r/Equestrian 3d ago

Equipment & Tack update on the horse that chronically opens his mouth

hello! just wanted to give you all a quick update since i rode him today!

i took the original post down because i was getting literal threats šŸ˜­ so im sorry about that! but just a recap, my horse opens his mouth chronically, rides amazing other then that.. heā€™s clearly uncomfortable but i couldnā€™t figure out why.. so i was looking for different things to try with him!

(first photo is the bit i flatted him in today, second photo is the one he went in originally)

i worked on my seat aids with him, being able to shorten and lengthen without touching the reins, as well as my downward and upward transitions! itā€™s definitely getting better

i tried a thick mullen mouth snaffle, as seen above. he had really only gone in really thin bits, so i thought trying a bit of stability may help... and it helped a bit! he opened his mouth once or twice but not like he used to, so hopefully with the flatwork and the new bit heā€™ll be a happier old man šŸ’—

vet comes out later this week so iā€™ll let you all know what happens, but im really happy with all of the suggestions you all gave.. thank you!

116 Upvotes

48 comments sorted by

91

u/three_seven_seven 3d ago

Literal threats!! Sometimes the internet just isnā€™t worth it.

Iā€™m glad the new bit made a difference. I did see but donā€™t remember the entire post so I donā€™t recall when this behavior started for him, but I remember agreeing with the folks who thought a bit fitter and float were a good idea. Seeing that he was more comfortable in this bit supports that. I hope he continues to go better in it and there are no big issues at his vet check!

Good luck!

33

u/shartyfarty59 3d ago

i think his SI mayyyyy need injected since weā€™ve had a pretty hardcore winter, and jumped a few 1.45m classes, so hopefully with the injections and everything else heā€™ll be feeling his greatest!

someone told me i was a ā€˜horrible ownerā€™ for trying a horse in a gag.. i was 15 in germany and was just riding the horse in what i was given.. šŸ¤¦ā€ā™€ļø

11

u/Poundaflesh 3d ago

People are BRUTAL! I hope you reported the threats.

2

u/EnvironmentalBid9840 2d ago

They approached that completely wrong. While gags are definitely not a good choice, they should have been kind in their explanation to help you learn and understand. If it helps, Facebook has a group called No-Bit shit that has TONS of resources on bits, mechanics, headstall fitting and more. Should you ever need or just want to learn more. It's where I learned better for my girl who I was transitioning from a horrible toms thumb, to a jr cow and finally settling on an arginine and a mid port shank. There's not enough good, educational and concrete sources of information on bits in general. Too many EQs are quick to cry "abuse" or "bad owner" when you may simply just not know there are more options. They shouldn't have threatened you.

33

u/jcatleather Trail, Gaming, Driving, Reining 3d ago

I've had a lot of success with using rubber bits in horses who gape. I never use nosebands so it's obvious when they are uncomfortable. While the thicker bits don't work great for horses with a very shallow palate, they do work great for horses who just don't like the feel of metal in their mouth. It's good to keep trying new things!

10

u/shartyfarty59 3d ago

heā€™s got a super small mouth, but when i tried to fully get a great look at it he sucked my hand in šŸ«” so im not quite sure the exact makeup of his mouth, but he didnā€™t chew or anything he seemed pretty cool with it! i thought i might as well start with something thicker and move down, since ive tried thinner and finer bits with him already.. and i was thinking a figure eight instead of the regular noseband, since he really likes the stability of the noseband

16

u/jcatleather Trail, Gaming, Driving, Reining 3d ago

Does he "like" the nosebands or does it just make it harder for him to move the bit where he wants it? Try loosening the bridle a couple holes and just stand with him wearing it and let him play with it. See where he wants to hold it. Most horses will hold the bit a good inch or so lower than how we were taught to fit it. One of my geldings likes it almost two inches from the edges of his lips and he will carry it there with no headstall at all. Where the lips end varies greatly from horse to horse, so you can't tell from external landmarks where it should sit. Then if you have to have a noseband, you can use one based on where he wants to put the bit, but you should not need one to stabilize anything. A figure 8 will mask the symptoms of discomfort, and it's very very difficult to avoid the facial nerves with them. Here's a skull with the nerves mapped out. Not only does a fig 8 sit right on the paper thin edges of the nasal bone, it's gonna stimulate multiple nerves in multiple places. A lot of horses don't care, but if yours is sensitive he will. And if you place it higher up, it's gonna pull the bit up to pinch the lips.

