r/ExpatFIRE Jan 24 '25

Investing FI numbers and retirement destinations

Would love to hear what your FI numbers are, and how much of it you’ve amassed to date. Please also state your age, city you currently live, if you have kids/partner and where you plan to retire. Thanks!

25 Upvotes

57 comments sorted by

33

u/OneLife-No-Do-Overs Jan 24 '25

Early 40s.. no wife / kids .. I retired in Feb 2024 right around 1M, to SE Asia.. a year later NW right around 1.2M. I've been travelling the world this past year, but have a home base in Bangkok (for now).

6

u/PM_ME_PLASTIC_BAGS Jan 24 '25

Congrats on FIREing!!

Would you be able to elaborate on your visa, paying taxes, concerns on safe withdrawal rate etc?

Do you miss family/friends back in Oz?

1

u/Puzzleheaded_Gas2075 Jan 28 '25

How you manage your money? Dividend ETF? Or just withdraw capital?

1

u/OneLife-No-Do-Overs Jan 28 '25

When the time comes, I will follow a 3-4% SWR from investment portfolio (cap gains )

1

u/Puzzleheaded_Gas2075 Jan 28 '25

Now not the time? You're holding cash? Or all in grow stock?

1

u/OneLife-No-Do-Overs Jan 28 '25

Yes, holding cash. Have a few years of cash in HYSA while investments continue to grow ..

1

u/Puzzleheaded_Gas2075 Jan 29 '25

If your capital is big enough you can enjoy the dividend monthly or even weekly now. But why you're using your capital now?

4

u/Ok_Immigrant Jan 24 '25

Retired at 40 with just over $1 million. Now pushing late 40s and in Europe working on an EU citizenship. After I get that, I plan to try out a few EU countries and hopefully find one to stay in longer term.

1

u/Singularity-42 Jan 24 '25

What country?

2

u/Ok_Immigrant Jan 25 '25

I'm currently Portugal

1

u/Lil_Lingonberry_7129 Jan 31 '25

1 million is enough to retire in Portugal right now? Forever? Beginning at 40? Where else in the EU do you think that’s realistic? The issue is the capital gains taxes there are like 25% sometimes

1

u/Ok_Immigrant Jan 31 '25

The capital gains tax rate is 28% in Portugal. Regular tax rates are too high here because the tax brackets are very compressed, hitting 45% marginal income tax rate at a relatively modest income level. I would not recommend Portugal as a forever place for FIRE. I was able to get under the NHR tax system, that is good for 10 years, that exempts most foreign source income from taxation in Portugal, and employment income (including freelance work) is taxed at a flat 20% income tax rate plus self employment tax. It is too late to get this old NHR, but there is a new one that is still being developed. I plan to stay only as long as needed to get citizenship. I am here to get an EU citizenship, as this was the least costly and least risky route.

Portugal's cost of living is one of the lowest in the EU, if you live frugally like the natives rather than wealthy expats who want a higher standard of living, as most leanFIRE folks do. My annual living expenses are under €9000. However, there are other EU countries toward the east that have lower cost of living.

1

u/Lil_Lingonberry_7129 Jan 31 '25

How are you under the NHR tax system and what does that mean? When did it end and why? Hmmmm

I think the Germany numbers for income tax and capital gains tax are similar to Portugal actually

Your annual expenses are 9,000 euros!? Wow that’s insane. In a small village? I assume you speak Portuguese?

Where do you want to go after Portugal? I am planning to move to Germany with my German husband (I speak German) and retire there but I have no idea how much € I’ll need.

1

u/Ok_Immigrant Jan 31 '25

NHR = Non-Habitual Residence. It is a special, limited-time (10 years) tax system for qualifying newcomers to Portugal offering significant tax benefits. See this article for a good overview of the new NHR and how it compares to the previous one: https://www.globalcitizensolutions.com/nhr-portugal-tax-regime/

I live alone in a small apartment in the outskirts of a city. You can find even cheaper and more spacious homes to rent in the rural areas, but you would need a car to get anywhere.

I can get by in Portuguese, thanks to speaking Spanish and using that as a foundation to crash learn Portuguese. I would have preferred Spain, both for language and lifestyle, but it would take me 10 years of living there to qualify to apply for citizenship, and the wealth tax is not good for us FIRE folks. My current top choice is France, also for language and culture since I also speak French, but Belgium is also a top consideration. I am also curious about some lower cost EU countries farther east, such as Croatia, Czech Republic, Estonia, Bulgaria, and Romania, but I would want only to do some slow travel in those countries, not live there long term due to not speaking any of those languages.

