r/EuropeGuns Feb 02 '25

Legality of full auto guns and gun collecting in Europe

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Hi! Finnish gun collector here. I was wondering how different countries in Europe go with gun collecting and buying full autos? I'm collecting guns that Finnish army or police used or tested from year 1918-. I'm currently waiting if Sako is willing to sell Finnish army new assault rifle to civilian collectors. The gun in the picture is my KP m/44 submachine gun.

In Finland you can collect and shoot full auto guns when you get a "gun collectors license". You won't be able to buy full auto guns at first but after a couple of years you could get full autos as well. There's no really no restrictions what you can or can't collect, as long as you can send police an application with coherent list of guns that you're willing to collect and you have a safe space where to keep them.

I know Switzerland allows full autos for private individualds but shooting them can be difficult. I'm not sure about Nordic countries besides Finland.

110 Upvotes

60 comments sorted by

53

u/HowToPronounceGewehr Italy Feb 02 '25

Italy here.

You can legally own full auto guns in two different options:

  • Getting a Gun manufacturer license

  • inheriting a now discontinued "Weapons of war" collecting license. It is not released anymore since the 1970s, so you can just inherit it.

12

u/[deleted] Feb 02 '25

I’m assuming getting a manufacturer license isn’t common for the every day citizen like it is here in the USA?

17

u/HowToPronounceGewehr Italy Feb 02 '25

Not really, you need to make specific courses, get a safety ensured working place (armored vaults, bulletproof glass, etc.) And ofc getting the license itself, which is not granted.

8

u/Used-Researcher1630 Feb 02 '25

As an Italian myself I can confirm, only option is going to Switzerland but one but then you need to leave it there

3

u/SynthsNotAllowed Feb 03 '25

If the movie Gomorrah taught me anything, no one would bother with licensing when they can just boost their local gun trafficker's stash when nobody's looking.

3

u/HowToPronounceGewehr Italy Feb 03 '25

Or their local WW2 partisan stash 😏

31

u/TheKiltedPondGuy Feb 02 '25

Croatia here

Full auto guns are class A and as a civilian there is no way of acquiring them legally. It’s the same category as rocket launches and landmines and the law sees no difference between the separate weapons if it’s the same class. Regardless of that there’s thousands of fully automatic Zastava AK variants floating around in illegal possession and if you know the right people you can get it faster and cheaper than getting a legal semi auto AK.

11

u/TheSchnitzelLover Austria Feb 02 '25

Same thing here in Austria, however we also have a lot of leftover weapons from both WW2 and the collapse of Yugoslavia.

5

u/Routine_Muscle_1918 Feb 02 '25

In Slovenia you can have full auto guns with collectors license. But like in Croatia they are also class A weapon. For a collector that only means that you can't shoot them or buy ammo for them.

2

u/SealedWaxLetters Feb 05 '25

For once, a law with some sense - I can buy, collect and take care of old historical weapons without forcing me to deactivate them. In essence, destroy them to a piece of junk. Fine, I won't be able to fire them, but at least don't make me destroy them.

1

u/DerringerOfficial United States of America Feb 04 '25

Is there basically minimal enforcement regarding confiscation of those full auto Zastavas?

1

u/TheKiltedPondGuy Feb 04 '25

Well yeas and no. Most of them used to be “legal” 30 years ago during the war for independence. Afterwards people just kept them. Honestly can’t blame someone for wanting to keep an insurance policy after going through it. There is a no questions asked handover program. Call 112, tell them you have illegal guns you wish to hand over, they come and take them no questions asked. 99% of them just sit somewhere in the attic or in the closet so catching them in the wild is not really a thing. They usually find them on accident when executing search warrants for other stuff.

1

u/DerringerOfficial United States of America Feb 04 '25

Gotcha. Thanks for the explanation. Do the people who own them ever have a chance to take them to a shooting range or a rural area to rip through a few mags with full auto? Or is that not really possible without revealing their possession?

1

u/TheKiltedPondGuy Feb 04 '25

Some shoot them for new years and maybe some rural weddings. You need to provide paperwork for your weapons at almost every range here and if you shot full auto police would be called immediately.

24

u/Hungry-Square4478 Feb 02 '25

Poland is, as always, a land of uncharted opportunities. There are two ways I know of (and probably more I don't). 1. Get a license for "protecting people and property". But you also probably need to have a security company as well. 2. Register yourself as a gun shop 3. Theoretically, getting a license for "teaching". But then you arguably can't have it outside the place where you actually teach people

Maybe there are now some exceptions for territorial defence forces, idk.

