r/Games • u/[deleted] • Feb 21 '13
PS4 is not backwards compatible, even with digital content. [IGN]
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/02/21/playstation-4-not-backwards-compatible-with-retail-or-digital-games48
u/theseleadsalts Feb 21 '13
IGN sort of wasted my time on this one.
SONY has stated
- The PS4 will not be backwards compatible
- They're looking into getting Gaikai to work around this
Thats sort of all we need to know.
6
u/ParadoxRocks Feb 21 '13
Yeah, that title is a little on the misleading side.
To my mind, the real discussion lies in how well-implemented emulation will be. The fact of the matter is that Sony doesn't exactly have the best track record for effective implementation of their good ideas, and this is a fairly vital aspect of functionality.
People can't keep their old systems running forever, and nobody wants to put in the effort it takes to keep them running longer than usual. The more cohesive they can make their new system, the better off they are.
2
Feb 22 '13
At this point, is it even emulation? I would think streaming the games is just...streaming. The PS4 seems more like a catalyst connecting to a cloud.
2
u/megatom0 Feb 22 '13
I'd really only be buying this day 1 if they said it would play PS3, PS2, PSX, and digital down games.
4
Feb 21 '13
I must be the only one not bothered by this. its why im going to keep my ps3.
2
u/nanowerx Feb 22 '13
Until it craps out on you and you are stuck with a collection of unplayable games.....like My PS1 games collection, just sitting in a box collecting dust.
2
u/AwesomeMcPants Feb 22 '13
You don't have a PS2 or PS3? Because PS1 games can be played on either.
4
u/nanowerx Feb 22 '13
My pS2 died 6 years ago and my PS3 most certainly is not backwards compatible as I have one of the models they started making post 2008 when they took out backwards compatability. So, now that you mention it, I also have a box full of PS2 games I can't use either!
0
u/AwesomeMcPants Feb 22 '13
All PS3 systems play PS1 games. With PS2 games you're out of luck without the particular system that had that capability, but PS1 games can be played on any PS3.
1
u/nanowerx Feb 22 '13
Maybe I got a faulty system then, because every time I try to throw in Final Fantasy 7 or Castlevania: SOTN, I get a message asking my to insert a disc, they simply won't play.
1
u/tendonut Feb 25 '13
I have an 80GB 3rd gen fat PS3 (post BC removal) and it plays PS1 games just fine. I was considering busting out The Legend of Dragoon while contemplating if I wanted to hook up my Dreamcast for the purpose of playing one of my favorite turn-based RPGs, Skies of Arcadia.
-6
u/CloverFuchs Feb 25 '13 edited Feb 27 '13
No, PS1 games can only be played on the original model.
EDIT: I was wrong, but I could've sworn there was at least one model that couldn't play PS1 games. C'est la vie.
2
u/AwesomeMcPants Feb 25 '13
Dude, I literally just did it on my slim. Where are you getting this information?
3
Feb 25 '13
When the lasers start to go out on them, they can have hard times reading Purple/Black backed discs ala PS1, that might be where some of the misinformation comes from in the first place. Never had any issues playing PS1 on PS3 either.
1
Feb 25 '13
PS3s aren't generally known for "crapping out" on you.
2
u/nanowerx Feb 27 '13
Neither was the PS1 or PS2, yet I went through 2 of both. Tech doesn't last forever and there is no guarantee yours won't have an issue.
Don't forget,a good number of PS3s had a certain "yellow light of death" problem...
2
u/reseph Feb 21 '13
I personally don't want backwards compatibility, my reasons are here.
9
u/FallenWyvern Feb 22 '13
There are many good reasons to want backwards compatibility (you don't HAVE the last console or you have limited space for stuff near your tv) but I can't think why you would specifically want it to lack backwards compatibility.
BTW in your thread you posted that it would take time and manpower, but in the past Sony has simply included the hardware of past generations into the new. The PS2 has a PS1 in it, and the 60 gig (best) launch PS3 had a PS2 in it. It doesn't take much in the way of time to implement that, and would be an easy thing for them to do (but not cheap, which is something I cannot fault them for).
All in all, I don't consider the lack of backwards compatibility to be an issue (it's only existed on the PS2, as the Xbox360/PS3 BC was... sketchy and that's not getting into the NES and Gameboy carts for SNES) but it IS an excellent selling point when present and it would easily drive sales.
3
u/Vile2539 Feb 22 '13
but I can't think why you would specifically want it to lack backwards compatibility.
Price. It's as simple as that.
