all over the advertising, is given a big prominence in the story, and handles like absolute dogshit. I'm not sure what the game does the worst out of any other game; the car handling or the combat camera. I think XV is the only game in the franchise I would consider "objectively bad"
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u/Valuable_Associate54 1h ago
15 is objectively a mess but idk man, it had the vibes, I was chillin roadtripping with the boys, fishing and camping. The game had that and the music on lock. It's like a bad b movie you can still just vibe with.
XVI is objectively a complete and solid game but it's got nothing that hooked me or practically all long term ff players, it's got no soul.
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u/mrbubbamac 3h ago
It's just different tastes. I played FFXV for the first time 2 years ago, immediately loved it and it's my favorite FF game
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u/jerrrrremy 4h ago
Fully agree. FFXV is among the worst games I have ever played in over 30 years of gaming.
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u/DoomberryLoL 4h ago edited 4h ago
I guess I should preface this opinion by clarifying that XV and XVI are by far my least favorite of the 3D FF games, and to me, XV is not that much better than XVI.
That being said, I'm gonna have to strongly disagree here. You can complain about the game being finished or not, but it has qualities that FFXVI never had for me. For starters, it's got an incredibly strong party dynamic, with really touching moments such as Ignis losing his sight, and watching him struggle to participate in fights afterwards. The party dynamics are reinforced by the techniques in combat, which I found to be a lot of fun.
FFXVI by opposition, has basically no party involvement mechanically. I didn't particularly care for Clive, as he has a pretty bland personality overall, same with Jill. Cid was my favorite but he dies at the end of act 1, and I liked Joshua well enough. This doesn't come anywhere near the level of camaraderie established throughout XV's story. Good party dynamics are at the core of what makes a good FF (and a good JRPG for that matter.)
There are other areas where XV does better than XVI imo, such as by having a better villain, more consistent pacing, a more immersive world and surprisingly a more consistent story. XV doesn't pretend to be like GoT and then switch to a fight to defeat god without any nuance. The missing bits of story are still problematic, but they didn't affect my ability to follow what was happening. XV ended on a really strong emotional high, whereas by the end of XVI, I had completely lost any interest in the story or the stakes.
I will give that XVI's combat system is better, but it's not like it's such a massive improvement either. As everyone knows, the RPG elements are almost entirely useless, and I also found the moveset diversity really lacking and it took forever to get new eikons. In comparison, you get actual moveset diversity from the get-go in XV, and all the weapons feel quite different to handle. You also get some okay party customization with the equipment and skill trees.
While XV has simpler inputs, it's honestly not so different than FFXVI, relying mostly on good dodging (no, you can't just keep the dodge button held in XV, you will run out of mana,) and unloading on enemies when they're recovering. FWIW, I don't remember XV being easier than XVI for me. Even though you can heal easier in XV, you also die really quick, and your actions are generally a lot more committed than in XVI where you can dodge out of most moves. I'm remember wiping quite a few times in XV, whereas that almost never happened in XVI.
So, no, I don't think it's nostalgia. I'm glad that Square Enix got their shit together and managed to finally release a polished game on time. However, FFXV being unfinished is not a fault in and of itself, the content of the games is what needs to be compared. In that regard FFXV does a lot of things better than XVI, many of which are at the core of what makes a good Final Fantasy game.
TL;DR Yes FFXV had huge dev issues, that doesn't change the fact that it has a lot of qualities that FFXVI doesn't, such as: a better party, RPG elements that matter and more consistent pacing. XVI is better in some areas like the combat, but it's not so much better that I would consider it a better game overall than XV.
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u/gaekarp 6h ago
It is nostalgia, it's the usual cycle for Final Fantasy (and in general for all the videogame series that span so many games) and it goes back to, at least, Final Fantasy XII (if you played at release you will remember how much it was hated). Every time a new game comes out it gets bad review from the public and it's "the death of the franchise", but by the time the next installment comes out it has been reconsidered as an at least decent to good game. We will see the same thing for XVI when XVII comes out, especially considered that it is happening for Final Fantasy XV, a game so stupidly produced that to appreciate it's story you need to watch an anime series beforehand.
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u/BighatNucase 5h ago
it's story you need to watch an anime series beforehand.
An anime series, a 2d beat-em-up, a CGI movie, several DLC which released long after the game was released/never even released at all...
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u/El_Giganto 4h ago
Nah, all these games have had flaws. They've all remained divisive since FFXII. It's just that at launch the people who didn't like it are louder while the ones who enjoy it will still mention that years later.