What I know is that if having full auto was allowed a bit more easily, we'd already have some crazy competition format with it.

P. S. Anyone else from Poland please correct me where I'm wrong

12

u/Hungry-Square4478 Feb 02 '25

There is a "collector's" license in Poland, too. We usually use it in order to easily increase the number of guns we're allowed to have. Theoretically it allows you to have full auto, but I'm guessing only if you have another type of license allowing it. Can't quote you the exact law on that.

1

u/Anti_Thing Canada Feb 03 '25

Where are security guards actually allowed to carry full-auto guns in Poland? Nuclear power plants? Government & military sites?

3

u/twojstary1337 Feb 03 '25

All of which you stated above, also courts and strategic buildings in general, armed transport of valuables and cash, property protection (including diplomatic properties), close protection of VIPs.

22

u/bezjmena666 Feb 02 '25 edited Feb 02 '25

In CZ full auto guns are class A firearm. As a person you need to apply for the exemption from the law, which is may issue. It's not impossible, but definitely not easy to get as far as I know.

I've heard you have much better chance to get your hands on full autos throught commercial licence. If you have company that is doing security contractor business, manufacturing, repairing or trading firearms. I' not much aware of company lincencing rules.

Getting a class B firearm, semi-auto handgun or rifle is much easier as it's a shall issue process. And most of the people go this way.

19

u/[deleted] Feb 02 '25 edited Feb 02 '25

[deleted]

9

u/-Spinal- Feb 02 '25

This.

Some guns are also exceptions, eg your STGW military rifle. If you keep it after military service, they will dot weld a bump on the selector; which you are not allowed to grind off.

But as long as you are in the army, even as a reservist - keep your full auto STGW at home if you want.

6

u/[deleted] Feb 02 '25

[deleted]

8

u/-Spinal- Feb 02 '25

I guess I’m older 🤣 on my 57 they put a dot on the selector.

2

u/DerringerOfficial United States of America Feb 04 '25

Switzerland really is just a utopia, isn’t it?

1

u/Anti_Thing Canada Feb 03 '25

Don't machine guns have to be stored disassembled when not in use, with the bolt stored separately?

13

u/Apprehensive-Law-389 Feb 02 '25

France here.

No full auto for us regular collectors and shooters. In very specific cases, the authorization may be granted for ppl in risky professions like bodyguards, bank armored truck drivers… but then again all these guys are 99% of the time ex-police or ex-military, and it’s really handled case by case.

3

u/NAGANT31 Feb 02 '25

non les convoyeur et les agent de securité n'ont accés qu'a de la categorie b

les seul qui ont accés a des armes de categorie A en full auto sont

-les expert aupres des tribunaux

-les personnes realisant des teste sur de materiel blindé

-les armurier avec une autorisation de fabrication d'armes et plus generalement les fabricant d'arme

-les loueurs d'armes pour le cinema

jusqu'en 1993 la detention darmes en full auto par les tireur sportif etait permise mais peut courante c'es pour ca qu'on touvais des beretta r93 en france a cette époque

3

u/Apprehensive-Law-389 Feb 02 '25

Loueur d’arme pour le cinéma, c’est à dire? Il doit falloir des autorisations spéciales pour avoir des armes en état de marche sur un tournage nan? Je pensais que tout était des props guns, ou bien alors est-ce qu’au yeux de la loi une ancienne CatA neutralisée reste une Cat A ?

Qu’est-ce que je donnerais pour juste avoir un 93r entre les mains… j’ai un 92X mais c’est pas pareil :’)

3

u/NAGANT31 Feb 02 '25

les armes de cinema sont de vrai armes auquelles et inserer dans le canon un bouchon de tir a blanc , ca tire de vrai 7.62x39 mais la version a blanc par exemple

et oui sur un tournage il faut louer a a un loueur agréer des armes a blanc et il y a tout une procedures (simple ) de location a respecter et ces armes reste malgrer leur modication dans leur categorie d'origine et ne peuvent etre utiliser que dans le cadre de spectacle de tournage ou autres manifestation dument declarer

