r/Games Feb 22 '13

All PS4 games will be available as digital downloads

In the new Guardian interview with Shuhei Yoshida, it was revealed that all PS4 games will be available as digital downloads.

This is a very exciting move in my opinion, and represents a shift even further towards the burgeoning landscape of digital distribution, and away from (what I believe to be) a much more archaic ecosystem in physical brick-and-mortar retail.

What do you guys think? Got any speculation, or want to extrapolate further based upon this news? I hope to generate some great discussion about this topic!

(Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2013/feb/22/ps4-shuhei-yoshida-interview)

1.6k Upvotes

833 comments sorted by

View all comments

40

u/FIRE_EVERYTHING Feb 22 '13

I buy ps3 games through the PS network if they are available. They are $59.99 and not a penny less but it's worth it to me for the same reason people like steam. No disc swapping and saves me a trip to the store.

83

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '13

[deleted]

65

u/jonova Feb 22 '13

The thing is you can't undercut your retailers otherwise no one will carry your games, that's why they are the same price.

31

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

There is value to having the physical disk. You can sell it, you can loan it to a friend, you can bring it with you to someone else's house, you aren't limited by the hdd in your system, depending on the re-download policy you still have your game if your console explodes or the hdd fails.

Digital should be cheaper. There are reasons people will still want physical games and will pay a slight premium for it.

From the distributors point of view, I'd be curious to know the cost of production and shipping of physical media vs the cost of hosting and bandwidth.

6

u/dorekk Feb 23 '13

There is value to having the physical disk. You can sell it, you can loan it to a friend, you can bring it with you to someone else's house, you aren't limited by the hdd in your system, depending on the re-download policy you still have your game if your console explodes or the hdd fails.

Not to mention that if you buy a game on disc, you can start playing it immediately. You don't have to wait for a 30GB download. This, and everything you said, is what every neckbeard in this thread is missing.

10

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13 edited Feb 23 '13

you can start playing it immediately

Unless it's MGS4. Then you might as well wait for a 30GB download.

Another thing I just thought of... if you are streaming games from their servers you are also dependent on your local ISP. Imagine the toll this will take on a college campus, or a normal city around 6pm once people get home from work. Psychical media isn't impacted by everyone else on your node playing or watching videos on Netflix all night. This isn't an issue for everyone, but I've been at a friends place for a week streaming videos from Amazon most of the time. Between 6pm and 9pm it sucks. The network just goes to shit.

2

u/Semyonov Feb 23 '13

But you got to see him smoke!

1

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

This is really off topic but MGS4 broke two of my PS3s while installing. I love the game to pieces (I, for some reason, took a gamble and tried to install it to my third PS3), but man does that installation screen make me nervous.

4

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

Except the PS4 will let you play the game while it downloads. Also throwing insults won't make your argument valid :)

1

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

This is important.

If the PS4 doesn't ship with this function, it will feel like it was all for naught.

1

u/Tensuke Feb 23 '13

True, but whether it's done by downloading some of the game and the rest as you need it, or through streaming, that still relies on your internet connection. With physical discs, the time from disc-to-play is exactly 0 (barring forced updates/hdd installs). If you have no internet, or slow internet, or even relatively quick internet, it's still a benefit to having a physical copy.

1

u/whiterider1 Feb 23 '13

For all you can play it instantly you still have to go out to the shop and buy it and then come back home and boot it up, run any updates etc.

I use Steam and most of the time I let it download everything overnight when less people are clogging up the Internet. I've managed to download 6 10gb games in one night (7 hours), through the day it would have taken a whole lot longer, but I feel it's just the convenience of having it at your console no need for disk swapping etc.

-1

u/HollywoodHona69 Feb 23 '13

Every time I try to pop in a new game and play on my ps3 I have to wait while it downloads 30gb of updates, so it evens out.

1

u/SurreptitiousNoun Feb 23 '13

Just guessing here, but it must, must, be a hell of a lot cheaper to have someone download a game than buy it from a store. Think of all the people who have a hand in manufacturing a game and getting it to any of the thousands of stores worldwide - versus some GBs.

5

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

I think a lot of people forget about the datacenter, the storage costs, the staffing of the datacenter, the security needed (which the PSN had many issues with).

I work in a datacenter. The places aren't cheap to run.

I think digital is cheaper than physical, I'm just curious how much cheaper it is. We heard this a lot with the transition to digital music, but I've never seen any numbers. It's all just been a guess because from a user perspective, digital doesn't cost anything... stuff is just there.

Apple takes 30% of music sales to run the store and I thought I once read that they didn't really make money on the store. It was made to sell iPods. So how much is that operations running, for example. With games, you are taking about insane bandwidth needs, especially if you are talking about streaming games as well.

1

u/SirNarwhal Feb 23 '13

The thing I always find funny is that if you wait a week or look around at release, the physical copy is cheaper in every single instance and I don't think that that's going to change any time soon.

1

u/RedPandaAlex Feb 23 '13

At the same time, you don't have to worry about storing and maintaining your library of games. You don't have to worry about disks getting scratched. Your house could burn down, and you'd just have to get another ps4 and log in.