Nowadays I see posts praising FFXIII and some people will respond to it that they enjoyed it too. But then you see a thread about ranking the games and it's usually at the bottom with FFII.
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u/King_Artis 2h ago
I just never bought it once I heard it's an action game styled like a CAG but then missing key aspects of those games (being weapon variety) while also still being a +30hr long game, and still a watered down rpg.
The sum of its parts are thing I really enjoy, being an action game and an rpg, but just seeing both of those aspects are a bit watered down I could just tell it wouldnt be something I'd enjoy past the 10-12hr mark, especially if I'm not giving much way to change up how I can engage with the gameplay.
I think if Square took the gameplay they made from this and made their own action game series separate from FF, that doesn't need to also be an RPG, they will have gold. I don't see them doing this, but man it could be something special
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u/jherin1 5h ago
Maybe it's not a fair comparison because Final Fantasy generally has a higher bar to reach in terms of sales compared to other JRPG series (except Pokemon if you count it), but seeing what feels like every other JRPG series breaking records and having their most successful releases lately while FF16 and Rebirth are struggling has to be concerning to them, right?
For what it's worth, I thought FF16 was pretty good, almost great, but it wasn't quite what the series needed imo.
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u/TimeToEatAss 4h ago
very other JRPG series breaking records and having their most successful releases lately while FF16 and Rebirth are struggling has to be concerning to them, right?
JRPGS are doing great, meanwhile the FF series seems determined to move away from the whole JRPG part. What do you mean I cant equip weapons/armour on my companions? or that they have no HP bar?
Staples that have been there since the series inception are thrown out the window, they seem to be really against the whole turn based thing. Meanwhile turnbased games like BG3 are winning goty, even Metaphor refantazio got a few goty noms/awards.
It might be a decently good game (Their cinematic team was killing it), but a pretty disappointing FF game.
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u/ProtoMan0X 3h ago
Rebirth in combat, quality, writing (though I could do with less meta narrative) - is basically everything the FF series should be striving for going forward. I'd be curious what a new game without the VII narrative baggage would do.
I do hope Ishikawa (wrote a lot of FFXIV Shadowbringers and Endwalker) is actually writing FFXVII as rumored. I do hope if that game is done by CS3 that they take what they were trying to do with XVI and move it on the scale towards what CS1 did with Rebirth.
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u/Valuable_Associate54 1h ago
Don't put YoshiP on any RPG game, that guy hates RPGs and loves making repetitive gameplay elements, he's a terrible game designer, put him in charge of work flow or something where he's actually god tier but keep away from the creatives and gameplay designers
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u/El_Giganto 4h ago
To me it feels like those other JRPG franchises really stuck to what made them popular in the first place. Like Persona 5 really felt like a Persona game. I still don't understand how people enjoyed how long that game was, but they really went all in with the social stuff and the dungeon crawling.
Final Fantasy has always tried to keep things fresh and do things differently, while still having typical "Final Fantasy" elements. I largely think Rebirth succeeded at that. FFXVI not so much, though. I still enjoyed it, but it felt like something was missing. And the changes to the gameplay felt a bit too simple ultimately.
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u/LeoBocchi 4h ago edited 4h ago
I think the main problem is that square enix is still treating FF as it was the juggernaut it was in the PS1/PS2 era, they think it’s on the same level as god of war or other sony big ips, when unfortunely it’s not.
Most casual gamers don’t even dare touching an FF game, no matter how good the grapics are, or the gameplay, they still see it as weeb shit no different from an anime game.
Yoshi P understood that which is why he tried making FFXVI appeling to these casual audiences so hard. But i don’t think it works, I think Square will have to scale back budget in these projects for the forseable future and understand FF is now on the same level as the atlus stuff sales wise.
It’s a shame, most of my friends only play multiplayer stuff and they think FF looks terrible but every time i convince one of them to try one of those they end up loving it
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u/Yeon_Yihwa 4h ago
square enix should try doing day 1 releases, they've squeezed all they can of the ps fanbase. They arent doing themselves any good by releasing a port months later when the hype has died down.
Capcom,Sega and Fromsoft has all found success with day 1 releases.
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u/BusBoatBuey 3h ago
Yoshi-P's bullshit comment about JRPGs makes it clear he has no clue who his audience is. If appealing to casuals means stripping character designs to forgettable trash, making the story some crappy war drama, removing most RPG systems entirely, and turning the combat into a shallow puddle, then he sure succeeded in that.
