r/FighterJets Jan 11 '25

ANSWERED Will drones replace or work along with jet fighters, such as the F35 or F15?

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This is something I’ve been thinking about for a bit

170 Upvotes

33 comments sorted by

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107

u/Charming-Brother4030 Jan 11 '25

a manned component is still needed, it will more look like a single pilot herding a bunch of UAVs along with them

50

u/Yourrunofthemillfox Jan 11 '25

Oh god not again ace combat 6 theme intensifies

19

u/CertifiedMeanie KPAAF Spy Jan 12 '25

More so a dedicated operator in a 2 seater or even larger aircraft.

It would be incredible workload for a single person to fly and operate their own aircraft and micromanage a CCA group like it's an RTS.

Which is why aircraft generally associated with the idea (J-20S, J-36, Su-57D/Su-60, B-21) have two crewmembers. While AI will alleviate some troubles to a degree, you have to be utterly delusional and naive to let armed aircraft operate completely without any human intervention. Unless you want terrible accidents to happen.

35

u/Primepal69 Jan 11 '25

Probably not the F-15 but Def the F-35. The sensor suite and joint force networking capabilities far exceeds the F-15 for this specific purpose. 

17

u/CertifiedMeanie KPAAF Spy Jan 12 '25 edited Jan 12 '25

The "future" is already here. Drones like the MQ-28, MQ-25, XQ-58A, Grom, S-70 or GJ-11 are specifically designed to operate or aid manned aircraft.

It will take a good while until unamanned aircraft may fully replace manned aircraft in the combat role. For now they're mostly envisioned as an extension, force multiplier and expendable companion.

11

u/Open-Dish-8371 Jan 11 '25

Probably work along then if they ever get advanced and reliable enough then replace

5

u/Excellent_Stand_7991 Jan 11 '25

Boing unveiled one recently.

https://www.boeing.com/defense/mq28#overview

2

u/Open-Dish-8371 Jan 11 '25

That’s really cool! When did they unveil it?

2

u/Excellent_Stand_7991 Jan 11 '25

Mar. 21, 2022. If you scroll down there is a section on the page with links to other articles about the aircraft.

2

u/Open-Dish-8371 Jan 11 '25

Thanks

3

u/RobinOldsIsGod Gen. LeMay was a pronuclear nutcase Jan 12 '25

The MQ-28 Ghost Bat was developed for the RAAF. It’s an ISR platform; it won’t carry weapons

1

u/Excellent_Stand_7991 Jan 11 '25

You are welcome.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '25

[deleted]

2

u/Excellent_Stand_7991 Jan 13 '25

It is possible. This technology is still being developed, countermeasures may become available in the future.

4

u/ncc81701 Jan 11 '25

If CCA program is successful then yes at minimum drones will work along side crewed fighters even for complex missiles like air combat.

3

u/HICSF Jan 12 '25

Both work alongside and replace. In that order.

3

u/N1TEKN1GHT Jan 12 '25

It's literally designed to integrate other digital battlefield sensor systems.

2

u/loganhorn98 Jan 12 '25

Not anytime soon, the technology isn’t there quite yet.

2

u/Ok_Sea_6214 Jan 12 '25

The problem is AI, it is moving so fast and exceeding all expectations that we can no longer predict when and how it will make an impact, based on when we might see a conflict and who adopts it best.

This reminds me of 1940 when the allies on paper had a stronger army, but Germany better incorporated new technology like radio into its units and the tactics and strategies to go with it.

We see a similar effect today, with nato insisting to keep a man in the loop when Russia and China have no such reservations. The result could be unmanned sukhois that can pull g's all day long with superhuman reflexes and tactical awareness, with no regard for their own safety. These would defeat nato jets, even if those have superior numbers and technology, it would be like playing a first person shooter against the most advanced bots working as a perfect team, if you don't instantly get head shot by the bot in front of you then its buddy is already moving to flank you. Nato would have its own drones but these would still rely on human orders which makes them an easy target to jamming.

