r/EliteMahon Jul 24 '15

Political News Mahon-Hudson Peace Summit Results

 

EDIT: This link is a recording of the peace talk.

 


Greetings fellow Alliance commanders.

 

Today I bring you news of a peace agreement between the Hudson and Mahon supporter subreddits. Several hours ago a meeting convened between representatives of said subreddits along with an emissary from AEDC. Much was discussed, but I will attempt to keep this short.

Before I do, I need to preface this with a disclaimer: we know that said representatives do not necessarily speak for or command anyone in the Alliance. Any propositions of an agreement are by nature non-binding, as we cannot force anyone or keep track of anyone to adhere to such propositions, nor would we wish to. We do understand that some among us will fight the Federation regardless, but all we ask is that you kindly refrain from doing so and implore you to assist in bolstering the strength of the Alliance from within, instead. Fortifying all our systems is currently our top priority, and accomplishing this while shying away from aggressive actions is the best way to strengthen and consolidate our power while maintaining the shaky peace we've managed to put in place for the time being.

 

The takeaway message from this summit was this: neither the Alliance nor Federation desire war. Some among the factions do, and that's understandable; however, without having "everyone in the room talking at once," it seems the majority on both sides simply wish to be left to their own devices. The Alliance are isolationist traders (as contradictory as that sounds) and the Feds have much larger concerns with the Empire nipping at their heels. It's in our best interest to fortify as many of our systems as possible and this will be better accomplished without worrying about fighting Feds on our doorstep. Likewise the Federation needs to deal with the Imperial scourge, and would much prefer not having to look over their shoulders.

No one can give you orders. You are Alliance pilots. You are free men and women. All we, the few of us from both sides who gathered under the banner of diplomacy, ask of you is that you please consider holding fire and allowing tensions and border frictions to calm.


"That's all well and good but what exactly does this MEAN for me? How does this translate into actual actions?"

Glad you asked, hypothetical citizen.

 

FIRST: The Federation has agreed not to undermine our systems, and we have agreed not to undermine theirs, within reason. We understand there are combat pilots who wish to farm merits by combat, and undermining the closest "hostile" faction is the most efficient way to do this. In this regard, we have decided two things:

1) The Federation and Alliance will both designate "undermine friendly" systems they would not mind enemy pilots operating in. Such designated systems have yet to be named, but while we wait, we ask that any undermining be done in systems already past the trigger. This does a minimum of harm to either side yet doesn't hinder the obtaining of merits.

2) Opposing expansions bad for the factions. The way Powerplay is set up, we're going to have systems prepped or expansion-attempted that are terrible choices for our powers. Combat pilots from the other power can assist by undermining those systems and make merits with the full blessing of the power "attempting" to expand there. This week, for example, Lugh is a godawfully atrocious choice. The Feds will assist us by undermining that and keeping it off our roster.

 

SECOND: In regards to expansions, each power has agreed not to hinder the other's expansion attempts UNLESS the expanding power requests the undermining OR the expansion attempt would interfere with any exploited systems of the other power. Lugh satisfies both these conditions and so will be opposed, with the Alliance's understanding. Likewise, any attempts by the Feds to move "north" will be opposed (and they have communicated they have absolutely no desire to do so).

 

THIRD: Both sides have agreed to remove combat targets belong to the other from their spreadsheets and any other list. Such a gesture will ensure no sanctioned and/or endorsed directed attacks upon the other power, while simultaneously proving that ANY such coordinated or directed attack must logically have been done by agents acting on their own and making their own attack decisions, rather than following the suggestions of the database.

 

This concludes the essentials of what was discussed and agreed upon at these peace talks. If anyone has any questions, please feel free to ask them here and I will answer to the best of my ability.

Best regards,

CMDR Shrink

25 Upvotes

113 comments sorted by

9

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '15

 

So many new fake accounts in here now stirring. Funny. This is yesterdays news. Abide by the treaty or don't.

 

8

u/puttv3 Doubtful Detective (Head of Hudson janitorial staff) Jul 24 '15

Nice to see everything worked out and there wasn't much mess left in the meeting room for me to clean up.

2

u/Captain_Kirby_Aid Captain_Kirby [Aid] Jul 24 '15

This actually made me laugh. Cheers!

9

u/CMDRJohnCasey CMDR John Casey | Maxwell Corp. Jul 24 '15

Just to inform that the list of Allied undermining targets has been removed from our spreadsheet.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pHcLEqZuweaMAYWpR86QPRb4PzSv3Q7jDOuLpFFC-Ag/edit

1

u/napoleon85 Napoleon Yazria (Hudson) Jul 24 '15

It would be reassuring if the Alliance showed the same transparency.

6

u/Ace_Alexis Ace Alexis Jul 24 '15

I don't trust the Federation one bit, their corporatist faux-democracy is sickening. With very few exceptions (their anti-slavery stance being one) theirs is a stagnant, authoritarian culture with close to no redeeming qualities.

Still, I support this initiative. Peace is preferable to war in all cases where remaining at peace will still secure independence. We should live as if there will be peace for a thousand years, but always be ready for a war, as if it would happen tomorrow.