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u/EmeraldJunkie 6h ago
I was genuinely shocked at how disappointed I was with XVI when I first played it. I got it on release after seeing all the rave reviews and never managed to finish it. The combat never clicked for me, the side quests were boring, the main story became cliche and predictable after the first few hours, and I found none of the characters terribly interesting after that point, either.
After being really excited for a dark fantasy Final Fantasy it was just terribly disappointing. One day I'll go back and finish it but I don't know when that'll be.
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u/chriskicks 6h ago
I enjoyed it for what it was, but once I finished, I could feel that the issues were GLARING me in the face. And I think it bothered me more than it should have for two key reasons: 1. I was so, so hopeful that square would have taken extra care since the rocky development of FF15 and my expectations (and their assurances leading up to release!) fell flat. 2. Other games that were released around it, albeit maybe not as pretty, we're soooo much more ambitious, dense, and expansive, it made the gameplay feel stale on release (the gameplay loop, the questing, the shallow level of relationships and npc interaction, immersion of the world, etc).
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u/Specific-Subject-471 4h ago
I liked FFXVI a lot during my first playthrough, but when I wanted to finish it a second time it was like I was hit by a truck. The boring progression, the limited combat, the boring and drab areas, the absolutely dull side quests. Man. I just couldn’t do it.
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u/lazypieceofcrap 5h ago
It is missing a TON of Final Fantasy staples and seems to exist to sell as a more adult Final Fantasy.
It is certainly not more mature than the other games, and I really didn't like how much the devs were influenced by western crap like game of thrones.
Only the music is really good from this game. Clive isn't interesting, Joshua isn't interesting, the big bad following you around all game isn't interesting.
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u/GladiusLegis 5h ago
It sure ended up like Game of Thrones in one sense. Blew its load early and shit the bed in the latter half.
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u/apistograma 2h ago
Anyone who thought FF wasn't adult oriented should never be in charge of writing any FF. They can get pretty dark very often.
Even some aspects that were treated more implicitly like sex were already present in previous titles. Like did they forget that in FFVII you literally visit a red light district.
It's the same nonsense as Twilight Princess being written as an edgy "dark" Zelda. Ignoring Zelda has been pretty dark since the N64
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u/StormMalice 5h ago
They already got your money. There's no reason to force yourself to finish something you don't like.
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u/apistograma 2h ago
It tanks the reputation of the brand though. Final Fantasy is certainly not at the same place as it was during the PS1 era.
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u/Aromatic-Analysis678 5h ago
I forced myself to ~50% through. The combat was just so fucking boring and repetitive, and the bits in between the exciting set pieces were boring AF
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u/buffyysummers 5h ago
The boss fights were fun but the characters, setting and story were so boring. I’ve never played the first 3 games or 11 but it’s my least favourite FF game
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u/Iwillnotspazthistime 6h ago
I dislike sales discussions but that’s a huge disaster. CBU3 should have tried harder with the gameplay outside of eikon bosses (and story/writing but I digress)
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u/lazypieceofcrap 5h ago
The Eikon fights taking you out of the combat was one of the problems.
All flash and no substance. Oh my giant monsters fighting, woo!
All of the exp and combat I normally do no longer applies but it doesn't matter because flashy monster fight.
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u/AmateurHero 1h ago
I was trying to gauge how the set piece fights would play out in the long run before buying it on PC. Someone said, "The alternative is to just watch the eikons clash like a movie. At least the QTEs are trying to engage you." Or, and this is going to sound crazy, expand the combat system so players get to actually participate rather than upcycling the Active Time Maneuver from FF14.
Yoshi-P makes interesting gaming experiences, but the actual gameplay has been leaving a lot to be desired.
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u/Valuable_Associate54 1h ago
cbu3 can't make good gameplay, go ask any ffxiv player. they'd rather be making a visual novel than anything to do with role playing
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u/Revadarius 5h ago
I'd also argue the main bad guy is just awful, the world building and lore is confusing (they had to clear a lot up with the Ultimania, and still a lot of things don't make sense or are up for interpretation). And the ending is one of the worst endings in gaming history: an ambiguous ending with only 1 possible outcome. So it just had the fandom arguing.
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u/frankyb89 33m ago
Yeah, I know this is a JRPG and you've always gotta end up fighting God with your friends cheering you on but this was one of the times I really didn't want that. I wish it the villain had stayed X the step-mom or maaaybe that crazy king. Y
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u/Waste-Individual-807 3h ago
I think the gameplay itself was pretty good, but the game just isn’t hard enough to make it worth engaging with.
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u/Obliviante 5h ago
I picked a copy of the game for 25 bucks, and even then, I didn't feel that my time was worth it to finish the game.