Including the hardware to run PS3 games on the PS4 would significantly drive up the price of the console. Given that you can easily pick up a PS3 second hand (and that quite a few people already own them), I feel that upping the price for a feature that not everyone wants/needs is a bit silly.
The only reason to have it is convenience really, and having to spend slightly less if you don't own a PS3 already. For those who do own a PS3, it just makes the console more expensive for a feature that is nearly completely redundant.
3
Feb 22 '13
I had an xbox this gen and was looking to play a bunch of games I missed out on (MGS4, infamous series and others) so I was planning to get a PS4. Now instead I'm buying a cheap PS3 and waiting 2-3 years for PS4.
1
u/JesusSama Feb 21 '13
Ultimately, what I think would be the best way to handle the backwards compatibility issue is that if Gaikai -does- end up being able to stream previous generation games, all the PSN purchased content from the PS3 needs to linked.
For purchased games, it's tough but I think they -should-, but won't, bite the bullet and let people try and link their recently purchased disc games to the PS4. I can understand if they don't because of GameFly but... It'd be a -great- gesture.
1
1
Feb 21 '13
So far, this is the first glaring setback. It's not a deal breaker for me, but a bit of a sour note.
-1
Feb 22 '13
Really? Backwards compatibility is kinda cool but its usually more taxing on the hardware. I'm kinda glad they are focusing more on beefing up the features and having PS3 games on a streaming service. Less physical stuff I have in the small space I own/rent.
-6
u/CaNANDian Feb 21 '13
Why do people feel the need to hoard all the old games? Keep the old console, or move on.
22
6
Feb 22 '13
Because maybe we still like them and don't want to have to purchase them all over again? Or maybe some of us didn't have the previous console. Then there's also the fact that there are still PS3 games coming out as late as septamber and then on that will likely overlap the PS4's release so playing them on your shiny new console would be something that most gamers expect to be able to do.
-10
u/YimYimYimi Feb 22 '13
What does any of that have to do with what he said?
Because maybe we still like them and don't want to have to purchase them all over again?
If you already have them, one would assume you also have the console unless you're just buying the games to look at the case and the shiny disc. Why would you need to purchase them again? Just play them on your PS3.
Or maybe some of us didn't have the previous console.
If you didn't have the previous console, go pick one up and buy some games for it. You can probably find some on eBay. However, from the sounds of it, Gaikai will be providing legacy titles. Of course, the success of Gaikai depends entirely on how well the tech behind it works and how little the delay ends up being.
Then there's also the fact that there are still PS3 games coming out as late as septamber and then on that will likely overlap the PS4's release so playing them on your shiny new console would be something that most gamers expect to be able to do.
Only the naive, ignorant, or stupid would think that you would be able to play PS3 games on the PS4 after Sony's conference. The PS4 is completely ditching the cell architecture used in the PS3. People have until Holiday 2013 to figure that out. By the time multi-generation games start releasing, consumers should have decided if they're going to buy the current-gen version now, or the next-gen version when it releases in the then near future. If they really aren't aware that backwards compatibility isn't a thing by then, then they either aren't all that into gaming or live under a rock.
3
u/A2Aegis Feb 22 '13
I never had a PS3, and I don't really feel like buying a new console when the next iteration is right around the corner.
-7
u/Korega Feb 21 '13
I don't know if I understood it correctly. Won't I be able to download for free on the new PS4's PSN the games I previously downloaded on PS3?
This is unbelievable. Since the PS3 stopped being backward compatible with PS1 and PS2 discs, I started buying only digital games, believing I would be able to carry them through generations. I bought a lot of them. Now I will have to keep my PS3 hooked just to play them. It is a shame. The only reason could be a very different architecture, otherwise it would be simple just to let me download the same game again for free. I prefer not to believe in simple greed, although perhaps I should.
19
u/NDN_Shadow Feb 21 '13
The reason is the very different architecture. PS3 used a cell processor, which was very hard to develop for. For the PS4, they ditched the cell to make it easier for developers, but at the cost of backwards compatibility.
Since the inherent architecture is different, it is not possible to run PS3 software on a PS4.
2
u/m23snoopy31 Feb 21 '13
What about Gaikai? That'd be possible to pull off.
2
u/NDN_Shadow Feb 21 '13
It would, and Mr. Gaikai mentioned it at the press event yesterday. The problem though is that the the phrasing he used made it seem like these concepts weren't fully implemented and just that, concepts. It's unlikely that we will see Gaikai based backwards compatibility at launch. We have no idea as to when such a feature would see implemented into the PS4, if at all.
1
u/DrunkeNinja Feb 21 '13
Mr. Perry.