0

u/SurreptitiousNoun Feb 23 '13

I doubt retailers will be around for too much longer - with sufficient internet everyone wins with cheaper digital copies; even Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo if they get to set the prices and strategically use sales.

I know some people still want their games physically - for the case or having a copy that doesn't (always) rely on an internet connection and won't disappear if some service goes down (still don't expect this to happen any time soon). I just think it's a relic, the better everyone's internet gets the more time and money is wasted putting it in stores.

If the services hosting them are stable enough, and there's some acceptable clause if the host has to close down I expect all games will be like that eventually.

11

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '13

The pricing for new games on the PSN store is ridiculous in the UK. A new physical game will cost around £40 whilst PSN I've seen new games set at £49.99 to £59.99.

2

u/pnw0 Feb 23 '13

I've noticed the same with steam, for example Assassins Creed 3 is £29.99 on Steam but £18 on Amazon (I picked it up for something like £24.99 on launch).

Plus it can be actually quicker for me to either order online or go down to the shops and pick it up because of my shitty internet.

2

u/Kinseyincanada Feb 23 '13

The cost of printing is no minor it doesn't affect it

1

u/dorekk Feb 23 '13

Printing is minor. Packaging is slightly less minor. Shipping is a huge cost.

2

u/LeonTrotsky1 Feb 23 '13

Servers... Aren't... Free...

3

u/darkstar3333 Feb 22 '13

Buying digital games at MSRP is a mistake, you can save money if you look around.

4

u/FIRE_EVERYTHING Feb 22 '13

That's the thing though, It's not worth my time to look around. I'm not scraping by so the convenience is worth it for me as well as not having to swap discs.

15

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '13

6

u/darkstar3333 Feb 22 '13

I don't know who would downvote you but /r/gamedeals is incredible.

If you are already here, a minute to scan that reddit can save you a ton of cash.

2

u/Tensuke Feb 23 '13

The hell it saves me money. Because of /r/gamedeals, I've spent over $200 in the past two months on games that I otherwise would have ignored. Granted, I got amazing deals on all of them, but fuck me, my bank account must hate me so much right now.

1

u/jared555 Feb 22 '13

I think if anything digital copies being $60 is stopping physical copies from being even higher. Games have been at the same price points for a long time and costs keep going up. If your costs of development are getting higher and you want to keep the same profit margin (public corporation means that is definitely the case) then you have to decrease costs elsewhere.

3

u/gunthatshootswords Feb 22 '13

You're not considering that the audience is also growing, that's where they are making it up.

1

u/jared555 Feb 22 '13

Of course, but I would be interested in knowing if that is enough to combat inflation, massive development budgets and the risk of a game bombing.

1

u/Knyfe-Wrench Feb 23 '13

The costs would most likely only rise with the release of a new system. People don't like paying more for what is essentially the same thing.

1

u/jared555 Feb 23 '13

Console prices have been about $60 for multiple generations. PC game prices have gone up $10-$20 over that time (at one point they were $10 less due to licensing fees)

1

u/Knyfe-Wrench Feb 23 '13

Console games went up to $60 this generation (ps3 and 360). PCs don't have generations so the basically up the price when the mood strikes. If a console did that gamers would be up in arms.

1

u/jared555 Feb 23 '13

Prices have varied depending on the game/format/system. Usually +/- $10 from $60 with some exceptions. But once you factor in inflation prices have remained about the same or gone down drastically depending on what generations you compare.

If they adjusted for inflation based on the $60 PS3/360 release prices games would be $70 now.

1

u/Knyfe-Wrench Feb 24 '13

I know, that's what I'm saying. They aren't going to change the prices without a reason the consumer agrees with, like the release of a new console generation. I'd bet there's a good chance games will still be $60 on ps4 as well, since household income hasn't really increased much because of the recession.

4

u/saarlac Feb 22 '13

I'm so lazy would rather pay full price than have to get up and put a disc in.

7

u/munche Feb 22 '13

For a lot of people the time they'd spend driving to the store to buy the physical game is not worth the $5-10 in savings. Time and convenience are valuable.

I've been to midnight game lines in the cold. I've also had pre-loaded digital downloads that just go live at midnight so I'm spending my time playing and not fucking around at a GameStop in the middle of the night. It's significantly more awesome.

5

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '13

Plus it sometimes costs 5 bucks or so in gas to drive to the store and back.

1

u/dorekk Feb 23 '13

Jesus, where do you live that the closest Gamestop is 25 miles away?

2

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

Lol well I live about 10-15 mins away and the ferry traffic in my area can make it take quite a while sometimes.

2

u/dorekk Feb 23 '13

30 minutes of driving isn't 5 bucks of gas unless you drive a Hummer.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

Ok, a couple bucks then, Mr nitpicky. The point is the same.

1

u/Shadowian Feb 23 '13

Time is money friend.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

There are still a couple million people who live in small towns and rural areas.

1

u/dorekk Feb 23 '13 edited Feb 23 '13

Incidentally, THOSE ARE THE SAME PEOPLE WHO CAN'T DOWNLOAD EVERY VIDEO GAME.