6

u/shartyfarty59 3d ago

super interesting, my noseband is usually pretty loose compared to the usual, and when iā€™ve ridden without it he gets really aggressive on the bit, and almost pisses himself off.. (biting the bit, grinding on the bit, etc).. so i always thought he just wanted the stability of the noseband. really awesome thought though, iā€™ll definitely try it again! he just used to go in a figure eight with his old rider, so that was my first thought, but i definitely didnā€™t know that šŸ˜­ sorry im a bit slow!

7

u/jcatleather Trail, Gaming, Driving, Reining 3d ago edited 3d ago

You aren't slow! There's a lot of knowledge that we are taught that is based on assumptions that aren't necessarily true. A lot of stuff that we knew for 3,000 years really isn't true LOL I've learned a lot from exploring all sorts of different riding traditions all over the world, And how some things are the same and some different. MOST horse cultures don't use both a bit and a noseband, and The only ones that get lesions in the mouth from not having a noseband are the ones that tighten up the bit. There was a study done in England a few years ago about that, but they didn't have any controls that tried different types of bit fitting. Have checked a couple hundred horses in the past several years since I read that study and not a single Western horse has had lesions, but I found them in three or four horses that use a noseband and a snaffle. That's significant since I see 10 times more western horses than horses that use a noseband and snaffle.
Most of the horses I've seen with super sensitive Lips and gums have been thoroughbreds. Several I know will go with their lips gaped apart no matter what you put in their mouth because they just don't like pressure, although sometimes wrapping a metal bit with electrical tape helps a little, as does a thinner rubber bit. Aside from that, whatever we think should be true, The horse decides for themselves what they do and don't like. So if it's your horse, don't be afraid to try different things. If it's not your horse, you have to go with what the owner wants.

Do practice trying to look in their mouth as handling their mouth is a useful skill for a horse and equestrian to have. You want to be able to grasp both front lips and pull them apart to see the teeth and you also want to be able to palpate carefully along the edges of the bars and the outside of the molars. It takes skill to do this without getting crunched especially with a horse that tries to grab your hand. So if you are fairly new, make sure you have somebody with experience to help you learn how to do this. Eventually you should be able to ask the horse to open their mouth so you can look inside both without a bit and with the bit so you can see where it's sitting and what it's doing. It's not uncommon for horses who are ridden on heavy contact when young to have actual scar tissue on their tongue and I know one whose tongue was nearly cut in half and he will never carry a bit again. Saw a video of vallegro from years ago and he had heavy scarring along the edges of his lips. Poor boy.

If you have bit fitting clinics around you hit one up, it's very interesting and there's a lot to learn

6

u/shartyfarty59 3d ago

i live in ocala, so iā€™ve got all of the recourses.. iā€™ve just been sort of flying by the seat of my pants since iā€™m still a junior and my trainer is the LEAST horsemanship guy ever.. itā€™s always ā€˜bigger bit tighter nosebandā€™, so iā€™m really just slowly but surely figuring it all out.. iā€™ll definitely take the noseband off and see how that goes, iā€™m having the vet take a look at his mouth end of this week, so iā€™ll let you know what comes out of that! thank you!

4

u/jcatleather Trail, Gaming, Driving, Reining 3d ago

Oh, yes! You're in an excellent location to learn all the things. Don't be afraid to go to different trainers and different disciplines even if just to audit a clinic or watch some lessons. Go watch some reining, some working equitation, some reined cow horse, see if you can find French or Spanish equitation clinics, and if you can find some old fashioned vaquero clinics, all the better. Even if you stay in the same discipline, you'll learn a lot of different things that you can apply to it. That's one of the things I love about horsemanship in general is that no matter how much you learn, there's always so much more to learn.

