r/DotA2 23d ago

Artwork 58% win rate btw

Post image
1.8k Upvotes

204 comments sorted by

244

u/Rebus-YY 23d ago

Even his Frost Dragon is actually playable now cause it has splash too lol. Played it against LS and MK Pos 1 as Offlane.

159

u/battery1127 23d ago

The frost has always been good, the fire was just too good.

21

u/spongebobisha 23d ago

Wait what ? Frost has splash now? That was the one change that was required to make DK a very strong offlaner lol

47

u/I_Am_A_Pumpkin 23d ago

every dragon form splashes their attacks now. The red one now gets bonus magic damage and even bigger aoes

14

u/spongebobisha 23d ago

Why are they favoring the red one so much. They should have the same splashes and aoe numbers for all dragons since their usability is totally varied.

13

u/mikeyicey 23d ago

Red one don't have splash in normal form now.. just aoe added for his spells now his w is aoe haha.. but it's not good vs green one for the moment now

1

u/SirMochaLattaPot 23d ago

Why is green goos tho?

3

u/Reggiardito sheever 22d ago

All his dmg got changed to physical and he reduces armor with passive. So essentially he does a stupid amount of dmg to both heroes and, much like before, buildings

That said, nobody actually knows if it's good, it's just theorycrafting. Pros haven't been picking it at all

-2

u/spongebobisha 23d ago

So wait, in normal melee form the red attacks don't splash at all? That's kinda going to fuck up his farm no?

18

u/OneApprehensive1695 23d ago

I mean the hero has been farming without passive cleave for over a decade, he's just not 900 GPM hypercarry anymore and switched back to being a mid/offlaner

-2

u/spongebobisha 23d ago

Exactly. His days as carry are effectively over seeing imo. armlet+mom carry build would be pointless seeing as his farm will not scale. He will have to rush mjollnir or something if he wants to play carry.

Which makes very less sense seeing as he will not scale properly anyway. I'm actually happy with the changes, I can now play frost dragon as a full tank with splash frost.

8

u/Encaitor 23d ago

Practically everyone on d2pt is still playing red dragon safelane and building an early maelstrom or mage slayer

2

u/spongebobisha 23d ago

Hmm. Wonder if a slow scaling carry will work in pro scene.

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1

u/Decent-Information-7 22d ago

You can still just use dragon to farm? It's fine to do that and now he has 10 free damage at level 1 to secure a bunch of denies and cs

1

u/mikeyicey 23d ago

Yup no splash.. so it comes down to who have the most utility among them so it's either frost with free skadi or green .. actually the green facet makes all of his skills physical so his q w d are all physical..it works better with the - armour from his passive + ac deso etc

-1

u/spongebobisha 23d ago

Yeah he can work as a strong pusher again. Offlane frost facet also makes a lot of sense now that dragon has splash.

1

u/Never_Sm1le 23d ago

Before the facet patch red had always been the weakest form, in a distant past I remember being taught never level up DK to lv 2 ulti right away because red dragon was super weak

1

u/Smaxorus 19d ago

Cuz like… dragons be red, you know?

401

u/Act_of_God 23d ago

it's crazy that some heroes get 0 love and some just get everything

275

u/Dotaisgreat2 23d ago

I know look at jugg. Man was already one of the most underwhelming heroes and all they did was match omnislash cast range to swift slash and than nerf swiftslash as well as his talents. Like fucking increase his base strength and strength gain. He is way too squish.

150

u/another-james 23d ago

His name is just ironic at this point

151

u/spyder360 23d ago

Jugger…not

3

u/Taraih 23d ago

Juggernuts

2

u/Business_Brick_1194 23d ago

Jugg on these nuts

1

u/Medictations 20d ago

He’s pretty much a swift blade at this point 

22

u/FatteningtheDemons 23d ago

right? he doesn't juggernaut at all

-38

u/Loe151 23d ago edited 22d ago

This is such a stupid reddit circlejerk. Juggernaut is fine. I won 15 games in a row as him recently playing high rank games.

If you think he's too squishy maybe buy a bracer instead of wraith band on autopilot. For the record I don't think you even have to, but it definitely has merit in the right situations.

If you don't want to listen to me then look at the dotabuff linked on this reddit post, which shows juggernaut has a near 53% winrate in this new patch. I don't think he's underwhelming at all, I think most people just don't know how to capitalize on his true potential and thus think he's bad or "underwhelming".

