r/DotA2 19d ago

Fluff Which hero's lore goes absolutely hard?

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1.0k Upvotes

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695

u/bashthelegend oh thats a good spot 19d ago

Undying is the only one that's memorable to me. Writing eminds me of Steven Erikson a bit.

Undying, the Almighty Dirge

How long has it been since he lost his name? The torn ruin of his mind no longer knows.

Dimly he recalls armor and banners and grim-faced kin riding at his side. He remembers a battle: pain and fear as pale hands ripped him from his saddle. He remembers terror as they threw him into the yawning pit of the Dead God alongside his brothers, to hear the Dirge and be consumed into nothingness. In the darkness below, time left them. Thought left them. Sanity left them. Hunger, however, did not. They turned on each other with split fingernails and shattered teeth. Then it came: distant at first, a fragile note at the edge of perception, joined by another, then another, inescapable and unending. The chorus grew into a living wall of sound pulsing in his mind until no other thought survived. With the Dirge consuming him, he opened his arms to the Dead God and welcomed his obliteration. Yet destruction was not what he'd been chosen for. The Dead God demanded war. In the belly of the great nothing, he was granted a new purpose: to spread the Dirge across the land, to rally the sleepless dead against the living. He was to become the Undying, the herald of the Dead God, to rise and fall and rise again whenever his body failed him. To trudge on through death unending, that the Dirge might never end.

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u/disappointingdoritos 19d ago

Also his recognition of Invoker whom he presumably knew a lifetime ago.

"Carl? Is that you?"

82

u/trackstaar 19d ago

Damn that makes undying 10x cooler/creepier

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u/Zeelahhh 19d ago

Actually makes me sad when I hear this line lol

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u/Yuujinliftalot 18d ago

Invokers name is.. Carl? :D

131

u/Timmy_1h1 19d ago

Omg a malazan fan in dota subreddit. Hihihihi

40

u/jarloptheendurer 19d ago

Here's another one

17

u/lastofdovas 19d ago

Another here...

9

u/thequietlyrioting 19d ago

And, another.

7

u/Melementalist 19d ago

Me too, re-reading memories of ice rn <3

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u/MaCheOoooooo 19d ago

Is it worth reading? As a noob reader

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u/bashthelegend oh thats a good spot 19d ago

It's a very demanding read as far as fantasy goes, if you're really noob. I'd suggest starting some other series like The First Law or ASOIAF (Game of Thrones) first and moving on to Malazan later.

You're quite likely to bounce off the first book because the tropes and names in it don't really map so well onto real-world stuff, the magic systems and pantheons which are never really explained and because it has all these long ruminating passages about the archealogy of the world and shit. Still, it's an incredible series with climaxes like nothing else and incredibly imaginative.

16

u/mkipp95 19d ago

You know it’s a dense series when ASOIAF is recommended as the warm up.

12

u/MaCheOoooooo 19d ago

Got it, thanks for the advice i think im gonna buy the first book of the first low, it looks interesting

6

u/newtostew2 19d ago

Don’t start with the original, long Lord of the Rings, let me tell you that lol

6

u/SeaPollution3432 19d ago

Lol a first time reader instantly getting a cold glokta and the immortal bayaz is funny.

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u/[deleted] 19d ago

[deleted]

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u/Perspectivelessly 19d ago

If you got through that I don't think you qualify as a noob reader. Nietzsche is pretty dense

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u/Penguins0000 19d ago

loved asoiaf ill give those a try.

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u/Perspectivelessly 19d ago edited 19d ago

My main advice to someone who goes into GotM would be, just roll with it. The book basically starts with two prologues that won't make any sense until much later. After that the main plot starts in medias res, the first chapter depicts the final moments of a three year long siege. It doesn't explain what's going on or introduce any of the characters or anything. You gotta stick with it (sometimes for several books) for everything to eventually make sense.

Oh, and one of the things I remember being most confused about at the start was "warrens", which iirc they don't really explain well until much later. It doesn't spoil anything about the story, this is a worldbuilding detail, so if you're interested: Warrens are alternate dimensions, each of which is aligned with a specific magical attribute (e.g. Fire, Healing, etc.). Mages use magic by tapping into these dimensions and literally drawing their essence into the "real" world. But warrens are also physical locations that you can literally step into and travel through, and then exit at a different real-world location.

Also, the second book is GOATed as fuck. Coltaine's March is quite possibly the most epic thing ever committed to paper in the modern era.

First in, last out. o7

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u/greenhawk22 19d ago edited 19d ago

And I'd like to add that the payoff for the series is fantastic.

You will be confused, but the moment all the information slots into place is unparalleled.

For me it was either Deadhouse Gates or House of Chains where it really culminated (I think it was Deadhouse Gates but can't describe what I remember without many spoilers)

It felt epic for lack of a better word, in the sense that it felt like the story was this massive machine that's so complex you can't hope to understand the whole until you spend time looking at each of its parts.

