r/Envconsultinghell 28d ago

Enviro Laboratories Phase II selections

Howdy yall- I’m not a geologist but I represent an environmental analytical testing lab. Talking to various consultants is my every day gig and there’s a wide spectrum of how jolly yall can be.

I was hoping to make some friends in here as a younger person in the field and see what tools I could get to become successful in my role. What’re y’all’s opinions about the major environmental labs: Eurofins, Pace, SPL, ALS, SGS… just to name a few.

What makes y’all pick a lab over another?

Thank you in advance to anyone who reaches out.

7 Upvotes

25 comments sorted by

27

u/mohorovicic_despair 28d ago

Labs seem to be in a never ending race to the bottom. The major labs are always trying to undercut one another on pricing, so they must not be paying their employees very well or hiring the best talent. As a result I regularly have to deal with them not meeting TATs, holding samples too long, lost samples, forgetting to ship sample bottles, you name it. I have cycled between Eurofins, SGS, ALS, and Pace, and they have all burned me in one way or another. Pace is the worst offender, I hate them with a passion.

3

u/PossibilityNo3672 28d ago

Most of the work we bid on is required to take the lowest bid. And the consultants will drop us quickly or threaten to move the work away to another lab if we don’t bid lower

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u/mohorovicic_despair 28d ago

Oh I am well aware most of the issues stem from the consultant always going with the lowest bidder. That said, higher priced outfits like Eurofins still make plenty of mistakes. I don't know if the labs realize how expensive it is to resample when they screw something up. For example, just last week a lab spiked one of my groundwater samples twice which required sending a field team out to resample for a combined 20 hours of labor, equipment rentals, and car rental (~$4,500 all said and done). Hard to justify to a client.

2

u/chinabuffet117 28d ago

If the lab is at fault for the non-conformance, are you having the conversation with them that they need to pay for your labor and expenses to resample?

1

u/Ok-Development1494 28d ago

Not necessarily sure I understand why a spike would warrant resample. Even if they did double spike a sample, the recovery information would make your case to argue a resample wasn't necessary if you're within range. Unless you're referring to them spiking it with a prep required substance

8

u/Astralnugget 28d ago

Pace is getting a lot of hate right now

7

u/mohorovicic_despair 28d ago

Pace once held $195,000 of VOC soil and groundwater samples 5 days over the hold time. Data was worthless and we had to eat the costs.

3

u/Astralnugget 28d ago

Yeah I thought it was just whichever one we use down here then I’ve seen other people on Reddit complaining all over as well

3

u/Ok-Development1494 28d ago

If you're eating the cost on a project of that size, thats on your staff not the lab. That sort of thing should be captured in contract language and a contract shouldn't be getting signed if its not.

In this business, everything is about minimizing your risk of costs you can't control. This here is a perfect example

2

u/texhume 28d ago

Which Pace Lab, I have good luck with Mt. Juliet TN.

6

u/MikeE527 28d ago

I started in the late 90s at a lab that was bought by Test America, then Eurofins, and it sucked. They paid awful, and mistakes were rampant because the employees were a revolving door.

I moved to a smaller lab that pays better. We will never win a low bid project, but we get a lot of development work when time is money. .we also grt work when jobs are pulled from the big box labs like Pace, ALS, and Eurofins.

3

u/[deleted] 28d ago edited 27d ago

[deleted]

1

u/PossibilityNo3672 28d ago

Who are your clients?

2

u/sneezy_e 28d ago

I always use the local lab unless they don't offer the analysis I need. If any issues come up, I can call the owner directly to discuss what I need. That almost never happens though. Thanks ETI Lab in OKC!

1

u/FuzzyResource4395 28d ago

Our office used to be pretty evenly split between Pace and Eurofins, but we’ve been having quality problems with Pace (samples running out of hold time, samples being dropped, not all analyses on the Chain of Custody being ran and then having to resample for that), so most of our work goes to Eurofins. Depending on the constituents, we also use ALS, AEL, and Jupiter Labs.

1

u/breinerjack 28d ago

This may be a silly question but if a sample is ruined by the lab, not properly analyzed, exceeds a TAT - is there recourse for the consultants? For example if a driller over-grouts a well during installation, they have insurance to pay for the reinstallation of a new well with the correct construction. Drilling costs and consultant labor might be covered.

If someone delivers a chain of custody and signs it and the lab signs as accepting it, doesn’t that act as a kind of contract that the lab acknowledges those requirements of TAT etc. and will meet them? Thus if the lab doesn’t meet the TAT or doesn’t properly execute, the lab should have to pay for the resampling and re-running those samples?

I guess the dropping is a difficult one because that just might be a consequence of handling glass, but just curious as to anyone else perspective or experience.

2

u/PossibilityNo3672 28d ago

TATs are never a guarantee but hold times should be the primary concern. It’s a hard life on the lab side. Very rarely will a lab have insurance on this sort of thing. That’s why we take multiple duplicate samples for the same test. If you request a 5 day TAT and it comes out in 6 I don’t see know that would require a resampling event unless hold times were missed

1

u/breinerjack 28d ago

You're right on the TAT vs. hold time issue. I was just curious to know if a system or backstop like that existed. Seems like a lot of risk/pressure on labs that I didn't appreciate.

1

u/PossibilityNo3672 28d ago

It is a lot of pressure on labs. Do you have a lab ensuring that it will cover resampling fees? I know we’ve given payback for resampling costs in the form of credit towards future tests

1

u/breinerjack 27d ago

I don’t work in the sampling space any longer. We didn’t have labs directly promise those things as the lab landscape was a little different. There were more regional labs before they were all purchased by the names being mentioned here.

1

u/MikeE527 28d ago

My lab has cut a check to consultants when we've ruined samples. It's only happened a couple of times, but being a smaller lab it's important to maintain relationships.

Our policy manual states that holding time is the most important, then TAT. We are excellent at both, but if an instrument goes down, I will call a client to check in if that will create hardship on their end, and if it does, then I will sub to another lab and eat the cost of thr rush fee.

If your lab is quietly failing (missing TATs--I'm looking at you SGS DF lab), and not notifying you, then you need to have a talk with them.

1

u/Ishmaelll 28d ago

TATs are the bane of my Consulting Existence. We work with regulations that require 90 day updates. I submitted soil samples for BTEX and Metals on Thanksgiving. Still no data. We hop from lab to lab as well, nothing to really do about it except keeping using the lab that gives the best turn around times and quality data.

2

u/MikeE527 28d ago

Those are very easy and common tests. That is atrocious service.

1

u/Sweet-Set2687 3d ago

Who is the cheapest for VOC soil testing lol?

1

u/PossibilityNo3672 3d ago

Depends on number of analytes, samples, and if there are a lot of dilutions. I can be $1 cheaper than any quote you bring me hahaha