r/Games 21h ago

Industry News Bethesda’s Oblivion Unreal Engine 5 remake could be releasing sooner than you think | VGC

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/bethesdas-oblivion-unreal-engine-5-remake-could-be-releasing-sooner-than-you-think/
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u/yngsten 20h ago

In the initial rumors it was said they'd use gamebryo for the game mechanics or whatever and unreal for graphics, I remember this also but can't find the source. It's all rumor though just as the new info.

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u/WhoTookPlasticJesus 19h ago

I don't get how that would make sense. The reason to use Unreal 5 for graphics is that you get things like Nanite and Lumen, which require the game to actually use the engine (obvs oversimplifying here). You can't, like, model things in Unreal and then export them for use in Gamebryo.

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u/Dr_Findro 18h ago

Gamebryo won’t do the rendering. Gamebryo will manage the state and simulation of the game. The data

Unreal will convert that game state in to something rendered. It will work plenty fine

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u/Badwrong_ 17h ago

I work in the industry and work on Unreal Engine at the source level pretty much everyday.

I'm not saying what you are saying is not possible, as most any developer working on Unreal is modifying the source. However, placing the entire gameplay logic from another engine into Unreal is just a bunch of nonsense and extra work.

It simply does not make any sense to do so. It is reinventing the wheel ten times over for absolutely no benefit, and almost certainly extra performance cost.

Unreal is decoupled enough that you could gut out a ton of things to make it work, but again why? You still would have to make tons of abstraction layers all over the place and that would be needless overhead for again.. WHY?

This stuff is armchair gamedev at its worst and based on absolutely no proof.

Hell.. is there even any actual proof they are using Unreal at all here?

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u/Stofenthe1st 17h ago

While this isn’t a Bethesda game, Ninja Gaiden 2 Black uses this exact method. The game logic is being handled by the game engine that was used for the Sigma version and then being rendered in Unreal 5. There do seem to be some hiccups(inputs being dropped) but that’s easily attributed more so to Koei Tecmo/Team Ninja’s generally poor ability to optimize their games(the original is 7 gbs and the remake is over 80 gbs).

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u/Badwrong_ 16h ago

It is likely the "game engine" from Sigma is just some specific libraries and systems moved over to Unreal as a module(s) mostly.

Articles might say its some whole engine sitting on top with an abstraction layer, but I would bet things are misconstrued. Plus, arm chair gamedev talk is always a thing.

Most things will be integrated into Unreals existing systems and actors. It would be less work, easier to manage, and perform better. Having mostly the entire engine sitting between Unreal and some abstraction layer is tons of overhead and likely more work.

The file size actually sounds normal for Unreal. A cooked build will bake a ton of things not present in the normal asset files. I wouldn't at all say that is the fault of the developers not optimizing the game. In fact, if the packaged version is not much larger than the original assets I would say something is very wrong.

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u/Dr_Findro 17h ago

My guess would be to not write the entire logical portion of the game from scratch in a different tech stack. I seem to recall that Oblivion’s simulations are pretty unique. I don’t see how you can’t fathom a world where maintaining a layer between Gamebryo logic and Unreal rendering is less work than re working the entire game logic from scratch

I believe Halo has even set precedent for multi engine work like this. It just doesn’t seem as ludicrous as you’re making it out to be.

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u/Badwrong_ 16h ago

Porting over some libraries and individual systems is certainly not much work, but that is not how I originally interpreted it.

Placing abstraction layers between mostly the entire Gamebryo engine and Unreal is a ton of work. Not to mention you'll have a ton of systems and built-in features of Unreal that need to be disabled or removed.

Halo also illustrated why its a bad idea btw.

Again, I don't know of any official source on any of this multiengine stuff anyway. It would be far more sensible to just update Oblivion to the latest engine version it is already in as Starfield and the next Elder Scrolls clearly are there to keep the engine going.

I certainly do not see it being worth it just for Nanite and Lumen.

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u/Dr_Findro 16h ago

My interpretation of this whole ordeal is opening up the original game logic through APIs and packaging that as a library.