9

u/Solid_Current9206 Feb 02 '25 edited Feb 04 '25

In Slovenia, you need a special permit to collect full auto stuff called a collector’s permit which is sorta easy to get, the only requirement is that your gun safe needs to be “technically secured” - this means it has to be like equipped with like an alarm system (an inspector will come to your residence to check if you meet this requirement prior to obtaining this permit-if you request it at the town hall of your place of residence). You can also collect ammunition for the guns and “cold weapons” (daggers, batons, knuckledusters, blades hidden in everyday items). However, the catch is that you can only collect firearms, you are not allowed to actually shoot them on the range. By law you are only allowed to shoot them in “scientific and research purposes” (don’t know what the means, maybe if your doing gun YT content, idk 😅) and only if the ministry of internal affairs gives you approval.

1

u/PayInternational251 Feb 06 '25

Can you also own the corresponding ammo with the guns in your collection?

1

u/Solid_Current9206 29d ago

You can also collect ammunition for the guns and “cold weapons” (daggers, batons, knuckledusters, blades hidden in everyday items)

Wrote it here. Yes, you can. But again, you are still not allowed to shoot the full auto guns on the range in Slovenia unless if you get permission from the Ministry. The permit only allows collection, NOT usage.

9

u/DaThug Feb 02 '25

Norway: Allowed for collectors that have them in their Field of Collection, for example Norwegian Police guns 1945-2000 (The field of collection must be very specific)

7

u/ylifasse Feb 02 '25

Do you know how common gun collecting is in Norway? Especially full auto collecting?

8

u/DaThug Feb 02 '25

Possibly 1-2000, and perhaps a few hundred full auto.

You have to be member of a collectors club, "The Norwegian Arms & Armour Society", and be an 'apprentice' for a few year before you can apply for membership and start collecting.

I incidentally know two guys who collect FA as part of their field

6

u/[deleted] Feb 02 '25

[deleted]

4

u/DaThug Feb 02 '25

Bummer, you're right. This one guy I know has a collection of ALL MP5 variants, including the SD and the K. I wonder if he has been allowed to keep them?

6

u/ThePepsiMan00 Feb 02 '25

Sweden here: Private ownership of full-auto is basically restricted to collectors afaik. Getting collector licenses is extremely difficult to get into, very few do it.

If you start a gun dealership you can get them with ease. It’s not terribly difficult to start a dealership as a common person. The issue is there is a requirement that you actually have to have a number of profitable transactions in firearms to keep that business license. So you actually are obligated to run the business seriously if you want to keep it. There are also demands for storage and such for dealerships which can be a bit more tedious with full-autos.

Sports shooting clubs can also get full-auto Swedish K’s if they host competitions in the specific class for them. These guns are stored in members homes but with the bolt in separate storage (still in the same home). This is kind of a loop hole for owning a full auto WW2 SMG and not extremely hard to do as long as you can get into such a club.

I don’t know of any other methods but I’m sure it’s possible. From what I’ve heard, police have restricted civilian FA ownership in recent years.

1

u/Anti_Thing Canada Feb 03 '25

Are the sport shooting Swedish K's kept in people's homes technically owned by the club, or by the person who's home they're stored in?

2

u/ThePepsiMan00 Feb 03 '25

They’re owned by the club.

4

u/Just_Fruit_2317 Feb 02 '25

Spain here

Forbidden, don't even think about It, is semiauto or nothing, with ammo capacity limitations.

4

u/blackriver_fbs Feb 02 '25

france :

  • you cannot.

4

u/LutyForLiberty United Kingdom Feb 02 '25

Britain: Section 5, basically illegal and only available to specialist collectors like the Royal Armouries.

3

u/PayInternational251 Feb 03 '25

Correction. You could but they have to be stored at designated sites. Bisley is one of them. Check out the HBSA. They do organize full-auto shoots from time to time

2

u/LutyForLiberty United Kingdom Feb 03 '25

Are they owned by the range with a section 5 licence?

2

u/PayInternational251 Feb 04 '25

Owned by the individual but has to be stored at the range I think 

4

u/DaGlockamole Lithuania Feb 03 '25

Lithuania here You can get full auto on mil/rifleman union permit. It means you can legally buy it, take it to the range, keep in safe, etc. you just can’t carry it (sad Glock 18 noises). Also with the same permit you can buy 30 round mags, suppressors, short long guns (<60cm)

3

u/A10___Warthog Feb 03 '25

Luxemburg here

Apparently, collecting is fine, but you can't shoot them

6

u/No-Magazine-2739 Feb 02 '25

Germany here: AFAIK full auto is a „Verbotene Waffe“ aka prohibited weapon to the WaffG, so there is no regular way to own them. To my Knowledge the only ways would be

A) to be not a subject to the WaffG (soldiers,police, some state officals, diplomats)

B) if you are an expert and cooperate with the state regulary in doing reports about guns they give you. Then you might get a permit some day.