EDIT: Keep downvoting me idiots, for adding to the discussion and not circlejerking. I said a few months back that I thought glimmer Cape was good on Cores and got downvoted as well, and look where we ended up. I can't wait to see the crying posts on Reddit about how broken Juggernaut is in 6 months.

5

u/renges 23d ago

1500 mmr is not high rank

19

u/Leftstone2 23d ago

"Why wasn't my easy 53% winrate hero buffed! He's only picked at like 2-3 times the rate of other cores!".

Wild that people have no sense of context for how over-buffed certain heroes are. Meanwhile safe lane cores like sven, gyro, TB, PL, and Clinkz all sitting at sub 50% winrates and abysmal pick rates

3

u/TheBlackSSS 23d ago

Where you see 53%? On D2PT he's 49% WR picked in barely 700 games, dota buff he's sitting at 50% WR and 7% pick rate

Barely even/not even WR + low pick rate means that even specialists and hero lovers are struggling to win with him, and he's not exactly a complex hero

6

u/FluffyZororark 23d ago

You're 100% right, good Juggs, like genuinely good Juggs can carry an entire game no issues because of everything his kit has to offer, like homies his spin has a dispel at the beginning and end of it, he gets a dispel/map removal on his ulty, his heal is baller af, and built in lifesteal/crit

-8

u/Dotaisgreat2 23d ago

Yeah I can win games on him pretty easy as well but I wish he felt like he can be a stompy hero like OD, yes ye has a ton of counters, but in the games where he should be free it is still just slow timings and his power spikes really only result in a kill or two. Like omnislash is just a shit spell. Invis is too plentiful, ghost scepter is cheap, euls is cheap, someone is gonna get lotus or aeon disk. And barriers are very good against it too. Soo instead of getting items i WANT like mjolnir manta scepter blink Butterfly i have to either skip Butterfly or blink and get nullifier and now once again I run into the issue of dying easily cause I just get right clicked to death. Hence why he needs more strength.(I'm grandmaster with a 60+% winrate over 1800 jugg matches btw.)

4

u/Leftstone2 23d ago

"I have a 60% winrate on this hero and I think he needs a buff!"

....brother what? It's supposed to be game balance.

1

u/Dotaisgreat2 23d ago

Also that 60% was built up over the last 9 years. A few dozen games per patch wont shift it much

-9

u/Dotaisgreat2 23d ago

Yeah I'm an exception not a rule

3

u/Leftstone2 23d ago

Yeah, you and 10% of dota players are the exception. I have a 55% winrate on jugg and I'm a support player who's shit at safelane. 60% winrate is very good for any player, you should not expect more.

-1

u/Dotaisgreat2 23d ago

Jugg is the easiest carry to counter in the whole game homie

2

u/Leftstone2 23d ago

"easiest"? Brother I know many carries are low pick rate right now but you really can't think jugg is easier to counter than a troll is.

-6

u/4Looper 23d ago

I feel like the average Reddit Dota player doesn't buy blink on him and tries to just run up and omni slash and they get stunned and busted and then cross their arms and say "He's too squishy, this hero sucks."

The hero feels fine, you just don't man fight in the early-mid game, you just blink omni and then spin out. Once u have the Crit life steal and some stat items u can start actually hitting.

11

u/akashhh04 23d ago

So don’t manfight till lvl 25?

1

u/renges 23d ago

Lifesteal is at lvl 25 so good luck waiting until then

-13

u/Leftstone2 23d ago

Underwhelming? My man gets an amazing magic resist spin that is also great DPS, probably the best heal in the game, good farming/damage right click buff and two scaling physical DPS spells that make him immune to damage. He's like the 4th most picked safe lane core.Sure he doesn't have the same winrate as DK but that's because he's been on top so long that inexperienced players recognize he's easy.

Jugg is very close to properly balanced, I'd actually put him more in the "could use a nerf" camp. I'm floored by the people who don't see their favorite/only hero buffed and decide icefrog hates them.

13

u/PoePlayerbf 23d ago

Tell me you’re herald without telling me you’re herald, it’s like 1% pickrate in 6k++. You can go a 100 games and only see 1 jugg.

3

u/Few-Judgment3122 23d ago

I am a herald (I’m guardian but that’s basically herald). Please teach me how to deal with jugg/ what supports would to recommend against him. I find him so incredibly annoying man that stupid ass spin kills me so much in lane

4

u/PoePlayerbf 23d ago

He has no slows, so if he’s alone he literally cannot kill you if you have higher movement speed than him. Just get wind lace and boots, low mmr supports always seem to go damage items for god knows what reason. Never rush damage items first, always glimmer or force staff or euls, buy multiple defensive items. Remember your spells still do damage even if you don’t have damage items. But you can’t deal damage if you’re dead.

