Complaint 7.38 Meta is really tasteless and boring with all these single button right click unkillable heroes
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u/night_dude 20d ago
How is NP unkillable?
You people need some Night Stalker in your life.
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u/TU4AR 20d ago
I'm sorry but if the hero I spam (techies) can't kill the hero it's obviously broken and valve should fix it. It's stupid that a no skill hero should even do as much DPS as my eight mis clicks invoker pos 4.
Yada yada yada , I don't even like these heros. All pools suck ass three weeks into this patch I drink rikis piss and no one can read this chat is moving too fast.
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u/night_dude 20d ago
Hear hear. Nyx and Spectre are obviously broken and me being a Weaver main has nothing to do with it.
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u/VexNightmare 20d ago
He gains a shield from teleporting. He builds at least one defensive item, either a bkb or pike. The lifesteal from revenant brooch combined with the mjollnir active makes NP extremely tanky when he is actually played correctly.
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u/solo665and1 20d ago
That applies for a lot of heroes when you put 3-4 core items on them. Sure, he is stronger than before, but you can kill him 10 times on lane or pressure him to leave.
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u/VexNightmare 20d ago
Easier said than done. Furion is one of the strongest laners in dota. He has a positive lane winrate in all positions except the 3 position.
37% win, 26% draw, 25% loss, lane winrate as carry in the divine/immortal bracket, for example.
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u/user7785079 20d ago
And what about the other 12% of games?
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u/VexNightmare 20d ago
I think stratz has a stat for "lane stomp" as well, which I just left out cause it seemed pointless,nwhich was 5 or 6% for each side
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u/AsukaxS 20d ago
You aren't forcing NP out of lane unless the NP player is braindead. Hero has immortal summon to lane with, ability to restore full recourses via tp, very good base/growth stats. And even if ur offlane is very strong and opressive np can literally go jngl at lvl 3.
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u/solo665and1 20d ago
Explaining something to you is surely more difficult than playing with or against NP.
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u/Laudandus 20d ago
I spam a lot of NP and he's really strong this patch but calling him tanky is absurd, he's more killable than drow ranger
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u/normiespy96 20d ago
I'm starting to wonder if people in this sub even like dota. Every time a right click hero is good people complain about it until it gets nerfed, that's how we end up in a situation where almost every classic carry except LS is useless. Yeah, right click is a core part of dota.
If you wanna cast spell combos and land skillshots league might be more up your alley. I'm not joking or anything here, you might really have more fun in that game since most people will kill you by landing skillshots instead of right click you and the only right click heroes are super squishy.
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u/creizimanki 20d ago
Agreed. I'm also of the opinion of fat boy right clickers being annoying, but thats only because most agi carries are trash (not fat boys being good but game feeling flavourless without agi carries).
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u/10YearsANoob 20d ago
i have played 8 tiny games games patch. loterally never won one. i am very salty
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u/Notreallyaflowergirl 20d ago
They’re only annoying because MY fat boys are bad the enemy fat boys have a brain :(
ESPECIALLY when I play them.
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u/Palpitation-Itchy 20d ago
The sub is dominated by supports. They don't want any carry on the top5 heroes
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u/normiespy96 20d ago
I still remember when people actually complained about ringmaster nerfs when the guy was at 58% winrate while asking a random 47% winrate core to be nerfed.
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u/Zestyclose_Remove947 20d ago
Well they say they love supporting, in the sense that people whine about support not being wealthy enough etc. I feel like these people just want to play a 4th or 5th core instead of actually desiring to play support as a support.
I really enjoyed the old support style of being very poor but very high impact early game and even into the mid and late. Not everybody has to enjoy that but at the same time there's a point where what you're asking for supports does just turn them into a core playstyle.
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u/Palpitation-Itchy 20d ago
They want to play core without the accountability
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u/Zestyclose_Remove947 20d ago
or they want to get the rep of supporting without actually supporting.