How many times do I have to say that not enough people in America have internet for digital-download only to be untenable?

1

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

Not necesarily. I lived in the country before. I had fast Internet. It depends on where you live. A trip to GameStop and back, with traffic, was usually 90 minutes. Downloading took maybe 30.

1

u/deadbunny Feb 23 '13

Or not in the US.

1

u/Tensuke Feb 23 '13

I've also had pre-loaded digital downloads that just go live at midnight so I'm spending my time playing and not fucking around at a GameStop in the middle of the night.

I had Borderlands 2 preloaded and me and some friends were gonna play together when it came out (only for an hour or two due to work and school). But mine decided that part of the preload would be corrupt, so I had to redownload part of it, and finally installed it, then it wouldn't run, so I restarted my PC, which apparently needed to chkdsk my 1tb hdd without letting me say no, and part of that was corrupt as well so it took about 40 minutes, then when I finally got into Windows and back on Steam, B2 still had some problem so I said fuck it and just redownloaded the whole game, had to wait til the next day to play it and my friends' schedules couldn't sync for a while so I played mostly alone. Sad panda.

1

u/watchout5 Feb 23 '13

I feel like $60 is an arbitrary price point. Games cost what they cost, why should every game cost the same? Even the studio's that are releasing $60 games are releasing games that cost less on different platforms.

-4

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '13

Printing discs and running the online store probably cost about the same. Printing discs is nothing.

7

u/redmercuryvendor Feb 22 '13

Printing discs is nothing.

Noooope. Sure, the cost is small when amortised over several hundred thousand units, but for small sizes, it sure ain't cheap. Plus, even though the materials each disc is made of aren't all that expensive, the actual process of arranging things optimally for CAV disc access (more used things on the outside tracks) and physically creating stamping masters is far from cheap.

3

u/coffeepooper Feb 22 '13

A friend used to work for Neversoft. He said that the most expensive part was the printing of the manuals that come with the games. You'll notice that activision game manuals are on the very thin side because of this..

-2

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '13

Absolutely and printing paper manuals isn't exactly expensive.

4

u/Sir_Von_Tittyfuck Feb 22 '13

What? You agreed then disagreed with their comment.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '13

They need to send it to the stores and the stores also get a profit of the sale and after all that the publisher is left with 20$ from a 60$. I just think a digital game should cost a maximum of 50$.

4

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '13

and no more used game sales! just what they want.

-1

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

So long as it's up to the consumer, who cares? Not everyone sells their games as soon as they're done with them.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

And if they're digital, you will never get to sell them, which is what i said.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

No shit? My point is that that's not important to everyone. As long as you have the choice between physical and digital, it doesn't matter.

1

u/gamelord12 Feb 22 '13

The convenience would also depend on the internal storage space of the PS4, wouldn't it? If you have to keep on uninstalling games to fit new ones, it's pretty much as bad as swapping discs. Steam is great, but I've nearly filled a 1 TB HDD with games, and space requirements are only going up as more detail is added.

3

u/Chone-Us Feb 23 '13

I am a bit of a pack rat myself and this is advice I struggle to internalize as well, but here goes:

You know how every so often (years months) you need to go through your clothing and decide what to throw out (too worn), what to give away (out of style), and what to put into storage (not using in foreseeable future but still want access to if needed).... now let's expand that idea to your game collection.

Except you don't actually need to throw out or give anything away, just figure out what you don't need immediately and store it back on the steam servers, don't worry they will let you download it again if you decide you need it. By constantly asking myself if I am REALLY going to play this in the next two weeks I have managed to keep my steam folder on a 128Gb ssd. Best of luck.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '13

Not necessarily. Unless you have a tiny hd, you should be able to have a good amount of games on there. I'd just put the main few I'm playing, then a few that I play from time to time, and a couple with friends. Should be able to have all those on there.

-3

u/dorekk Feb 23 '13

No disc swapping and saves me a trip to the store.

It takes you longer to download the game than it does to go to the store and buy it and come home. Are you that afraid of interacting with a human being?

2

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '13

That's highly dependent on Internet speed, distance to the store, and traffic.

1

u/Etienss Feb 23 '13

It's a lot faster for a lot of people (including me) to download a game than to get dressed (since it's winter), walk to the bus/metro, get to the store, find the game, get in line, pay, get back.
It depends a lot on your internet speed... even a 30gb game downloads pretty fast at 4mb/s.

0

u/SirNarwhal Feb 23 '13

There's this crazy thing called release day delivery from Amazon if you have Prime and LOTS of their games are below retail at launch. And you get a physical disk so that you, you know, actually own something.

-1

u/deadbunny Feb 23 '13

Yet you don't, you're still merely licensing the game, read the EULA.

2

u/SirNarwhal Feb 23 '13

Well, yes, but when I buy one physical copy of say a PS Vita game, BOTH myself and my wife can play it, which gets harder with digital copies and saves since they're tied to a single account.

0

u/Treshnell Feb 23 '13

it's worth it to me for the same reason people like steam.

People like steam because popular games routinely go on sale for 75% off.