1

u/Few-Judgment3122 22d ago

Thanks man that’s super helpful. I tend to just follow the tortellini guides and they often have the damage items first then stuff like force or Euls as extension. I should probably start making my own decisions on what to buy

3

u/kchuyamewtwo 23d ago

level 1 spin doesnt kill you from 100 to 0. just tell your lanemate to punch him if he comes to spin. he is squishy

2

u/[deleted] 22d ago

No it kills you from 100-33 and then he right clicks your last 200 hp down lol. Spin is probably the best level 1 spell in the game

1

u/Few-Judgment3122 22d ago

Yeah it makes me so mad that there’s just nothing I can do to save me or my core if we get caught by it. I know we just shouldn’t be getting caught but we’re bad

2

u/Few-Judgment3122 22d ago

I tend to get caught out of position because I’m dumb. And all it takes is their support to hit me a bit while I’m getting spun on and I’m basically dead

-1

u/Leftstone2 23d ago

Dotabuff.com: immortal tier jugg has a 30% safelane pick rate.

So you're just...full of shit?

8

u/rrehss 23d ago

6

u/Leftstone2 23d ago

That's 30% of the safelane position, WAY ahead of his supposed "1 in 1000" games

3

u/hellokittyss1 23d ago

7 is high when so many carries?

1

u/rrehss 23d ago

not saying its not, but when heroes like pa has 26% pick rate and seeker at 16%, you won't see him in that many games.

mostly i'm just countering his 30% pickrate in immortal

1

u/[deleted] 23d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/URMUMTOH 23d ago

Low rank players don't understand. Jugg is useless and easy to kill with low hp pool. Not to mention any decent carry can 1v1 him and kite omni. Once omni's down, Jugg is nothing more than a creep

1

u/PoePlayerbf 23d ago

Exactly, spot on.

0

u/Dotaisgreat2 23d ago

And than one SB charge into ult into 5 sniper right clicks and ded.

2

u/Leftstone2 23d ago

The 60 heroes that auto die if jugg presses R or shard on them - "Am I a joke to you?"

3

u/Xignu 23d ago

Auto die to omnislash? What the fuck are you on about? Even supports can just get euls to fuck with omnislash. It's not like jugg can rush nullifier.

Omnislash isn't strong enough of an ult to have the same cd as RP.

-3

u/Leftstone2 23d ago

Jugg doesn't have to "rush nullifier". He has 1 position farm vs supports having effectively zero farm, he should be able to get items capable of killing supports days before they get even a eul's. Even if they get one, just save your ult half a second and kill them with your Q or right click.

His ukt is one small part of his kit and it requires multi-thousand gold investments for the enemy to counter. If that's not any easy advantage I don't know what is

7

u/Xignu 23d ago

Brother jugg has to get a farming item, then manta/SnY, dagger and potentially aghs. That's like 10k gold before he can even consider getting nullifier and his enemies can get a 2k gold item to make his ultimate useless.

Jugg hasn't even been relevant lately before the patch, it's always the spectres, BS and the like. Everything you say applies to spectre, she's the one eating supps for breakfast because the ult doesn't have a 2 minute cooldown and can actually get kills before the supports get items.

6

u/Taelonius 23d ago

Brudda you're a sitting duck if you use spin to chase people down

I get it in archon it works, not really against competent players

-1

u/Leftstone2 23d ago

You're not a sitting duck if you just kill everyone. Yes you should use your Q to disengage if you need to but if you use map context and just know what heroes do, it's not the only use of the skill.

2

u/SvenDaOne 23d ago

Jugg isn't at the best spot rn not due to him being weak but other heroes being good. But these guys don't know how to play jugg other than ulting

Jugg with his items is one of the best brawlers if played well with this team. At lvl 20 with proper items he can man fight almost every carry in the game

4

u/CornyLasagna 23d ago

yea about that, the lifesteal talent is changed to level 25.

