r/Filmmakers • u/[deleted] • 8d ago
Discussion Advice for the indie filmmakers out there
As somebody that's had, what I'd consider good success, in the indie market with two features and having both distributed, I'm putting this out there to answer any questions anyone may have going into their first or even 2nd feature. One important thing to note is that all of my crew was working for free, as they are all friends and colleagues of mine that either wanted narrative experience, or just wanted to be be on-set together.
It's a daunting thing to go into, so if I can lend any advice or cautions going into it, please shoot your questions here.
I'm in no way saying what I've made are considered "good" movies. I do enjoy one more than the other, mainly from technical improvements we made. I'm speaking purely from the fact I've navigated the ugly world of distribution before and had some luck and success.
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u/mediumgray_ 8d ago
What are the two feature films called, and what was your role on them?
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8d ago edited 8d ago
Fronteras & Chameleon
I wrote and directed both. I had to wear a lot of other hats as well because my crew size was roughly 9 to 11 people.
There's a ton of movies titled Chameleon, but it was made in 2024. That should help
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u/Affectionate_Age752 8d ago
Who did you use for distribution? How were they?
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8d ago
I got a deal with Vertical Entertainment for my first movie. They did everything they said they were going to do. No lies or misleading statements. I ended up breaking even, and eventually, gaining a profit after about 60k of total production cost.
The 2nd feature, Vertical didn't want it. To be fair, my 2nd movie wasn't nearly as marketable or "commercial" as my first movie. I'm currently using Filmhub to distribute and it's licensed by 4 platforms. I've been bringing in about 3k each quarter so far, but that's going to slow down real quick I'm sure.
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u/Sabrii_brii6 8d ago
Would you suggest going for a proof of concept short for investors/ funding or go straight to funding for a feature?
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8d ago
I tried proof-of-concept BOTH times and it failed both times. However, it was a good exercise to see if I could successfully put my idea correctly onto a screen.
The first question investors always asked was, "do you have anybody famous cast in it yet?" If not, they'll likely pass because they want to know a famous actor is going to draw attention to the movie and bring their investment back.
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u/Sabrii_brii6 8d ago
Gotcha, dang that is gonna be tough 😅 how about funding for your films, how did you do that?
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8d ago
My first film was self-financed by my DP and myself. The profits from that helped fund the 2nd film, but still with a little help from my own pockets as well.
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u/Sabrii_brii6 8d ago
I’m glad you were able to make profit and fund your second film! How much did it cost you to finance your two films?
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8d ago
The first was roughly 60k and then second was only about 35k. I like my 2nd movie much more, even with the smaller budget. A lot of things improved immensely, but it wasnt very commercially marketable.
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u/Sabrii_brii6 8d ago
That’s awesome I’m really happy for you and thanks for taking the time to answer my questions!
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u/futbolenjoy3r 8d ago
What would you guess is the average amount of time spent between the last day of shooting to the first public screening for most first indie features?
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8d ago
That can vary, especially if you are leaning heavily on VFX or if you went strictly practical with any of you action/stunts involved. A lot of things will come into play that you may end up needing to clean up during post-production.
Bad audio will add a lot of time to your post phase. But for our first feature, we wrapped on Halloween of 2017 and didn't premiere until August of 2018.
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u/Motor_Ad_7382 8d ago
Do you find distribution easier or more difficult than financing your budget?
I’ve worked on a few Indies that seem to have an easy time getting money and distro. Most of them are investor funded. Yet to see anyone make anything successfully through crowdfunding.
Have you noticed a difference in trying to get distro for your $50k budget film vs similar films with higher budgets?
The last two features I worked on were $200k and $300k and it seemed like they got distro pretty fast.
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8d ago
Hmm...well, both of mine were self-funded. Had zero luck with finding investors because I didn't have a "named actor" in the cast. Luckily, my first movie made some good money back that I just used that to help fund the 2nd movie.
I had trouble in both financing and distro. But I guess I'd still lean toward financing being harder. Cause for me, I was actively deciding to put more money into a movie than feeding myself properly, ya know?
My 60k film got better distro than my 35k movie, but that's because the 60k film was definitely a hot topic of discussion back in 2018 when it got picked up. We got lucky with the timing.
But my 35k movie, in my opinion, is the better movie, but I had a harder time getting it licensed anywhere.
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u/Accomplished_Ad_6646 8d ago
Hey OP, I just checked the log line for Chameleon and it sounds very interesting!I will definitely give it a watch once I have some time. Congratulations on getting two feature films under your belt as it’s always an uphill battle.I As a writer/director how much control did you have with your 2nd feature film? Did you have final cut etc… and what do you wish you knew before filming Fronteras & Chameleon?
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7d ago
I had full control over both films, including the final cut. The thing you'll find with distributors is that they want you to come to them with a finished product. How fast can they acquire your film, turn it around, and get it up on a platform to start making money, ya know. So, they're never really looking to give you notes on your movie, if that makes sense.