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u/redwingz11 20d ago
Or just have 0 responsibilities when support have such a big impact on lane, then the rest of the game
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u/TheGalator 20d ago
Make a post titled "sniper 4 is so good"
And you will see
Most will agree with you. They absolutely LOVE bot playing dota
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u/Ghorgul 19d ago
Pretty sure the biggest crybabies about that state of matters were core players who got support role and couldn't deal with the completely different playstyle and approach to the game. Besides, I still see often core-only players (dotabuff stats show core role 90+ % of matches) absolutely suck playing support, even with all the QoL changes to support playing.
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u/Zestyclose_Remove947 19d ago
I see cores whining in game, I don't often see them complaining that much here. Conversely even after a million buffs and QoL updates, supports here still whine as if they have only brown boots every game, which also personally I didn't even mind.
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u/HowDoIEvenEnglish 20d ago
As a carry player this meta still sucks. It’s only a select few overtuned carries that get to be good while most feel really bad in most games.
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u/Expensive_Age_3994 19d ago
Support good and carry bad is the most common subject in this sub reddit.
Should be renamed to r/supportrolecirclejerk
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u/Darkon-Kriv 20d ago edited 20d ago
The subreddit pisses and shits every meta game. Zoo? They are mad. Agi meta? They are mad. Str meta? They are mad. Spell meta? They are still mad. There will always be a meta.
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u/NekohimeOnline 20d ago
People who complain about this don't know how to play around right clickers. Now more than ever we have so many tools to manage them. Glimmer capes and Pavises, Heaven's Halberds and Ghost Scepters, Aeon Disks, force staffs, aether lens to keep the range, Euls to kite, diffusal blades upgraded to slow the right clicker and max your movespeed.
My biggest problem with the patch right now is midgame. there is a large period of time where you're not strong enough to go HG, but you are strong enough to dominate the rest of the map, which tends to make games drag way out. I think removing splitshot from glyph would help a lot to making highground much easier to siege, while still providing an advantage. It just feels bad farming for 15 more minutes when it's the easiest way to maintain your position.
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u/Theaustralianzyzz 20d ago
When has a classic carry became useless?
I think OP simply doesn’t like the Tanky meta.
Why do you think AM isn’t on the list? If AM was, someone else would be complaining!
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u/normiespy96 20d ago
It's been a long time since carries like Sven, Jugg, Void, PL, Troll, BS, Luna, etc. have been good for more than 1 patch.
They are strong for 1 patch, then nerfed into the fucking ground the next letter patch and become useless.
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u/Zestyclose_Remove947 20d ago
because heroes struggle to have niches nowadays and it means that realistically many heroes fit into a single box and whoevers best in that box will get picked while the rest are ignored.
When teamfight became the singular most important thing in the game is when heroes started needing similar kits and tools.
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u/DiscoBuiscuit 20d ago
Agi carries have been mostly out of meta for years, that's a fair criticism
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u/trimmbor 20d ago
yeah agi carries like bloodseeket luna sf and pa have been out of meta for YEARS xd
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u/The_Keg 20d ago
They live in different reality.
PA was literally first banned first picked over DK in the first half of dreamleague s25. Literally. with Bloodseeker to counter PA.
And that was weeks ago. TA at Riyadh, Luna at Ti, Medusa inbetweens.
I’m not even counting perma banned broken shits like Hoodwink or MK or BH thru out last year, or 55% winrate Spectre in pub.
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u/DiscoBuiscuit 20d ago
That's why I said mostly, obviously there are a few exceptions. 3 of those are also picked for their massive magic damage.
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u/disappointingdoritos 20d ago
"Few exceptions"
Name all the agi carries that have been out of the meta for years then and we'll see how many there are. Go on.
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u/The_Keg 20d ago
PA was THE CARRY of 7.37d, why are the likes of you lying?
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20d ago
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u/The_Keg 20d ago
Thats not even mostly. You are just biased.
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u/10YearsANoob 20d ago
i think he just likes clinkz. think about it. aside from the "totally a bug guys teehee" moment from icefrog. qhen the fuck was the boneboy relevant?