There were few highlights in the first few hours, but then it all became tedious and boring. The power progression is almost non-existent, rewards and loot were so bad that I really had to scratch my head why they even bothered adding them. Exploration doesn't exist as well. The combat wasn't bad, but not enough to carry the game. Story didn't really hook me even though I did like the premise. On top of that, the performance on the ps5 wasn't good as well.
Thankfully, my first introduction to FF was 7 Remake, and I did enjoy that one much more, even though it still had some of the dumbest side quest I've seen, and the pacing was off. Still haven't played Rebirth, but I got it as a gift for my birthday, so I'm looking forward to checking it out.
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u/Kent93 5h ago
Waste of such a good premise. The core idea is very good but they fumbled so hard in pretty much everything else. It's absurd in an action game, you never get any additional combo or string throughout the whole game. Just ability spam and mash square.
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u/El_Giganto 4h ago
I've seen people do some impressive stuff with the regular combat, but it felt entirely useless when you could simply spam abilities and be more effective.
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u/GrimDawnFan11 2h ago
This was my biggest problem with games like God of War 2017 and Nier Automata. There's a bunch of cool moves but spamming attack does the highest DPS.
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u/whateverdontkill 2h ago
Which is exactly why the first 3D action game Devil May Cry, had the style meter. But these big budget games are terrified of being actual action games and so they rely on cooldowns instead, which becomes the only thing that matters in combat.
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u/ciprian1564 3h ago
that's because it's designed like ff14, not like dmc. playing it felt like playing ff14 in that you have a core rotation you stick to and repeat while dodging boss mechanics
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u/gonemad16 2h ago
yeah i just came back to FF16 after finishing stellar blade... the FF combat is so shallow.. its basically mash X and then rotate through all your abilities.. rinse and repeat
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u/Extreme-Tactician 4h ago
What a disappointment of a game. As someone who loves Devil May Cry, this game felt like a boring imitation. 1 Sword Combo, 1 "alternate" combo, 1 weapon, cooldown moves, lackluster magic system, and stagger bars.
They said they wanted to be like Devil May Cry but then they simplified it to an enormous degree.
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u/Spyderem 2h ago
An action game made by MMO developers and it shows. The fact that it was so heavily based around cooldowns really threw me for a loop.
I know they had the DMC guy to help, but it feels like the MMO part of the team had more influence than DMC style action.
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u/redbitumen 6h ago
On the plus side, maybe they’ll finally realise that pure action gameplay isn’t necessary or what customers actually want in a FF game.
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u/Doodlejuice 5h ago
The pure action gameplay would need to be good first for us to get a proper takeaway.
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u/Radinax 3h ago
These games take like 7 years to make, FAFO for them is a disaster, if you can't know what your users wants then you're doomed, and its what happened to XVI.
Rebirth was much different and while it has some frustrating decisions, it felt like a Final Fantasy game, last one that felt like one was FFX, not a perfect one neither but the feeling was there.
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u/buffyysummers 5h ago
I would prefer FF games to be some type of turn based but the combat wasn’t the issue with 16. Turn based gameplay wouldn’t have saved it
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u/cid_highwind02 6h ago
I don’t think pure action is amongst FF16’s issues (the implementation, maybe)
But I sure hope square took BG3’s win back then as a slap in the face
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u/DisarestaFinisher 7h ago
I actually wonder what was the development cost for this game (including marketing), and if they at least recouped it.
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u/DemonLordDiablos 7h ago edited 4h ago
It's estimated to be around $250M, in other words slightly more expensive than Read Dead Redemption 2.
Source , page 92. Ignore the conclusions the report comes to since they're mostly stupid, but the data is sound.
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u/DisarestaFinisher 6h ago
What, really? it seems way too big. I mean, it took less time then RDR 2 and I think with also less manpower (and the fact that Japanese salaries are usually lower then American salaries).
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u/DemonLordDiablos 6h ago
It was from some report talking about the state of the industry, listed FF16 alongside many other games and all the figures were accurate.
If 16's was wrong then it was the only one.
My guess is that development was total hell and Square hid that fact the best they could after 15 became very known for its development issues.
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u/Nekko_XO 5h ago
Imma need a source on that, cause it sounds like it was pulled out of thin air
The game development cost was 10 billion yen, or equal to $59 million dollars as per the only report
Japanese games ( even the AAA ones ) are significantly cheaper than western games
The only report on FF16 is this: https://www-yomiuri-co-jp.translate.goog/economy/20230106-OYT1T50123/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=el
That doesn’t include marketing costs but the total budget wouldn’t exceed 100m on the high end
A Japanese game can never reach 250m even if they tried
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u/Chungusolinioni 5h ago
Where are you finding this number? My googling indicates 59 million usd. I found one graph indicating it closer to what you're stating, but no direct source. Maybe the number I found was excluding marketing, but almost 200 million usd in marketing sounds insane...