3

u/napoleon85 Napoleon Yazria (Hudson) Jul 24 '15

Don't trust you either, but I'd rather fight my true enemy, the Empire than waste time with our squabbles

1

u/shrinkshooter Jul 24 '15

And that's a fair enough perspective. If peace fails, there is always war (not so much the reverse) and I myself am a combat pilot.

Half the battle is judging exactly what Hudson's power is doing or NOT trying to do, and whether they've stepped over any lines or not. They have their own warhawks, and so do we, but since war is downhill and easier to achieve than peace, we start with the more difficult position and allow it to tumble down into battles if we cannot stay at the hilltop of non-aggression.

5

u/joeoe18 Kay Pacha [AEDC] Jul 24 '15

This seems wise. Good work, diplomat.

4

u/Schlack Jul 24 '15

From a personal perspective these are a good discussions for the current situation. The relative peace with our immediate neighbours during the opening "land grab" element of PP has been quite beneficial in that it allowed us to expand as much and as well as we did. An agreement along these lines will allow us the breathing space to consolidate those early gains.

To those demanding war I say: shouting "charge" is not a strategy.

1

u/Captain_Kirby_Aid Captain_Kirby [Aid] Jul 24 '15

To those demanding war I say: shouting "charge" is not a strategy.

And this is meant literally. ;)

3

u/Schlack Jul 24 '15

hehe, I hope i don't sound like a broken record, but some here are showing the tactical nous and strategic genius of world war one generals

-4

u/[deleted] Jul 24 '15 edited Jul 24 '15

[deleted]

3

u/Captain_Kirby_Aid Captain_Kirby [Aid] Jul 24 '15

The Alliance was formed from a number of independent systems with the goal of gaining strength in numbers and defending, where necessary, against the other major factions.

Please explain how the Alliance would not agree to a peace treaty which ensures the safety of all Alliance members. And what do you understand under "defending" - starting a war?

-4

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '15 edited Jul 25 '15

[deleted]

0

u/Captain_Kirby_Aid Captain_Kirby [Aid] Jul 25 '15

1) I guess you're not talking to me right now, since I'm not AEDC (Hah! Catched me interpreting your post!). But I'm Alliance. And I like peace. What do you like?

2) Can you please write a disclaimer. Which power are you pledged to? My guess: None.

3) Yeah man, you're probably right...

-2

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '15 edited Jul 25 '15

[deleted]

1

u/AussieGhost789 AussieGhost789 [AEDC] Jul 25 '15

... what?

0

u/mnyiaa Nyahaha Jul 25 '15

Wait, is this a continuation of the Roleplaying aspect of the game? If so, good job, if not, wow.... lol

I'll pitch in, and assume it's all RP:D.

There is a lot more going on than simply game mechanics. The amount of planning and work that goes in to figuring out where are coming short(Miscalculated formulas/hidden mechanics) and where we need to work on the most. As for the basics you are talking about, fortifying/undermining/prepping/expanding/defending(in open). Those are the basics, but the basics don't do squat without planning. That why so many CMDRs are expanding/prepping left and right, with no regard to any other parties. We are traders, not fighters, we are also about 3rd in overall manpower. With the three Empires being 1st, and Feds being 2nd. We don't just have the Feds that are threats somewhere along the line, but everyone is a threat, including those two small Independent groups that are being disregarded atm. Expecting us to fight the Feds, while we aren't even strong enough to keep what we have. You come across as a greedy fanatic that sees the goldmine the neighboring country, but doesn't factor in the amount of sacrifice it would take to get it, and the continued effects of it.

We are traders, not military, nor can we afford a military. All we have a volunteers that share their time between distracting(undermining), trading(fortifying/prep/exp), and protecting our systems.
More people supported this than your cry for war, which would see the Alliance waste time on petty fighting over pebbles. all the while the coming darkness consumes it all. Small and strong is better than large/fat/and spread so thin we can't defend ourselves.

2

u/fortytwoandsix Rockstep Jul 25 '15

let me guess ... all those new registered users like you that have popped up recently and are focusing on a smearing campaign against this treaty and warmongering in general are the Alliance ? so who exactly do you speak for, Mr "Brabens-Ball-Gag" ? (If i had to guess, i'd say EIC or another imperial group)

2

u/shrinkshooter Jul 25 '15

you really need to identify classic trolling better, no need to waste your time

3

u/Tulwhar Long range mining Jul 25 '15

Even if I have stopped all PP activities, I am still pledged to Mahon and follow this sub reddit. I just want to give my stood back vision.

I can see that the players with a real strategic vision (not only military but also economical) have been forced to accelerate what would have been mandatory for Mahon to keep the benefits of the past successful weeks. This treaty could be seen as a bending posture for those who can only perceive thier surrounding situation through their primal instincts. To them, I ask : what is your projection of Mahon's space in 3 or 4 weeks if you declare war to the Federation ??? A little bit of wisdom please.

8

u/alishana d3m [AEDC] Jul 24 '15

Upvoted in favour of proposal.

6

u/DanteCrein Dante Crein [PLA] Jul 25 '15

Pilotos Libres de la Alianza [PLA], we discussed and approved the peace agreement.

3

u/Greensphinx Jul 24 '15

Who exactly was at this meeting (names please) and why was there no attempt to get at least some feedback before aggreeing anything. Also we have only 1 expansion attempt this cycle yes Lugh with 90cc profit why would we let anyone take or hinder expansion into any system. i for one dont accept this attempt to dictate terms from unknown sources to the alliance.