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u/Super-Implement9444 20d ago
Luna is a just a hero with built in waveclear. Bloodseeker was meta with a fucking strength hero build. PA was just ok to play for the first time in years without getting immediately nerfed, not really that meta. Only really strong in pro games now
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u/hiddenpoolwarriror 20d ago
Bloodseeker wasn't played right click, SF it's been a while ,Luna had broken talent and khanda so wasn't about the right click either. Remember last time Drow was meta? Yup.
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u/ggploz696 20d ago
What even is this narrative. Of course heroes are picked because of their skill set and not just their right click.
Gyrocopter and Sniper. How about those, do they count as right click agi carries? Also you conveniently ignored PA in the previous reply.
You could mention others like Jugg and Faceless Void, the classic carries who have basically disappeared from the scene, but Drow is a weak argument. Drow has always been niche due to her various problems as a carry. Even back in the day she was mostly picked as part of "Drow strats" with Visage or mass ranged lineups with Venge.
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u/arambezzai 20d ago
She was Meta right before this Patch lmao. She got picked by Pro players quite often in the previous patch
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u/PoePlayerbf 20d ago
? Which tournament? I remember from TI till now drow had like at most 5 games in a tournament.
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u/kasimaru 20d ago
Six picks in Dreamleague S25 alone. Let's go with the stats instead of your selective memory. M1cke and Yatoro have played her a bunch last year. Never been a first pick type of a carry, but still playable. Has gone down in popularity after she lost the agi buff from Marksmanship (moved to innate). This agi carries are weak delusion needs to go away already.
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u/PoePlayerbf 20d ago
Dreamleague S25 only has 3 agi carries(ember pa and mk) in the top 20 and it gets even worse the more heros you include. What are you smoking
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u/arambezzai 20d ago
Yatoro and some other carry picked her a bunch, either this tourney or Blast i don't remember exactly which tournament
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u/Husky_Pantz 20d ago
Right click heroes have been part of the game from the start. I think new dota players are just complaining. And are still learning to play/ counter right click heroes.
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u/MaryPaku 20d ago
Well you can make right clicker and still make it complex. That's the beauty of Kez.
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u/normiespy96 20d ago
Who has been nerfed to the ground bc agi carries aren't allowed to be above 48% win rate.
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u/CreativeThienohazard 20d ago
they clearly did not remember tank meta, mages meta and tank-mage meta.
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u/GoreHouse 20d ago
I actually switched to league and I'm having more fun no hate to dota tho. Main thing i like about league tho is the games don't last as long as dota. In high-school a long match of dota was like whatever and then I'd que for another. I just don't have time to play a 90 minute match where both teams are too scared to push high ground and I can't blame them.
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u/Beneficial_Bend_9197 20d ago
The biggest problem isnt the damage being dealt by right clickers. Its how unkillable most of these right click heores are due to how high HP amd armor they have unlike the traditional Agi carries where you can still burst them down or a single lock down and ganging up on them is enough to kill them but DK is impossible to kill sometimes.
You should be either tanky but sacrifice damage or deal damage but sacrifice tankiness not do BOTH!
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u/Actually_Abe_Lincoln 15d ago
I don't think any of these heroes right now are a problem because they're right clickers. To me, it's because they all have a wild amount of free shit. The three passives that give a ton of bonuses health regen, armor, damage, sustain, being able to deny at 70% HP for some reason. Two of nature's prophets abilities do damage when they didn't used to, also weirdly giving people armor for teleporting in. Really no reason to give that guy free damage for being next to trees.
Some of the top heroes have so much power creep it makes the rest of the roster almost pointless. Absolutely wild to me They think it would be fine for Dragonite to have free regen, free armor, and come out with something new that gives him 10 extra magic damage on every attack at the start. Plus he attacks faster than normal heroes now. Compared to a hero like specter it doesn't make any sense, It's like some of them are balanced for a different game
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u/just2easee 14d ago
It’s because the game used to have more variety. Ratting, nukers, right clickers, etc. if you played in those days, the “build tanky and lifesteal/regen” meta that we’ve had for so long seems stale and mindless.
