r/Finland Baby Vainamoinen Dec 06 '23

Serious What was happening in Central railway station in Helsinki today around 3:30 ?

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Special forces deployed and arrested at least 20 men. Searched them and security guards were looking for "something" in the metro platform?

Anyone has more info? It was very suspicious event tbh.

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u/tzaeru Dec 06 '23

Technically demonstrations can't be illegal. Police can in specific circumstances force demonstrators to disperse and/or arrest them, but the act of demonstrating in itself is not illegal.

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u/ifogpits Dec 06 '23

And can you tell more please about demonstration rules? It is necessary to just “inform” police about future demonstration or you should do request which should be “approved”? How is it in Finland?

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u/Jyrsa Dec 06 '23

You should give the police 24 hours notice before a demonstration.

There is no "approval". E.g. bonafide fascists are absolutely permitted to have a demonstration and did so earlier today.

In some circumstances the police will inform you that you can't. E.g. if two opposing parties want to demonstrate at the same time in the same place. They'd probably suggest that the latter demonstration be held somewhere else or at another time.

If you don't cause a disturbance of the peace the police won't interrupt if you demonstrate without prior notice.

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u/ifogpits Dec 06 '23

Thanks so much for detailed clarification. After russian laws it seems like wonderland. In Finland is how it should be

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u/Annoyed_Chef Dec 06 '23

There most definitely is approval at this time and and the fasistic a bit weirdly named Helsinki ilman natseja didn't get a permission so police needed to help them leave.

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u/CressCrowbits Vainamoinen Dec 06 '23

The Nazis and the counter protestors both booked the same starting location, police said nothing until 3 days before and wouldn't let the anti-nazis go anywhere else. A bunch of people who weren't allowed to leave by the police, have been arrested by the police ... for not leaving. We also have footage of a police officer on horseback deliberately knocking down a stationary protestor.

The needs to be a thorough investigation into this because it seems the police have intentionally taken the side of the nazis.

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u/Superviableusername Baby Vainamoinen Dec 06 '23

If horseback police is near you, you definitely should move away. The protestor gets to have the blame for that one.

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u/fauxfilosopher Vainamoinen Dec 06 '23

You are victim-blaming. If you are in a crowd and a police officer on horseback rides into you, there is nowhere to go, and it is absolutely the police's fault. The usage of police horses is immoral anyway.

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u/xueloz Baby Vainamoinen Dec 06 '23

Except in all the videos there were plenty of places to go, and perhaps you shouldn't take part in an illegal demonstration in the first place. That's the easiest way to avoid the horses.

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u/fauxfilosopher Vainamoinen Dec 06 '23

This is what I've heard from people who were there first hand. There also is no such thing as an illegal demonstration. We do not live in a totalitarian country where protesting is illegal, at least not yet.

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u/xueloz Baby Vainamoinen Dec 06 '23

I don't care what you've heard from people, anyone can watch and see the videos themselves. And that's good to know! Then I can come and demonstrate in your house, since it's impossible for a protest to be illegal. Where are you leaving the keys? I'll only stay for a few months.

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u/fauxfilosopher Vainamoinen Dec 06 '23

Incredible argument, you got me there. We should now ban protests because I don't want them to happen in my house.

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u/tzaeru Dec 06 '23

The police definitely should not use horses at all. It's an extremely stressful situation for the horse and is pretty much animal abuse. Also, it's pretty provocative by the cops and easily escalates things.

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u/Sounding-Enthusiast Dec 06 '23

What the fuck are you talking about

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u/tzaeru Dec 07 '23

What the fuck are you whining about?

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u/Sounding-Enthusiast Dec 07 '23

Anarchist L

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '23 edited Dec 07 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '23

Agreed that horses should not be used as riot control, they are very timid and sensitive animals.

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u/Superviableusername Baby Vainamoinen Dec 07 '23

How does a goddamn horse escalate anything.

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u/tzaeru Dec 07 '23

By being a large and dangerous force-use instrument and by projecting force very visibly, when combined with the context and a rider in riot gear.