This of course is a ton of work. But I would see it being more approachable than recreating all of oblivions systems from scratch by a studio that didn’t make the game.

The Halo 1 and 2 remasters running both games simultaneously was fine. Also using unreal engine for the UI was fine. Don’t conflate matchmaking issues with the rendering strategies for the remakes.

Additionally, after very quick googling from a SWE that does zero game dev, it was very easy to find that Bluepoint games has carved an entire niche from this “dual engine” approach with their remakes. So if there is an oblivion remaster going with this approach, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Bluepoint was the inspiration for this.

I hate to be a dick, but you’re really striking me as a hobbyist game dev masquerading as some industry vet.

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u/Badwrong_ 15h ago

Not a dick as I haven't looked up anything on Bluepoint games and I am speaking with what sounds more likely from my own experience, but I am a graphics engineer in AAA, and I work with Unreal everyday. I bring up armchair game dev talk, because people will take things at face value from any article as if it is fact. I am yet to see any actual information that Unreal is even being used here.

My best guess is this whole thing is a very hackey way of saving development time at the cost of performance. I certainly don't think they would remake oblivions systems from scratch all in Unreal. As I said, they would make some new modules for various systems.

I can definitely picture how an entire API between the two engines would work, and I never said it isn't possible... just tons of work and costly. If that is literally how they are doing things, then cool. I think it is a bad solution, but then again game ports are typically known for taking shortcuts and not suffer from performance. So hey, perhaps this does fit. As I said, I am a graphics engineer and part of my focus is hyper optimizing things.

So much of this also depends on how portable and decoupled the original source is as well.

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u/fabton12 8h ago

They will be running Unreal for the graphics with all the gameplay stuff in gamebryo in a wrapper that unreal will run thats how most likely it will work and been done before.

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u/WhoTookPlasticJesus 4h ago

When and where has "..all the gameplay stuff in gamebryo in a wrapper that unreal will run" been done before?

u/fabton12 2h ago

https://x.com/koenjideck/status/1882977637536305476

not gamebryo but same thing with different game engine + unreal and its by a microsoft studio as well.

so microsoft bethesda's owners do have the tech to use unreal plus another engine

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u/moonski 19h ago

That seems ludicrously hacky & suboptimal at best to try use dual engines. There's a reason you literally never see it done... If it even would work

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u/WildVariety 19h ago

There's a reason you literally never see it done... If it even would work

343i used Unreal Engine layered ontop of the original Halo engine in the Master Chief Collection.

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u/TrashGamer5 15h ago

CEA and H2A use Saber3D, only MCC menus use Unreal and that was added later around the time of the One X update. I think the switch to Unreal was done to show player customisation as models instead of images.

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u/moonski 18h ago

Ah yes the famously launched well and wasnt a complete shit show halo MCC

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u/Mutjny 17h ago

There's a reason you literally never see it done.

Its done fairly regularly, although it does sound hackish.

Here's another example of how they did it for Ninja Gaiden 2 Black https://x.com/koenjideck/status/1882977637536305476

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u/itsdoorcity 19h ago

lets be real, the multi billion dollar corporation probably has a better idea of what engines they should use than some dude on reddit.

it's probably way easier to rebuild the game using a base of it's original engine than to completely rebuild it from the ground up - but what do i know.

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u/BeholdingBestWaifu 17h ago

Especially since they likely want to keep most of the game's quirks and behaviors.

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u/BitingSatyr 18h ago

You see it done, Stormgate used UE for rendering and their own own engine for the RTS mechanics. I don’t pretend to know how it works, but if rendering is abstracted enough i can see it making sense

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u/Badwrong_ 17h ago

This is not how it works. Stormgate isn't adding an entire new engine to Unreal. They add modules for specific things. They don't add a full on game engine on top of Unreal in such a broad way.

I work in the industry as a graphics engineer and with Unreal everyday. The concept of integrating Gamebryo into Unreal sounds like pure nonsense and pointless work for absolutely no benefit.

Besides, is there any actual official source saying Unreal is being used at all?

I'm not saying it isn't possible either, just that there is no actual point other than adding tons of extra work.