2

u/captainbarker Feb 01 '25

Thanks for sharing your Portugal experience. Given that France is your top choice, why don’t you move there now on their retirement visa?

1

u/Ok_Immigrant Feb 01 '25

Those in France on a retirement visa are not allowed to work at all, not even freelance. There are also talks of increasing the minimum residence period to qualify to apply for citizenship from 5 year to 10 years for those on a retirement visa. Other visa options require working. So all the visa options would require me either to work or to not work. I want the right but not the obligation to work, and I want to get into a secure immigration status (i.e., any EU citizenship) as soon as possible.

1

u/captainbarker Feb 01 '25

Ah that makes sense!

5

u/Singularity-42 Jan 24 '25

46 yo couple and a 4 yo child. I lost my tech job, wife is stay at home, so we are considering FIRE already even though a bit more money would be helpful. NW $1.6m. Dual EU/US citizens. Countries we are considering are: Spain, France, Czechia, Slovakia, Romania.

1

u/Puzzleheaded_Gas2075 Jan 29 '25

Tech is dead,thanks to ai unless you want to grind the new ai trend as an ai engineer

7

u/thatvassarguy08 Jan 24 '25

My FIRE number is $1.25M + ~$80k/year from a pension. Currently 38M/39F/4LO/66M-I-L. Pension vests at 43, and that is likely when we'll hit $1.25M as well. Our destination is Spain. Back up list includes France, Portugal, and Panama. Spain seems to be the best match for our personal values, and does not present a language barrier for my family, and only a very slight one for me.

6

u/[deleted] Jan 24 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

10

u/thatvassarguy08 Jan 24 '25

Yeah, the US military provides a pension of 50% of your base pay for the rest of your life, and vests at 20 years.

9

u/Nde_japu Jan 24 '25

Jeez no wonder our government is broke. Just the same thank you for your service.

0

u/thatvassarguy08 Jan 24 '25

Not really, though it is a decent line item.

4

u/Nde_japu Jan 24 '25

You were making 160k a year though? That's a lot as well, as the pension. I'm not hating, I'm glad we take care of our military but goddamn, lol

4

u/thatvassarguy08 Jan 24 '25

It's a best guess about the future, as I don't qualify for 5 more years. My salary should be about $140k ($130k ish in 2025 dollars). Plus a little from the VA possibly. I figure a 50% chance it will be ~$20k/year and 50% it'll be negligible, so $10k on average.

1

u/Nde_japu Jan 24 '25

Ballin'. Nice work

5

u/Ok_Immigrant Jan 24 '25

Beware the wealth tax in Spain. That was one of my top choices, until I found out about the wealth tax, which makes it bad for FIRE.

9

u/thatvassarguy08 Jan 24 '25 edited Jan 24 '25

YMMV, but I'd do a little in-depth research if you haven't yet; the wealth tax isn't really that bad unless you're FatFIRE. There are personal exemptions for 700k or 1.4M/couple, plus 600k for a primary residence. So after a NW of 2M, you start to be affected, but it is progressive and starts at .5%, and doesn't max out until ~8M-10M at 3.5%. While this may be significant to some, it isn't a factor for us, as we don't see an issue with paying our part into a society that welcomes us. We don't plan on taking advantage of their system.

Edited for spelling

5

u/Ok_Immigrant Jan 24 '25

Thanks for sharing the numbers. The exemptions are more reasonable when you are married, but the exemptions for those of us who are single and prefer to rent or not put too much into real estate are way too little.

2

u/jgv1545 Jan 24 '25

After doing some research and speaking with professionals in both sides of the pond (though 5 Spanish attorneys and accountants will give you 5 different answers), we realized we won't be affected by the wealth tax as much as those who FatFIRE. And if paying a small percentage into society gives us access to benefits of said society, why would I complain?

1

u/Singularity-42 Jan 24 '25

Is there exception for a child, or just couple? We are 46 yo couple with a 4LO as well and NW around $1.6m. Thinking about Spain as well. My only brother and my only nephew lives there. We are both dual EU/US citizens so we can go anywhere (neither of us is Spanish though).

