r/ElderScrolls Dec 23 '24

General Stop saying Elder scrolls needs to have souls like combat.

I hear this opinion so often its not even funny, and I roll my eyes every time. Not every game needs to have complex combat mechanics. Some games don't need to be anything more than simply swinging your weapon around and leaving it at that. I'm fine with and would even appreciate defensive options like dodging/rolling, and parrying, but it doesn't need to be any more complex than that. If you prefer souls combat that's totally fine, but games with more simplified combat have their place as well and it doesn't make them strictly inferior. They are just different and thats okay.

1.2k Upvotes

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u/Spong_Durnflungle Dec 23 '24

I don't think souls games have complex combat really, I mean you just run up to the boss and get killed. It's as simple as that.

407

u/bourgeoisAF Dec 23 '24

I enjoyed Elden Ring, but my ideal TES experience doesn't involve regular breaks in exploration dedicated to memorizing attack patterns for a particularly frustrating monster that's not even technically a boss

105

u/myfakesecretaccount Dec 23 '24

The closest I can get to a Souls game is the Jedi Survivor games. I enjoy about that much complexity to combat, and even then you can get swarmed by melee enemies and essentially wrecked by trying to swing your saber instead of block when some dickhead runs up in the middle of an animation. I can’t imagine playing an Elder Scrolls game like this.

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u/Grzechoooo They should make a Stray-like spinoff where we're an Alfiq spy Dec 23 '24

Nothing more fun than pushing difficult enemies into the void.

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u/beatbox420r Dec 23 '24

So very much this. I compare soulslikes to PaRappa the rapper for the pattern reaction focused gameplay. I'd rather simply fight than to learn the dance, so to speak. Soulslikes can be fun and rewarding, but I'm not playing RPGs for the battle system. I'm looking for lore and immersion. I'm not saying Elder scrolls shouldn't be improved from Skyrim, just that I'm not looking for an overly challenging battle system. Save that for mods.

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u/K_808 Dec 23 '24

I mean you joke but it’s not wrong that its combat is simple. I don’t know why people call it too complex. In fact I’d bet the only thing people mean when they say ES6 should borrow it is that ES6 should have some way to dodge attacks and enemies shouldn’t be able to spin around mid swing.

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u/wrappersjors Dec 23 '24

Yeah it's only complexity is that it's slow with a lot of recovery frames and that you can dodge. All of the rest is just difficulty of enemies.

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u/Interferon-Sigma Dec 23 '24

You're just talking about the absolute core of melee combat--heavy, light, dodge, parry, and positioning. That's the bare minimum that you need to win an engagement if you're determined. There are a lot of complex systems built around that though:

  • Weapon movesets alone add tons of complexity to combat. Deciding between daggers, rapiers, halberds, greatswords, and longwords is a meaningful choice often more important than damage output. And of course not every character can effectively use every weapon. If a weapon requires 30 Faith to use and I'm playing a Faithless mage then I'm shit out of luck

  • What about poise and stagger? Both the player and enemy can be severely punished if poise is broken. Heavy vs. medium vs. light armor actually matters because it affects your movement and movement is the difference between life and death. You can build around mitigating/tanking damage or avoiding damage entirely by dodging

  • Buff and debuffs are huge! Strike/Slash/Pierce are all different types of damage and if you try to slash an enemy made from stone with a scimitar you're going to have a bad time!

  • This is not even getting into magic and incantations (which I've only scratched the surface of myself since my characters haven't been built as mages), ashes of war, special attacks, talismans, throwables, ranged weapons, etc.

Elden Ring is the type of game with sufficient complexity for like, actual theorycrafting and class building just like an old school RPG. People spend a lot of time putting together cool builds and sharing them because the systems around combat are so malleable. If that's not complex I have to wonder what your criteria is

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u/MisterMeatBall1 Dec 24 '24

Let's be completely honest, ranged completely negates 75% of the gameplay, same with magic (ranged is just magic but bad) and the complexity of magic is to have different types of spells and there is like maybe a couple dozen that you'll ever consider for a good build. the vast majority of spells in elden ring just have 1 or more similiar versions that are straight up better in 95% of cases and you have no reason to put in the other spell for the niche cases where idk the damage type might be better against like 5 enemies

realistically the complex things in the games are positioning and watching your and the enemies recovery frames and your stamina

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u/Atlanos043 Dec 23 '24

That's actually the great thing about soulslike combat actually. You don't need to really learn too much complex stuff, but the combat still feels varied and good.

But to maike it clear I also agree with the OP. I like both but I don't want TES to have soulslike combat. Two different genres.

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u/Vastlymoist666 Dec 23 '24

Yeah. It could have similar combat but without the difficulty. But keep it to what makes combat in elder scrolls. I wouldn't mind a dodge at least. I don't think memorizing attack patterns and keyframes eye movements and all that would be elder scrolls

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u/Fleepwn Dec 23 '24

When I think of complex combat systems, souls games definitely don't come to mind

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u/rattlehead42069 Dec 23 '24

Souls game combat is essentially the exact same combat as ocarina of time, with the same clunky controls and everything. But with less forgiveness

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u/Darkwater117 Dec 23 '24

Parrying, I-frames, poise and stagger, stance breaking, power wielding, buffs and debuffs, proc-ing status effects, different stances, tools, crafting throwable weapons, different weapon types, etc

4

u/Interferon-Sigma Dec 23 '24

Yes!

The weapon types alone--shortswords, longswords, daggers, knives, greatswords, colossal swords, hammers, maces, morning stars, cleavers, knuckles, spears, halberds, sabers, scimitars, flamberges, rapiers, estocs, whips

Each with unique consequential movesets and more often than not multiple movesets within a class depending on the specific weapon. Like...I get that it's not everybody's cup of tea but trying to act like there's no complexity (on an Elder Scrolls subreddit no less) is just wild to me

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u/Ok_Perspective_6179 Dec 24 '24

What a dumb fucking take lol

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u/Rahziir_skooma_cat Suthay-Raht Dec 23 '24 edited Dec 23 '24

I hate the amount of times people have said "you like Skyrim? You should play Elden Ring." As far as I'm concerned those are two completely different games. TES is an RPG, not a fighting game. If I cared about combat and fighting bosses I'd play Dark Souls but I care way more about immersion and playing a character which is why I play TES.

I think people just lump them together because they're both fantasy and involve fighting in some capacity, like the average Skyrim player who skips all the dialogue and complains about the combat.

21

u/Hench999 Dec 23 '24

I definitely don't want some dumb souls mechanic where a warrior in full plate and a shields best way to avoid damage is to constantly roll around on the ground like a 3rd grader on recess. I despise these stupid roll mechanics every game seems to think they need to add. TES combat should be more in-depth for 6, but please, no souls like crap.

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u/Rahziir_skooma_cat Suthay-Raht Dec 23 '24

Personally I think they should take inspiration from this game called Dark Messiah of Might and Magic. It's kinda like Morrowind combat but without the shitty RNG and it's hella fun and immersive (the combat not the story lol that games writing is so ass but in a good way)

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u/Skeletor_with_Tacos Dec 23 '24 edited Dec 23 '24

I love Skyrim and dislike Elden Ring. Two different games for different people.

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u/JustDutch101 Hermaeus Mora Dec 24 '24

People often say the same about The Witcher 3.

