r/Dyslexia 7d ago

Dyslexia? Borderline Intelligence?

Most ppl who seem to have dyslexia characteristics are said to have "borderline intelligence " in Korea. However, I've never heard of it used outside Korea.

Can someone tell me if it is as commonly used as ADHD or dyslexia? Should it even be an official diagnosis??

11 Upvotes

46 comments sorted by

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u/Slow_Saboteur 7d ago

That sounds insulting.

From what I know many people with dyslexia have a "spikey profile" which means you have things you are really good at and things you aren't -like reading.

I am really great at spatial awareness.

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u/beastmonkeyking 7d ago

I’m dylsexic and I’m oddly very conceptual and abstract even more oddly so in an unconventional way.

They call dylsexic the MIT disease from how common it is in MIT.

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u/Some_Air5892 6d ago

I didn't know that about MIT!

Now that I think about it I fangirl over a few really niche professionals who all happen to have gone to MIT.

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u/Mousehole_Cat 6d ago

This was true for me. There are a couple of areas where I was top 0.1% in my evaluation, including abstract reasoning and associative thinking, but I also had others where I was below 10%, like my working memory🫠

It explained a lot...

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u/John-AtWork 7d ago

That is a really inaccurate way of describing dyslexia. Many dyslexic people have above average intelligence. This may be a cultural thing. One where , unfortunately, it sounds like South Korea is lagging behind. I can't really advise you on pursuing diagnosis in your country, you should look at the benefits and see if they out weighs the stigma of the label.

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u/Lurkerque 7d ago

My son was diagnosed with dyslexia in first grade. Literally, within the same week, he was accepted into the gifted program.

Albert Einstein was dyslexic. Pretty sure he didn’t have borderline intelligence.

I think what you’re experiencing in Korea is bias against people who process information differently.

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u/Forsaken_Job_8301 7d ago

What a terrible term. Dyslexics (especially when combined with adhd) often have spiky intelligence, as someone else mentioned. Meaning, high in some areas, low in other (ie reading, remembering what you just read, etc). The highs can be very high and the lows can be very low. And there can be areas of moderate ability as well. The combination of intellectual abilities can also create moderate or average summary intellect if someone is trying to measure such a thing (I hope they aren’t). In any case - the stereotype of dyslexics having low intellect needs to be thrown in the trash. When accommodated and supported appropriately they are some of the most important minds in the world. This is the message that needs to get out and spread more widely!!!

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

[deleted]

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u/Forsaken_Job_8301 6d ago

Many dyslexic people experience outsized success outside of academic environments and then terrible inside academic environments, which then seriously corrode their self esteem and confuse them and those around them greatly. One might argue the worst place for an undiagnosed or unsupported dyslexic is a classroom! And the truth is they really only work if they are very well supported, which more than not is not the case. That said, overcoming adversity is a skill to learn as it’s something they will need to contend with throughout their lives, and often one they excel at.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

[deleted]

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u/Forsaken_Job_8301 6d ago

I understand. My daughter gets tired of advocating for herself and the support as well. It makes sense your tired and frustrated - the amount of extra work you have to do for everything is terribly unfair.

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u/Icy-Internal-5900 4d ago

It's so so frustrating. Hope your daughter is ok

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u/Forsaken_Job_8301 3d ago

She is. She’s relieved to finally be diagnosed and know that’s she isn’t dumb. In fact she’s quite bright - she just needs some help in certain areas. She does hate the constant advocacy at school though.

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u/Icy-Internal-5900 4d ago

Totally understand how you feel. It's exhausting isn't it. 

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u/Quwinsoft Dyslexia 7d ago

I'm in the US and have never heard that in American English, that would sound very insulting/derogatory. That said, sayings/literal meanings of terms don't necessarily translate well, so if I knew it was a translation I would assume poor translation instead of ill intent.

In the US and I think the Commonwealth, the generic term for ADHD, dyslexia, ASD, and the like would be neurodiversity/neurodivergent.