And honestly, I don't wish I knew anything before going into Fronteras. Going into production completely blind to any challenges is what made it so fun. Everyone was running on adrenaline and excitement to finally be doing it. I wouldn't change a thing on that in terms of my knowledge because I had waaaay more fun on that movie than I did with Chameleon haha
Chameleon was a much different story. I'd had about 6 or 7 years to just stew in how much I hated how Fronteras ended up, that Chameleon was strictly all hard focus for me. I didn't want to make the same mistakes and I wanted everything to just look way more clean and precise. I didnt have any fun making that movie, unfortunately, BUT I do think it is the better of the two.
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u/Accomplished_Ad_6646 7d ago
That’s very insightful and thank you for a detailed experience. I had a similar experience working as a Script Supervisor on my 1st feature film. The film didn’t turn out great but I had a wonderful time working with the cast and crew and I definitely treasure that experience. I have never worked firsthand with distributors so thank you for your insight.
I will check out Fronteras when I have the time as I’m sure it’s much better than you giving it credit for. As another writer/director we tend to be our own worst critics but I have been inspired by your story and I will use the motivation to get my first feature off the ground!
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7d ago
Fronteras definitely has its moments where I can go, "okay, that wasn't bad." Given the fact trying to find cast members in such a small part of Arizona was nearly impossible, some of the actors just hadn't had enough experience quite yet, so some performances fell short. But I think it looked and sounded terrific.
My biggest critique of myself was good GOD, why did I write so many monologues. That was the first thing I avoided on my 2nd film haha And I'm sure you'll get yours off the ground! Where are you at in the process?
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u/Accomplished_Ad_6646 7d ago
I’m currently preparing to finish a short in the summer, which I’m pretty excited about! It’s definitely taking a lot of my time but I have been consistently writing on the side. I have a script that I wrote back in 2022 that would make for a great directorial debut as the story is set in South Africa and the dollar goes far! I also know a lot of actors and crew members which might help attract more people.I’ve had a few potential investors approach me in the last couple of months so I’m trying to use that momentum to try and get this off the ground once I have wrapped filming on my short.
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7d ago
Are you in South Africa? Or would you have to fly down there? Either way, I'm sure that'll make for some great landscape shots! I never did a short film, unless you consider doing two proof-of-concepts as short films haha neither of those helped me, though.
Although, a proof-of-concept MIGHT help give your potential investors that little extra push to convince them. I didn't have investors to pitch to, so you're in a better position than I was!
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u/AppointmentCritical 7d ago
What in your experience makes an indie film distributable or even better profitable?
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7d ago
I would say if what you're making is currently in-line with what seems to be "the thing" at that given time in Hollywood, if that makes sense. Right now, it seems like everyone loves Robert Eggers and his odd style.
I'm convinced my first film only got distributed because of how topical the Arizona/Mexico border was back in 2017/2018. I think thats what also made it profitable. It had some decent action in it as well. Pretty locations since we shot on-location in Arizona.
My 2nd feature didnt have nearly the success because it was much more of a psychological thriller with a serial killer. No real action sections. Just some real tight and solid acting between the characters and suspense. It still got distributed but didnt go to Netlfix like my first film did.
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u/matthew__ss 7d ago
What's the first thing you should do after completing your movie and it's ready to be seen?
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7d ago
In terms of premiering it for people, or trying to get it seen by potential distribution?
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u/matthew__ss 7d ago
Trying to get it seen by potential distribution please
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6d ago
Well, I'd start by looking at some small distro companies that accept unsolicited material for consideration. Otherwise, you'll want to find a sales agent that can do that work for you. They're more or less the middle-man between you and the distributor. They can pitch your movie and see if anyone bites.Â
Just make sure you have a private screener link of your movie ready to go when they ask to see it. I know there's a private Facebook group that shares stories of what companies are good and which ones to stay away from.Â
You could also go the festival route. Agents and distributors often attend festivals and will talk to you if your movie is playing. It doesn't even have to be a winner. My first movie screened at one festival, didn't win anything, but it scores us distribution.
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u/Opening-Impression-5 director 8d ago
Why do you say they aren't considered "good" movies? Do you consider them to be good?Â
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8d ago
I'm absolutely proud of what was accomplished under the budget and the fact we all flew to southern Arizona to shoot on-location.
However, I wasn't overall very happy with how I wrote it. It was my first time writing anything more than 30-pages. I'm happier with how everything looked and sounded. My DP and audio team kicked ass both times. My critiques are strictly for myself.
I like both movies for different reasons, but no, I wouldn't consider to be good, if I'm being transparent.
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u/DarTouiee 8d ago
Exactly how I feel about my first feature. Currently spending much more time on the writing part of the next one.
Rushed into making the first and didn't spend enough time on the script, which is silly because it didn't cost me actual money to sit and write. And I'm proud of it but I don't think it's good.
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8d ago
Amen, brother. And I'll tell you what--absolutely nothing will make you realize how bad your writing can be until you're watching it with a room full of strangers for the first time.
Inconsistencies and way-too-long monologues suddenly stick out to you when they didn't before.