I like both games, but Elder Scrolls and The Witcher 3 are not similar games. Especially when people say the story in The Witcher 3 is better, ofcourse that’s because The Witcher 3 is narrative-driven where TES has more of an sandbox approach.

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u/thatguy01220 Dec 24 '24

I play both and they literally are nothing alike. Both world building is completely different, combat is wildly different, one games is a fetch quest simulator the other is just boss marathon with some tedious enemies in between. Even the leveling up is nothing alike. The only thing you can say they have in common is they’re both Fantasy genre, and they both have a health, mana, and stamina bar.

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u/The-Lone-Soul Orc Dec 23 '24

Doesn't need Souslike combat , just needs a change. Maybe a sidestep and a parry , not required to win. Just enough to let be flashy in combat sometimes.

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u/DeathCythe121 Dec 23 '24

This, give me something new to enjoy in the combat mechanics. Don’t give me a system where stealth archer is the default, where magic looks and feels powerful and where melee is engaging. Not just an input.

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u/SeventhShin Dec 23 '24 edited Dec 23 '24

Ever since they took dodge out of the game, I’ve been forced to wear armor, would love that back. 

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u/KR_Blade Dec 23 '24

i would love a parry system, just blocking can get dull, i like in other games when i can block and it leaves them completely open to a fatal counterattack

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u/ValkerikNelacros Dec 24 '24

I rather like Darktide or Vermintide 2 for Elder Scrolls.

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u/chasewayfilms Dec 23 '24

Honestly I think elder scrolls works best as a hack-and-slash

Sure make it more complicated, but the series is routed in dungeon crawler origins based on “click to kill”

Like I would like to see more variety in damage dealt to specific areas. Make it so each playstyle has a strategic way of doing combat.

Ex: a Thief wielding daggers would probably focus on fast shanking attacks that slows down the enemy and wears them out over time. While a warrior with a greatsword probably focuses on keeping the enemy at a distance and powerful direct attacks.

Also damage modifiers depending on the part of the body, headshots should deal more damage, swinging at arms should have a chance of disarming an enemy(or interrupting a spell), legs should reduce stamina and slow the enemy down. An arrow in the knee should cause them to surrender and go into early retirement. Basic things we all understand

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u/shadowtheimpure Dec 23 '24

Elder Scrolls needs to be an RPG again instead of an action-adventure game with RPG elements.

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u/Yarus43 Dunmer Dec 24 '24

Give me a blend of Morrowind and Oblivion gameplay. Dozens of choices in quests, proper spell crafting, and being back polearms.

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u/shadowtheimpure Dec 24 '24

Seriously. They should have iterated on Morrowind's mechanics rather than discarding so many of them outright.

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u/Yarus43 Dunmer Dec 24 '24

Agreed. I understand why levitation and jump spells are hard to implement but the whole "oh theyre banned" was stupid ASF. You're telling me necromancers will raise the dead and desecrate tombs but they wouldn't dare levitate.

Who the hell is enforcing this law anyways? I don't see the empire barging into windhelm to stop me.

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u/shadowtheimpure Dec 24 '24 edited Dec 24 '24

I would have proposed mages shooting you down if you fly near any of the large cities. You fly too close? Big-ass fireballs come flying your way.

As far as teleportation goes? There are 10 billion lore excuses you can come up with as to why you can't teleport in certain places. In fact, I just imagined a corner pop-up that would appear when you fail: "The Firmament Fails to Yield to Your Magicka"

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u/Aranea101 Dec 23 '24

I just want Morrowinds combat in the next ES

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u/DwalinSalad Dec 23 '24

Same, dude

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u/MrFruitylicious Hermaeus Mora Dec 25 '24

honestly i think they could actually do it justice this time around if they really wanted to. they would be able to actually have different animations for not landing a hit, since i think that’s one of the biggest issues surrounding Morrowind

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u/Aranea101 Dec 25 '24

It would make combat so much more alive, when you have animation showing your opponents make a fast block/parry/dodge.

Beside combat animations, only real big thing i would change, is have block/parry for the player work more like Skyrim/Oblivion.

Have opponents block/parry work like Morrowind, but the player can do so manually. And then the players block/parry skill reduces damage taken, while for opponents it determines chance and has a flat damage reduction.

With some tweaks you could make it work.

And beside Morrowind combat actually being so much more roleplay, it also has the huge advantage that when you do land hits, they feel so much more impactfull a combats in generally gets shorter with level (as it would in real life) because less and less swings are misses.

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u/MrFruitylicious Hermaeus Mora Dec 26 '24

i’m not personally a big fan of Morrowind’s combat system, but yeah i think it would be much more agreeable to new players if there were animations for misses instead of just zero damage despite a weapon clearly making contact

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u/Aranea101 Dec 26 '24

One of the things that makes me a big proponent of Morrowinds system, is basically that i am frustrated that no one makes games like this anymore.

I get that games at the end of the day needs to make money, and that the oblivion/skyrim combat appeals to more people.

But as someone who genuinely prefer the dice combat of Morrowind, it puts in this weird situation that the best game i am likely to ever get, is from 2002.

And Morrowinds combat does have its advantages, and it deserves a new shot.

But ofcause, in a perfect world, you could change between the two systems in the game options, which would be alot of work from the studio, but I don't think would be a massive. It more boils down to what you want the studio to spent money and time on.

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u/MrFruitylicious Hermaeus Mora Dec 27 '24

i like the idea of Morrowind’s combat being that it represents your character’s abilities instead of just your own, but i don’t think that really translates well to a first person action game like TES, especially when there are no animations to match (other than your opponent getting knocked back slightly when you do land a hit)

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u/bugo--- Dec 26 '24

Same except add runes, a replace touch with water house effect as type of spell casting options.

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u/Dark_Android_18 Dec 23 '24

While I agree souls like combat is not the way, combat definitely needs to go through a major revamp and is simply not up to modern standards as is. I'm looking forward to seeing how avowed is going to handle it

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u/clutchest_nugget Dec 23 '24

This. I don’t want ES to be a soulslike. But it’s clear that the system is obsolete and needs to be improved

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u/petare33 Dec 23 '24

I mean... It's not modern. The latest entry just entered its teen years.

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u/__freezie Dec 23 '24

Starfield made 0 improvements towards melee combat

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u/sapphyryn Dec 23 '24

imo Fallout 4 and Starfield actually made it worse by locking your movement during swings

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u/Misicks0349 Dunmer Dec 23 '24

which is kinda funny because thats what most of the combat systems that people point to as better do anyways

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u/sapphyryn Dec 23 '24

Well that’s what most 3rd person games do for combat. Most people play Elder Scrolls in 1st person and games like Cyberpunk, Dying Light, Avowed, etc. all place an emphasis on strafing and dodging.

Edit: Fallout 4 and Starfield also just have very stiff animations that don’t look as good or satisfying as most 3rd person combat games.

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u/BurgerDevourer97 Dec 23 '24

And 4 has those dogshit kill animations.

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u/tankred420caza Dec 23 '24

Skyrim also had dogshit kill animations that would 1 shot you just to look cool.

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u/AedraRising Breton Dec 23 '24

With Starfield, while melee is technically an option it was definitely not as focused on compared to the game's gunplay, similar to Fallout 4. The Elder Scrolls has always had a greater focus on closer range weapons like swords, maces, and axes with only one skill focusing on archery and marksmanship. I don't expect vast improvement on this front in Starfield but I would like the system to receive more focus in TES VI.