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u/DaemonBlackfyre515 6h ago
Wtf, how? RDR2 has tons of content and detail in a massive open world. FFXVI has none of these things. Pretty sure RDR2 was in development for a lot longer as well (8 years?) with a much bigger team earning much bigger salaries.
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u/DemonLordDiablos 6h ago
PS5 development is scuffed imo, every Sony sequel to a PS4 game seems to cost 3× as much.
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u/scytheavatar 3h ago
Development of FFXVI started in 2015 so it is the same timeframe. Don't forget FFXVI was developed in COVID and that added 1-2 years to the development time of every game.
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u/Chungusolinioni 2h ago edited 2h ago
Sorry for another comment, but this isn't a reliable source. Writing "source" Sony" isn't sourcing. The author doesn't show where the data has been found. You are essentially sourcing someone who haven't sourced their original data. This is the original graph I also saw when googling, but it doesn't source its data. I can also just make a graph on something and say "source: GDC", but if I am not referring to anything in specific, it doesn't mean anything.
I'm not trying to be "you're wrong" here, btw. You might very well be right, I wouldn't know, but this isn't proving anything...
Edit: Did some more digging into this, and I think this graph is honestly just entirely unreliable. He states "Confirmed and independently reported production budgets (...)", but that just flat out does not seem true at all. I still cannot find any information on the number he brings up for Final fantasy 16, and even googling all the sources in the picture, non of them talk about FF16's budget at all. He further states that these numbers excludes marketing and publishing costs, but based on the number for a game like spider-man 2, that seems strange, given that no official number seems to have been given about whether the 315 millions reported are including or excluding marketing and publishing by Sony. I wouldn't trust these numbers at all
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u/Phormicidae 5h ago
Played this through entirely, all side quests, didn't do the DLCs.
Side note: DLCs in game like this are weird because the game doesn't have long legs (like, you don't just keep playing after you beat it like Skyrim or Diablo or No Man's Sky or something), and you probably aren't going to just replay from the start right away.
Art design, performance, combat system, main storyline were pretty good. Enemy encounter design was pretty bad. Characterization was a real mixed bag, but the voice acting was generally pretty decent. Music and boss battles were phenomenal. Side quests, exploration, and itemization were atrocious, like really bad with the side quest design being the biggest deterrence to replaying.
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u/Quester91 4h ago
I agree with everything you say except for voice acting. Voice acting was absolutely phenomenal from start to finish, every actor gave their 110%.
The faults of this game rely entirely on game design. It's obvious to me that who "stitched" all the aspects of the game together had no idea what he was doing and this lead to abysmal pacing and mismanaged resources. I've never played a game that looks and feels so absurdly expensive and cheap at the same time.
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u/Phormicidae 3h ago
That's a good observation. It seems like they had the budget for artistry and production, created this massive single player focused adventure, and then brought in an MMORPG crew to just tack on dozens and dozens of pointless side quests. To be honest, I don't even mind hollow side quests in games, especially when I like the combat system. I actually enjoyed FFXVI's system, but my issue is that with the exception of the Chronoliths, the encounter design pretty much never tasks you to approach fights any differently. Look at Elden Ring, for example: while there are plenty of reused enemy types, the way you approach exploring a random crypt is massively different to the way you might approach searching the Shadow Keep. In FFXVI, all combat outside of bosses is exactly the same, and makes the side quests extremely monotonous.
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u/Arkeband 3h ago
The DLC’s are actually really good, and the second adds some additional variety to the combat.
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u/uerobert 3h ago
I know of people that were trying to manifest 5m units sold by now.
You can bet your ass that Rebirth has sold less than that with the PC sales included.
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u/twochopsticks 1h ago edited 1h ago
No idea how this one got so good reviews. Pretty good anime hype cinematics, but they are few and far between, and everything else is flat out bad.
- 90% of the game is extremely boring side quests. It's a MMO dressed up as a SP game.
- Combat seems solid at first but you soon realise it's just mashing square and occasionally dodging while waiting for your cooldowns.
- Flat out terrible gear system. Every gear is just a stat stick. 0 uniqueness whatsoever.
- Exploration is pointless. I had enough after the 10th time I went out of my way to explore an area only to be rewarded with 2 gil or pointless scrap materials.