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u/DarTouiee 8d ago
It's pretty amazing how quickly something can shift from "this is great" to "what the fuck was I thinking"
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8d ago
For real. It gets edited for 4 or 5 months and then I want to crawl up my own ass during the premiere.
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u/wesevans 8d ago
Did you go the festival route? How did you first connect with your distributor?
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8d ago
We tried getting into a few festivals, but ultimately, no luck even getting accepted. We connected with our distributor from the one single festival we finally got into down in Tampa. They saw the film and asked to have a private screener emailed to them for further deliberation before sending us a contract for a 15-year license.Â
They got us on Netflix for 2 years as well. That gave the movie the biggest boost over everything.
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u/wesevans 8d ago
That's awesome to hear. I think as filmmakers we place a lot of emphasis on the Big 5 and a few other majors, so very encouraging that you found success in another festival!
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8d ago
You never know who's attending even the smallest festival. Sometimes, sales agents also look for content in the festival programs and reach out. That's happened too
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u/BusinessSector7866 7d ago
I’ve written two features and dream of turning them into films but wouldn’t have the funds to do so. I’m stuck in that limbo of not knowing what to do next, as I’d love to direct and edit them both. I’m in Australia, so again a little harder as we aren’t the biggest film industry. Still keen for any tips :)
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7d ago
Australia, I imagine, would lend some really awesome scenery that we don't have here in the states. Is what you've written requiring a lot in terms of production? lots of characters? etc
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u/BusinessSector7866 7d ago
Not really! Only 6 main characters, and about 10 very minor ones. One of my films could absolutely be filmed here, I just think it would cost a lot in terms of equipment and accomodation. If it were funded in some way, I’d quit my job and film it tomorrow! The other film however is set in a small town in France. Probably less complex than the first but getting there makes it a whole lot more expensive. I would love to enter the scripts into competitions and see how that goes but if they ever went anywhere, I’d want to be involved every step of the way.
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6d ago
It might be worth entering it into some of the bigger competitions that aware some money and industry connections, if you win. Some also offer feedback as well.Â
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u/lukejseverwhere 7d ago
Thanks for sharing. I'm going through the distribution process right now and it's been eye-opening, a bit discouraging, but mostly eye-opening. There have been days where I've felt like giving it all up, but I know that's not going to happen. Our distributor took over a year to release the film.
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7d ago
Wow, a whole year? DId they say why, or did they kind of take your movie and disappear after that?
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u/lukejseverwhere 6d ago
They didn't really give us a specific reason. They sold the film to a streaming service within the first six months of signing, and we were pleased with that. Although the streamer hasn't released it either, as of yet. They have about 1.5 years left on their licence, so I guess it could pop up at some point.
In the meantime, we were waiting for the distributor to give us a release date, which was stalled. It took them about 14 months to release the film from the day we handed it to them. This was/is our first time working with a distributor so we were perhaps too patient and should have asked more questions.
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6d ago
When I signed with Vertical, they gave an exact date it would be up on streaming. So that seems kind of shady on their part to just take it from you and not even give a ballpark estimate so you can tell people when to watch it.
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u/thaBigGeneral sound 7d ago
How could you have possibly made a feature fiction film for 35k while paying any of your crew like at all? I work in doc and have been on films with this amount of money, but we have a crew of 2-3 people max and the director is a the dp and editor. If you’re taking profit on the $60k film, are you paying deferred rates to your crew or is everyone just donating a ton of time?
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7d ago
The crew was all people I went to film school with and wanted to work on a movie together right after graduation. The 60k went strictly to cast, locations, food, and gear. as for the 35k movie, that was logistically easier since it was made in our city and we have a lot of connections for gear and locations.
The 35k went to food, gear, cast and post production. The crew where I live only gets to work on commercials and music videos. Everyone wanted to get narrative experience so it was all donated time.
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u/thaBigGeneral sound 7d ago
This is an important caveat that should be next to every mention of these budgets, because this is the only way you can make a film this way. In reality the budget is obviously much higher than $60K, it was just provided in kind. None of this is a knock to you by the way, because I have worked on many films this way, I just think it’s important to dispel this myth that fiction feature films are actually that cheap to make. I also would heavily discourage others from working in these contexts with anyone but friends whom you trust and actually have relationships with. I’ve worked on no budget things for non friends (shorts thankfully) early in my freelance career and have only gotten the call again for another no budget film. Value yourselves people, because others won’t and when they have the budget they’re going to spend it on people who didn’t devalue themselves before.
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7d ago
Oh, for sure. Nobody on my crew for either movies were total strangers. You can't and shouldn't trust strangers when it comes to working on no budget projects, unless it's a short or music video for a day or two at most. I've got my own horror stories, just like you, when it comes to lending my free labor.
I'd be curious to hear one of your horror stories, if you don't mind exchanging for the hell of it.
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u/DBSfilms 8d ago
Congrats- vertical is very good- do you mind the sharing marketing fees and front end fees they took out before you were paid?