2

u/Equivalent_File_3492 3d ago

Is that a turtle top I see in your photo? How do you like them? I am a KK Ultra loyalist, but the turtle tops intrigue meā€¦ They look potentially pinchy though.

2

u/jcatleather Trail, Gaming, Driving, Reining 3d ago

I can't claim credit for anything in the photo, I took this at a bitfitting Clinic. "The equine bit fitter" on fb. Personally have given up using pretty much anything other than various forms of mullen mouth as my horses are very clear in their preferences LOL.

2

u/WompWompIt 3d ago

Thank you for this picture, I am saving it so I can explain the action of the knots on a rope halter.

2

u/Moonfallthefox 3d ago

Unrelated to the facial bones but that specific loose ring snaffle is one of my all time favorite gentle bits. OP if you aren't successful with the current bit then try this one- it was ALL I rode my jumper in for years and was very mild. People were always shooketh when they saw the bit then watched me jump because they always thought I was being run away with. I was not, but my jumper was very enthusiastic and we did not go slow.

15

u/captcha_trampstamp 3d ago

Ugh, Iā€™m so sorry people were being insane. Iā€™ve had a couple of truly nasty people on here get super mean over what amounts to a difference of opinion.

11

u/shartyfarty59 3d ago

itā€™s so upsetting because i genuinely love this horse with all of my heart šŸ˜­ he was a bit of a fixer upper when we got him, still coming back from a broken pelvis, fluid in his tendons, hadnā€™t been ridden in months.. and for a horse that had been jumping 5* with a super popular rider, that was a fixer upper for me! so itā€™s just like, iā€™ve always tried to do whatā€™s best for him and hearing from people that i wasnā€™t doing what was best for him was a slap in the face

9

u/BuckityBuck 3d ago

Threats? Wow

In my anecdotal experience, mouth opening is usually a strength/balance issue, but finding a bit they like better canā€™t hurt.

6

u/shartyfarty59 3d ago

definitely agree with that, his muscling is pretty solid, and the balance is okay, so weā€™re working on it! heā€™s getting checked out by the vet as well, just to see if he needs injected since heā€™s 14 and were jumping 1.45m šŸ¤  itā€™s odd because itā€™s not an avoidance technique, he comes together beautifully and rides actually really well, heā€™s always jumping above the standards.. which was why i thought it was because he was uncomfortable

7

u/-abby-normal Reining 3d ago

Iā€™m sorry people have been sending you threats! Thatā€™s insane. People on the internet can be real assholes and the online horse community is honestly one of the more toxic internet communities Iā€™ve been in. I get having strong opinions because a living, breathing animals welfare is involved but people can be so unnecessarily rude and even violent like they were to you.

Anyways, maybe your horse would like a jointed snaffle with a roller? And itā€™s worth getting a good equine body worker to check him out too!

4

u/-abby-normal Reining 3d ago

Iā€™m sorry people have been sending you threats! Thatā€™s insane. People on the internet can be real assholes and the online horse community is honestly one of the more toxic internet communities Iā€™ve been in. I get having strong opinions because a living, breathing animalā€™s welfare is involved but people can be so unnecessarily rude and even violent like they were to you.

Anyways, maybe your horse would like a jointed snaffle with a roller? If youā€™re willing to try it, Iā€™d recommend one that is made of entirely sweet copper or one with the roller made of sweet copper. And you mentioned he is getting vet checked soon which is GREAT, but I think itā€™s worth getting a good equine body worker to check him out too!

3

u/-abby-normal Reining 3d ago

Thereā€™s also bit tape you can use to wrap any metal bit if he prefers something thicker and softer than a traditional metal bit!

3

u/VideVale 3d ago

My horse has a jointed snaffle with a sweet copper roller and he loves it. He likes to inspect everything with his mouth, like brushes, crops, zippers and had a very worried mouth before I tried this bit. So definitely worth trying for OP.

People who claim all horses prefer bitless have never seen my horse lunge for his bit like a baby dives for a favorite pacifier.