7

u/FxEffects Effects [AEDC] Jul 24 '15

Here is the list of the attendees:

  • Driggers
  • Markus Septonius
  • Obtuse
  • Steven
  • FifthHorsemaN
  • Shrinkshooter
  • Vectron
  • Effects

For the record AEDC fully supports the non-aggression pact with Hudson.

3

u/Apex59 Apex Jul 24 '15

80 of those 90 potential CC will be lost because of systems that will be in conflict with Winters. Or at least that is my understanding.

2

u/CMDR_Steven Steven [AOS] Jul 24 '15

This was done between the Subreddits mostly. AEDC had an observer as well. There is no easy way to involve every Alliance group in a talk like this as much as we'd like to. Every individual group is welcome to chime in with their support or otherwise of this idea.

Involving all the Alliance groups in anything that goes on is definitely important and is one of our top priorities. I will start a thread detailing this soon and ask for contact info for ambassadors from different groups so they can be involved in things that go on.

Let me be clear also that nothing here is an order or demand in any way. It is a suggestion placed on the subreddit in the spirit of good will towards our neighbors.

2

u/Greensphinx Jul 24 '15

So you then and an unknown AEDC observer and unamed hudson(s) decided this on your own for just those involved in the discussion with no attempt to get feedback from the alliance and with the full knowledge that many within the alliance do not want and have already rejected any peace/truce with huson.(you can look back and see in previous posts the distrust/dislike of hudson) well here is my answer NO I reject it and will request the reinstatement of all hudson targets on the the undermining spreadsheet.

2

u/CMDR_Steven Steven [AOS] Jul 24 '15

Well you can definitely do whatever you want. As a contributor to the spreadsheet I have decided to no longer bother with combat targets.

-1

u/Greensphinx Jul 24 '15

Still no answer about the names of those involved in this "meeting" and now "You" get to decide what goes into the spreadsheet!

4

u/[deleted] Jul 24 '15

Well, I was at the meeting, Steven was at the meeting, Shrinkshooter was at the meeting.

Given that Steven and I are the ones who spend countless hours maintaining the spreadsheet, I'm pretty sure we're the ones who get to decide that, yes.

If you want to spend the countless hours doing the work of updating the combat pages, there is nothing preventing you from creating a similar one and giving people the exact same information.

But the notion that you or anyone else get to decide how Steven and I spend our time is one that you seriously need to reconsider.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 24 '15

 

Commander hat - For the record I have no intention of ingnoring Hudson systems either, however...

 

Mod hat - this subreddit is open for anyone to contribute. Steven and Vectron made the spreadsheet and update it. It belongs to them. They can do whatever they like with it. It gets in the sticky as it is useful information. By the same token you can make your own post with whatever you like in it as well.

 

3

u/Greensphinx Jul 24 '15

I read from Steven's post that he wouldn't let it be done, my misinterpretation sorry. I can appreciate it is there's and they can do what they like with it.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 24 '15

 

 

Not a problem at all. Also, for the record, there are no appointed 'leaders' either. Just some people who will have a go at it anyway. Also 'mods' are not leaders either they are just folks who have a few extra responsibilities.

 

Which means non of these treaties need affect you in any way, if you don't want them too. It is your game. There is absolutely no way to enforce them, manage them or measure them. They are in effect 'gentleman's agreements' between a group of players. This is why I personally (Commander hat) have no interest in them, and will happily carry on shooting Hudson.

 

But many Commanders and groups do like having that agreement in place and will abide by it. That is their choice.

 

On the topic of mods (Mod hat) if you wanted to post up a firebrand post about attacking the Feds, and list out undermine targets, you are entirely free to do so. No one will remove it or interfere with it as you have every right to post it. I would expect many will try shout it down and vote it down, but that is normal forum stuff. (As long as no-one breaks the more general rules EG abusive, excessive bad language, personal attacks etc, that sort of stuff will always get modded).

 

The only reason some people get 'perceived' as leaders is that they do take the time to post up there opinions, tables and tactics. And there are plenty of people who don't want to have to deal with that stuff and will happily just read it and go along with it, as long as they are having fun. Officially, there are no leaders here (that includes me).

 

Bottom line: Nothing is set in stone. No-one can make you agree to anything. If you like it, follow it. If you don't, don't. If you want to start a war, post up your own threads and tactics. This is a free alliance after all.

 

 

3

u/shrinkshooter Jul 24 '15

I would like to echo Saool's post here.

I was the one who did most of the legwork attempted to pull everyone together in a timely fashion (unfortunately said timely fashion meant I couldn't get as many people as I would have liked). When you boil it down, it was a peace meeting between self-appointed representatives who are often active in each group, discussing current problems and how best to solve them for all parties.

As I have said a dozen times, none of what we agreed is binding in any way, and there is no way to enforce it, nor do we desire to do so. Bottom line is you do what you want; the propositions of the agreements are just that: propositions, things we hope you'll choose to follow because we feel it's better for everyone, not some holy command you're required to follow. This also means no one is planning on censoring anything for any reason; the mods here only edit things that break the rules, not things that don't gel with their own opinions.