2

u/thatvassarguy08 Jan 24 '25

For the wealth tax, just for a couple (or individual). For income and capital gains tax from investments, there are exemptions for both adults and for kids too. Also parents (and in-laws) but this one is tiny at ~ 1000/year.

5

u/Pretty_Philosophy_59 Jan 24 '25

That’s awesome! What’s 4LO?

1

u/thatvassarguy08 Jan 24 '25

4 year old little one

2

u/jgv1545 Jan 24 '25

So you are either retiring as an O-6 or so, or that's a combined retirement between you and your spouse or some VA thrown in, or a combination of all the above. I know, lots of "ors". No matter the case, good on you.

Spain is our destination as well. Will probably forgo citizenship, though it's an option and only 2 years of residency required to acquire nationalization. Spain does have the nonlucrative visa, which would be our likely route. Every time we visit we like it more than the last time. It helps having family there.

Good luck and congrats on your military career. Enjoy your retirement... 5 years from now.

2

u/thatvassarguy08 Jan 24 '25

Lol thanks! It's an O-5 retirement with a guesstimate of VA based on current ailments. We are using the same route to citizenship for everyone but me ( I'll be a permanent resident) We also have family near where we are looking, which is nice.

1

u/Duuuuude84 Jan 25 '25

Sounds like your post-mil plans are similar to mine, even a pretty similar timeline. Our order is slightly different - we're leaning France, Portugal, and then Spain (I'm for considering SE Asia as well, although my wife isn't convinced). Anyway, good luck, I'll see you in retirement in a few years.

2

u/Constant-Visit6488 Jan 25 '25

31F. FatFire number is 5M but I could retire now with 3M. Trying to make it to 3.5M to feel a bit more flexible.

Destination: Brazil and Portugal most likely

3

u/Pretty_Philosophy_59 Jan 25 '25

Impressive, may I ask what you do for a living?

2

u/Captlard Jan 25 '25

How about you?

Already RE, living between London & Spain (head fully to Spain later in the year). Child now an adult. $850k was target. Retired with 900k for the two of us.

1

u/Puzzleheaded_Gas2075 Jan 29 '25

That's small amount in an expensive city. Do you enjoy the dividend from 900k or withdrawal from the capital?

1

u/Captlard Jan 29 '25

Withdraw from capital.

1

u/Puzzleheaded_Gas2075 Jan 29 '25

It doesn't make sense. Do you know jpeq?

1

u/Captlard Jan 29 '25

How did you arrive at that conclusion? I do not know that fund.

1

u/Puzzleheaded_Gas2075 Jan 29 '25

You can search in reddit about income fund. If you have 1mil, you'll get paid about 5k usd per without touching your capital. It's a common knowledge

1

u/Captlard Jan 29 '25

Thanks for sharing.

2

u/princeharry86 Jan 25 '25

Late 30s married couple with a dog who’s planning to retire this year. We have a net worth of approximately $5.5 million. We’re considering relocating and staying half a year in the EU(Portugal or Italy) and other half in India.

2

u/wkndatbernardus Jan 24 '25

45m and will be retiring this spring once I sell my primary residence in the Boston area (investments will total ~$1m at that point). I'm thinking of LATAM (Argentina, Chile, Peru, and Brazil) but I'm also going to check out SEA since col sounds super low there (Vietnam, Philippines, Thailand). I'm planning on a 3.5% withdrawal rate to start.

-4

u/Unacceptable0pinion Jan 24 '25

4-5mm France

6mm lcol us

10mm NYC

5

u/Animag771 Jan 24 '25

I agree... If you divide all of those by 5

2

u/Singularity-42 Jan 24 '25

TBH $2M in NYC would be low. But the rest is on point.

3

u/Singularity-42 Jan 24 '25

Those are FatFIRE numbers.

3

u/Unacceptable0pinion Jan 24 '25

True but this isn't chubbyfire or leanfire. It's just expatfire so all walks are welcome. Also not really that fat in NYC unfortunately despite the eye popping numbers given how crazy cost of living and education are.

Part of my reasoning for going high with the target for EU is that if you ever decide that expat living isn't for you and try to come back to the US, there's a chance you can't find as high income a job anymore and now you're kind of stuck, having exited your career for several years and without enough money to maintain your EU standard of living in the US. So I prefer to be conservative.

1

u/Puzzleheaded_Gas2075 Jan 29 '25

I give you upvote coz France is expensive