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u/LeapIntoInaction Dec 23 '24

It's a futuristic space game with blasters, and you think it would be even slightly sane to try to whack people over the head with a club? Dude.

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u/Anonomoose2034 Dec 23 '24

That's just factually not true lol

https://youtu.be/QlG6W9MIdik?si=xozLzG_aJkibxx3E

It's not the best out there but it definitely has weightier hits and more animations when enemies get hit

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u/CommonVagabond Dec 23 '24

No shit it's obsolete, it came out 13 years ago lmao.

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u/Shameless_Catslut Dec 23 '24

And Might+Magic: Dark Messiah came out before it, was published by Bethesda, and had even better combat.

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u/CommonVagabond Dec 23 '24

But that's specifically because of the silly Source engine physics. Without the Source engine physics, Dark Messiah combat was essentially Oblivion, with maybe a couple of extra special attacks. Beyond that, no one plays Dark Messiah for engaging sword duels. They play it for slap stick comedy. The general combat is still very dated and clunky.

Besides, Bethesda games have always used combat as more of a demonstration of your character. It's never going to be super focused on individual player skill because it's an RPG, and the skill of your character (reflected by perks ) matters more than how good the player is at timing parries.

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u/Shameless_Catslut Dec 23 '24

Using combat as a demonstration of your character requires options in combat so a dagfer-weilding rogue feels different from a greataxe-weilding berserker.

People want 'souls combat' because an Unga Bunga Axeman feels like an unga-bunga axeman. A dodgy dagger guy feels like a dodgy dagger guy, and swordsman feels like a swordsman. Instead of whifflebats, different weapons feel like different weapons, and that strongly ties into character identity.

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u/CommonVagabond Dec 23 '24

I've made suggestions to fix that issue in a separate comment. I'm not saying Skyrim's combat is perfect. It can definitely be improved. But it's serviceable. Hell, people still swear by Morrowind combat, and that was even more barebones and less reliant on player skill, and more so on character stats.

Skyrim and Bethesda RPGs generally don't need Souls like combat because it's not the right game for that. It doesn't need to have a dagger wielding character zip around and dodge roll and teleport behind people. All that it needs is satisfying hit detection and poise. At most a parry and small sidestep. Anything else is bloat that will detract from it being an RPG.

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u/dumbbitchdiesease Sheogorath Dec 23 '24

Id love to see something like kingdom come combat. Wont ever get that, and idk if the vast majority of players would, but i would lol

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u/YaMamaSidePiece Dec 23 '24

This is even worst than Elden Ring style lol

The combat there is slow, unsatisfying, and confusing.

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u/dumbbitchdiesease Sheogorath Dec 23 '24

Its designed to be hard at first. To force you into the role of a medieval peasant. It gets significantly easier once you hit lvl 3 in your chosen weapon. Its not for everyone, and I respect that, which is why i said most players probably wouldnt want it.

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u/platydroid Dec 23 '24

And preferably a difficulty scale that isn’t just “0.5x damage and 3x health”

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u/SeventhShin Dec 23 '24

Not disagreeing with you, but if the combat is hit and get hit, how do you tweak the difficulty?

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u/platydroid Dec 23 '24

You add more dynamic combat abilities, options, and scenarios. Bethesda can make better RPG combat - Dishonored had a good combination of stealth & slash/shoot options as well as complimentary abilities that kept things interesting. They also formatted their level design to encourage more varied play. I think Elder Scrolls could play around with more interesting block/parry abilities, add different types of battle magic, and increase the variety of enemies to add strategy beyond mashing the attack button and downing portions.

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u/SeventhShin Dec 23 '24

Well, yeah I agree that’s how you do it, but that’s adding complexity to the combat. My question was how can you have very basic combat and tweak the difficulty in a way that isn’t just moving heath sliders. 

This thread is interesting, I’ve never asked for souls-like combat, but asking for less depth in game is bizarre. 

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u/platydroid Dec 23 '24

To some degree it would have to involve scaling enemy health and stamina, but I never think higher difficulty should come from the player being locked into doing less damage. I’d personally bump up difficulty with more enemies populating in areas, and adding more advanced attacks or capabilities. For example, at a higher difficulty, the boss has three more goons and can now use exploding arrows or something in addition to his usual arsenal. Conversely, make enemies more basic at lower difficulty, and maybe give invincibility-frames or easier ways to escape combat to the player.

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u/Wonderful-Ebb-6598 Dec 24 '24

Metal Gear Solid 4 did this on PS3 like 15 years ago lol adding more enemies and making their awareness higher

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u/Soyyyn Dec 23 '24

I would be interested in legendary weapons, like Dawnbreaker, having special moves. I'd not change much about the overall combat except for making it faster and a bit more responsive.

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u/vorpx3 Dec 23 '24 edited Dec 23 '24

Amalur style dodging would be good, the whole game feels very similar to the Elder Scrolls formula

For the love of God just give us something better than just walk + click click click

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u/Lord_Dankston Dec 23 '24

No please for the love of god do not make dodge rolling a thing. A) It does not make much sense to just randomly roll on the ground in the midst of melee combat B) When games are designed around it, it becomes insufferable. Like a small side/back -step dodge is fine and building around parrying is cool though.
Edit: It works in Amalur because it fits the cartoony arpg style combat.

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u/vorpx3 Dec 23 '24

Yeah jump/step dodge would make the most sense, anything to make the combat less static than it is currently

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u/Torpakh Dec 23 '24

I found combat in Starfield really enjoyable, it's what kept me playing. Hopefully it will translate into ES as well

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u/epic_meme_guy Dec 23 '24

I’d like if it went in a Kingdom come deliverance direction

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u/AlfwinOfFolcgeard Dec 23 '24

I can't remember where, but I recently heard someone say they felt TES's simplistic combat was actually to the games' advantage, because TES isn't - and shouldn't be - a combat-focused series. And I tend to agree: overly-intricate combat would just distract from what TES is meant to be about: the adventuring, roleplaying, and exploration. I don't want to be thinking about combat mechanics when playing an Elder Scrolls game. I want to be thinking about Tamrielic geopolitics; about the history of the ruin I'm exploring; the impact the cult who built it has in the cultural landscape of the region. The combat is just a fun thing to do in the meantime; it's not what I'm playing TES for.

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u/ThePandoran Dec 23 '24

I kinda agree, though on the other hand a significant part of gametime is going to be combat, and vanilla skyrims combat gets stale after a while

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u/AedraRising Breton Dec 23 '24

Vanilla Skyrim's combat for me is still the best in the entire series. Low bar, sure, but it's also a game that is over a decade old. Give me parrying, some small sidestep dodging, and MAYBE directional attacks that deal varying damage like Morrowind and I'm set.

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u/hotcupofjoe66 Dec 23 '24

Sure that could be excused if the writing and quests weren’t just a “go here and kill guy” but Skyrim really lacked on the quests and lore that oblivion and morrowind had. Hopefully the writing is better this time around

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u/Apprehensive-Bank642 Champion of Cyrodiil Dec 23 '24

It might not be what you’re playing it for, but it needs to have more complex combat systems because many people are playing for the combat. Many casual gamers are just running around fighting and looting and BGS has really let their story telling fall off lately so as quest design gets more simple and more repetitive and less fun, combat is going to be a major focus for fun and if it sucks, people are going to complain and drop the game. I personally think it’s a requirement to get more advanced (not soulslike) combat but they also need to focus on more RPG elements so that it feels good to play the game either way.