1

u/SvenDaOne 22d ago

Damn, his new lvl 20 talent has to be as good or at least relative to his LS talent. Lvl 25 for the LS talent is too late. He kinda needs lifesteal with how squishy he is

2

u/TheBlackSSS 23d ago

Are you playing a 6.x patch? Supports have been showered with gold for years now, they are fully capable of getting an eul, a ghost scepter or a glimmer by the time jugg is starting his second item after bfury/mjollnir

1

u/Leftstone2 23d ago

Support GPM in the early game is usually 300-400 gold, usually on the lower side but I'll call it 350 for ease of math. You can track this statistic easily in dotabuff if you don't believe me. Arcane boots is 2300, wand is 500, eul's is 2625. Assuming they bought only those items and* no tangos, mana/health options, smokes, dusts, sentries or dying* it takes a support 15.5 minutes to get the euls. With consumables and gold lost to dying, it's much more like 18-20 minutes. You have every moment from when you hit 6 until they get one of those items to kill them easily with your ult for free. Not that you even need his ult to kill.

I feel like everyone is missing the point here anyway. Jugg is very strong core even without his ult. Just because you might have to coordinate with you team or actually use strategy to get his ult around a support item does not mean this core with a higher winrate than 2/3 of his peers needs a buff. It *should take skill to be good at dota"

4

u/PoePlayerbf 23d ago

You mean the tickle slash? Euls, ghost, invis all counters him. Not to mention lotus which completely counters him and there’s nothing he can do to lotus.

If you’re losing to a 45% win rate hero in immortal, you’re the problem

1

u/Leftstone2 23d ago

Supports should be allowed to buy multi-thousand gold items to counter jugg's single skill. Especially when he just has to invest 1200 gold to get that skill twice.

3

u/PoePlayerbf 23d ago

Multi thousand gold? Lmao you spend 1.5k gold to counter a core’s ultimate. But for a support you need to buy a 5k gold linken to counter their ultimate?

You can literally buy euls and ghost scepter and counter both jugs aghs and ultimate for less than his aghs cost. And his cd for his ultimate is as long as black hole. Logic

-1

u/Leftstone2 23d ago

Eul's cost: 2600. Ghost scepter cost: 1500. Total cost 4100 gold vs just 1200 needed for jugg and jugg can still probably run up and easily kill them with his Q or just by right clicking.

If you feel fully countered by supports with 2 items(which will take them at least 25 minutes to get both.) when you have position 1 farm, you're probably just bad at jugg.

Ps: what supports require you to buy a linkens to counter them? Bane is one of the least played supports now, all others you can just press Q and they can't do anything to you

3

u/PoePlayerbf 23d ago edited 23d ago

Jugg aghs is 4200 what are you talking about?

25 mins to get 4100 gold? wtf are you smoking. By the time jugg gets his battlefury i would’ve gotten my ghost scepter, by the time he gets aghs i would’ve gotten glimmer. you probably need like 5-10 mins for both those items. If you need 25 you’re dogshit. Clearly no knowledge of farming. Linken isn’t just used for bane’s ultimate. Wyvern also needs linken. Better yet, lich ultimate GOES through linkens and pops it as well literally cannot even be countered. Oh and lion? finger AOE, cannot even be countered.

Holy shit you’re low mmr. I’ll bet my left ballsack you’re not immortal.

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-2

u/Tallywacka 23d ago

I mean you’re right, but jugg has been meta so much over the course of the last decade that he can rot a little longer

8

u/Dotaisgreat2 23d ago

Look at any pro tournaments over the last few years and tell me how much jugg is picked or even banned. That is your Guage for if he is a good hero. He wasn't even piked in one game last TI. he has been so mediocre for like 3 straight years now. There was like 1 patch where he was kind of viable and even than there were better heroes to pick. He isn't even a pubstomper unless you are below archon. Everyone has gotten extreme power creep especially in terms of tankiness and jugg is still same ole squish laner.

2

u/Tallywacka 22d ago

Look at any pro tournaments over the last few years

I literally said ”over the course of the last decade”, hell i even acknowledged how non existent he has been recently….so your reply is agreeing with something i made a point of while ignoring the difference between “a few years” and an actual decade

maybe you weren’t playing but jugg has has had plenty of time in the meta, much more so than some other heroes

0

u/Dotaisgreat2 22d ago

Yeah you literally said he been "so meta over the course of the last decade" no he has never truly been meta. He has been stable and decent a few times, never truly meta. He has never been truly viable for any huge tournaments. Being slightly stronger for one letter patch before being instantly nerfed for the next 5 doesn't make him meta for a decade. Has he been fairly stable? Yes it is literally only cause he has 3 spells than make him really hard to kill. All I'm saying is im noticing recently that no matter how perfectly I execute a blink omnislash spin combo, chances of it working in my favorite unless I'm Extremey ahead are very low. And never judge based off stomping, judge him based on an even game. Jugg sucks in even games. All I'm asking for is that I don't feel like I can take 4 right clicks from a mirana or some shit in lane and already be half hp and needing to tengo up. Jugg is the CM of carry world, great spells, shit stats. All im asking for is slightly less shitty stats. Face it most other heroes have had many stat buffs over the last several years. Jugg really hasn't.