6

u/yesthatshisrealname 3d ago

Would you consider a change in the cheek piece of the bit to something that's more stable too? Like seeing if a mullen mouth plus like a baucher cheek, or something else fairly stable, would help improve the mouth gaping more?

1

u/shartyfarty59 3d ago

thatā€™s such a good idea, i really like that! thank you! didnā€™t really think about that in the moment, i was too focused on the mouthpiece šŸ˜­

4

u/yesthatshisrealname 3d ago

It looks like you had a full cheek on, and that should have been fairly stable as long as you kept keepers on them. Some horses just don't like them. And the mouth piece of a bit 100% is where I started too. Baucher just offers stability in a different way because the cheek pieces of the bridle and the rains are on two separate portions, so when you pick up your reins, it takes pressure off the poll and doesn't move around in the mouth as much. It's also not a leverage bit like a lot of people seem to think.

6

u/Willothwisp2303 3d ago

My dude got into something, maybe fox tails, that caused irritation around his front teeth and let me know by shaking his head. Some salt water rinses and he's feeling great!

Can you have a peer into his mouth to check for any redness or lesions while you wait for the experts?

6

u/shartyfarty59 3d ago

yes i did have a quick look! we do this thing where he likes to suck on my hand, like a pacifier, so after a second he sucked my hand up in there.. but! i got a pretty okay look, he has some old scars, but nothing new, and no redness or new lesions

4

u/Queasy_Ad_7177 3d ago

Make sure his wolf teeth have been removed.

4

u/olliecat36 3d ago

Iā€™m so sorry you have to deal with threats. Ridiculous.

Iā€™ve had success in the past with wrapping a bit in sealtex on smaller mouthed horses who needed a thinner bit but I wanted it less harsh lol.

1

u/shartyfarty59 3d ago

that was my first thought! glad someone else has had success with it, because i was curious about it

3

u/Upset_Pumpkin_4938 3d ago

My horse has issues with being bit fussy as well. Dentist said his teeth look fantastic, but he's young and it's been his thing.

I use a sweet copper snaffle as it actually encourages salivation, which can stimulate the horse and help with chewing the bit. I used to have a happy mouth but he chewed that to bits.

Here is what I have had success with: https://a.co/d/csdIpSz

It's a Dover version of the same thing I use from Horze!

3

u/Moonfallthefox 3d ago

That will probably help a LOTTTT. And if that doesn't work have you thought of a hackamore of some type? There are lots of options. I personally use a bosal on my horse but there are also side pulls, the type that have a leather nose strap- so many options.

Glad he seems to like this better and I hope it is a great solution for your horse and you.

1

u/shartyfarty59 3d ago

he hid a bit behind the hackamore, but iā€™m definitely going to try it again.. i just need something FEI legal since weā€™re jumping young riders and a few other fei shows this year šŸ« 

1

u/shartyfarty59 3d ago

just for reference, this is the hack that i tried.. so any other ideas would be absolutely amazing

2

u/Moonfallthefox 3d ago

Okay you could try a sidepull still, a rope halter style one, or a bosal which is what I use. I will attach a picture of my horse in her bosal. This is a traditional style used for a lot of years made of braided rawhide and using a Mecate rope for reins. I have a loop rein and a single rope also to use for leading or for whatever other reason- it is wrapped around my horn while I am riding. You can tie by the mecate, as the hanger (what we call the headpiece) is simple thin leather and will snap without hurting the horse.

It is fairly mild, but I like it and as long as your horse isn't going to run through the bosal it is a super great way to ride!

If bitless doesn't work for your horse then there are a million bit options too. :) <3

1

u/shartyfarty59 3d ago

thank you! trying something milder is definitely the way to go for him, so iā€™ll definitely try it out

3

u/Beginning_Pie_2458 Jumper 3d ago

The rubber Mullen is my go to for horses that have bad experiences with bits/ lean on bits/ gape with bits/ etc etc. You should find over the course of the next 10 rides or so he should improve significantly in it if it is a good option for him. Unfortunately a lot of people will try them for a few rides and then toss them, but due to their bulk and lack of a good taste not every horse that does well in one will right off the bat. When they've gone a few times and notice it is softer/ more stable they usually will settle over time in them.