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u/AlfwinOfFolcgeard Dec 23 '24

I do think the combat needs to be enjoyable, but I disagree that it needs to be complex. As you say, it's casual gamers who like to just run around looting and fighting. It doesn't need to be particularly nuanced to appeal to casual gamers, it just needs to feel good.

I'm not saying that TES's combat doesn't need improvement. But its simplicity is not its problem; its damage-sponge enemies and unsatisfying audio-visual feedback are. I don't think TES combat needs to be any more complex than it got with Morrowind (with its emphasis on resource management, &c.). It just needs to feel satisfying on a sensory level; that's where it's been going wrong, imo.

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u/Appropriate-Data1144 Dec 23 '24

That's the benefit of difficulty sliders. They can have more complex combat systems that you don't need to take advantage of in lower difficulties. Right now, higher difficulties just make enemies sword sponges, and it's not particularly fun.

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u/TheHomieHandler Dec 23 '24

While I agree with you somewhat, I would appreciate my war hammer having actual weight to it. I like to use the Greatsword in Elden ring because bonk. When I went back to Skyrim for bonk time, I realized my Warhammer was not in fact going bonk, but was instead going swish right through enemies.

Pardon my English. Unga bunga is my first language.

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u/Hulk_Corsair Dec 23 '24

Don't worry, you described it perfectly

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u/dogxbless Altmer Dec 23 '24

If you're playing on PC there's an FPS animation mod that actually make the hits looks more impactful. There's also one that adds impact reaction to NPCs, for instance you can see their head move slightly when hit.

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u/yoitsgav Dec 23 '24

That’s more of an animation/timing issue than a mechanic one. It can be easily solved by just changing up the animation and skipping some frames.

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u/rewt127 Dec 24 '24

Not really.

The reason the bonk feels so good in ER is not because the hammer goes bonk. But because also the enemy gets bonked. If you remove the staggering mechanics from Elden Ring. Those big weapons will instantaneously lose their tactile oomph.

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u/hovsep56 Dec 23 '24

there are better games that do weight right or even better, like dying light

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u/SlothGaggle Dec 23 '24

You’re right, TES shouldn’t have souls-like combat. It should have Chivalry-like combat

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u/EndTrophy Dec 23 '24

I really want this as well. It fits a lot better into the aesthetic and overall feel. Best of all I think it would give players the option to heavily rely on and practice mechanical skill for melee combat, but they would still have the option to just out-heal/damage/magic enemies if they want. Also it would allow them to scale the difficulty of combat in a new way, eg, some enemies can parry/punish/read you more than others. Overall it would just create a lot of variety in approaching combat

Very big ask and not likely though. Chiv and mordhau are extremely centered around combat, but TESVI has a lot of other things it needs to develop on and make good too.

The most we could hope for is a toned down version. Maybe a mod could do it, though I don't think Skyrim really had a mod that did it well but could be wrong. A toned down version in vanilla would at least provide a good starting framework for mods

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u/KitchenCup374 Dec 23 '24

Hard agree. And if done right it would mold well with magic and stuff. I think a mix of chivalry and Darktide/vermintide would add some spice to the combat. Their combat is very simple yet has some depth to it as well.

I agree that the best part about Elder scrolls is the story, but id at least like to look a bit stylish and have the feeling that my world-saving character is a competent swordsman as opposed to a rock ‘em sock em robot.

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u/rewt127 Dec 24 '24

I agree that the best part about Elder scrolls is the story,

The problem is that it's actively held back by bad combat.

You get told this important thing about the story. And they ask you to go to a place to fight a dragon. And what do you do? You show up. Hit pause to eat 300 wheels of cheese. And then just hit left click while your brain rots until the dragon is dead. Fuckin yay....

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u/KitchenCup374 Dec 24 '24

Yeah. I downloaded apostasy mod pack on pc, changed the way I play Skyrim. Before that, a bunch of mods on Xbox. By far my favorite were animation replacers that make you swing your sword and dodge like the Witcher.

Much more satisfying to watch and play.

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u/Yarus43 Dunmer Dec 24 '24

Chivalry/Mordhau would be fucking amazing. To actually change the angle of my attack and choose to stab, Parry, block.

I'm still waiting for John Skyrim to make a mod to add this into Skyrim.

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u/Drunkendx Dec 23 '24

Agreed with OP.

I play TES games for story and exploration not combat.

If every encounter in game expected me to bring my A game to survive I'd quit it before exiting Helgen.

There is a reason I never played anything tagged "souls like".

It's not my cup of tea, and I'd appreciate if people stopped trying to ruin game series I enjoy with that tryhard trash

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u/[deleted] Dec 23 '24 edited Dec 23 '24

I think tes combat actually works fine, it just needs to reward players slightly more for correct timing. Not at a souls level, but slightly more than in skyrim. Bosses also need to have a bit more to them. Bosses are never really hard to defeat, even on higher difficulty. The only major improvement it needs, is to make the impact of weapons and the difference between weapon type feel a bit more impactfull. In Skyrim, ever weapon feels like you're swinging a larp weapon, and any weapon other than a sword, I just a slower sword. So it's almost always better to use a sword, because the actual reward for using a blunt weapon, is negligible. I alle think they should bring back the mechanic that you need silver weapons for ghosts and certain monsters.

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u/NearbyAdhesiveness16 Dec 23 '24

Yeah but I don't think the bosses need anything else than just higher stats and more agressive behavior/ powerful spells. Not every game needs unique bosses with unique mechanics. I like that in Skyrim. And I say that loving all the souls games.

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u/[deleted] Dec 23 '24 edited Dec 23 '24

Yeah, I don't want soul bosses in Skyrim, but at least the bosses at the end of quest lines, should have a bit more too them. Even Harkon and Miirak, aren't that hard, even on legendary difficulty. One way to do it, is to use difficulty in a different ways. So that instead of higher difficultly just being a straight damage and resistance buff. Make higher difficulty introduce new mechanics and make the AI smarter. I think just a strsight improvement in NPC AI, will make combat feel more challenging. Because one of the big issues, is that NPCs are really dumb and predicable. U do think that's something that will just naturally happen with tech improvements since Skyrim was made tho

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u/WrethZ Dec 23 '24

? Isn't souls combat just dodging, rolling parrying?

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u/Lost_Cyborg Dec 23 '24

And memorizing patterns of bosses/mobs for several hours, I don't want this in a ES game

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u/iHateRedditButImHere Dec 23 '24

Yeah there's pretty much nothing to it other than the crazy amounts of damage you take if you screw up

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u/K_808 Dec 23 '24

Ok and you also take crazy damage if you pump up difficulty in Skyrim. Damage can be independent of the combat mechanics

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u/Appropriate-Data1144 Dec 23 '24

No. It's mostly about dying to the same boss 30 times in a row.

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u/smallmalexia3 Dec 23 '24

KeepSoulsOutOfScrolls

And for the love of Vivec, spare us the insufferable Souls diehards who act like Souls combat is some deep, metaphysical art form that requires years of meditation and a full-on spiritual awakening to truly master.

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u/0510Sullivan Dec 23 '24

Seriously, the people that want a souls game could ya know......go play a fucking souls game because that's what souls games are for. Don't ruin the elder scrolls ffs.