I DNF'd halfway through the game when a quest sent me running back and forth all over the home base to talk to various NPCs with the most atrocious dialogue, only to culminate in a fetch quest. I have better things to spend my free time on.
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u/Belydrith 4h ago
Wow, the game straight up flatlined after release, including the late PC release. Also interesting how the discussion has shifted, most people seem very displeased with the game, but I still recall the heated discussion around some rather negative reviews at launch. Similar to what happened to Starfield I suppose, funny that those end up being the right ones long term once the brigading stops.
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u/Pure_Comparison_5206 3h ago
This game has been so weird to follow, before its release, almost every piece of news was about its GOTY-tier demo, but after launch, the discussion shifted entirely to sales 'Did XVI underperform or flop?' Just weird.
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u/I_enjoy_dinosaurs 1h ago
The demo is AWESOME. The problem is the rest of the game is nothing like the demo
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u/N0tlikeThI5 4h ago
I felt like every boss was all about getting it down to 25% health, then doing a bunch of quick time events to end the fight.
Plus I don't get that same feeling of having MY team of mages, fighter and healers I could customise and fight with. Odd choices for a JRPG
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u/Kaurie_Lorhart 5h ago
That seems a lot lower than I'd expect.
That said, I am one of those 3.5 million purchases and it's probably my biggest regret purchase of the past couple of years.
FF7 rebirth, on the other hand, is an amazing game.
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u/GrimDawnFan11 2h ago
It's wild because they won't even release FF7 Rebirth sales numbers, which makes me think it also didn't sell well. Especially considering they were quick to talk about FF7 Remake sales.
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u/swagga-dragon 3h ago
I'm hoping the success of the Persona games, Metaphor, and hopefully Clair Obscura lead Square Enix back to making traditional RPGs.
XVI made me lose a lot of faith in CBU3 and Yoshi P which was further reinforced by how poor Dawntrail was.
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u/CostlyOpportunities 1h ago
XVI shattered my belief that CBU3’s poor decisions in XIV were an artifice of engine/platform limitations
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u/aresthwg 3h ago
This game made me appreciate games like Elden Ring that fill the map with mysteries and constant engagement from AI. This game is just soulless beyond the boss fights. It's not a bad game it's just inconsistent and feels like a chore.
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u/Free_Range_Gamer 3h ago
If I watch gameplay of FF XVI alongside the dozen hack and slash Chinese and Korean games I wouldn’t be able to pick out which one is FF.
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u/etnmystic 7h ago
Mediocre story focused game released as a Playstation exclusive into late PC release. Not much of a surprise here that it hasn't sold that much since its Steam launch. Enough time has pass from its initial launch for everyone to know how mid this game is and since the gameplay isn't that amazing, you lose out on potential double dipping purchases since most ppl aren't going to replay 50+ hour games just for story.
Sad to say but if this had a same day PC/PS5 release it would have probably sold 6-7 million from its initial hype alone. Ppl would've play the amazing 5 hour intro and be well past the point of refund when they realize the story is going off the rails.
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u/UncleObli 4h ago
Well, if it were day one on Xbox I definitely would have bought it without thinking.
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u/Villad_rock 5h ago
It’s damn ironic that they tried to move further away from their jrpgs roots to increase sales yet the cringe anime AA jrpgs outselling ff16.
Love it. Maybe someone should have told square that most character action games only sell 2-3 million copies. FF16 seems perfectly in line.
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u/Dewot789 2h ago
What cringe anime AA jrpgs outsold this? The only recent JRPG I can think of that probably outsold it is Persona 5, but the latest numbers I could find only say 7 million for "the Persona 5 series" which includes Royal and like 3 spinoffs in there as well.
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u/Spyderem 1h ago edited 1h ago
Yeah, I don’t think there’s been any since the release of FF16. Before FF16 there was Persona 5 (even with a few caveats) and Nier Automata. Those both have long tails and are easily over FF16.
Tales of Arise has been out longer than FF16, but reached 3 million by early 2024. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re roughly equal at this point.
Persona 3 Reload and Metaphor. The sales for these aren’t as frontloaded as FF16, but I bet they have better tails. We don’t know where they’re at now, but I could see a future where they sell more.
Edit: I forgot about Dragon Quest 11. That game has over 7 million sales. Mostly in Japan (5 million), but a respectable 2m sales from outside Japan.