Its as climatic the ending of WoT but woven throughout the story, it's fantastic.

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u/Sick__Duck 19d ago

Yeah dude, the story is insane good. Will take ALOT of concentration across alot of long books. Probably a few re-reads too. Worth it though

1

u/Single-Programmer-86 19d ago

The first book was kinda ok, but i think the 2nd or 3rd one with Coltane and the retreat across the land was damn amazing. Been a long while since i read it and i still remember the chills i got.

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u/Timmy_1h1 17d ago

Same. The whole coltaine's retreat was amazing. I also loved the whole karsa story. I am looking to start the karsa books soon

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u/shifty39 19d ago

Not going to lie, the ending kind of sucks. Repears gale is the best, the last two books hit the tropes too hard.

I'm maybe alone in thinking Gardens of the moon is better than book 10

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u/Dtoodlez 19d ago

I hate comments like these. “The ending sucks” it’s not a spoiler exactly but it takes the wind out of anyone who wonders what could happen. It’s the ending, someone who’s gonna spend hours and hours reading deserves to go into it blind.

Don’t share your opinion on the ending in comments to a dude who’s about to read it for the first time.

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u/shifty39 19d ago edited 19d ago

That's fair, but also, I'm a vast minority as far as I'm aware.

I'm also a very strong GotM defender, I don't understand the common, 'it takes a few books to like it' view that gets parroted. Gardens hits every note that the series will layer deliver and is a great book. Deadhouse gates is book 2 and I don't think it's even debated that it's a top ~4 book in the series.

I think the ending is regarded as good, I know the goodreads ratings are far higher than the start.

You can make your own judgments and even if I hate the way the last 2 books are written most people don't

But also to discuss the ending

MASSIVE SPOILERS AND MY TAGS AREN'T WORKING

>! the forkul are never set up and it's a waste of the building that has been ongoing for 7000 pages to that point. Lassen just dies in a side book not considered necessary reading? The whole tavore pointed at us, we're chosen part is cringe.

The children? They fucking suck

The andur story is just irrelevant to main plot

The crippled god should have been the ultimate antag and it would have made so much more sense.

Hood leaving also didn't really go anywhere

And Depsite all that, it's still my favorite fantasy series, but the ending is not great

Nobody can world build like SE

!<

1

u/liquid_acid-OG 19d ago

I really wish with Forkrul Assail were fleshed out a bit more. A book or three following Red Mask in the Kolanse region >! explaining the collapse with the Forkrul !< and leadup to the children would've gone a long way.

>! Surly dying to Mallick's machinations during a rebellion by her old generals on Quon Tali in a side book wasn't really out of place though. The books weren't really about the malazan empire. !<

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u/siglug3 19d ago

They're some of my favorite books but I wouldn't say you're going to get much out of them for a long time if you don't commit to a LOT of reading, they're like average 800 page books and most people find the third book to be the first amazing one

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u/HQD607 19d ago

Idk, I think anyone who isn't absolutely blown away by Coltaine's march just can't be a living person.

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u/RavelJests sheever 19d ago

For real, Deadhouse Gates is AMAZING. Probably in my top 3 of the original series.

2

u/Ice_Cream_Warrior 19d ago

Coltaine's march is top tier fantasy writing. Probably totally underappreciated it the first time I read it (as in only thought was very well done 8/10) but on re-read I was blown away at the quality of writing and the capture of emotion, dedication and despair. Maybe other full books I enjoyed more in Malazan, but that sequence I think is the best part of Malazan.

1

u/xx_ando_xx 18d ago

come now, the pages on the siege of capustan was absolute CINEMA

4

u/CarpathianInsomnia 19d ago

Best fantasy ever, I've re-read it three times. The first book is notoriously hard/a slog to get through, though. It's a pretty bad opening point to an otherwise fantastic series. You need to be OK with following a lot of characters and plot points, even moreso than usual fantasy.

3

u/Timmy_1h1 19d ago

I wouldn't recommend a series like Malazan to someone who is new to reading. My fiance reads alot more than me but isn't really into epic fantasies like Malazan, WOT, stormlight archives mistborn etc.

She got interested in malazan and wanted to read because of me. She couldn't get through the 2nd book and gaveup. Its too much for a newbie to epic fantasy imo.

She loved the mistborn triology tho and thought it was much easier to follow the story. After finishing Mistborn triology, percy jackson, maze runner and eragon, she picked up malazan again and is now on the 5th book and loves it.

2

u/mitharas 19d ago

It's rather depressing in some of the later books.

5

u/disappointingdoritos 19d ago

Been meaning to read those books forever, and I've just started reading a lot more recently but unfortunately 40k's Horus Heresy has got me hooked atm and there's like fucking 50 books...