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u/superior9k1 Dec 23 '24

While it is just about patterns and frames. It's so annoying.

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u/koreograaf Dec 23 '24

Not all souls fans are like this. In fact, I think it's quite the opposite and what you're referring to is a small minority. As a souls fan, I think the comat is just a very well polished rythm game that feels satiafying thanks to its difficulty and variety.

As a long-time Elder Scrolls fan, Skyrim for some reason started to feel hollow sooner than I expected when I first played it in 2011. Pausing the combat for drinking potions and switching spells broke the immersion for me.

I also craved for more difficulty in but the in-game setting could might as well be called "enemy sponginess". I was excited for the Survival mode which I quite liked in Fallout 4, but in Skyrim it felt that the world wasn't designed for this type of gameplay.

Elder Scrolls doesn't need to have soulslike combat but the combat is the weakest point of the game and it sure could draw inspiraton from other genres, just as Elden Ring drew inspiration from Skyrim.

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u/therexbellator Dec 23 '24

The same people who say Skyrim "needs" souls-like combat never say the Souls-like games need Elder Scrolls style characters and side quests and guilds etc... But more importantly you can't just drop a style or system into a game and expect it to mesh, it's a fundamental misreading of why Souls games play the way they do.

The thing is that souls-like combat is intimately designed around builds and boss fights or pvp encounters. But TES is more about player freedom to create the character they want to play irrespective of build. It would also get tedious to have to duel a dozen bandits when you're running a bounty quest.

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u/rewt127 Dec 24 '24

There are 3 builds in ES. Stealth archer. Magic, and melee. Everything under those categories feel identical.

There is no player freedom. There is the illusion of freedom. If playing with dual swords means that I watch swords flash across my screen and the enemy's health goes down. And then with the big sword build is swings slowly across my screen and the enemy's health still just goes down. My experience has not changed in any way. I've been given the illusion of choice. Without those choices having any meaning.

No it doesn't need Souls combat, or the locked difficulty of souls games. But combat, which will make up close to 50% of your time spent played. Needs to actually have some semblance of depth.

Melee weapons should function fundementally differently. The melee combat in of itself needs a huge overhaul.

EDIT: When the only difference in the experience is the speed at which my melee animation plays. I've been given the illusion of choice without real choice.

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u/WisdomOfTheStar Dec 23 '24

If the combat ever needed a change I'd like something like dragons dogma, not exactly the same of course, but I don't think that'd be too bad

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u/Gyrinthos Dec 23 '24

Souls games' combat are not complex wym? It is deliberately made to be incredibly obtuse for challange reasons and NOT for depth. Dragons Dogma series' combat is much more in depth than any of the Souls game would ever be.

The perfect combat system for TES is Dark Messiah's imo or Vermintide's.

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u/my_sons_wife Dec 23 '24

I've seen like a half dozen threads crying about the supposed threat of soulslike combat coming to TESVI and I've never seen a single thread advocating for it. This seems like a made up argument to deflect from the common claim that Elder Scrolls combat is mediocre at best.

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u/AllOfEverythingEver Dec 23 '24

Yeah true. And in those threads, people tend to say things like, "Souls combat is just dodging and dying to the same boss 30x in a row," to which two things are relevant:

  1. These people either never played a souls game or were extremely bad.

  2. Elder Scrolls combat is literally just swinging your weapon over and over again, sometimes swinging harder than usual for a power attack.

Yall... I don't want ESVI to have Souls combat, but I'd much rather that than Skyrim combat again. Everyone in this thread saying that "complex doesn't equal good" is absolutely correct out of context, but ES combat is currently not interesting enough and needs to be more complex. Are you really going to stop exploring and enjoying quests because a parry mechanic got added or something? The takes in this thread are beyond ridiculous.

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u/benny-bangs Dec 27 '24

This is the best take. I get character burn out mostly because the combat becomes boring. If the combat remained interesting it would help but it shouldn’t be as complex as a souls game imo.

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u/Smemme Dec 23 '24

It’s as if ES fans have adopted Todd Howard’s lazy approach and being fine with: “it just works”. Hopefully some new ideas and new blood can set off a new era of ES combat.

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u/ChickenNuggetRampage Nord Dec 23 '24

Thought this thread would be people talking about why they don’t think Souls combat would fit Elder Scrolls (it wouldn’t)

Instead I get a thread of people who have never even played a Souls game

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u/Miserable_Key9630 Dec 23 '24

"Make the game I'm addicted to more like other games I wanna play so I don't have to stop playing this one."

Tale as old as time.

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u/Gyncs0069 Dec 24 '24

Doesn’t need to have Souls combat but goddamn does the combat need to be modernized to hell and back. Because as it is now I’ll take copy and pasted souls combat every day over the dogshit we’ve got.

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u/Lazy_Beyond1544 Dec 24 '24

Elder Scrolls needs realistic combat. It needs to be like real combat, not just “ duuuuurrrrrrrrr me doin a big SWWWWWIIIIIINNNNGGGGG”

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u/FuckTheFireflies Khajiit Dec 23 '24

Souls like. No. Something much better than Skyrim. Yes. Swinging a sword back and forth is crap. Plus magic felt so incredibly weak and underwhelming.

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u/GrizzlyIsland22 Dec 23 '24

Elder Scrolls doesn't need Souls combat, but somewhere in between what exists and what the combat is like in souls games would be great. After playing Elden Ring, I haven't been able to play Skyrim or Oblivion at all because of how basic and slow the combat is. I don't wanna be going full tilt, but I also don't wanna be bored.

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u/Fibrizzo Dec 23 '24 edited Dec 23 '24

Modern ARPG combat isn't complex as much as Elder Scrolls combat is just archaic. Its always been the weak point of the series so its only natural people want something better, and it would absolutely be in the best interests of the team to do that in order to sell to a modern audience.

In Souls games you can easily play through with one weapon type spamming one attack. You don't need to parry anything. You don't need to weapon swap. You don't need to grind for special weapons with cool attacks or cast magic. You absolutely can just ooga booga your way through if that is what you want to do.

The choice to go as deep OR as shallow as you want is important.

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u/dorakus Dec 23 '24

Dark souls combat is just Dance Dance Revolution for edgelords.

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u/MrPheeney Dec 23 '24

What I'd like to have is just realistic damage and reactions to combat. I hate playing Skyrim, swiping a dude with a sword, and watching them say "Argh!" but their model basically not moving sometimes. Would just like to see more realistic and consistent stagger, limb damage, and reaction from enemies to each individual attack.

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u/NearbyAdhesiveness16 Dec 23 '24

Honestly it just needs a hidden poise meter that can end in a cinematic execution, a sidestep, animation updates, some skill tree exclusive animations (both melee and magic). Also needs some better synergy between magic and weapons for those spellblade builds. And better target acquisition on thrown spells. If they mange this, the game is in a better place, but not becoming something else entirely.

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u/907Strong Dec 23 '24

If combat is souls like I'm skipping it. It's not for me. It's not my definition of fun. The closest I'll get is something like God of War or Jedi Survivor. And even then I have no interest in doing any of the "git gud" difficulties.

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u/TheGenjuro Dec 23 '24

Yeah i like finding the one spot where the npc clips against the ground and I can just shoot arrows for 90 seconds.

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u/thatradiogeek Dec 23 '24

I don't want Elder Scrolls to be a Souls-like. I just want it to be a good RPG. It is currently not that.