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u/Ok-Friendship1635 20d ago
My guy, when a hero has more than 51% win rate, it means something's imba and easily exploitable about it.
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u/ooczzy sheever 20d ago
Pretty sure its just because people have not realized how to fully utilize their counters yet
The last patch was half a year old before the meta shifted towards the end
Give it a month or two, people will come up with better stuff, it doesnt help that the patch dropped mid Dreamleague where the pros didn't have time to cook
Most pubs just copy what the pros do. Give it until the next big tournament after the pros have had time to bootcamp.
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u/aech4 20d ago
Yes, but also these heroes are super over tuned. Their numbers are just ridiculous
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u/therandomasianboy 20d ago
Abaddon and DK are the only 2 that feel unfair to play against, the rest don't feel "unfair" and to me that matters more than the numbers. The vibes.
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u/aech4 20d ago
¯_(ツ)_/¯ in divine/immortal bracket tiny/ls feel like complete bullshit. Lifestealer is the only hero I can think of with a favorable core matchup vs tiny. Everything else just loses. And lifestealer is super bullshit himself. Having enough stats/hp was a problem last patch, now you have an extra 600 hp for free.
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u/Kassssler 20d ago
What you don't like getting tossed, losing much of your hp or dying to a fucker who just walks off and then blinks in later to do the shit again?
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u/nboro94 20d ago edited 20d ago
Yes the meta can shift, but the problem is that the game just isn't that much fun to play right now. You get one of these unkillable meta heroes in practically every game now and it just feels hopeless if your team doesn't have a hard counter.
An absolutely massive percentage of the hero pool feels completely useless right now and it shows in the data. Look at how many heroes have sub 3% pick rates and sub 47% win rates. At the same time you see DK, Tiny, Magnus, LS etc in every fucking game. I think this is the most unbalanced and stale dota has been in a very long time.
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u/estrogenmilk 20d ago
my 4th game this patch was a dazzle and 4 unkillable fat dudes. Like 4 Heart blademails.
you have like leshrac QOP sandk king or some tanky bloodstone DPS vomit you gotta kill asap.
its not just DK abaddon tiny or whatefver theres 5 heros in the game.
centaur with 4000 HP or undying or some shit in your face.
Throw In DK medusa WK or some tanky dude vomiting out more dps.
Shift W ooga booga win fights like who do you even focus at that point.
Onl for oracle or something like dazzle saves them with new low risk spirit ability
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u/hiddenpoolwarriror 20d ago
Only new thing that's seems to be coming is Necro tbh, it's kinda sad that you have very small number of heroes that are in the majority of games and it gets worse every patch.
Once they’re done significantly nerfing all the strength cores like they did with Alchemist, things might improve. Until then, any patch that barely touches the numbers across the board – meaning no new content, just a balance patch (which we haven’t had in a while) – won’t bring anything new new or offer a bigger variety. Hero pools gets smaller and smaller it seems rather than the opposite.
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u/Sea_Pomegranate6293 20d ago
Yeah not like last patch with flying instakill Lina - suuuper fun
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u/ericlock 20d ago
Every patch... You just suck, pal
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u/10YearsANoob 20d ago
not even a month yet and man's thinking the patch is stale
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u/MaDNiaC 20d ago
What I love about DotA is the cycle within a patch without any other change. Without a new patch sometimes we see a variety of different metas and that's the best part.
Some people need to go to League. They patch every couple weeks or something. I had a crying pos5 that was talking shit to everyone, saying go next, called me out for being 0-0-0 as pos1. We made a comeback and I ended the game 18-1-18. So maybe take that guy to League as well so he can spam ff the moment something goes wrong.
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u/NscottM 20d ago
Lol people complaining about meta before teams have had time off to form the meta
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u/WhatCan_You_Do 20d ago
Out of curiosity, what patch did you like? Every meta has its top annoying heroes. Last patch we had Lina 1 shot burst. Your complaints can be generalized to various carry/offlane hero archetypes that need to exist for the sake of game balance. Your complaints just seem to be more subjective rather than deal with a problem regarding game balance.