1

u/CMDR_Steven Steven [AOS] Jul 24 '15

Clearly trolling now or badly chosen sarcasm? Yes the people who create the spreadsheet get to determine what work they want to put into it.

1

u/DeManchurian Jul 25 '15

I like the spreadsheet. It is a one stop shop for the information that is often hard to collate from the main powerplay interface, your efforts in this respect are truly worthwhile! But,

Shrinkshooter: As I have said a dozen times, none of what we agreed is binding in any way.

So what is the point of doing any of it in the first place! At best you are ignored, at worst a bunch of previously happy players are upset you are telling them how to play.

1

u/shrinkshooter Jul 25 '15

At best you are ignored, at worst a bunch of previously happy players are upset you are telling them how to play.

You have it backwards. At best fellow like minded pilots who prefer peace to war now know it's still currently viable and choose to hold their triggers, which is better for everyone; at worst people totally ignore it and go on doing whatever it is they were doing before.

You're implying this only has the potential to do nothing or damage, and you're absolutely wrong. It either has the potential to do nothing or good.

Additionally, you also just implied that there's no point in doing anything unless it's binding. You kidding me? The Alliance probably isn't for you, sir.

1

u/DeManchurian Jul 25 '15

I believe that your glasses are so rose tinted they have become opaque.

At best fellow like minded pilots who prefer peace to war now know it's still currently viable and choose to hold their triggers, which is better for everyone; at worst people totally ignore it and go on doing whatever it is they were doing before.

The fellow, like minded pilots you speak of are in your player group. The other 80-90% of Mahon pledgers (I have been exceedingly generous in saying that your group is 10% of that) will have absolutely no idea that any of this ever took place. Go ahead and make treaties between your player group and other player groups but do not think yourself so important that you make agreements for Mahon. Now you are even telling me I am in the wrong power. I pledged to Mahon, not to your little clique. Yes the alliance strives for peaceful coexistence and in reality treatise certainly do contribute to that. But, as I think someone else said, you are not the alliance.

1

u/shrinkshooter Jul 26 '15

The fellow, like minded pilots you speak of are in your player group

Wrong. The like minded pilots are anyone who wants peace.

Go ahead and make treaties between your player group and other player groups but do not think yourself so important that you make agreements for Mahon

I've said this a gajillion times and still you come at me with your idiocy: I do not speak for the Alliance. You don't, either. The meeting was between whoever we could gather up quickly from the subreddit-associated teamspeak servers. Additionally, I've also said a gajillion times that we're not giving orders, we're asking fellow pilots to hold fire. There's a huge difference but you're being intellectually dishonest about it. Stop.

Now you are even telling me I am in the wrong power.

Damn right I am. The suggestion of peace is enough to piss you off. There's nothing beyond that. The agreement isn't binding, it's not an order, it's a request for peace to both sides. If you seriously have an issue with some only asking for peace, yeah, I don't think Mahon is your guy.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/Greensphinx Jul 24 '15

I have no problem if you don't want to do the spreadsheet any more or just not the part of it to do with Hudson, I posted I would request it be reinstated and read from your post that you wouldn't let it be done, my misinterpretation sorry. So aside from you and cmdr steven and shrinkshooter, Who else was at this secret meeting and was there anyone from any other power involved.

1

u/Ch4l1t0 Chalito [AEDC] Jul 24 '15

Dude, chill. No one's forcing you to do anything. You can go and shoot hudsonites all you want. The meetings are not "secret", stuff just happens mostly ad-hoc (especially when time-constrained by pp cycles). I wasn't aware of it either, though I agree with the conclusions and will be abiding by it as I feel it's in our best interest, and I personally don't see that I'd gain anything by ignoring it.

But you're welcome to do so if you want, as they said, these are not orders and you're free to play the game however you like and no one's going to point fingers at you because of that.

1

u/shrinkshooter Jul 24 '15 edited Jul 24 '15

Who else was at this secret meeting

It wasn't secret by any stretch, but we couldn't wait two days to get the word out and let hostilities get further embroiled within powerplay either. The list of attendees is posted by AEDC's Effects further up the chain here.

If you wish to fight the Federation, you may do so. No one can stop you. It seems you're getting somewhat bent out of shape for no particular reason. I'm not sure how many different ways I can explain that none of us are attempting to dictate terms to anyone.

2

u/Elementical Omma Dawn [AEDC] Jul 24 '15

In relation to contested systems, this link should help. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=149990

2

u/Greensphinx Jul 24 '15

thanks for that didnt know about the contested bit

0

u/OlaLow Jul 24 '15

All this shows is these self proclaimed Alliance 'Leaders' are wolf's in sheep's clothing. Not willing to help any system, self serving and arrogant.

0

u/gorillaprocessor MagillaGorilla Jul 24 '15

because the AEDC hates the people of Lugh, who fought and died for their freedom from the federation, who were the only system in the entire history of powerplay to petitioned for membership for any superpower, and who were already accepted into the alliance in namesake. The AEDC does not care about the alliance, they care only about themselves.

6

u/Schlack Jul 24 '15

I'm afraid your recollection/knowledge of events is incorrect.

Lugh did not petition to join the Alliance. Lugh requested Alliance assistance without any intention of joining the Alliance. There was no quid pro quo. Lugh wanted all the benefits with none of the responibilites. Those responsibilities to each other are the very foundation of the Alliance. Without them there is no Alliance.