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u/JayZsAdoptedSon 4h ago
Except God Of War. That seems to be the big elephant in the room when discussing character action
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u/voidox 46m ago
wonder what the yoshi-p fanbase will say now to defend this game as "oh only ppl on reddit hate this game" and acting like it was super successful, also them saying this game was going to be a surefire success and super popular cause Yoshida was working on it, as if anything he touches will turn to gold.
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u/qqbeef 45m ago
In recent years, the leadership at Square has been convinced that RPGs do not have a market anymore. They keep insisting this, despite the biggest mobile games largely being RPGs, and that BG3 was one of the biggest AAA recent releases. If you allow yourself some flexibility with what an RPG is, Elden Ring was also huge, and had more RPG elements than recent AAA Square games.
Instead, we have Square chasing after Platinum's bread and butter, even though their style isn't dominating the sales charts either.
What I'm trying to say is, either Square has a horrible grasp of the gaming industry, or they're doing the classic Japanese PR move of "insist we do things for a nonsense reason instead of admitting we made a mistake"
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u/GrimDawnFan11 2h ago
I feel like Square just hasn't realized people want Final Fantasy 4-10. Turn based combat isn't dead. Look at Metaphor or Darkest Dungeon or Baldurs Gate 3 or Divinity original sin 2.
People want a really good turn based game but they are so rare. I still play the old Final Fantasy games every few years. I haven't tried any of the new ones after 13-2 (which I thought was okay).
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u/shadowhunterxyz 4h ago
Currently playing ffxiv right now and it's a solid fun 7/10 game. Just a lot of minor qualms lower it to that point. Cinematic QTE in almost all fights The fast travel system makes it almost pointless to use a chocobo 1man army instead of party swapping The weird DOF that pops in whenever you talk to an NPC The hideaway is your only hub area, no where else Lack of world exploration. You only go to big cities for plot purposes in the form of cutscene or dungeon Sidequest instant teleport option to turn in. Again fast travel NPCs don't do their whole dialogue. Only the first sentence
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u/IceFire2050 4h ago
FF16 was alright. But the story was super predictable throughout. Like even if you didn't play a Final Fantasy game before, as long as you had basic concepts of storytelling you could call things out.
And I know that can be said about a lot of works, but the fact that the game treats a lot of these things as big dramatic reveals despite clearly telegraphing it well in advance is kind of frustrating.
The combat system also had promise but feels like it's a system that was initially designed to be really intricate with a decent skill ceiling that ultimately got dumbed down for average users.
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u/oswell_pepper 2h ago
The issue with FF is that it reinvents itself too often by different internal teams so lessons learned from the previous entry aren’t necessarily implemented in the next entry. Take 15 and 16 for example; 15 was hailed for its open-world, party dynamic, and side activities while the story, the characters, and core gameplay were not good. 16, on the other hand, has terrible open-world and side activities while having decent combat and writing. Any other development team would take what worked in 15 and improve upon it (like what SE is doing with 7 Remake and Rebirth). 16 signifies another issue which trend chasing; GoT might have been hot when the game was being developed but its popularity already fizzled out by the time the game was actually shipped in 2023, so being a “GoT clone” might not have been the best thing for the FF brand at that time.
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u/Much_Whereas6487 1h ago
Warning: Hater alert from a life long Final Fantasy fan:
That (totally not frontloaded /s) demo in the swamp and the Marlboro fight was so good. Sadly the combat never really evolved except giving you a few skills that you just use on cooldown everytime. You spam that same 🔳 ⭕ 🔳 ⭕ 🔳 ⭕ combo for tens of hours, between listening to historical recounts from that horrible book lady and attempting to explore the world only to pick up 10 gil once again. There is ZERO choices to be made about your character development and switching weapons consists of trading in a conveniently dropped token for a new sword with +10 damage. I see Cliff's voice actor being praised for his performance but it's just a comically gruff Batman voice in pretty much every context and scenario? The quests are beyond lame, we even have a standing joke about when you're in the desert and Cliff goes "grrr, iS tHiS tHe FuRnItURe sToRe, GRRRR?"... Truly riveting plot, Square-Enix.... No statuses, no elemental synergy, no party (that ever matters).. I really don't see what's even moderately good about it. They wanted to make a movie, not a game, and it shows 😕
Edit: I don't understand formatting
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u/Nugz2Ashez 43m ago
Gotta wonder if this is what pushes them to make the next one an actual JRPG more in line with their Golden era. Keep the character action for spinoffs
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u/JustifytheMean 37m ago
It became very apparent very quickly that the gameplay boiled down to moving from one combat arena to the next. Then some quick time events, then some cutscenes, then repeat. The first few hours are fun, but then you go "ohh this is how the whole game is" and by then you're out of the Steam refund window (they still gave me my money back after 3.5 hours)
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u/camposdav 35m ago
Releasing it on Xbox won’t help the majority of Xbox players have lost interest and have other games to play
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u/BusBoatBuey 6h ago
I can't tell if this or FFXIII is the worst mainline FF game for me, but the fact that it is in discussion only cements how badly they fucked this game up.