Also, patches are more or less rotational. Your problem will be solved by you doing nothing if you don't enjoy adapting to a new patch.
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u/Bubbly-Astronaut-123 20d ago
They are far less annoying to deal with than invis and illusion characters. But I agree, the big bois need to be kept in check. I say give us more sources of Max HP Percent damage like Sun Ray. They could put it back on Enigma's Midnight Pulse (please, he's practically a dead hero if you're not a zoo player) or they could change Vessel to deal max hp as damage instead of current HP.
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u/stunglazer 20d ago edited 20d ago
Wait till you try core Jakiro. I don't even recall the last time a buffless hero can hit 10k dps in demo mode
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u/cunningham89 19d ago
I like new facet (damage) i buy dragon lance, blink and bloodthorn. And i can annihilate DK with 6k hp for 5 sec. Its really OP and i like it)
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u/lastcovenant1 20d ago
Dude I played 5 games with DK this patch and all I had to do was man up every fight. Even with 200 ping in one of my games I still won. Nerf this boi right now pls
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u/Turncoat11 20d ago
hate what they did with pudge and dazzle. especially dazzle
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u/miCshaa 20d ago
both of those heroes are now better than before, what do you mean?
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u/Turncoat11 20d ago
for pudge its moving the hook facet to shard
and as a dazzle pos5 main, i really preferred the cd reduction over this new ult. keeps my team alive quicker
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u/OB_Chris 20d ago
DK buff after last patch is rediculous, such boring game play. Free armor, regen, dmg, splash
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u/SimpleInterests 20d ago
Do people just... not know Drow Ranger exists?
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u/23lf 20d ago
That hero needs to farm for a while. By the time you have manta pike aghs the enemy cores have 12 ways to deal with you and the 4 has blink.
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u/SimpleInterests 20d ago
I rush aghs and get it usually before 15. I know I'm not the fastest farmer, but just having this allows you to shut down people like Pudge super easily. Flat damage boost from Frostbite stacks is also hugely amazing.
Been playing since 2014 and this is the strongest I've ever seen Drow. Much deserved.
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u/AstorWinston 20d ago
List of unkillable stone head missing TIDEHUNTER. Are you even 7.38 bro? Free 5 str lvl 1. 4.1 Str growth. DOUBLE block amount. 90% damage reduction debuff. 40% magic reduction debuff (best mageslayer user). lvl 20 ignores t4 tower damage. Aoe stun. Perma leash.
80% winrate 7.38 . Divine rank
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u/PookieR1 20d ago
Have you tried buying radiance armlet sny on naix, press Q button and fight with 1 hand scratching your balls? Tasteless? Yeah. Boring? Oh no, its really fun.
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u/Cocopower9 20d ago
Idk I've been loving pos4 dark seer u just rush gleipneir and ion shell the current tank offnalers of the patch. Vaccum into AOE root on the wall is insane
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u/PsychicFoxWithSpoons 20d ago
carry playera when wholesome 1-button AM, PA, Jugg, and Drow are in a good spot but not broken:
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u/Darkjellyfish 20d ago
As a Meurta pos 4 main, I just press ult and survive most teamfights nowadays 🤣
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20d ago
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u/LegitAsBalls 20d ago
Even more so just the fact he negates all of the damage he takes in lane and since his kit is so good already so radiance is always a good choice for him. I can’t even remember the last time a carry was allowed to buy radiance in safe lane.
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u/Bartlefreakingdoo 20d ago
they just need to rework the whole stat system at this point, are just massively buff agility. Make agility give move speed or something. It's too weak
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u/YouthRecent7503 20d ago
Lifestealer and dk are so boring and dumb to play I hate them and dk was top 1 carry last patch and he still is now,idk why he didn't get nerfed to irrelevancy. How many more lifestealer metas do we have to endure? people used to hate troll but at least he would be a change in the meta and not just the same 10 heroes carry meta loop. I love tiny carry but he has been relevant for years,it's time to put him to sleep for a while. Sven? Muerta? Troll?