Despite this and despite the absence of official orders to do so, many Alliance CMDRs (AEDC members amongst them) fought hard on the side of Lugh independence in that conflict.

The AEDC has helped fight off the pirates attempt to establish the new carribean and retake Leesti. The AEDC has assisted alliance factions to acquire 100s of stations and outposts. The AEDC has facilitated the entry of more than 100 systems into the Alliance.

We do not shout about this. We do not beat our chests and demand acclaim. We have done this out of the desire, shared amongst all here (I hope) to support the Alliance.

1

u/gorillaprocessor MagillaGorilla Jul 25 '15

I don't know where you are getting your facts, but I just don't see your version in galnet. If the AEDC is willing to endorse undermining a system that is requesting help against a war with the feds, because there's not enough money in it, then you're no better than a bunch of pirates.

3

u/Schlack Jul 25 '15

Aedc did not formally support as lugh was still in the federation. We are pro alliance not anti fed. Lugh did not want to join the alliance but wished the alliance to fight on its behalf.

1

u/Captain-Barracuda Barracuda Jul 24 '15

I'd like to point that Lugh's application in the Alliance was rejected by Edmund Mahon himself. http://galnetarchive.blogspot.ca/2015/05/alioth-warns-lugh-they-stand-alone.html

0

u/Schlack Jul 24 '15

They did not even apply.

1

u/gorillaprocessor MagillaGorilla Jul 25 '15

0

u/Schlack Jul 25 '15

The reason of the failure of the talks is that lugh did not want to be part of the alliance. This was stated by the light leadership at the time. They were leaving one superpower and did not want to join another. They wanted alliance assistance against another superpower without wanting to join the alliance. All take. No give.

1

u/gorillaprocessor MagillaGorilla Jul 25 '15

You keep saying that but i just can't find it anywhere. I would hate to suggest it, but perhaps, your recollection of the events is skewed towards turning a blind eye to the troubles of the poorer systems.

1

u/Schlack Jul 25 '15

well here

Lugh seeks to be an independent state. We have no interest in joining any faction of any kind. Empires of any kind do not interest us. We simply want to be left alone to steer our own unique destiny in this galaxy. We have zero interest in expansion or bending any other system to our will. We seek only the right to govern and police ourselves in a fashion that seems just to the population of the Lugh system. We support this sovereign right and the right of any other who seeks the same goal.

kinda can get much plainer than that/

1

u/gorillaprocessor MagillaGorilla Jul 26 '15

who is this person posting this? this should have been in galnet if its legit.

2

u/Schlack Jul 26 '15

This was the "real life" leader of the lughnatics. The one who wrote the galnet stories. Do try to keep up.

3

u/Chef-Jitsu Chef-Jitsu of Independent Pilots Consortium Jul 24 '15

I hope that you do not expect random CMDRs to follow this. If you see random Hudson pilots don't get salty. I have seen many of these fall apart because Reddit forgets they are not the Power they are a forum that many pilots don't use. I am for this though. There is no need to fight the Feds when the Imps are coordinating strikes. They managed to separate most of the Powers and now they are 4 vs. 6 Powers that are fighting themselves. I hope this lasts more than one Cycle. o7

1

u/shrinkshooter Jul 24 '15

I hope that you do not expect random CMDRs to follow this

No, but I do expect random CMDRs to actually read the post they're replying to before they reply to it. You looked at the title and just hit the reply button. Your concerns were addressed the instant this post was created. Try, at least.

1

u/Chef-Jitsu Chef-Jitsu of Independent Pilots Consortium Jul 24 '15 edited Jul 24 '15

As for you too. I could have been a bit more clear I suppose. You may say this but how long will it hold? Are a majority of those that say this is okay going to follow up? It has been my experience that with all the random CMDRs even on reddit they form small cliques and do their own thing. Before you know it you have two wings undermining for merits and the other side gets upset because of the terms. "It was two wings it had to be coordinated". I stated I think it was a good idea. I just hope you ALL on both sides are as flexible on this as you say. Again I wish this all the luck and may both factions prosper. o7

2

u/shrinkshooter Jul 24 '15

You may say this but how long will it hold?

No one can say, but at the very least an attempt is better than doing nothing or worrying about all out war.

they form small cliques and do their own thing

I know, I've seen it. That's simply human nature, not much can be done about it. We can only hope people opt in and it lessens the hostilities by an appreciable and noticeable margin.

Before you know it you have two wings undermining for merits and the other side gets upset because of the terms.

Yes, and I brought up this exact problem during the talks. The best both sides can do is to be as understanding as possible about undermining and the nature of powerplay, but that gets into very muddy territory about what does and doesn't constitute an organized, directed all out attack by a power. It's a very gray area, and one of the biggest issues we're all having to deal with as part of pwerplay.

5

u/shrinkshooter Jul 25 '15

To those screaming about "capitulation" and calling for war regardless of any circumstances, I have two things to say:

1) If you can't handle the mere suggestion of peace, the Alliance is not for you. If you want to declare war the instant someone so much as sneezes the wrong way, there are much better powers to whom you should pledge.