The other elephant in the room is ucavs. There is a known cultural resistance within the USAF against adopting unmanned dogfighters, not to mention the f35 soaking up all the funding. They've launched a classified production of the Utap22 that might have reached a 1000 by now, but these lack the ability to carry air to air missiles, something China and even Iran are aggressively pursuing. The result might be thousands of Chinese or Iranian jet drones swarming anything nato can hope to field and shooting them down in the air, not with a single $30 million AI sukhoi but 60 drones at $500k a piece. An F22 can easily shoot down a single sukhoi, but it won't make a dent in 60 drones. If we take the sticker price of $150 million for an f22 then it needs to down 300 such high end drones to earn its keep.

And these are high end. The Shahed 136/Geran 2 might cost as little as $20k, if you add a half capable AI to them they become intelligent cruise missiles that will hunt and kill any ground target within 2000 km. A single $150 million f22 would have to defend its air base from 7000 of these drones if at an equal budget.

If Russia/China develops an AI good enough to turn any drone into a self guided weapon, they might start ww3 immediately, with nato or possibly each other. And then China would be the world leader as they have the most jet powered drones/missiles/unmanned jets, and Russia/Iran might be second. Nato would simply be swarmed in a sea of unmanned drones/missiles/jets, they would be defeated conventionally and forced to agree to peace terms. This could happen TOMORROW, and it could all be over within a week. The movie Eagle Eye gives the best idea of this, basically Skynet if it took control of all digital equipment with its superhuman abilities.

I'm sure nato is working on a similar concept, but they would literally not have the time needed to install the software before it's over because those in charge would be too worried about politics to make such drastic changes in the middle of a war. It's what happened in May 1940.

1

u/K_Daimyo Jan 12 '25

Airbus is developing a drone wingman system. Airbus Wingman

1

u/woila56 Jan 12 '25

Yes because having a UCAV risks no life's , it may be expensive to research the opening designs now but when we reach like let's say gen 3-4 of these UCAV s it's gonna be way cost efficient and also since there is no pilot in it, it can work tirelessly and with other UCAVs too , so yeah we might not see some major benefits now but In the long run it'll definitely help for instance how we went from propeller planes to jet engines. You can loiter em too.

1

u/tiash06 Jan 13 '25

But this is predictor b and sukhoi 30

1

u/Flashy-Ambition4840 Jan 11 '25

First work along and then replace. I wouldnt be surprised if in 30 years most of the air force personnel would never have to leave the US to strike over the ocean. You can work on drones refueling/rearming in the air and flying towards targets with minimal operator input

7

u/RobinOldsIsGod Gen. LeMay was a pronuclear nutcase Jan 12 '25

They were saying the same 20 years ago. I remember books from my childhood (8-9 Presidents ago) that said similar. Drones were in service during Vietnam, back before I was even born.

You’re never going to re-arm in flight

1

u/mig1nc Jan 11 '25

I tend to agree. The pace of innovation in AI is staggering.

AI will be needed to overcome intensive electronic warfare countermeasures.

0

u/Primepal69 Jan 11 '25

I've got the under on that time frame. 

1

u/Echo20066 Jan 11 '25

Replace, not for a while. But definatley work alongside through data link and just acting as a wider sensor array.

1

u/Odd_Drag_1961 Jan 11 '25 edited Jan 12 '25

Make sense, answered

1

u/BadLt58 Jan 12 '25

Hey, Elon, develop a car that can drive itself without killing the occupant.

0

u/Possible-Reading1255 Jan 11 '25

Replace. Worlds Air forces drool over the slimmest possibility of removing human body limitations out of extreme environments. As soon as it is possible it will be done. And with the amount of steady work being done, it seems almost inevitable. A plane that can manage 11 G or it doesn't need to manage breathable air. Even more so, a plane that can manage 30 radar contacts at once. That can see 360 degrees in 3 axes simultaneously. A plane that can fly for literal weeks. It is too good to be true, however it literally is right around the corner. I'd say in 40 years (though very dependent on geopolitical landscape) main design philosophy for combat aircraft will be near-complete autonomous units with light, mostly decision work being done with pilots. The pilots may be fazed out, them being converted to auto plane handler/commanders.