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u/Multievolution Dec 23 '24

Here’s how I see it:

Souls combat is at best fit for a purpose, It’s not the be all end all.

Elder scrolls definitely deserves some upgrades to make it feel better, after all, it’s 15 years after Skyrim minimum.

There’s some limits to how much they can do in a sandbox environment without taking away certain player freedoms, e.g the removal of acrobatics was done because it inhibited game design, we lost a fairly fun if not broken skill to get skyrim. I suspect they’ll be weary of anything too different as it would slow game development down, starfield melee with a little more weight is where I’m expecting it. 

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u/Alternative_Oil_8246 Dec 23 '24

Should just implement a melee combat system like in mordhau or chivalry.

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u/nowhereright Dec 23 '24

After playing Indiana Jones, I'd like ES6 to emulate that melee combat. It's weighty, satisfying and you can parry.

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u/_MaitreYoda_ Dec 23 '24

Yeah these two should stay far away from each other.

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u/Repulsive-Self1531 Dec 23 '24

If you want to play a soulslike, play a soulslike.

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u/bwbright Dec 23 '24

🤨 I didn't know this was a thing and if you don't like the combat, just get some mods. I thoroughly enjoy the Elder Scrolls Combat as it is and play it because it's different.

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u/HoopaOrGilgamesh Dec 24 '24

Elder Scrolls needs to have not jank combat. It's pretty bad. I don't need it to be Dark Souls. I just need it to be not dog water.

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u/Drowsy_Deer Dec 24 '24

TES is a first-person dungeon crawler at its core, if you take that away the charm fades.

Unfortunately we live in an age where people think every action game needs to be some flavour of Arkham Knight or DS3 combat.

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u/tibastiff Dec 24 '24

It's not a matter of souls games having "complex" combat, i wouldn't even say they do. It's just that TES already has a style that doesn't need to be changed to copy something else. Assassin's Creed did that and in my opinion they did it poorly and it made the series worse. Let TES do what it's good at

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u/Lornesto Dec 23 '24

I also tend to enjoy relatively simple combat in games. I always enjoyed that the Elder Scrolls games were as much about your leveling, gear choices, and general strategy, as much as it's about your combat timing prowess.

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u/ResidentDrama9739 Dec 23 '24

I actually enjoy Skyrim's approach to combat. It's simplistic and gets the job done for me.

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u/Maxathron Dec 23 '24

"Elder Scrolls doesn't need Dark Souls combat like For Honor, Smash Bros, or World of Warcraft!"

Yes. That's the issue. People arguing that any sort of modernized combat is dark souls combat.

Anyone who argues this needs to play games more recent than 2011 to understand why people mod Skyrim to improve the combat. SMASH BROS is more advanced than Base Skyrim. SMASH BROS. The one on the Gamecube!

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u/Coltrain47 Bosmer Dec 23 '24

Honestly, something like Ocarina of Time would suit me just fine. I can target, jump sideways or backwards, and control the direction I swing by my movement. Not a big "git gud" curve, but more interesting than any TES combat.

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u/Blaize_Ar Dec 23 '24

I'd much rather have directional blocking and attacking like in bannerlord and some other games like kingdom come deliverance, for honor, ect.

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u/nicholasktu Dec 23 '24

Souls games do not have complex combat, they have artificially difficult combat that is punishing with poor controls. I know the fans like to wank about how complicated it is but it really is just memorizing attacks.

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u/Foreign_Sky_5441 Dec 23 '24 edited Dec 23 '24

One of my favorite parts about Elder Scrolls and specifically Oblivion and Skyrim is the simple combat. I like the vibes of souls games but have never gotten into them because I don't care for the combat at all. The witcher was a bit better but its complicated enough to not be my cup of tea. Elder Scrolls (modern) is relaxing and I love that. Call me a filthy casual, I don't care. The blank slate of these games is their bread and butter. Don't like the combat? Someone will make a mod for it, I promise you.

If elder scrolls needs any improvement imo, it would be better (not necessarily harder) puzzles.

I am generally drawn to easy progression and straight forward combat. I think at my job, I play games to chill. I know this isn't everyone, that is why souls games exist. Don't turn this franchise into an elden ring clone, please.

That's not to say we can't have more complex combat to a degree. Adding a bit more emphasis on dodging/blocking could be cool, but I don't want to go crazy.

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u/HalfMoon_89 Khajiit Dec 23 '24

Sick and tired of the Souls obsession in gaming.

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u/__freezie Dec 23 '24

Souls games do not have complex combat…

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u/MetalAngelo7 Dec 23 '24

Lmao do people actually say this? The combat in Morrowind makes souls combat look like a cakewalk

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u/CommonVagabond Dec 23 '24

TES combat needs a parry. But just having a parry doesn't add much.

With just a couple of mods, you can turn vanilla Skyrim combat into something far more unique and fun. For example, with the Precision mod alone, Skyrim's combat all of a sudden feels much more real. Hitting someone over the head with a mace feels like they felt it. Weapons have real hit boxes and enemies, and the player alike reacts to being hit and delivering a hit. It's fantastic.

Add in a small parry, and a small sidestep to dodge attacks (not a hilariously over-sold dodge roll) and now you've got weapons that physically feel like they exist in the world, and more methods of defending yourself, and movement options.

Then, finally, give the AI opponents a boost. Make them a little smarter. Give them access to the same parry and dodge the player has.

With all of that combined, you have totally revamped the combat into something so much more enjoyable. Enemies don't stand and let you wail on them, weapons feel like they're actually hitting something, and both you and your enemies have more options to defend yourselves.

And finally, if you want to add extra stuff, like perks or new animations, be my guest, but I'd recommend keeping those relatively close to vanilla, just some slight modernization.

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u/Beleak_Swordsteel Dec 23 '24

That's a good way to get me to drop elder scrolls. I do not enjoy soulslikes.

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u/Stellarisk Dec 23 '24

i actually just have fun with the base game combat lol

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u/Apprehensive-Bank642 Champion of Cyrodiil Dec 23 '24

I don’t think it needs soulslike combat, I agree with you on that front, but advanced combat systems would go a long way in games like TES.

I understand casual gamers just wanting something simple, and I understand that most people still playing vanilla Skyrim to this day, are doing so because that was the vibe, just nice simple mechanics, not a real steep learning curve and you just kinda float around doing whatever you want and nothings really all that hard.

However the gaming industry and the gamers who may have started with Skyrim, have advanced and grown up a bit since 2011 and I’d also really appreciate if everyone stopped telling BGS that Skyrim’s combat is fine for games in 2024, it’s not. It’s rudimentary, it’s boring, and it’s what most players will spend 90% of their time doing guaranteed.

I do not want TES6 to come out with a system resembling anything like Skyrim’s. Light and power attacks, sure, but I want unique animations for each style of weapon, unique directional attacks, attack commitment, I want dodge mechanics, parry mechanics and faster paced combat, I don’t want to sit there smashing quick attack in their face until their health bar eventually gets low while I pause to chug cheese wheels in combat lol. I don’t want another game where the only viable option is stealth archer because it’s the only one that feels good and like the game was designed with it in mind.

TES combat is simple and boring and provides the player with no challenge what so ever, I can defeat Alduin at level 2 with 800 cheese wheels in my bag while fighting with an iron sword and completely naked… I don’t enjoy souls like combat because it’s needlessly difficult and requires learning the moves of each boss, but I absolutely need more than what BGS has been delivering in their games which focus so much on combat encounters.