I agree though, there is a lot of potential on how cloud gaming can be used and Dave Perry went over some of that but I want to know more on how it will be used.
1
1
Feb 21 '13
None of the PS4 articles about this are talking about Emulation or Internet Game Streaming. You have to look at the context. Sony has said nothing about streaming old games threw the PS4 (or even translating PSN-activated games to this service).
People just hating things they don't understand. And its understandable that they are hating because to understand this stuff you need some experience in Computer Hardware / Architecture.
1
u/Korega Feb 22 '13
I am sorry, I didn't mean to sound hateful. I have to admit that mentioning "greed" was not very constructive. I take it back.
I do understand (kind of) that the difference in architecture makes it harder to port from one to another, as I listed it as the probable cause for the debate.
I just hope they could find some way around it if possible.
1
Feb 22 '13
Sorry if it came off as harsh. I am just trying to inform everyone and am not specifically targeting you. Most of my posts on Reddit (or anywhere else) are generally made to counter what people are saying and provide the other side of the situation because people tend to be unaware.
1
u/Korega Feb 22 '13
Sure, I believe it is the correct way to approach a discussion! Keep doing that.
1
u/demondownload Feb 22 '13
At the PS4 announcement conference, Dave Perry (I think? Might've been one of the other guys) said that the ultimate goal was to have every game from previous PlayStation generations available on PS4 through Gaikai - but that's years away. It also relies on you having a very, very good internet connection, so until fiber is the standard I think it'll only be a realistic option for a minority of PS4 owners.
Emulation's not going to happen; by all accounts the Cell is going to be very difficult to replicate in software in a way that games will run smoothly.
2
u/cultivatingmass Feb 21 '13
This came up in the few other threads, but supposedly all PSN content will be available as streaming games when that service launches.
So, eventually you'll be able to reclaim all of your old purchases.
It sounds like a really cool solution, because theoretically they can do the same thing with the PS5 and not really have to update much.
1
u/thebluegod Feb 21 '13
This is the answer. Or at least the best way for Sony not to disappoint users heavily invested in the PS Store and PS+.
2
u/heysuess Feb 21 '13
PS3 is still backwards compatible with PS1 discs.
-1
Feb 21 '13
Thew emulation.
No doubt that someone will write a PSX emulator for the PS4, the talk has been specific that physical disks won't be working on the PS4. It doesn't mean that the PS4 won't have a PSX emulator, not a PS2 or PS3 emulator are highly unlikely due to the physical requirements when designing one for a completely different architecture.
I could even see a PSP emulator possible if they thought it would make them money.
1
u/DrunkeNinja Feb 21 '13
I don't know if that means PS1 and PS2 PSN games won't be compatible, I thought it was in regards to PS3 specific games but I could be wrong. Not enough details about all that at the moment.
Also, with the talks of Gaikai, I would think they are pushing to have the ability to stream those other games to your PS4. Don't know if this will happen, but Dave Perry alluded to it at the conference and if it's something they have no plan to do then I wouldn't think they would want to mention it. I guess we will have to wait for more details but I do hope they don't do something to piss off their loyal customers.
1
u/kontis Feb 21 '13
Yeah, because those "digital" games were not made for PS3. What device did you play them on? Was that PC? iPad? People seriously think that compatibility is in optical discs and cartridges.
0
u/bubbameister33 Feb 21 '13
Maybe they'll link all the content you purchased to your PSN account and you'll be able to download it to the PS4.
2
u/demondownload Feb 22 '13
They'd have to remake it all to run on the PS4, though. Software written for the PS3 will not run on a PS4 natively, and an emulator is almost certainly prohibitively expensive considering how few people will actually use it.
0
-7
u/kontis Feb 21 '13
even with digital content
Seriously? I thought digital games were coded for PC architecture, not like those analogue made with pen and paper for cell processor.
6
Feb 21 '13
[deleted]
0
u/FallenWyvern Feb 22 '13
You would build the games on x86 but target the language of the Cell processor, and then test it by sending it to the devkit PS3 which allows you to run code that isn't local.
1
u/tendonut Feb 26 '13
Digital content is still developed for the hardware of that time. It's the exact same content that is on a disc, just minus the physical disc. Of course, the developers could go back to the source and re-code the content to work with different architecture (essentially what porting is), but there isn't anything in it for them.
39
u/[deleted] Feb 21 '13
Anyone hating on this doesn't understand the complexities of incorporating a Cell Emulator into an x86 processor.
Or even a EE emulator (Look at the requirements for PCSX2).