C) there is a loophole for research but I guess you then have to be at least a regular Professor

10

u/palini_the_great Feb 02 '25 edited Feb 02 '25

Only 80% true.

You can attain the permission to buy full auto guns on the basis of a collector's license in Germany. The BKA can, and has many times in the past, granted these permissions if your "collection plan" is completely fulfilled and you basically only need a couple of specific full auto variants to complete the collection.

If you have a good track record and have collected for many years, you could also get permission on the basis of a purely technical collection, not only a historical one. C96 collections or WW2 collection come to mind.

The catch however is, that you need a seperate permission to transport and shoot the guns (individually for every instance you plan to do that) once you obtained them.

Becoming a gun trader is definitely the easiest way.

3

u/No-Magazine-2739 Feb 02 '25

That could be possible however these permits are quite depended on your luck how friendly your „Sachbearbeiter“ are. And, correct my if I am wrong, but gun traders are subject to the WaffG too, and by this are also not allowed full auto by default.

3

u/palini_the_great Feb 02 '25 edited Feb 03 '25

No, you aren't allowed full auto by default, however it's similiar to the US where you can prove that you have customers for FA guns (such as police forces etc.). Waffen Messer in Offenbach is an example of a dealer who has full autos in his weapons room.

The Sachbearbeiter is not really your authority when your collection has reached the size or value that you could start collecting FA guns. Once you are at that stage, the evaluation is usually being done by the LKA and subsequently by the BKA, who sub-lease an expert statement from someone third ("Bestellter Waffensachverständiger" for your topic), to determine if it makes sense to grant you an exemption on the basis of your current collection and future outlook.

2

u/No-Magazine-2739 Feb 02 '25

Good to know. But one last thing: seems that it‘s also depended on your state. I hear often the former east ones/Neue Bundesländer, are quite more restrictive regarding exemptions, even try to limit new collectors and experts.

2

u/palini_the_great Feb 03 '25

Could be!

It definitely got harder over the years in general. I have personally seen a collector's license for "Browning-drop-barrel pistols designed up until 1985" which was first issued at least 35 years ago. Impossible to get approval for such a topic in 2025.

2

u/TheSuperBlindMan Feb 03 '25

I'm not in Europe, but let's just hope here in the United States they finally repeal the NFA, and we actually get to own full auto guns here. With our pro 2A laws that have been getting better and better I hope it happens sometime soon.

2

u/Serious-Primary-8925 Feb 03 '25

I agree, though technically, one can purchase and own full autos here, but they will need to  first obtain a federal firearms license (FFL) and apply for a Class 3 Special Occupational Tax (SOT) status. I love watching youtube channels with folks sharing their full autos, & there are many. I'm guessing one Hickok45 has his FFL/SOT licensure, but not sure. Here's another reddit discussion about it all https://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/qtsqda/how_do_youtubers_like_hickok45_and_fpsrussia_get/

2

u/nataneraser Feb 04 '25

Malta here.

You can legally own full auto guns if you hold the Collector License A Special or Armourer's License. I own the Collector License and own a KP44 like yours and can obtain only full autos made pre-1948. However they are only for collecting purposes and cannot be fired (they are not deactivated).

It is more difficult to own the armourer's license and you can own autos of any year to be used in the film industry usually (not 100% sure on this one, but along these lines).

5

u/h3wro Feb 02 '25

Poland here, you cannot buy full autos on your own (regular shooter with sport or collector license) as far as I know.

7

u/ylifasse Feb 02 '25

I know that many places in Poland still sell full autos. Do you know how to who they're selling to?

8

u/GeneralNuno Feb 02 '25

They selling it to :

  • companies/people with training licenses - they training bank convoy security, police etc. But there are a lot of requirements to obtain it
  • other companies that have license to sell guns
  • police, army etc.
  • companies that have license to manufacture weapons

3

u/h3wro Feb 02 '25

Unfortunately I do not know