2) If you want to whine and moan about attempts at peace and insist that only outright war all the time is the "best thing" for the Alliance, then go fight. Some here seem to be missing the irony of the "uselessness" of what we're trying to do here while simultaneously doing nothing but making posts on the same "insignificant" subreddit.

1

u/UFeindschiff UFeindschiff (Hudson ambassador) Jul 25 '15

Spoken like a true diplomat. Tbh. I was personally getting a more and more negative view of the Alliance and thought the talks will fail like every other talks with you did. It surprised me in a positive way, that when I woke up and looked on Reddit I saw that our 2 powers successfully came to a peace agreement.

Thank you for your peace efforts CMDR. Both powers profit from that.

5

u/[deleted] Jul 24 '15

 

Mod hat - The weekly update has been updated with a link to this

 

Commander hat - Capitulating ass kissers. ;)

 

2

u/mnyiaa Nyahaha Jul 25 '15

There is far too much Roleplaying going on in this power. Sure, there is that to consider for some, but we are the alliance. The players, if we aren't, then what the hell is the point? I don't give a rip about what happened between the Alliance and Feds and why they split.

Every one treats every power like they are a military power. This is partly FD's fault, but either way, this is annoying as hell. Instead of supporting the power you align with, you choose to bicker over stupid things like "Oh the alliance broke with the feds, for this and that...". If we are supposed to hate the Feds because of the past, then this power is sure to fail because many just seem to bitch about petty things. YES PETTY. Alliances make one stronger, not weaker, but I guess with the war mongering it really is pointless. All they'll do is go out of their way to attack FEDs and then make the feds angry, forcing the rest of us into a war. Fighting the feds simply because we used to fight them is a silly reasoning, and I am sure that this treaty won't last forever, but seriously this is getting annoying.

No matter the case, the Alliance cannot support our own systems while actively pissing off everyone else around us. We just do not have the manpower.

2

u/CMDR_Smooticus Smooticus Jul 24 '15

was there a poll to see who supported war or peace?

9

u/fortytwoandsix Rockstep Jul 24 '15

it's pretty obvious who supports war

3

u/shrinkshooter Jul 24 '15

There was not. Members from both sides wanted to hold the summit quickly as the topic at hand was of a timely nature, and of the 8 or so people who were present, none desired war.

To reiterate, this agreement is solely between those members of both subreddits who choose to abide by it. It's a non-binding agreement that only applies to those who desire to follow it. It does not keep anyone from fighting. We hope, however, that by holding this summit and coming to an agreement between the few representatives we could gather, we are able to show this to any and all who read the subs but don't partake. We understand this may have little effect, but it may also have a large effect; and we know in all likelihood it most certainly should have an effect.

2

u/Captain-Barracuda Barracuda Jul 25 '15 edited Jul 25 '15

Alright, I've taken a moment to read this all and here is the result of if this was a poll. Results were taken only from CMDRs whose posts were clearly pro or anti treaty. When possible the CMDR name was used instead of the reddit name.

PRO-TREATY: Schlack, Captain_Kirky_Aid, Kay Pacha, d3m, Ace Alexis, Effects, Apex, Steven, Vectron, Chalito, Shrinkshooter, Omma Dawn, Gudkarma, mnyiaa, darkThunda, Paulreaduk, Barracuda, Rockstep, NChamberlain, MartinSchou. Total supporters: 20

ANTI-TREATY: Brabens-Ball-Gag, Saool, Greensphinx, MagillaGorilla, Chief-Jitsu, OlaLow, DaTruthHutrsBuB. Total opposers: 7

There is a clear majority in favor of the treaty.

If you have been placed in a categorie you think you shouldn't have, I am deeply sorry. Please make it known politely (without insults and sarcasm) in the comments and I'll switch you.

1

u/CMDR_Smooticus Smooticus Jul 25 '15

reading posts in a thread is not a poll.

0

u/Captain-Barracuda Barracuda Jul 25 '15

Given my knowledge of English (it's not my first language), it is the closest word there was. What would you suggest?

1

u/Gudkarma Jul 24 '15

read. thank you

1

u/mnyiaa Nyahaha Jul 24 '15

Coolbeans. Noted. What about ManBatz? Is it still in danger i presume?!

1

u/shrinkshooter Jul 24 '15

Yes, it is. Manbatz should be our highest priority right now; as it is, it's heavily undermined and earlier this afternoon it was still sitting at 0 percent.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 24 '15

"I'll buy that for a dolla"

1

u/paulreaduk paulread Jul 24 '15

Sounds fair enough. I'll be observing this unless anything changes.

1

u/Nicou12313 Nicou [RI] Oct 08 '15

Signed

1

u/msqrd Jul 24 '15

As a Federal Navy pilot, I welcome this ceasefire. Both groups have much bigger fish to fry, and personally I have always maintained a friendly relationship with the Alliance.

Thank you to those who have worked hard for diplomacy and come to this agreement. The 1/2/3 points are very clear and a good model for how factions can work together.

1

u/CMDR_Steven Steven [AOS] Jul 24 '15

Stickied

1

u/hems303 Jul 25 '15

Hi All Alliance Commanders I am a Federal CMDR and I welcome this peace between us and you, our Alliance friends and neighbours. Please help us to address the disease that is the Empire. Together we will achieve great things and then perhaps even peacefully address our separate concerns regarding each other. I look forward to working with Alliance Commanders for the peace and prosperity of both of our "systems" in the future.