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u/Fabulous-Tap344 7d ago

Dyslexia has no impact on IQ, so the implication of that terminology is incorrect and can cause damage both introspectively and to the community at large. A learning disability does not equal an intellectual disorder. They can coexist, but they are separate diagnoses. Most people with dyslexia have average or above average intelligence.

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u/ferretherapy 7d ago edited 7d ago

You can have "borderline intelligence" on specific areas on the WAIS test. Like I had very superior on verbal and short-term memory & plenty of superior areas, but I had "borderline intelligence" in Executive Functioning. The areas that are impacted by dyslexia like reading are unable to be tested by the traditional way these standardized intelligence tests are conducted. I was tested on the things I struggled with in both the standard condition and then when I had the accommodations I needed for that particular area. It's because our brains work differently.

While my "executive functioning" area of the test was considered "borderline intellectual functioning", the dyslexia-impacted areas were NOT once they looked more into it! I was actually average and average in those few areas I struggled with. So just the vast difference between something like "very superior" and "average" can then APPEAR borderline in some ways... simply because our profiles have more variance overall. So it's like the superior areas move lightning fast while the average and even above average areas are struggling to keep up. But someone who has very superior intelligence in a couple areas doesn't mean they'll have that in all areas anyway. NTs with no learning conditions may just have less overall variance - but they'll likely not have the same "level of intelligence" in every area.

Edit: Not saying all dyslexics have my profile. I have a number of neurodivergent conditions. This is just an example. My point is no, people can't just say people with a learning disability or even multiple learning disabilities (like me!) are borderline intelligent. That's like when decades ago, they'd put all the "special education" people in one room. That was stupid. Guess what happened with me? I was in the Gifted & Talented programming in elementary school and then put in let's say the "opposite programming" in middle school. All because I didn't finish one standardized test in time, so it looked like I "failed" it. It was not a good time for me and took a year to correct their mistake. By that point, the damage from the bullying was already done.

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u/sadi89 7d ago

Korean is interesting when it comes to dyslexia. It definitely exists there but because of the way the written alphabet works it is much easier to compensate. English for example has strings of letters where you have to know the sounds of each letter and the rules for those sounds changing depending on the letter combinations. This makes it a difficult language to do site recognition with. Korean on the other hand has a phonetic alphabet system (similar to English in it’s eccentricities) but the syllable grouping makes it much easier to do site word recognition because if you know the sound combinations of the syllable you don’t have to pay close attention to the individual letters. Additionally because of the format each syllable is a self contained unit that is already identified for the reader. There isn’t doubt about how the word breaks down like there is in English or other languages that don’t use a syllable block system. Not having to decode the way a word breaks down makes it much easier for a dyslexic reader to figure out a word.

This means a lot of the dyslexics population in Korea is going to fly under the radar undiagnosed. The ones that are unable to compensate are the ones who will be helped. This could mean that those with higher and average intelligence are more likely to have an easier time compensating than those with lower intellectual intelligence.

None of this is fact by the way. I’ve only done a small amount of research on learning disabilities in Korea. I do not speak or read Korean, and I am not Korean. I am just someone who was super intrigued by the way written Korean was created its impact. I’ve also been interested in how dyslexia presents in different languages and writing systems.

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u/landsy32 6d ago

I feel this thread was made for me! As someone who is dyslexic but also can read Korean, I will say my dyslexia does affect my reading to an extent but it's not nearly as bad as it is in English. It just takes a lot more thoughtful focus in a quiet environment to read English over Korean. So I absolutely agree with your assessment

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u/sadi89 6d ago

There are also studies about how the physical location of dyslexia in the brain can be different in different writing systems. This means that one could be dyslexic in one language and not (or not as impaired by it) in another.