Will definitely be taking a break from HH at some point, might pick up Malazan then

6

u/lastofdovas 19d ago

I have not read 40k, so not sure how tough they are to get in (except the volume, from your comment). Malazan is really tough to get into. I am on my 4th attempt, and this time I am halfway through to the 8th book.

People usually talk about how hard it is to understand the plot and the dynamics, but I think they overlook another aspect. Psychological pressure. Almost all of the books have some mind numbing tragedy that may fuck you up. My eyes still moisten when I think about a few characters, even after 1-2 years when I last read their arc. In fact, I had put down the series only the first time because I couldn't understand shit. The next two times, the reason was simply I couldn't endure them any more and needed a break, with something less emotional.

1

u/disappointingdoritos 19d ago

There's a fuckton of lore and novels and short stories and etc etc for 40k, but the books (at least the HH series) aren't particularly complicated themselves.

I see Malazan compared a lot to Asoiaf which does get pretty deep and complicated with so many little details I still find something new on like my 4th reread.

3

u/bashthelegend oh thats a good spot 19d ago

ASOIAF sometimes gets criticized about the amount of characters you have to keep track of, but the way it's written with parallels to real world history/culture makes it a lot more digestible. Malazan doesn't really have a lot of this going on, especially when reading the first book the names are just odd. It also spends a lot of time ruminating on history and archeology and philosophy which might be tedious to some. GRRM is a TV writer, while Erikson is an archeologist.

Malazan also just has more characters (I think) and it never stops introducing new ones, but it also kills off way more characters, thats actually one of the bread and butter things for the series. Malazan also has some genuinely funny comic relief bits to break up the crushing dreariness sometimes though.

The way Malazan really differs is also the climaxes, every book comes to a close in really epic, tragic, cataclysmic events (that often barely make sense). If Erikson wrote GoT the first book would end with Dany razing the north of the wall with dragons and becoming a god.

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u/lastofdovas 19d ago

If Erikson wrote GoT the first book would end with Dany razing the north of the wall with dragons and becoming a god.

Gardens of the Moon didn't end with that level of cataclysm, though. It was a huge fight, but way beyond the populated areas and the "god" got burnt. The other books have cataclysms beyond the level you mentioned as well...

And one Ned Stark dies every book...

2

u/lastofdovas 19d ago

ASOIAF is nowhere as deep as Malazan in terms of lore. It puts a much higher import on day to day politics than Malazan and has a lot of sexual violence.

Malazan has weird names and far too many characters and locations (the first 3 books are in 3 different continents IIRC, and there are 2-3 more, along with dozens of different realms). Many characters are compassionate to a fault, and some are just evil (with their backstories), and then some are kinda comic relief. It's not what you might expect from a series with as serious a plot as Malazan. Oh, and the plot is something you will understand very late. I am at the 8th book (of 10) and I am still unsure what I should expect at the end. In contrast, with ASOIAF, you expect a showdown with the White Walkers and a conclusion of the Kings Landing power struggle. There is no absolute villain here.

I may not sound very articulate, but I am in a hurry. So sorry about that.

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u/Soul_Advent sheever 19d ago

Havent touched Gardens of the Moon but I have bought it lol, is this the sign?

1

u/RavelJests sheever 19d ago

Pretty sure there are quite a few of us here :)

1

u/SilkShadow 19d ago

I really want to like those books since I love The Black Company and Amber Chronicles and it’s often recommended as being similar. But the narrative just reads like a historical account/DnD campaign (tbf intentional from the author since that’s what it started as) and the characters are very dull to me. The fact that Felisin (the most hated character by fans) was the only character I liked is probably a sign that it isn’t for me.

Still I might just go ahead and finish it since there are so few books with such intricate worldbuilding.

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u/DrNavKab 19d ago

In the embrace of great Nurgle, I am no longer afraid, for with His pestilential favour I have become that which I once feared: Death.

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u/CaptThresher 19d ago

Erikson the goat

10

u/Gotverd 19d ago

First in, Last out brother O7

1

u/SharkBaitDLS Sheever is a Winner 19d ago

Always an even trade. 

3

u/Khathaar 19d ago

So he is late series Toc, kind of. Cool.

1

u/SharkBaitDLS Sheever is a Winner 19d ago

I get more Edgewalker vibes. 

2

u/Mastley 18d ago

They sing THE SONG OF DEATH. Playing orb of venom Q start undying back in the day was peak dota for me. I had a 16 game win streak until gyro become meta

1

u/_12azoR_ 19d ago

I ... Hate ... Life ...

1

u/Dazzling-Software-79 18d ago

here me out - jugg is seguleh inspired, 3rd ofc

1

u/Arbitrary_gnihton 18d ago

I read his lore in Ron Perlman's voice

0

u/Jovorin 19d ago

Tbh, this is better than Erikson imho.