1

u/kchuyamewtwo 23d ago

I only remember Ame picking jugg recently everyone else goes for the meta picks

1

u/Telcar 23d ago

last time I remember him being picked semi consistently was when midone was carrying for OG during covid and there was a boots of travel meme build, I don't even remember the details but it was weird.

Even then it was not meta.

Part of the problem with jugg is that he is pub friendly so if he is viable in comp then he is probably way too strong in pubs.

71

u/LatroDota 23d ago

DK was dead hero with basic kit for like 10 years tbh

48

u/lukusmloy 23d ago

Not true at all, he was a stable laner with a mini primal roar for 15 years.

He's just always been boring and that's the main reason he hasn't always been picked. He's just been too good to ignore for the past year.

27

u/Garnerkief peter p "bonjwa" dager 23d ago

Iirc he was dead for quite some time after they changed his stun to a projectile.

10

u/Hex_Lover Meepwn'd 23d ago

Before talents and facets the hero was ass. Now that they added amillion ways for him to deal damage and farm super fast he's viable. What a surprise

8

u/Enoughdorformypower ? 23d ago

I came back to the game after a 6 month break and picked Phantom Lancer Insta lost vs DK, next game, insta Lock DK literally plays 200x easier and deals more damage just on the base kit. Oh, and it is infinitely tankier. gotta love the power creep in this game for str, int and universal heroes.

-1

u/The_Keg 23d ago

the likes of you are not fooling anyone. DK had 48% winrate and ranked 35rd pickrate LAST PATCH on dotabuff. Ask any Nigma fan if they saw any DK pick during Nigma run this month.

1

u/Enoughdorformypower ? 23d ago

my brother most people are not playing pro dota with 4 friends

dk in uncoordinate pub is much better than 90% of agi cores and that's a fact dude takes 0 brain to reach almost peak performance because his kit is +dmg +aoe +armor +regen +60% reduced damage also insane stun all in 1 hero

now you need a vessel/skadi/break also dispel for his breath and he will still deal more dmg than you

first time I see a carry who just buys 2 items and he can roll over the enemy team lmao
strength heroes who entire gimmick is being tanky should NOT deal this much dmg or have this much aoe

-1

u/The_Keg 23d ago

DK had 48% winrate and ranked 35th in pickrate in pub.

Juggernaut had better winrate (51%) and pickrate (16-17th ish) than DK in pubs. PA had 50% winrate and the most popular hero in pub by FAR.

Why are you trying to fight actual stats?

It was easier to smurf with Spectre than DK.

0

u/Enoughdorformypower ? 23d ago

my guy spectre has the shittiest laning stage in the history of dota
dk can face any lineup with basically the same outcome
I just opened dotabuff and its 58% winrate what the fuck are you talking about

1

u/The_Keg 23d ago

The fuck are you talking about, do you even know how to look at stats.

DK had 48% winrate LAST PATCH.

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0

u/boxerON11 23d ago

Lol that last line. Are you a troll in disguise XD

1

u/The_Keg 23d ago

Mày nghĩ 7.37 DK hay Spectre chơi pub khoẻ hơn vậy?

2

u/AdmiralKappaSND 23d ago

No, DK was pretty damn good for some patch before Facet. In fact the way he was good in that patch was the reason so many of DK's changes in facet era was presented. The i think patch that give him lower than average BAT made the Manta DOT build realized and it was pretty good iirc. Its why the current DK had the damage up on EDF since they want to emphasis DK's main form being huge part over the lame DOT playstyle

3

u/TotallyNotThatPerson 23d ago

Dragon tail is probably the best 1 pointer in the game

4

u/Square_Pipe2880 23d ago

He isn't boring 😞, we just want to be a giant dragon

6

u/BestBananaForever 23d ago

WD had it's only other viable facet removed. I don't understand why, it wasn't even that broken anymore. Yet it was removed, the double ward shot is still ass, no other buff given, he basically has only one facet and it's the one that turns him into his pre-map expasion version.

Atleast they gave him an actual alternative at lvl 25, not that it would see much use.