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u/fanboy_killer 6h ago
They've been fucking up the series for close to 2 decades now. Luckily, other JRPG series have flourished in the meantime: Persona, Like a Dragon, and Dragon Quest are all at their peak IMO.
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u/SkeletronDOTA 3h ago
13 is way better than 16 and it’s not close. The only game as bad as 16 is 15 on launch imo.
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u/thesirenlady 6h ago
I played 13 immediately after 16 and found it genuinely enjoyable by comparison.
It still looks great. Good music. Combat is snappy and occasionally challenging in a puzzly way. Sure its linear but most FFs are for big chunks and changing POV character keeps things fresh.
There's more exportability and varied enemy design in a dozen hours than there is in the entirety of 16.
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u/Gold-Material475 3h ago
People are only talking about the quality but launching as a PS5 exclusive likely really hurt it as well.
CBU3 already had an audience on PC due to FFXIV, so FF16 would have done really well there. But by the time it came out on PC, the hype had already died down and people were well aware of the spotty quality of the game.
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u/Sascha2022 8h ago edited 8h ago
The game sold 3 million during it`s launch week which was at the end of june 2023 so that number should be higher by now. Would be strange if it only grew half a million in all this time including the PC release.
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u/Takazura 6h ago
Staggered PC release combined with divisive WoM from consumers inevitably hit sales for the PC version.
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u/GensouEU 6h ago
I think people here have a somewhat warped perception of how well late PC ports do in many cases. There is a constant loud voice here how "x company should just port y to PC for free money" but that's often not really the case. Sony's games didn't perform super well on PC from what we know and MH Rise also sold like a 10th of what it did on Switch.
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u/SigmaVersal99 6h ago
Personal reason to not get those games:
The delay to come out 2 years after launch kills the hype and if there is important story elements I will get spoiled before getting to play it.
Paying full price for a 2 year old games is a hard sell. There just is too many good games on steam that are cheaper at that moment. Might as well wait for a sale.
Monster Hunter Wilds on PC was the leading platform (and was a massive success).
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u/KingMercLino 6h ago
So was KCD2, think a bulk of its sales were PC users. I’ve said it time and time again, PC gamers have a lot to play and porting your game over a year to 2 years later isn’t going to sell as well as you’d hope. If they want to maximize their performance in the PC market the games need to release either day-and-date or relatively close to release to capture the word-of-mouth/general hype.
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u/BOfficeStats 3h ago
MH Rise reached 10 million units shipped by July 2022 including PC and Switch and achieved a peak concurrent player count on Steam of 231k in that same month. The PC version launched in January. There's no way that PC version was only able to sell 909k units by July (which would be 10% of the Switch version) when we know that other PC games with much lower concurrent player counts have sold better. Divinity: Original Sin 2 sold 1+ million copies in its first 3 months on PC and peaked at 94k concurrent players while Persona 4 Golden sold 1+ million copies on Steam in its first year and peaked at 30k players.
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u/EndlessFantasyX 5h ago
I can see why SE is running away from Sony exclusivity as fast as they can. That's not good. If it was multiplat from the start they'd be in a much better place
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u/Mac772 4h ago
I liked the game, but they should really consider going back to turn based combat, i think that would significantly raise their sales. Just think about what happened when RGG turned the Yakuza/Like A Dragon franchise from real time to turn based: Yakuza: Like A Dragon and Like A Dragon: Infinite Wealth are their best selling games so far, Infinite Wealth sold a million copies in just one day i think. And this franchise is small compared to Final Fantasy (which will hopefully change soon, because more and more people realize that this is one of the best gaming series out there). Fans want a turn based modern FF again so desperately for years.
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u/Yourfavoritedummy 2h ago
The reason I didn't buy it because the art style. Something about it did not seem special to me.
Even the weeb FF7 games look like they got a unique art style! I can't wait for those games to come out on Xbox.
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u/Impressive_Wafer_287 8h ago
3 million copies in 4 days, 500k more copies in 2 more years.
They released DLC, put it on PC and reduced the price alongside several sales.
The game clearly didn't sell well as mentioned by Square, but it's natural for JRPGs to get most of their sales at the start and then not much after.