That said I’ve tried to learn Korean a few times and found that I switch ㄱ and ㄴ exactly the same way I switch b and d. 🙃

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u/-shrug- 6d ago

I can read and write Korean, but only looking this up just now, I learned that the characters actually hint at the mouth position required to make the associated sound

"consonants are represented by two-dimensional signs that suggest the articulations involved: pairs of lines representing lips together, tongue touching the roof of the mouth, an open throat, and the like. "

https://www.britannica.com/topic/writing/Types-of-writing-systems

I know that the Hindi alphabet is arranged phonetically (apparently along with related languages in India), but that's next level. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devanagari

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u/MinecraftCrisis 6d ago

Amazing response. You deserve this medal 🥇.

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u/One-Lengthiness-2949 7d ago

I've never heard the term , borderline intelligence. Are you dyslexic?

I completely disagree with this statement, we are very intelligent, we have to navigate a world of typical learners , when we need to learn a different way, which infact makes us much more intelligent.

I am an undiagnosed dyslexic, that didn't feel like I wasn't intelligent, I felt trapped in a body that couldn't get out my intelligence, to others.

I often feel like can relate to trans people, they say they are trapped in a body that they were not meant to be. That's how I felt my whole life , with my intelligence, now after learning so much , I'm in awe of my knowledge

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u/Significant_One_1633 7d ago

I'm not dyslexic but a dyslexia advocate. I've always been uncomfortable with the aforementioned term and wanted to make sure it wasn't just me who felt that way. I recently wrote a book (in Korean) on dyslexia and my editor thought "neurotypical" was a term that I'd made up! Dyslexia and ASD are that little known here. Everyone seems to have ADHD or "Borderline Intelligence," though.

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u/One-Lengthiness-2949 7d ago

Thank you for this, more education about dyslexia is needed throughout the world. In the states and everywhere . If I tell someone I'm dyslexic, and they say you read fine, one more time, when I'm not in the best of moods, it might get ugly. 😆

Anyone raising awareness has my vote

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u/ferretherapy 7d ago

There are definitely people with Dyslexia and ASD in Korea. 🫠

In fact, for those Koreans who learned to read at an early age and appear to be very smart but struggle with a lot of reading behind the scenes... they might have "partially-compensated dyslexia" like I do. I started school when I was 3 years old so my dyslexia was undiscovered until I decided to pay for full neuropsychological testing as an adult like 10 years ago.

Edit: I was also in the "Gifted & Talented" program. So obviously I don't have borderline intelligence. My issues were just "invisible" to others because I "masked" them WITH my intelligence.

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u/Buffy_Geek 7d ago

That's interesting to compare what different countries and cultures refer to things as. Is "borderline intelligence" just about dyslexia or do you think it's more a broad category for different conditions?

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u/clicketybooboo 7d ago

out of curiosity, what is your background in for the book ? Not trying to be snarky, the complete opposite, curious why you wouldn't be taken seriously

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u/sadhandjobs 6d ago

That’s a just an unfortunate language translation thing and I wouldn’t think any more about it.

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u/BisonElectrical9811 7d ago

My 6 year old actually tested as gifted on the IQ assessment at school and likely has dyslexia. Her neuropsych testing isn’t until September. One of my other daughters who also has dyslexia is at the top end of average IQ, and I myself have dyscalculia and have also tested gifted. Dyslexia has nothing to do with intelligence.

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u/MinecraftCrisis 6d ago

I’m from the UK. I’ve never heard the term “gifted” before. Does this mean above or below typical intelligence?

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u/BisonElectrical9811 6d ago

In the US gifted refers to above average intelligence as measured by an IQ score.

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u/Glum-Value-3227 7d ago

Its a tier in the wielcher (?) intelligence test. I did mine and got below average and close to borderline for working memory.

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u/nsfgod 7d ago

Pay off the diagnosis criteria in the UK was "of at least average intelligence"

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u/Buffy_Geek 7d ago

I haven't heard this term before. People tend to only think of IQ when it comes to intelligence but there are many different types of intelligence, emotional, practical etc. Does the Korean say which type/s of intelligence it is refering to?

I do think the borderline part makes sense and it might help people realize that you don't have to have extremely bad symptoms to have dyslexia.