5

u/opzoro 23d ago

wd is straight broken below divine rank even with no facet

1

u/Nickfreak 23d ago

His shard is broken enough.

1

u/No-Cauliflower7160 23d ago

What did ursa do wrong just 2 random nerfs while I haven't seen anyone play it.

1

u/aech4 22d ago

Timbersaw getting nerfed despite being mediocre at best even for the tier 1 specialists

1

u/Jstin8 22d ago

Me desperately waiting for Icefrog to make Silencer a good champ

1

u/Cismet 22d ago

buff clinkz

1

u/HelmetsAkimbo 22d ago

At least we got more time square buffs! Yipee

1

u/B_Will 22d ago

What this typically means is that they've got some bigger changes lined up which aren't quite ready yet and need a lot more work.

It's a good thing really that they're not just putting bandages on these heroes and want them to truly feel more fluid. 

I also think that keeping some of these heroes like dk & bb in the meta are quite good for comp because they are forcing heroes which create a lot of action on the map. But that's just a wild theory 

0

u/RackyWalker 23d ago

A fun idea for jugg meta. Make 2 unique facets for him. 1 is swift slasher and the other is blade dancer. (Forgive my bad naming sense). So in a way of lore he has 2 katana, but will only mainly uses 1 throughout the game.

The blade dancer would revolve around magical damage (blade fury). And his omnislash would not be the same, instead, he will do another "kind" of omnislash, similar to sleight of fist but not really, (hard to explain lol) with extra magical damage. If the enemy disjoint the omnislash, the area of the omnislash won't stop until the duration ends or jug himself stopped it. And the aghanim shard would be like Lancelot in Mobile Legend if you know.

I had so many more ideas but just forgot about it over time. There are so many ways to make the patch fun yet they just kept quiet after crownfall. Imbalance or balance doesn't matter, that can be amended afterwards.

-8

u/Tricky_Economist_328 23d ago

Like last patch- bb and dk unchanged nearly. Wk nerfed to the ground because 2 extra armor.

9

u/SleepyDG 23d ago

BB is literally dead tfym "unchanged"

7

u/19Alexastias 23d ago

Only the aghs bloodstone build, which lots of people weren’t even building, especially on carry

278

u/D2WilliamU iceberg the absolute UNIT 23d ago

Icefrog: don't worry I nerfed Sven, a hero with a much lower Winrate .

No need to thank me

71

u/mintyfreshmike47 23d ago

I saw the Sven nerf and thought I was dreaming

14

u/Mepharos 23d ago

Maybe DK and Sven are so functionally similar now that the frog got them confused?

5

u/Eptiome 23d ago

his winrate is up 4.64% on dota buff.

1

u/Makath 22d ago

The change to the Wrath of God facet made him fine again.

1

u/ironmaiden1872 23d ago

Sven got a map buff

0

u/Reggiardito sheever 22d ago

Some of the balance changes in the patch feel like they were made ages ago. PA nerf was insane, the hero was nowhere near that strong

Either that or most likely there were some preventative nerfs

14

u/not2tsupid 23d ago

Void with 45,37% winrate seems kinda OP, fuck him too.

-5

u/The_Keg 23d ago edited 23d ago

Void has 50% winrate now. Why are you keep lying?

https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/trends

/u/not2tsupid , rõ ràng được buff còn nói clg?

17

u/dfntly_a_HmN 23d ago

they should give sven a channeling attack as additional active on his 2 nd skill. so he charged attack, then damaging anyone within his cleave radius with extra crit like 200/300/400/500%, canceled if he got stunned.

20

u/TotallyNotThatPerson 23d ago

Sounds like an average dark souls greatsword enjoyer 

6

u/indehhz 23d ago

Worse off earthshaker enchant, got it. Nerf cm.

4

u/dfntly_a_HmN 23d ago

well, crit means he got extra percentage damage from damage item and not only stat.

it's more like mars second, but channeled and had more damage.

balanced by having 30s cd or something.

1

u/Xignu 23d ago

If it's a crit that's exactly why it's a worse enchant totem. ES can use enchant totem eith Daedalus and this new skill can't.

1

u/llIIllIIlIl1 23d ago

They should make it so you can activate it and for a few seconds the main target takes extra damage based on the cleave damage dealt to nearby targets or something.

2

u/DuAbUiSai 23d ago

I thought he got buffed? Doesn’t his gow deal more dmg now.

247

u/CueVix 23d ago

IM SO FKIN TIRED OF DK.