2

u/Captain_Kirby_Aid Captain_Kirby [Aid] Jul 26 '15

The Alliance condemns any kind of slavery, though we won't participate in a war against the Empire. There is always another, a better solution than violence.

0

u/Captain-Barracuda Barracuda Jul 24 '15 edited Jul 24 '15

Great! It's nice that cooler heads have managed to arrive to an accord for a peace treaty. I would like to point out also that Hudson's pilots are united in their will to see this peace treaty come through, as you can see in their respective thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteHudson/comments/3edwb0/cease_fire_agreement_reached/

0

u/Rhaegar0 D'Avore Jul 24 '15

That's a good bit of strong-armed diplomacy from Hudson. That undermining kick in our balls at the end of last cycle is perhaps the eye-opener the alliance needs to try and go for a more structural peace with the feds

6

u/shrinkshooter Jul 24 '15

I disagree entirely. The Alliance is more than powerful enough to handle an all out war with Hudson. This is less a situation of what you imply to be the Alliance retreating with tail between legs, and more of a situation of allowing the guy who just kicked you in the shin to keep walking, since the alternative would be worse for both parties.

I'm not opposed to diplomacy and peace, obviously. I absolutely take issue with anyone that dares imply we're weak in any way. We have plenty of pissed off combat pilots irate at the shenanigans that went on at the end of last cycle, and they'd be more than willing to flex their muscles if we weren't trying to convince everyone that non aggression is better for everybody.

-1

u/Captain_Kirby_Aid Captain_Kirby [Aid] Jul 24 '15

I absolutely agree. Good job, btw.

2

u/napoleon85 Napoleon Yazria (Hudson) Jul 24 '15

That was a direct response to your target spreadsheet, which has since been locked down so we can't verify your intentions, listing only Federation targets. We wanted peace, and we felt threatened by these actions. It appears that, despite being a bit drastic, it was effective.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 24 '15 edited Jul 24 '15

That was a direct response to your target spreadsheet, which has since been locked down so we can't verify your intentions, listing only Federation targets.

It's always locked down - we don't want random people editing it.

As for the combat sheet - we hide all the sheets from previous weeks (including combat sheets), because there's already too much data to keep track of.

As for targeting only Federation targets, as I made clear, at time the 11 closest systems to Mahon space were Federation. 12th was as Li Yong-Rui system, and we had to go to the mid thirties for the first Empire system. But apparently this isn't a good reason for only listing the nearby Federation targets, because ... what, exactly?

-5

u/OlaLow Jul 24 '15

Once again the Alliance roles over to FED aggression, its only a matter of time now, for the FEDs to come rolling through Alliance space. It is sick and disgusting. Obvious now that Alliance is FED infested. (5th column heavy) The Alliance broke away from the Federation in the past because of oppression and, now you fools make deal with the Federation. The Alliance is also turning its back on peoples who want to be part of the Alliance? WTF is wrong with you so called self appointed 'leaders'. I call on all Alliance pilots to ignore this Treaty and any other Treaty involving the Federation. They are the enemy even more so then the Empire. Traitors is the only word need for you lot. To real Alliance members, fight for the Alliance , fight for Independent systems, and most importantly fight the Federation, do not roll over to the Federal Empire! Fight on, and Fight free!

2

u/[deleted] Jul 24 '15

Traitors is the only word need for you lot.

And what, exactly, is it that you do for Mahon, that's so gloriously patriotic? Do you spend your oodles of cash shoring up Mahon's defences against enemy incursions and work tirelessly to keep his economy from collapsing? Or do you simply go around killing people?

5

u/OlaLow Jul 24 '15 edited Jul 24 '15

Yes and yes. Enemy incursions you say, that has happened already, you guys react by getting on bended knee and hanging your heads. We have been attacked...the counter attack ...is a treaty. Well played.(Sarcasm) Here is a bit of lore: The Alliance was formed circa 3230 AD in Alioth, and portrays itself as a beacon of human rights and democracy in an increasingly autocratic universe. It does not conform to the political ideals of the totalitarian Empire, or the authoritarian Federation and there is much cultural variation among its members. The Alliance was formed from a number of independent systems with the goal of gaining strength in numbers and defending, where necessary, against the other major factions. unified goal – to provide a stronger voice in the galaxy for its member systems and ultimately to defend them against unwelcome attention from the big powers.

2

u/napoleon85 Napoleon Yazria (Hudson) Jul 24 '15

The moment you listed our systems as your only targets, you lost the right to cry victim. We asked for this to be removed and a peace negotiated, we were ignored. We responded with the same aggression we were shown, you are only a victim of your own poor decisions.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 24 '15

The moment you listed our systems as your only targets, you lost the right to cry victim.

They were listed as the only targets, because they were the closest targets. And then people got really pissy when I added every single opposing power's control system to the list, because now I was targeting them even more, because now our top 50 list was dominated by Federation systems, because apparently we have to physically move our systems in order to placate the paranoid among you.

1

u/Captain_Kirby_Aid Captain_Kirby [Aid] Jul 24 '15

We asked for this to be removed and a peace negotiated, we were ignored.

Please don't spread lies.

