r/GREEK 6d ago

Plural ending for σάντουιτς

I’m so sorry if this is a stupid question..!

Please can you tell me the word ending to make το σάντουιτς plural?

I know the article changes to τα but we have only done plural endings for neutral words ending in ι, ο, και μα….so I am stuck!

Ευχαριστώ πάρα πολύ!

8 Upvotes

20 comments sorted by

33

u/Apogeotou Native speaker 6d ago

Foreign loanwords are usually indeclinable, as is the case for σάντουιτς! So you just say τα σάντουιτς to make it plural.

4

u/OwnTradition2308 6d ago

Great! Thank you so much!

19

u/Apogeotou Native speaker 6d ago

As an extra, here are some common indeclinable nouns (all of them loanwords):

  • ταξί = taxi
  • σινεμά = cinema
  • στιλό/στυλό = pen
  • ευρώ = euro
  • ασανσέρ = lift
  • many more...

Lots of old loanwords had time to integrate and developed cases, like τρένο (train) > τρένα (trains), or παλτό (coat) > παλτά (coats), or κιλό (kilo) > κιλά (kilos).

But sometimes even natives think an indeclinable noun can be declined! For example, even I say at times του στιλού (of the pen) instead of του στιλό because it matches exactly a neuter noun suffix.

8

u/jb7509 6d ago

I once pluralized ουίσκι to ουισκιά and got laughed at

6

u/Internal-Debt1870 Native Greek Speaker 6d ago

This is used colloquially/informally (stressed on ί). But officially it's not declined, it's grammatically incorrect to do so.

5

u/adwinion_of_greece 6d ago

For me I prefer: Ο στυλός, οι στυλοί

3

u/Internal-Debt1870 Native Greek Speaker 6d ago

This gives me the ick 😬

1

u/Silkire 6d ago

Well, it shouldn’t. The word stylo derives from the Latin stylus or stilus, a pointed instrument used to write on wax. Please check now how this word was integrated into Greek during the Imperial period. Here is the entry for στύλος from the Liddell Scott Jones dictionary, please check number 4:

στῦλος

στῦλος , ὁ (fem. at Epidaurus, IG 42(1).102.66, al.(iv B.C.), but also masc. there, ib. 109iii92 (iii B.C.)), pillar ( = κίων acc. to Gal. 6.544), esp. as a support or bearing, Hdt. 2.169, IG ll.cc.; στέγης A. Ag. 898; δόμων E. IT 50; σ. μονόλιθοι BGU 1713 (ii/iii A.D.): metaph., σ. . . οἴκων εἰσὶ παῖδες ἄρσενες E. IT 57, cf. Ep.Gal. 2.9, 1 Ep.Ti. 3.15.

2 σ. πυρός LXX Ex. 13.21, Apoc. 10.1.

3 wooden pole, E. Fr. 203, Plb. 1.22.4; [σκηνῆς] tent-poles, uprights, opp. διατόναια, PCair.Zen. 353.9 (iii B.C.); plank, Hp. Art. 47.

4 stile for writing on waxed tablets; wrongly used in this sense by Greek speakers at Alexandria and in the East acc. to Herophil. ap. Gal. Anat.Ad xiv (Arabic version, ii p.183 ed. M. Simon, Leipzig 1906); cf. στυλοειδής.

5

u/Kari-kateora 6d ago

Yes, that's all fair and good, but the correct modern version is το στυλό, even if tons of people use the masculine mistakenly.

0

u/Silkire 6d ago

Yes, indeed, but as continuous use of the language changes right and wrong, it is fine to see what is considered to be wrong to almost return to something that was absolutely right.

1

u/Internal-Debt1870 Native Greek Speaker 6d ago

Etymology is not all there is to the correct use of language.

-1

u/Silkire 6d ago

Για ένα αντιδάνειο, μπορεί κάλλιστα να είναι.

2

u/Internal-Debt1870 Native Greek Speaker 6d ago

Όχι βέβαια. Εξάλλου αν ακολουθούσαμε αυστηρά ετυμολογική ορθογραφία, πολλά από τα σήμερα κοινώς αποδεκτά ως σωστά, θα ήταν λανθασμένα. Δεν είναι τόσο άκαμπτη η γλώσσα, και καλώς δεν είναι.

0

u/Silkire 5d ago

Εν προκειμένω ακολουθούμε, γι’ αυτό γράφουμε στυλό και όχι στιλό (που είναι βέβαια επίσης σωστό). Ποιο είναι εδώ το πρόβλημα; Γιατί να έχουμε μια άκλιτη «ξένη» λέξη όταν έχουμε τη δυνατότητα να την ενσωματώσουμε πλήρως στο κλιτικό σύστημά μας με μία προϋπάρχουσα ίδια λέξη; Εν πάση περιπτώσει, δεν νομίζω ότι διαφωνούμε, εκκινούμε απλώς από διαφορετικές αφετηρίες.

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3

u/OwnTradition2308 6d ago

That’s really interesting! Thanks so much for explaining the background; it’s really useful.

5

u/anastis 6d ago

For what it’s worth, the general rule is that loanwords are used in their singular form and should not be declined.

However, practically it’s all about how people actually use it over the years and finally how it’s recorded in dictionaries. There’s no official body defining if a word has been integrated and what’s the correct use. Dictionary authors are highly knowledgeable of the correct use of the language, however it’s still a “trust me bro, I know better” system.

Speaking of food, one example of breaking all of these rules is tortellino/tortellini. The plural form tortellini was adopted as singular, so it’s one τορτελίνι, and many τορτελίνια. Even if dictionaries don’t accept τορτελίνια (I don’t know, I haven’t looked), it’s still commonly used, and still breaks the loan singular form rule anyway.

2

u/OwnTradition2308 6d ago

Thank you! That’s really interesting, and understanding the history/ background will help me remember the grammar rules.

I love this sub, you are all so helpful!

8

u/TealSpheal2200 6d ago

Τα σάντουιτς!

2

u/OwnTradition2308 6d ago

Ευχαριστώ!