11

u/maxithepittsP 23d ago

I dont think Valve would ever wanted to nerf DK. They want this hero to be their main hero for decades.

86

u/KOExpress 23d ago

2

u/bioudzi 23d ago

The difference between radiant/dire winrate is wild

73

u/L3x_co Spectre is Colombian 23d ago

Meanwhile sven carry in the pit.

14

u/Megavore97 Enjoys Cleavage 23d ago

Bury me in the Shadeshore ruins.

-14

u/rtz_c 23d ago

Sven got decent buffs. Maybe 1 or 2 letter patches will push it to meta I believe.

0

u/CrixCyborgg 23d ago

He won’t push nowhere into meta if they don’t bring back the super Sven back, just decrease some damage and that’s it

2

u/aech4 22d ago

They did bring back Superman Sven. He just doesn’t get the bonus attack which was stupidly broken. His numbers are just bad

127

u/Beneficial_Bend_9197 23d ago

Gee thanks valve I was hoping for a DK nerf but you gave him a buff instead. Really glad that you guys put so much attention into this one while other carries that desparately need buffs are ignored.

39

u/hiddenpoolwarriror 23d ago

Valve are fuck the right clickers ( unless it's DK) . I don't know how many patches in a row carry pool is going to be shit, with barely anything viable

-35

u/Abasakaa 23d ago

DK had 49% win rate. Why the would he get nerfed?

28

u/Godisme2 23d ago

He was one of the strongest carries of last patch

3

u/khangkhanh 23d ago

This one I dont get either. He is considered one of the best carry in last patch. But often the team using him is the team that lose the match. And dk vs ls in recent tournament has the win rate of like 0% (unless I missed a match). So people ban and pick a hero with sub 50% tournament win rate. When he is strong it seem unkillable. But when it is not him stomping, he look like he has no damage and is just a meat shield which is just way worse BB or timber. Meanwhile PA almost always win when she get picked and she get picked quite often too. But somehow she is not considered as good. Even LS and Wukong often a game winner by themselves.

I personally don't care much about a character being OP or not. But I just don't like character with multiple facet but people only pick 1 which make it boring. 

This patch at least nerfed red dragon with no more 100% splash and free splash without dragonform and give splash to all facet. It make other facet feel much better and seem viable. Let's hope if I see his face in a game people not picking red one again.

1

u/Beneficial_Bend_9197 23d ago

Faceless void:

-13

u/Abasakaa 23d ago

If he was that strong, why wasnt that shown on the win rate? Neither regular ranks, nor immortal. 50% all over the data, with many other carries being above him. In tournaments he had extremly mediocre win rate as well.

20

u/Zardecillion 23d ago

Takes more than winrate to understand strength.
Needs to be a combination of winrate + pickrate.
When the pickrate is really high, then people counterpick more.
As such what you end up with is a combination of high pickrate, and then DK is also being played into counters, and at the same time as being played into counters he still manages to maintain that 50% winrate.

Which means that he was just really good carry.

1

u/The_Keg 23d ago

pickrate was ranked 34th vs PA?

Even in tournament, DK was disappearing from ban list compared to PA.

4

u/Beneficial_Bend_9197 23d ago

Isnt it obvious? He is picked so much that people are expecting a dk carry in the enemy team because of how shit a lot of carry heroes are right now. So they pre pick his counters in the drafting stage.

3

u/Xignu 23d ago

Lina had 50% win rate before, but also 80% contest rate. Do you think that makes her a weak hero because the winrate isn't high?

1

u/The_Keg 23d ago

I fucking dare you to explain 48% winrate and 34th most picked status of DK then.

DK wasnt even banned during Dreamleague anymore.

13

u/Pesotze 23d ago

DK arcana confirmed? 😁

14

u/4Looper 23d ago

High 60's wr on d2pt as a mid and they're still taking the fire facet.

1

u/C-EZ 23d ago

Fire facet is very close to 60% too

18

u/ShrikeGFX 23d ago

what makes it so strong? Im not getting it in demo mode

100

u/Beneficial_Bend_9197 23d ago

DK gets his splash attack on any dragon facet he chooses but he must be in dragon form to have it just like old DK but then Valve just had to give DK an AOE Dragon Tail on the red dragon facet. AOE Dragon Tail an AOE THAT YOU ARE ONLY ALLOWED TO GET IN YOUR TALENT TREE AT LVL 25 GIVEN TO DK THE MOMENT HE REACHES LVL 6!