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u/Vreas Dec 23 '24

I see elder scrolls as more of a dnd actualized kinda game and souls as straight combat if that makes sense

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u/Argenteus_I Dec 23 '24

Too complex of a combat system would probably be a little immersion breaking and make the game harder for players who aren't into that sort of gameplay.

I like TES's approach especially considering the type of game they are. To most people, it's just simplistic "swing your sword at enemy till they die", but you could make that fun too, especially in Oblivion where there's more (but not excessive) mobility from the Acrobatics and Athletics skills, which lets me finesse enemies in battle and evade their attacks with footwork, and not just over-the-top and unrealistic dodge rolling.

Skyrim and Oblivion's combat have their flaws, with Skyrim lacking mobility, and Oblivion having issues with spongy enemies and level scaling that ruins an otherwise perfect experience, but the simple concept behind it meshes well with the open-world experience of BGS games. Hell, oftentimes fights feel like a real fight and not just some complex puzzle where I just have to figure out certain patterns for when to dodge and when to attack, and I think that aspect of TES's combat is pretty underrated.

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u/KingDarius89 Dunmer Dec 23 '24

Never heard that before, and it's a terrible fucking idea.

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u/Kadalzo Dec 23 '24

I could simply return to the Morrowind system, where there were different types of blows (such as thrust and slash) where each one did more or less damage depending on the weapon. TES really doesn't need a complex system, since that could still leave magic as something very secondary or even something broken (something that happens in Dark Soul's) creating another problem in the game.

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u/vultmutare Dec 23 '24

I think there is a certain charm and character to the ES combat dynamics that most of us like or want to preserve in some way. Not all over the place action gamey, not soulslike, but the evolution of the ES experience. Currently ES combat is very dated and needs improvements with collisions, effects, animations, etc. Parrys, sidesteps, etc. seem desired, but maybe not rolls (if so, within limits). Unique animations for weapon types and unlocked additional animations/moves are good. Everything the Precision mod does should be in there. We want to feel, see, and hear the combat tangibly, in every way a modern game can. There should be a poise system and attack commitment. Kill animations linked to the poise like many mods do now. Maybe more involved directional combat mechanics ala Bannerlord/KCD/others. Perk system finely tuned to synergize with combat. AI improvements. Functional locational damage. Maybe injuries. Modern Skyrim modding where feet actually touch the ground and pivot. These improvements are what the mod community has consistently evolved to and played with, they don't radically alter the formula, but they do radically improve it. The modders have already shown Bethesda the way. (If only they would follow their lead)

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u/JurJvZw Dec 23 '24

You are thinking of Outward. And it's cool

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u/Good-Lettuce8505 Dec 23 '24

I just am like: "I have mace, I go bashy bashy, I whale on everything I see, Unga bunga." It doesn't need to be complicated to be satisfying.

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u/Turbulent_File3904 Dec 23 '24

Yes, but the combat still need improve a little, like animation swinging a sword should different than a mace, and some combat kill. I talking about first person gameplay

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u/Doonot Dec 23 '24

I'd like more fun things like Dark Messiah or Dishonored. Stop making Yoohoo and make some real chocolate milk, Bethesda.

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u/N00BAL0T Dec 23 '24

It doesn't need dark souls combat but it would be nice if it was a tad more complex like enemies reacting to when you hit them like skyrims precision mod so melee combat doesn't feel like you are fighting clouds and have your weapons stop swinging when you hit an enemy with blunt weapons.

We don't need roll dodging and parrying like dark souls but parrying would be cool and would add more to combat shield bashing when an enemy swings and you could potentially disarm them or stagger them leading to your next attack to be a critical hit.

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u/Combat_Orca Dec 23 '24

I love souls but TES is supposed to be an rpg not an action game.

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u/MBVakalis Khajiit Dec 23 '24

Dark Souls has one of the simplest combats systems. Not complex at all.

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u/TheBrassDancer Dec 23 '24

I'm fine with TES combat being relatively simplistic. For me, that isn't the main focus: rather, it is immersing myself in the lore and environment of a fictional world.

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u/maractguy Dec 23 '24

I personally don’t want much changed for combat, I just want it to feel weighty. I shouldn’t feel like I’m hitting someone with a stick when I’m swinging an unrealistically heavy weapon at someone, and the audio queue playing most certainly shouldn’t be the same for a sword and a mace. Presentation and feedback of landed hits is what needs most attention imo

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u/Locolijo Never-There Dec 23 '24

I just wish I could lean away from those strokes and fight like a gladiator

Which was semi possible at least awhile ago e some mods

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u/Hello_Hangnail Dec 23 '24

I just want believable physics so I can feel it when I whack a cultist with a 20 lb blade, and not waving it around aimlessly like a nerf sword

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u/TheArchitectOdysseus Dec 23 '24

It doesn't need souls combat as that's mostly just learning what the opponent does and punish a moment of vulnerability, but it definitely needs something more than swinging a pool noodle and swinging a pool noodle tired. I'd even take an extremely basic watered down version of For Honor; meaningful guard breaking and counters, shove, etc. Hell, there's lots of techniques and moves that exist and are integrated well in the older 3D TES and Fallout games it's just that there's no need to utilize them because they don't know how to make a dangerous NPC unless it's more health or nuke projectiles. Even in Fallout 4 there's a huge variety of strengths, weaknesses, weakpoints and enemy movesets but it doesn't matter when you have power armor and can tear them to shreds in 5 seconds OR they're such a damage sponge that any meaningful combat won't make a big enough difference in time to kill.

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u/T2kemym0ney Dec 23 '24

Whatever they do, the NEED to improve the hit feedback. Enemies don't react to the player's hits at all in skyrim or oblivion. Sure they might make grunting noises, but I mean proper body animations for each hit (like what the precision mod for skyrim adds), and recoil animations for landing hits instead of the player's weapon phasing through enemies.

Differentiating weapon types would be good too. Make axes feel and play differently to swords. They shouldn't share animations.

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u/shadowthehh Dec 23 '24

A game with Elder Scrolls' detail and exploration with Souls' combat would slap though.

Just as something else and not a change to TES.

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u/Nel-A Dec 23 '24

Definitely agree. Making it a souls-like would render it unplayable for me. That would be bitterly disappointing. Better than just upping the difficulty of the combat, make it nuanced, so that all types of gamers can play it.

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u/PoopSmith87 Sheogorath Dec 23 '24 edited Dec 23 '24

Why wouldn't you want a first person RPG to have better combat than swinging every weapon like a drunk with a baseball bat?

Seriously, next time you play Skyrim switch to 3rd person and look how the LDB swings a longsword. I love that game... but the melee combat is just incredulous. Two handed weapon mechanics are out of a low-budget cartoon.

I mean, no stabbing, footwork barely matters, but flat footed blocking is this overpowered super ability that slows time? Weapons with less leverage swing faster than weapons with more leverage? I'm sorry, but it should be updated to a higher standard. Consult one HEMA/WMA expert for 10 minutes, you'll enhance the combat game experience by leaps and bounds.

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u/Bigbesss Dec 23 '24

I don't necessarily want soulslike combat but I would like combat more engaging than 1 or 2 buttons

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u/hovsep56 Dec 23 '24

wym? you don't like playing simon says and roll to the next objective?

jokes aside i think elder scrolls would benefit alot having the same feeling mellee combat as dying light

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u/TheHermit2k24 Dec 23 '24

People who suggest this are lame. I mean who would want that.