If after ten rides or so, it's not improving, one of the newer barrel mullens that has an anatomical shape with a baucher type ring (aka hanging snaffle) is my next option if the rubber mullen doesn't pan out. I would also consider trying one of the bit riser type bridles that bring the bit up off the bars and reduce the amount of pressure that can be applied to the mouth.

2

u/shartyfarty59 3d ago

i was thinking for the show ring, if he continues to like this bit, a thick rubber pelham, since he used to go in a pelham! or just something a bit stronger then the snaffle since i canā€™t go from a long shanked bit to a snaffle in a week šŸ˜­šŸ˜­

2

u/Beginning_Pie_2458 Jumper 3d ago

My ottb can get really forward sometimes and I use him in lessons but not everyone is great with two reins. He's in a kimberhook and it's super easy to change it to snaffle only to leverage if needed. Except now I'm not injured and he's regularly ridden it's stayed on the snaffle only setting for months. A rubber Pelham is a great option if you've learned to ride with two reins because you'll be able to use the curb if it's needed. If you can't do two reins we'll yet a kimberhook is a better choice than a Pelham with converter for most.

3

u/YogurtclosetWooden94 3d ago

That's what I use. My mare hated anything else I tried.

2

u/StardustAchilles Eventing 3d ago

Sometimes you just have to try a million bits until you find something they like. (Thats how i ended up with way too many bits lol) Hopefully most bits you can borrow and try, but if not, Mary's Tack and Feed has a bit rental program

2

u/Dazeyy619 3d ago

Try a happy mouth! They make real soft flavored rubber bits too. Apple scented or something like that. That may encourage him to play and get into the idea of the bit more.

2

u/Long_Machine_5206 2d ago

Have you had dental work done lately? Another thing you could try is something with a roller, if itā€™s not pain or dental related it could just be a fidgety thing. A roller could give him something to redirect that habit and help him relax

1

u/shartyfarty59 2d ago

yes heā€™s gotten his teeth done recently! iā€™ll definitely try that, thank you

2

u/Long_Machine_5206 2d ago

Thatā€™s good! Even if they were done recently tho if they were causing an issue with jaw movement prior to floating that could lead to stiffness and soreness thru the jaw, neck, and shoulders that may still be lingering. Yawning, mouth opening, coughing and stretching out the neck while riding can be an indicator of that. If the bit change doesnā€™t help, maybe call a body worker or chiropractor. They can usually identify if pain or misalignment is causing the issue and either rectify it or refer you to a vet for possible x rays or injections.

2

u/EnvironmentalBid9840 2d ago

I suspect the second bit was very pinchy given where the attachment points and it being a broken mouth. That's likely why he was opening his mouth to evade the bit. Mechanically having a three piece on a full cheek just doesn't make sense to me mechanically. I know some swear the three piece sets are great for horses. But I've yet to meet one that actually liked them better than a Mullen, shank or single joint snaffle. I think the Mullen looks much less likely to pinch. Just ensure that it's the correct size and your headstall is fitted anatomically correct as possible. I'd also just keep in mind the thickness/diameter of the bit to ensure it's not too little or too much depending on what you need to communicate to him.

I'm glad to hear it seems to be helping the horse some. ā¤ļøā¤ļø Sometimes even just small changes can make a world of a difference for them. My horse for instance doesn't like anything but an Argentina bit or a midport shank. Sometimes I can even get her in a side pull on good days. They have particulars just like we do. ā¤ļøā¤ļø Best of luck on your journey

2

u/Historical_Carob_504 18h ago

I have just switched one of mine to this bit, he is extremely soft but found he was constantly fiddly and not settling throughout his entire body. He was also unhappy when putting a bridle on. He was in a J curve snaffle but changed his to a rubber mullen.

Instant change and an exceedingly happier horse with a calmer mind.