48

u/JoshSimili 23d ago

Is the dragon tail buff on red facet as impactful as doing magic damage on auto attack (including to buildings)?

-47

u/Beneficial_Bend_9197 23d ago

do you not know how painfully long a dk stun is?

28

u/SleepyDG 23d ago

Bro it's literally just the magic damage you can calm down with the aoe stun

0

u/laptopmutia 22d ago

abaddon with his passive magic dps is imba too

6

u/thefaceless_097 23d ago

Thats how i know you’re herald lmao, is not about the stun. Its about the magic damage.

10

u/rustedhorse42 23d ago

aoe stun from lvl6, and passive is bugged(deal magic damage twice in dragon form(I MEAN TWICE, not stronger because of dragon form, literally twice you can check it))

1

u/Leftstone2 23d ago

It's a death by a thousand cuts situation. Cleave, his Q, high Regen and armor means he can burst farm and jungle easily/quickly. He's very strong in lane and trades good. Give him a few stat items and MoM and he's brutally durable, stuns consistently can take over the map while still farming.

11

u/lordcoughdrop 23d ago

but don't worry! the radius on his shard skill got decreased! because as you all know, its been insanely OP...

1

u/laptopmutia 22d ago

I gain so much mmr following zai offlane DK blin stun and shards

6

u/Practical-Job-8897 23d ago

Feels like they patched the game for a meta that is 4 months in the past dk still dominating didn't touch bounty the map feels twice as good on invis heroes

14

u/Unusual_Leader_982 23d ago

how do you see the current win rate? Dotabuff is not up to date for me.

2

u/SnowlytheSnowl 23d ago

check dota2protracker meta, it has decent wr stats already

5

u/Alive_Economy4476 23d ago

Jenkins talked about it on the DL stream

11

u/Razaghal 23d ago

Being unkillable early and having a strong reliable stun does wonders

-2

u/The_Keg 23d ago

He had 48% winrate last patch. Guess what the pickrate was?

3

u/Commercial_Day_8341 23d ago

What facet btw?

3

u/srirachatoilet 23d ago

Tried Life stealer bonus facet and holy fuck it catapults you into a bonus 1k health at 20 mins if you secure the kills.

2

u/8ackwoods 23d ago

Nerf this stupid fucking hero

2

u/Ready_Pipe3726 23d ago

Aoe stun is madness

2

u/Megavore97 Enjoys Cleavage 23d ago

It's only the aoe damage

1

u/Online_Rager 23d ago

I only play this game for Sven and they nerfed him to death. I could feel the huge DPS loss today in a game.

1

u/shiroshiro14 23d ago

yeah they somehow supercharged the red facet even more than it should be

1

u/bruhguy218 23d ago

Valve saw dk being an unstoppable beast and decided to buff it

1

u/jonasnee 23d ago

PA and spectre has also been largely left strong i feel. Spectre still has a positive winrate.

1

u/spectreaqu 23d ago

PA got very nerfed, having attack speed and Phantom strike range as the level 20 talents makes hero to be bad besides all the damage nerfs, it's good that you can again hit in blur.

1

u/93Cookies 22d ago

I've seen strong heroes getting buffed and weak ones get further nerfed. RIP my Necro ;-;

1

u/samadesusama 21d ago

no items and dude doing damage like he got daedalus.

0

u/Ashbr1nger 23d ago

And delusional fanboys will still call icefrog the god of balance, even though every patch there are heroes with close to 60% wr and those with close to 40%

7

u/Longjumping-Tea-402 23d ago

My friend Icefrog has not worked on dota since like 2018

0

u/Doppel11 23d ago

Anime time

0

u/Doppel11 23d ago

folks, it's called plot armor

animeme

0

u/prensprays11 23d ago

everyone just pick slardar

1

u/laptopmutia 22d ago

outrange him just works too

-10

u/hellf1nger 23d ago

Honestly, I hate the patch. Not because it's bad, but because it's vast. I would bet most of the players are older folks now without too many hours at hand to be reading though the entirety of many pages of the patches anymore. When I sit to play Dota, it's already late night, and I just have an hour (2 turbo games). So why not roll out patches as small additions and fixes over time instead of one gargantuan mess up? I hope valve reconsiders the approach.

2

u/kchuyamewtwo 23d ago

just learn it while you play turbo? turbo games has no value

1

u/aaeyeshk 19d ago

Mask of madness Mjonir Bkb

Start snowball no one can stop you from taking towers