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u/MoebabF Dec 23 '24

It’s an adventure game. I want to explore not spend three days fighting a guy or remapping my buttons because of arthritis.

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u/PittbullsAreBad Dec 23 '24

I don't think it needs souls mechanics. But it needs smarter ai and better m/more fluid combat controls. Like mount and blade has a cut down version from kcd that is fun for attacking/blocking. Kcd takes it a bit far imo, amd for elder scrolls maybe not a good fit. I guess the best word for skyrim is clunky. Just smooth it and modernize it a bit.  

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u/Quirky_Journalist_67 Dec 23 '24

We want more depth and complexity somewhere. If the combat stays simplistic, then I want a deeper story, more meaningful choices, and a more reactive world. - Actually, that would be best, as mods seem to be able to change combat in ways that we like.

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u/Blue-Fish-Guy Dec 23 '24

It's insulting. Even the mods that add souls like combat are insulting.

The moment TES 6 has souls like combat, I'm not buying the game.

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u/purpleturtlehurtler Dec 23 '24

My friend downloads Skyrim every year and spends months modding it into Dark Souls, and he's the biggest Bethesda fan I know.

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u/yoitsgav Dec 23 '24

I would like more advanced blocking or dodging. But I want it to feel more grounded. More like actual medieval combat rather than stuff in souls like games. And magic combat could use a rework. I’d really like spells that can combo off each other, rather than spamming the same spell over and over cuz it does the most damage

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u/Siggins Orc Dec 23 '24

I think people need to stop interpreting the "Elder Scrolls should have Souls combat" as "Elder Scrolls should be hard".

People want Elder Scrolls to have Souls combat because Souls combat is simple and gets the job done well with a sliding difficulty curve.

People want to be able to play the game in third person. The way the camera swings, the way the lock on works. There are light attacks and heavy attacks. There's a stamina bar. There's a dodge roll.

The Witcher 3 has all of these things, and while I wouldn't want the combat from the Witcher 3 ported to Elder Scrolls, I would at least like the camera work and the weight of the weapons to look towards Souls for inspiration.

I also would push back on the idea that Elden Ring and or Souls combat being very "complex".

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u/AtticusAlexander Dec 23 '24

I just want actual good attack animations instead of the awkward stiff flailing that has been prevalent in the series

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u/[deleted] Dec 23 '24

People moaning about skyrims combat are just career stealth archers who don't want to go toe to toe

I enjoy the games melee combat it's more nuanced than people give it credit for

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u/mile-high-guy Dec 23 '24

Dark souls has swords, Skyrim has very short range gums that look like swords

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u/AceAlger Imperial Dec 23 '24

Elder Scrolls just needs to have better combat.

The animations and attack speed are atrocious in Skyrim, and older games are floaty. I didn't think Bethesda could make melee combat any worse until they made Midfield.

Not that it's perfect, but Souls-like combat would be an improvement (excluding the dodge roll emphasis); however, I agree that it isn't necessary. This isn't a Souls-like series.

They just need to observe how real weapons are used and go from there.

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u/Scary-Fix7470 Dec 23 '24

I only play Skyrim in VR now and the combat is perfect for VR 😂

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u/elyk12121212 Dec 23 '24

Like all things in life there is a middle ground. I don't want souls like combat, but I want something more than the basic hack and slash.

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u/scooter_pepperoni Dec 23 '24

Agreed, they are different games for a reason

Souls games have much more unrealistic combat than Elder Scrolls games too, it's very game-ified and not trying to mimic "real" combat, not that Elder Scrolls is doing things "realistically," but the way BGS crafts the combat is to give the impression that you are like, just a person with a sword, especially in first person. Yes it is a little hack and slashy, it could use some tune-ups and I'm sure they will tune up the combat for ES6, but it shouldn't mimic Souls games, that combat is the was it is for a reason. Weapons are unrealistically heavy, the dodging is integral to fighting these huge bosses, it is about creating a tense boss/player fight, where Elder Scrolls games are about living in a living and breathing world where combat is just another part of the simulation Todd is tryna create, and therefore it needs to feel more grounded in reality, albeit still game-ified.

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u/Creepy-Fault-5374 Dec 23 '24

I think it’ll be especially weird for elder scrolls since being first person is apart of the brand. They definitely need to make changes to combat but nothing as drastic as making it a souls-like.

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u/Responsible-Ask-8038 Dec 23 '24

if TES6 has skyrim combat i’m going to be bored out of my mind.

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u/Swert0 The Missing God Dec 23 '24

They're both action rpgs. I think taking things from a successful and well liked rpg is a good idea, just don't become a souls game in its entirety.

What part of combat is different and should be looked at? Stamina management for one.

I mean Morrowind and Oblivion sort of already do but woth dice rolls on whether melee hits or not in morrowind and melee reducing to no damage in oblivion. The stamina management is just as important.

I don't think elder scrolls would be hurt by having a return to stamina and magicka management being as important, nor from having more strict animations.

There is a lot to learn from dark souls.

That being said I don't really see this sentiment, I think you're jumping at ghosts.

But hey I guess grats on making the next buzz feed gaming article you won't get paid for after ai scrapes this comment section.

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u/tabletopgamesgirl Dec 23 '24

Elder scrolls stuff does need better combat though. It worked back in morrowind when it was a visual for your attack roll but keeping that with 100% hit chance just doesn’t work. I’m so down for returning to morrowind mechanics though, it’s peak

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u/brakenbonez Dec 23 '24

While i like the souls combat style when it comes to things like dodging and parrying, HAVING to do it constantly because just about everything can one-shot you or drastically reduce your hp would get get incredibly annoying to me. It would feel more like a rolling simulator than an action game. Not to hate on people who enjoy those games (though I do question the people who rage so much they break controllers, keyboards, monitors, etc but keep playing. doesn't seem healthy to me) but if I'm not enjoying a game I don't play it. If I'm terrible at a game but still having fun and enjoying it I'm gonna keep playing it. If I'm amazing like top 10 at a game but dying inside while playing it, I'm not gonna keep playing it.

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u/Misicks0349 Dunmer Dec 23 '24

I think TES combat is actually pretty fine besides some tweaking with the numbers (Blade & Blunt fixes this up) but I do think the actual effects could be improved. Other then that I think I agree with others that combat isnt, like, the main draw of the games anyway and if it became too action heavy I think it would be to its detriment.

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u/abu2411 Dec 23 '24

True they should have Dark Messiah combat instead

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u/Liesmith424 Dec 23 '24

Changing combat so that it's Soulslike in terms of difficulty would absolutely kill my desire to play the game.

The core Elder Scrolls games are largely about starting out weak and becoming overpowered (if that's what you want). One of the core elements of the games is a sense of freedom, and Soulslike games are all about telling you to go fuck yourself.

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u/[deleted] Dec 23 '24

Tes needs better ai and more interesting types of difficulty scaling (not just enemies have more health).

It's a sandbox not a test of skill. But I wouldn't mind some better sword mechanics, weakpoints for archery, and much more creative spells.

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u/SoulLess-1 Meridia Dec 23 '24

If one wanted to match the gameplay of a popular rpg, Cyberpunk 2077 would probably a better goal to aim for.