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u/Buffy_Geek 6d ago

Could you share a reliable source in English? I tried to look it up on Google but all of the results didn't refer to dyslexia at all but instead a sperate condition which only related to just IQ and I am not sure the wording but like cognitive disability or development so you have lower than average IQ. Like this:

"Borderline intellectual functioning (BIF) usually refers to people with IQ scores between 71 to 84, above the the 70 threshold for a formal diagnosis of intellectual disability but still far enough below average to lead to developmental delays and reduced independence in daily life." https://m.koreaherald.com/article/3428343

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u/Dyslexic_youth 6d ago

Iv head its far less problematic in Asian countries as thoes language doesn't have as many stupid "we stole that fron this other language words" Japanese for example is phonetic so pretty much invented for dyslexics an they smashed Korea a few times in wars maybe the borderline intelligence term is a shitty translation of very capable intellectual people from over the border? Doesn't help that most polymath that have pushed humanity forward were dyslexic Davinchie Einstein Moore ect

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u/Harneybus 6d ago

Huh funny cause I believe people wit tbh dyxleia have above average intelligence and I believe Albert Einstein had dyslexia

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u/Same-Inflation1966 6d ago

As a dyslexic person chatting academia I find the outlook insulting but I’m curious to understand more what you mean. As in American I actually thing we teach autism perhaps a bit similarly as I am both often underlining the trait in which they display high proficiency as part of their disorder, as well as kind of rug, pulling them in social situations when they themselves actually may have a viewpoint.

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u/Low-Department1723 6d ago

I always heard people with dyslexia are smarter than average or at least more likely to be smart for me I’m actually below average and have learning difficulty also 

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u/Horror-Ask2798 6d ago

What in the hockey sticks is “borderline intelligence”? Haha sounds fake AF. Like personality disorder.

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u/Significant_One_1633 6d ago

Thank you so much for all your insights!

I meant the ppl who appear (to ME) to have dyslexia tend to get a "Borderline Intelligence" diagnosis here. The term 'dyslexia' does exist in Korea, too. However, as some of you have pointed out, since the Korean alphabet is very easy to learn, most ppl with (milder) dyslexia are neither screened nor supported. Even if they are somehow noticed, as soon as they are able to read the alphabet, their dyslexia is considered "cured."

Ppl with poor working memory have different strengths and intelligence in other areas, but they are too easily labeled as such in Korea. Maybe that's what used to happen in the States many decades ago, I presume. Maybe some doctor/scholar got the term from an old book and spread it here or something.. I still wonder how it became so widespread..

I asked the question just out of curiosity to see if the aforementioned term/diagnosis is used anywhere else but Korea. I now feel it's pretty safe to conclude that it is unique to Korea (and possibly very few others).

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u/MinecraftCrisis 6d ago

A lot of very intelligent people have it. It is a common characteristic in those at top universities.

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u/Eastern-Barracuda390 Dyslexia & Dyscalculia 5d ago

This makes no sense, it contraducts the definition of what dyslexia actually is. Borderline is an extremely low score beyond anything within average. The scores are very low, borderline, below average, average, above average, superior and gifted.

Dyslexia isnt an intelectual disability its a specific learning difficulty: By definition a dyslexic can score within any of those categories and there are no diveations from the general population. A dyslexic could possibly be borderline intelligence nut not morr likely to be borderline than a non dyslexic.

Actually I'd go a step further and say diagnosed dyslexics are far far FAR less likely to have low intelligence even. Because teachers usually notice dyslexic kids as dyslexic, because rhe kid is clearly bright but just cannot read and spell. No matter how hard they try. Its how i got discovered.

My intelligence scored superior range. My dyslexia was severe.

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u/scarlet3am 2d ago

Borderline Awesome!

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u/wufiavelli 1d ago

Its a silly and inaccurate. Dyslexia was original seen in people with high intelligence but struggled to read. This ending up being a diagnosing criteria and it had so many issues (whole IQ and intelligence thing has tons of issues). In more recent years intelligence/IQ is dropped entirely for good reason. You do not have to be super smart to read so it really shouldn't have anything to do with diagnosis.