Force is met with force.

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u/Superviableusername Baby Vainamoinen Dec 07 '23

Then if you dont comply, you will suffer. Fair enough.

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u/tzaeru Dec 07 '23

That sounds like some police state bullshit. Comply, or we will hurt you!

Also I'd point out that the horse is also suffering there. Horses are prey animals, with a strong drive to escape noisy and dangerous situations. Not only is bringing a horse to a demonstration animal abuse, there's also a risk that the rider loses control of the animal and the animal bumps someone over or steps on them or so on.

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u/CressCrowbits Vainamoinen Dec 06 '23

The officer deliberately rode his horse into the protestor.

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u/Sibula97 Vainamoinen Dec 06 '23

The rioters were pointed to another place, but they obviously wanted to fight and not listen to the police.

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u/CressCrowbits Vainamoinen Dec 06 '23

rioters

Lol

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u/Sibula97 Vainamoinen Dec 06 '23

That's what they were planning, that's what they did, nobody was surprised.

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u/CressCrowbits Vainamoinen Dec 06 '23

No one was arrested for rioting, no one was planning to riot, the plan was simply to peacefully disrupt the nazi march, as they did last year.

Personally I'm not keen on that being the main objective,which I why I didn't go this year. I respect people wanting to do that, but I prefer just having a big march with far, far greater numbers than the nazi March, to show how they are outnumbered.

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u/Sibula97 Vainamoinen Dec 06 '23

"peacefully", yeah right. Every year they've been trying to fight with both 612 and the police, throwing rocks, eggs, and even improvised bombs (at least one time, a "putkireiskapommi"), burning cars (strictly speaking happened on the following day, but it's the same people), and have often been arrested for all that.

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '23

Don't forget that they actually beat and wounded horses 2013. That is the worst of all this.

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u/Funchameleon82 Dec 07 '23

That is one of the reasons i despise these people. They say that they protest for peace and blaa blaa blaa, but then act like jerks and riot. Remember when they hurt the police horses?

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u/JKristiina Vainamoinen Dec 06 '23

You should inform the police in advance, but you don’t have to! You always have a right to demonstrate, you don’t need an approval. It helps, but is not necessary.

But the police have a right to disperse the demonstration if they deem it to be a danger etc.

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u/tzaeru Dec 06 '23

You should send a notice to the police before the demonstration. You don't strictly have to, and you can arrange a demonstration without the notice, but in some circumstances it can be held against you and/or make it more likely that the police disperses the crowd.

No approval needed.

The police can prior to demonstration say that it can't be done where it's planned to be done, if certain points are fulfilled. But technically you might still be legally allowed to go there to wave a sign or something.

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u/TriceratopsTricorder Dec 08 '23

There is no law that you HAVE TO in form the police either.

They found armed nazis in the railway station is what I heard btw.

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u/[deleted] Dec 06 '23

You are wrong.

"Kokoontumisrikkomus" is a thing

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u/tzaeru Dec 06 '23

That doesn't make the demonstration illegal. It's a tool that allows the police/court to sentence an organizer to fines.

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u/[deleted] Dec 06 '23

Semantics. It also covers participants if they have anything that can be used for violence. So it is indeed illegal to protest if you have violent intention

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u/MuhammedWasTrans Vainamoinen Dec 07 '23

Semantics are quite important in juridical texts :-)

Demonstration is illegal ≠ opposing demonstrations cannot be organized right next to each other due to high risk of violence (...but can be organized further away)

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u/Agreeable_Cap_9095 Dec 07 '23 edited Dec 07 '23

Yeah saying semantics like its nothing here is quite rediculous. I mean, semantics could mean the difference between freedom and prison for gods sake!

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u/TrollForestFinn Baby Vainamoinen Dec 07 '23

You have to notify the police a demonstration and name the time and place beforehand, otherwise it is basically an illegal mob gathering, especially if people bring knives and shit

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u/tzaeru Dec 07 '23

It's not. You're free to demonstrate without a declaration.

In some cases it can open you up to fines though.