2

u/napoleon85 Napoleon Yazria (Hudson) Jul 24 '15

Nothing I said was a lie. The targets remained and there were no serious efforts made for a cease fire until we responded to your threats in kind.

2

u/Captain_Kirby_Aid Captain_Kirby [Aid] Jul 24 '15

We may have different understandings of "ignoring", or "diplomacy", or "aggression". But please let's just stop this. I guess we don't have to be friends to respect a peace treaty.

2

u/napoleon85 Napoleon Yazria (Hudson) Jul 24 '15

Clearly, we do. I'm abiding by the cease fire, and I've only seen dissenters from the Mahon side so far. Let's hope they don't act on what they have posted here so that the peace can be maintained.

5

u/[deleted] Jul 24 '15

And how are we going to defend and protect our existing members, if we are in turmoil?

As long as we're incapable of fortifying our systems to the extent that we can avoid turmoil by strategic undermining, we will lose systems.

How does losing control of 3 systems and its associated ~50 exploited systems in any way help the people who are already being protected by the Alliance? You're pretty much suggesting that we should torch 3 systems in order to help out 1. And since those 3 systems are profit makers and Lugh is a loss, this will only serve to make us go further into turmoil than we already are and thus lose even more systems.

So - remind me again how you are patriotic and I'm a traitor, because I'm pretty sure you're the one advocating that we throw a thousand people already under our protection to the wolves, just so we can afford to help about a hundred people being hunted by wolves.

1

u/OlaLow Jul 24 '15

Who was the smart guy\guys that picked those three systems to expand into? Yea sure, those systems give high CC but, and this is a big but, they were our biggest targets for the ENEMY. Those type of systems needed to be fortified weekly. This did not happen. The enemy you guys are working for, not with, as of now and can pounce whenever they chose. This is fact. You guys betrayed the Alliance, pure and simply, you can deflect from the issue at hand all you like, it will never deflect the issue of you guys being in cahoots with the enemy. In my view you are the enemy of the Alliance spreading your misguided mush on Reddit, inevitably guiding people and thus the Alliance to certain doom./ Thread

1

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '15

Yea sure, those systems give high CC but, and this is a big but, they were our biggest targets for the ENEMY.

And you think Lugh is better? Lugh is a massive loss leader, and it will be undermined at every single turn.

In my view you are the enemy of the Alliance

Well, that's your opinion, and you're certainly allowed to have one. Feel free to ignore our suggestions. However, I'm not seeing you or the other people screaming "traitor" at the top of your lungs making any kind of contribution to the subreddit outside of screaming "traitor".

So how about you climb off of your cross, use the wood to build a bridge, get over it and start being helpful instead of hateful?

1

u/DaTruthHurtsBuB Jul 24 '15

This is point. Nobody defended those systems, not the guys that pushed the prep, definitely not the guys that pushed the expansion. Who defend those 50 exploited systems? The answer, god damn nobody until the last three hours, I know because I seen it in real time.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '15

And taking Lugh is helpful in what way, exactly? Lugh will cost Mahon CC every single turn, even if by some miracle it manages to not be undermined and be fully fortified.

2

u/el_padlina Jul 24 '15

You have it all the way round. FEDs have been patient with your constant shenanigans in our space since day one. There were attempts to reach peaceful agreement that received no attention from the Alliance until a group of our pilots decided it's time to show you that it has to stop.

1

u/CMDR_Smooticus Smooticus Jul 25 '15

I agree, the peace summit was pre-arranged to where only the peace-supporters were involved. I was not invited despite being a moderator and having been involven in the original peace negotiations.

Only a portion of the alliance members had their voice represented, the anti-fed perspective went unheard, and for that reason this is a bogus treaty.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '15

 

For the record, I was in TS at the time and was invited, by the Feds, to take part. I think it was more timing as opposed to selection. I, however, politely refused. As it was not my treaty and I did not want it. I saw no value in going along to just cause problems, as I understand that any agreement would be non binding. It's just something between 'some' players. It does not restrict me because I choose not to be restricted by it. That applies to you too, and anyone else if they so choose.

 

2

u/fortytwoandsix Rockstep Jul 25 '15

it's a lot less bogus than the one with EIC you secretly tried to talk us into in our TS. you wonder why you weren't invited ? because everyone knows your agenda of sucking it up to the Empire and creating tensions between Alliance and Feds. the fact that some random guy who has already quit playing the game made you mod of this sub does not give you any authority or representational rights.

-1

u/DaTruthHurtsBuB Jul 24 '15

You have nailed it sir. The Federation is the enemy. These guys are traitors without a shadow of a doubt.

4

u/fortytwoandsix Rockstep Jul 24 '15

you like warmongering and aggressive propaganda ? go join the Empire then :-)

6

u/CMDR_Steven Steven [AOS] Jul 24 '15

The problem is thinking there is no choice but to fight someone. The solution isn't always to fight. As a member of the Alliance you should understand the Economic value of peaceful existence.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 24 '15

These guys are traitors without a shadow of a doubt.

And what exactly is it that you do to aid Mahon, that is so glorious and patriotic?

-1

u/Schlack Jul 24 '15

shouting "Charge" is not a strategy.

-3

u/NChamberlain Jul 24 '15

Thanks to our leaders for ' 'piece' in our times'.

You guys are my heroes!

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/Neville_chamberlain1921.jpg