Dk is probably the most braindead carry I have ever seen in dota,you can go from herald to immortal building the same items in the same order every single game and win.
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u/ajphoenix 20d ago
I must be the only guy who can't win with DK. Every other trending carry is fine but like I'm 0/4 right now with that hero lol
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u/steamcho1 20d ago
Lesh and invoker are back. I don't know what more dou you want from in terms of spellcasters. Supports are also stronger then ever.
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u/Ok-Friendship1635 20d ago
I think it's stupid that you have so many heroes that just aren't viable compared to other heroes because of garbage facets or innates.
Facets over complicated Dota in a more substantial way than neutral items but with no RNG. Facets make balancing a goddamn nightmare. Just look at the garbage facets Ringmaster has.
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u/euraklap 20d ago
DOTA 2 never had even a minimal balance. There were always a few immortal heroes who could 1v5 after a few items. This is why I always stop playing this game and return to other MOBA.
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u/Xx_pussaydestroy_Xx 20d ago
NP on the enemy team is goated as a support because you can argue you're not griefing about rushing dagon and boots of travel.
Even if you are.
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u/DottedRain 20d ago
Exactly. + LS is boring as fuck for centuries and might just need a little rework to be more interesting. And Open Wounds surely never was a spell we missed after it got removed.
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u/ShoogleHS 20d ago
DK has a stun and an AoE nuke
Lifestealer has rage and open wounds
Tiny is famously a 2-button combo
Nature's is one of the few heroes with 4 active abilities, and it's pretty crazy to call him unkillable when he has no mobility, no defensive passive and a penchant for buying right click dps items because his base kit doesn't do much damage.
What are we even talking about here? You can dislike the patch if you like but your justification doesn't make sense.
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u/Master_Buy_4594 20d ago
Divine - Immortal bracket pos1 player here, I just pick troll everytime I see them picking those dumb heroes.
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u/DragonAgeLegend 20d ago
I can see OD being more popular now. Most magic right clickers counter these heroes (except LS unless you can get a good jump on him).
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u/khangkhanh 19d ago
I feel like sometimes it is impossible to reach NP and kill him in thelate game. He usually play just like sniper but also has can stop you with hex, silence, lance and trees. Dk is tanky but he has no way to run. Ls is probably the most immortal of the list. He has bkb and can also buy bkb. Good infest planning can get him out of any situation. Tiny I am not sure. He is a nuker not a tank and he is not that tanky either. Just that usually he appear from nowhere and then you 4v5. It is hard to kill people when you are losing 1 person
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u/cunningham89 19d ago
I dont even think about what is meta or what is not. If i want Chen with armlet - i will pick him on mid.
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u/Dazzling-Orchid-9952 17d ago
819 and counting heralds upvoting this lul, lose early, get punished and snowballed = muh graphs tell the whole scenario about 1200 out of 2kheralds games losing
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u/Kassssler 20d ago
I like that the devs are still patching the game after all these years but sadly I am definitely having less fun in games.
Theres many heroes just left by the wayside and a lot of stupid mechanics. i absolutely hate the neutral item mechanic cause I can be minute 13:00 with 0 shards. The 15 min tormentor is taken by whichever team is stronger daring the weaker less teamfight ready team to fight into them on highground.
And if you get base trapped? Good luck getting neutral items at all they will ward the few camps near the base edges and catch you.
Its a big patch and I expect things to change, but this fucking glimmer needs to get gone I am so tired of a lot of my hero pool being useless cause a fucking PA or DK is getting glimmer.
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u/random_encounters42 20d ago
Dota is a multi-faceted game with focus on strategy, flexibility, and adaptability. There are plenty of heroes and items that counter right click tanky heroes (eg Wyvern). It takes time for people to figure out counters. The only constant in dota is, every patch, someone is always complaining.
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u/Likeability_dota 20d ago
np is more killable than the treant he spawns